Overland Content Feedback Thread

disky · January 2

Nilandia wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.”

I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun.

Counterpoint: For some players, the fun is in putting together a build that is most effective. It is like solving a puzzle, and seeing higher damage numbers is satisfying to a lot of them. For other players (myself included), the fun is the challenge itself, seeing how far you can push yourself and still defeat the boss.

Just because we like harder content or are running more optimal builds, doesn't mean we're not having fun.

Yeah, exactly this. You should be able to find fun in a game while utilizing every tool that the game provides to you, and that includes challenge. Builds are a big part of what people who like challenging content find enjoyable about the game, and telling them that they should deliberately hobble themselves in order to have fun is misunderstanding the perspective entirely.

Nilandia · January 2

Deserrick wrote: »

Nilandia wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.”

I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun.

Counterpoint: For some players, the fun is in putting together a build that is most effective. It is like solving a puzzle, and seeing higher damage numbers is satisfying to a lot of them. For other players (myself included), the fun is the challenge itself, seeing how far you can push yourself and still defeat the boss.

Just because we like harder content or are running more optimal builds, doesn't mean we're not having fun.

That’s not a counter to my point, it’s a sidestep of my point.

Let’s say there is a game with 10 classes, and one of those 10 has by far the best numbers and can do the hardest content, while the other 9 lag far behind. Some people may have fun playing that 1 class so they can have the biggest numbers and do the hardest content, but the choice of class itself isn’t based on what class feels the most fun.

Having 90% of builds/playstyles lag far behind to the point they cannot do the content is functionally equivalent.

I was more replying to your specific choice of words.

"I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun."

Your wording here implies that you can run an optimized build or you can do something fun. My reply was to point out that, for some people, running the optimized build is the fun thing. I don't know if it was your intention with your words, since text can easily fail at conveying one's actual meaning, but I wanted to clarify.

I would agree with you on the idea of certain classes far outperforming others, though. Ideally, all classes should be competitive rather than a select few outclassing (sorry) the rest.

Deserrick · January 2

Nilandia wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

Nilandia wrote: »

Deserrick wrote: »

Frooke wrote: »

I know some of you might think, “But I don’t want to play with a specific build/playstyle.”

I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun.

Counterpoint: For some players, the fun is in putting together a build that is most effective. It is like solving a puzzle, and seeing higher damage numbers is satisfying to a lot of them. For other players (myself included), the fun is the challenge itself, seeing how far you can push yourself and still defeat the boss.

Just because we like harder content or are running more optimal builds, doesn't mean we're not having fun.

That’s not a counter to my point, it’s a sidestep of my point.

Let’s say there is a game with 10 classes, and one of those 10 has by far the best numbers and can do the hardest content, while the other 9 lag far behind. Some people may have fun playing that 1 class so they can have the biggest numbers and do the hardest content, but the choice of class itself isn’t based on what class feels the most fun.

Having 90% of builds/playstyles lag far behind to the point they cannot do the content is functionally equivalent.

I was more replying to your specific choice of words.

"I'm glad someone on the pro increased difficulty side is acknowledging that the game is only easy if a player limits themselves to specific builds/playstyles instead of doing what is fun."

Your wording here implies that you can run an optimized build or you can do something fun. My reply was to point out that, for some people, running the optimized build is the fun thing. I don't know if it was your intention with your words, since text can easily fail at conveying one's actual meaning, but I wanted to clarify.

I would agree with you on the idea of certain classes far outperforming others, though. Ideally, all classes should be competitive rather than a select few outclassing (sorry) the rest.

That was not my intention, and I appreciate you telling me how much wording came across. So many conversations spiral because there was no idea that the core of the argument was a miscommunication.

My intention was the same as choosing a class in my other example. Some people may genuinely find the gameplay of the 1 overpowered class the most fun, and some people may feel neutrally about how the classes play and find fun in getting the biggest numbers and the most content; but the game is only easy if people limit themselves to that 1 class instead of just doing whatever class they find to be fun.

ChaoticWings3 · January 5

I'm just going to post my comment from a previous topic since it got closed because I wasn't aware of this one. Mostly doing this since I still think it had good points and typing out everything again to say it on here would take too long.

From my previous post:

I should just mention that we don't know yet how overland difficulty is planned to be implemented and how hard it would actually be. Until we have more information we can only speculate so nothing is truly set in stone. Personally on my end I would prefer the overland at times to be a bit harder (like have story bosses have about the same amount of health as the first cycle boss in the infinite archive so I don't kill them in 5 seconds like I have been. The amount of build up to a major let down battle makes me feel like I entered an episode of One Punch Man. I really shouldn't be forced to light attack......every.....5.....seconds to keep an all powerful entity alive to be slightly perceived as a threat to the world) but I don't want to have overland content be completely changed for everyone at the same time. I sometimes just like to chill and relax with the game and being able to not worry about combat while during surveys tends to be fairly relaxing when I'm doing the task.

The best way I can see something implemented for overland content is by using a shrine to issue a buff/debuff system that alters the scaling algorithm for your current character. It honestly can work similarly to how the infinite archive gets harder over time. Probably have a difficulty between 1 to 5. 1 being pretty much what we have now and 5 either being around the 1st arc or 2nd arc difficulty of the infinite archive but now spread across the overland. 2 through 4 will be a middle ground if 5 is too hard and 1 is too easy. Think like around the level of craglorn at level 3 (again speculation). I would then say having an increase drop rate of gold, higher tier loot, and maybe some collectibles from doing the harder levels of difficulty would be a good incentive to trying out or possibly staying with the higher difficulty.

That is kind of what I wish would happen within reason. Realistically the difficulty I envision for the toughest level may be made easier. I don't think the developers want to have the content be so hard that it would push newer players away. If they did implement an all around difficulty increase I would say it wouldn't go higher then what craglorn is now which I think is a pretty decent difficulty level.

Again all we have at the moment is speculation until there is more clarification. Which unfortunately probably means we won't know until April.

Inkfingerps4 · January 5

Personally, I would rather see them leave basic Overland enemies, (skeevers, wolves, bears, bandits, etc.) as they are.
Perhaps Incursion enemies could be made more challenging along with the end of quest bosses.

As far as delves are concerned, I would suggest an optional veteran version of those much like there is with dungeons and trials. (Since they are separate instances that you load into, I presume this wouldn’t be too difficult to implement.)

It also occurs that more delves could be added to Bolgrul’s daily undaunted quest with perhaps extra rewards for completing the quest on vet.

Whatever difficulty changes the developers decide to make, I’d like to see them implemented in a single zone only to begin with. (perhaps coinciding with an event of some sort to encourage everyone to try things out.) This would give those without access to the test servers a fair chance to give feedback before the changes affect the entire game.

Poss · January 5

I’m on the fence about this. I do believe overland content is too easy and I’d be open to the idea of making these ads more challenging. But…it has to be fair

I remember back in 2015 when I first started playing, I remember not really having a clue what I was doing but I struggled in a quest in Bangkori and kept dying to wisps and wispmothers. I couldn’t progress the zone story any further and I was close to quitting. This was back before One Tamriel where each zone got progressively harder. It was I skill issue I know and I still chuckle over the fact I was halted by a wisp to this day.

My point is, the future of ESO depends entirely on new players picking the game up. More and more endgamers are leaving for their own reasons and if the population isn’t consistently being replenished with new players, the game won’t last. I want new players to start and STAY. If they can’t tackle the overland content solo it’s not gonna happen.

Personally I’d love to see overland difficulty being based around whatever dungeon setting you have set. If you’re on normal, the difficulty stays the same as it is currently. If you’re on vet, the difficulty increases significantly and you’re placed into a separate instance than those on normal.

TaSheen · January 5

Poss wrote: »

Personally I’d love to see overland difficulty being based around whatever dungeon setting you have set. If you’re on normal, the difficulty stays the same as it is currently. If you’re on vet, the difficulty increases significantly and you’re placed into a separate instance than those on normal.

Now this is maybe the best idea I've read yet. Kudos and props!

Wargrave · January 5

The fact that yall are going on about increasing overland difficulty and not asking for scaling difficulty in dungeons like virtually every other MMO shows how out of touch ZOS and this playerbase is. 🥴🥴

disky · January 5

TaSheen wrote: »

Poss wrote: »

Personally I’d love to see overland difficulty being based around whatever dungeon setting you have set. If you’re on normal, the difficulty stays the same as it is currently. If you’re on vet, the difficulty increases significantly and you’re placed into a separate instance than those on normal.

Now this is maybe the best idea I've read yet. Kudos and props!

I have to disagree, because of the fact that dungeon and overland difficulty, at their base levels, are not consistent right now. If all PvE content was made equal in difficulty across the board then that would make sense, but doing that would also cause a huge uproar and problems for players interested in different types of content.

disky · January 5

Wargrave wrote: »

The fact that yall are going on about increasing overland difficulty and not asking for scaling difficulty in dungeons like virtually every other MMO shows how out of touch ZOS and this playerbase is. 🥴🥴

This thread is specifically related to overland content. We got off topic for a minute but dungeons are not within the scope of this discussion.

spartaxoxo · January 5

Wargrave wrote: »

The fact that yall are going on about increasing overland difficulty and not asking for scaling difficulty in dungeons like virtually every other MMO shows how out of touch ZOS and this playerbase is. 🥴🥴

Um, I don't go on about anymore because I made a series of videos where I soloed dungeons quests on here. I wanted to show players they could potentially solo it to hear the story. And I wanted ZOS to understand just how long some of these dungeon stories are even when you edit out most of the combat. So, they understood why players won't wait for you to actually hear it even when they are nice enough to slow down to skip through it.

They have since added dungeon story mode to their agenda. It's in the "won't happen soon/no hard promise" state but it is on their official to-do list now which is better than the nothing it used to be.

This thread is about overland. So, that's my focus here. As it should be. But that doesn't mean I don't care.

ETA if you want to see the stories I played through at the time, be my guest. Please don't bump this thread.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/579181/storytime-with-bastian-in-normal-dungeons-and-why-we-need-a-story-mode/p1

Vulkunne · January 6

Read the Studio Director's Letter for '25 and hah almost couldn't believe what I was reading, how after all this time, especially after all the battles that I know were fought over this, but now it sounds like ZOS really heard us out on improving Overland Difficulty. It is good to see the real possibility that Overland content could experience some much needed change soon. This is something that many of us have asked for over time, even before this thread was setup here, where I participated in various battles over this very idea, along with others, some of whom fought the good fight but they either gave up or was driven off the subject... or worse. Anyways, umm I just thank everyone who listened to us on this, I'm hopeful the implementation will be something reasonable and will have something in it for everyone.

Also, given the sheer amount of unnecessary 'grief' we endured for such a long time, I think its appropriate to take just a moment in honor for those who contributed and recognized the fact that we in favor of improving Overland Difficulty, are speaking true in regards to this matter, even for those who are no longer with us today. This was something that mattered to us first, but it affects everyone whether they'll admit it or not and it's good to see after everything, our efforts weren't in vain. If some don't like me saying this then well, perhaps next time please don't try to kill suggestions just because... it's fine to disagree and to even challenge things but with that said, please consider the fact that the other party may be right, even if only their heart was in the right place... maybe judge the relevancy of the thing in and of itself (before resisting it so much).

Of course, ZOS can and will decide for themselves at their leisure. In fact, I think that goes for alot of things on here, but I digress and that is all.

SilverBride · January 6

I wouldn't celebrate until we hear exactly what is being planned.

spartaxoxo · January 6

SilverBride wrote: »

I wouldn't celebrate until we hear exactly what is being planned.

I am a cautious optimist. So, I'll celebrate now. And if it turns out bad, well I also mentally prepared for that. But, I can choose to be happy about ESO until April where I will know for sure. Or I can choose to be nervous and upset. And I choose happiness.

deadlychaos1991 · January 6

I have not posted on this forum ever but I came here to give my 2 cents and see if anyone agrees with me here.

Harder overland and delve/group dungeon content is great and that's a good thing. But my post is specifically in relation to the suggested new Craglorn type zones.

Firstly, a preamble. if you played in any reasonable fashion in 2014-2015, you can attest to this. The content releases around that time were FIRE! Craglorn was epic, Imperial City introduced one of the most unique ways to play PvP, the Maelstrom weapons literally revolutionized the gear chase back then.

I've been hearing some confusion about what the 2025 roadmap point about Craglorn means so I wanted to quickly clarify before continuing:

So if you don't know, when Craglorn was released in 2014, it used to be a 100% group zone. think of it as a dungeon, but spanning across an entire zone, delves were group-designed, story was meant to be completed as a group, instances were all cultivated for a 3-4 man party, eventually all culminating in these 3 EPIC (at the time) trials that actually had to do with the zone story. A trial story that someone actually cares about? NO WAY!

They even planned the future "Murkmire" DLC to be the next Craglorn. So what ultimately happened? People complained that there wasn't enough solo content in the game (which is crap, there's literally dozens of solo zones), and ultimately, they scrapped the idea due to player feedback at the time.

I had honestly given up hope that I'd EVER see another Craglorn-esque zone in this game ever again. I literally jumped off my couch when I read the 2025 roadmap.

Needless to say, I was ESTATIC. Just to clarify, this is an AMAZING IDEA. This would singlehandedly get me and a lot of old players fully back into the game. Here's is my specific feedback and suggestions, if you care to hear it:

1. I think this should be a full endgame zone where questing and exploring gives absolutely class-defining and game-changing gear. Super powerful, fun gear that will be extremely OP. here's the kicker, MAKE IT ONLY WORK IN THAT ZONE AND ANY INSTANCES WITHIN THAT ZONE. that way you can keep it in a quarantine of that gear without having to rebalance the entire game, and if this goes over well, and you introduce a new group-zone later, you can repeat the same gameplay loop in the new zone without causing issues. World of Warcraft used to have systems like these and it helps with balancing and typically goes over extremely well with the player base. If you know what Artifact Weapons are from WoW, you'll understand.

2. this gear could be upgradable. Think of the following gameplay loop: quest/explore/dungeon delve > beat content > get new zone-only currency > use currency for direct gear upgrades via vendor or something. currency could be used to bump the power of the gear, add unique effects, customize the gear in various ways (again, constrained to only that zone to avoid balancing issues). You can then specifically tune the content difficulty (dungeons/trials within the zone, overland etc.) to specifically suit the upgrade path of this gear, instead of needing it to be constantly in line with all other trials.

3. the ZOS benefit here is that this keeps players playing and invested into their vertical gear progression in the zone, longer player retention, more time played, more "time on the treadmill" if you will, ultimately more money. This game is overabundant with a horizontal gear progression (i.e. you build out your arsenal of gear sets out, all of which are viable, rather than a vertical one, where you're directly increasing in item level or power). You'd also funnel the player base into one zone which provides a stronger population in that zone, making it easier to group and interact, especially with the groupfinder feature that now exists.

4. if you wanted to take this a step further, you could always inactivate ALL other outside gear set bonuses when entering the zone, and could easily provide a lore reason why your gear sets don't work within the zone.

This would shake up the current (and stale, in my opinion) gameplay loop that exists because right now, there's really no "carrot" at the end of the stick for the players to chase. which is why ZOS is seeing players just kinda fizzle out.

Just my two cents from an extremely long-time player who has seen ALL the ups and downs of this game throughout the years.

disky · January 6

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

1. I think this should be a full endgame zone where questing and exploring gives absolutely class-defining and game-changing gear. Super powerful, fun gear that will be extremely OP. here's the kicker, MAKE IT ONLY WORK IN THAT ZONE AND ANY INSTANCES WITHIN THAT ZONE. that way you can keep it in a quarantine of that gear without having to rebalance the entire game, and if this goes over well, and you introduce a new group-zone later, you can repeat the same gameplay loop in the new zone without causing issues. World of Warcraft used to have systems like these and it helps with balancing and typically goes over extremely well with the player base. If you know what Artifact Weapons are from WoW, you'll understand.

Forgive me, because I'm pretty tired of how generally negative the feedback on this forum can be, but these are my thoughts:

The question I would ask myself if I were to see a gear system like this, with gear that only works in a single zone, would be "why would I want to do this?" I haven't played the WoW content you described but I know that the way I play ESO involves a lot of jumping around from zone to zone, and if I'm going to invest time and thought into a build, I'm not going to be super interested in one that only works in a zone that I'll spend only a part of my time in. I want to know that if I'm spending time to acquire something of value, it's going to be valuable across my time playing the game. Otherwise, it feels kind of ephemeral and ultimately, by definition it's not relevant to the larger game experience.

Maybe if the temporary gear leads to something that works everywhere, that's an idea? If that's the case it would have to be REALLY good, but at that point I'm going to become concerned about balance issues. Maybe you can combine that set into a mythic, and so maybe it is powerful, but it takes up the mythic slot? It would still need to be balanced out against other mythics of course. Maybe it's something mutable, kind of like how spellcraft works?

CP5 · January 7

It was interesting catching up over the last few pages, not the best food for thought, but some interesting points. Just real quick the idea that, "if you don't play, your voice shouldn't matter" is disheartening. The pvp community in this game has been a shadow of what it once was for years, but I would hope no one would hope for ZOS to not do things to help them, despite those players leaving. If your ship is sinking, and someone from below deck tells you it's sinking, and they flee on a lifeboat, that doesn't make the ship stop sinking.

But, since there were a few people putting together their thoughts, I think I'll try to hit the points I likely have mentioned several times during this thread, but I'll try to keep it short. (edit, failed)

I enjoy engaging content, things that are worth remembering. I mod Skyrim heavily whenever I play it, and at the top of my list are survival mods, particularly with surviving the cold. This is because I'm in Skyrim, and as a part of that area's theme, it's cold. Doing things like stopping to make camp, finding shelter from a blizzard, and traveling by foot to destinations makes for many memorable moments from the travel alone. It's why I enjoy video games so much more than tv or movies, that engagement breeds moments worth remembering. Things like survival clearly won't work in an MMO unless you want a very niche audience, and is not something I would ever expect ZOS to entertain.

However, as someone brought up, since every chapter is an expected onboarding moment for new and returning players, they are always designed for them. Take any quest, including the end of the main quest with world ending events, and the developers can only expect a player to be level 3 with some low quality gear. It isn't enjoyable for me to breeze through such basic content. I know how to heal, so the damage put out by overland enemies can be ignored. I know how to use aoe skills, so it doesn't matter how many of them I wrangle up, they all go down just as fast. And if it wasn't for the forced pauses in the final boss fights, a practiced player can output enough damage to put down any world ending thread with little fuss. If I go to the Deadlands, one of the most intimidating places in the lore, I don't want a casual walk, I want to actually feel the threat of such an imposing location, a feeling that can be made through gameplay, not giant deadra swimming in the sea and tornados politely sitting in their pens.

Because I have done a lot of vet content over the years, I am used to having to play the systems ESO has, and I enjoy them. Prioritizing targets, managing recourses, positioning, making use of what my skills do, these things engage me and I enjoy them. Since overland is only available in this one form, I have no need to use these, and I barely can given how quickly encounters finish. That makes overland incredibly dull and forgettable.

I do dungeons regularly with friends even now, done many of them hundreds of times over, but since I only play with those friends twice a week at most, some of the newer dungeons are still fresh, even months later. I enjoy the archive alright, if it weren't for the fact that, for a pseudo-rogue like, it is fairly simple, with only one tool that makes going far into it fun. But I enjoy the single player games, and the only place in ESO where exploration and questing is really focused on is overland, that's its point. In the past people like myself were told to 'just go do the dungeons then,' but dungeons don't satisfy that desire to experience the classic Elder Scrolls experience.

Now, ZOS hasn't said what they're going to do, and likely are still planning out what they will do, unless it has already been worked on for some time. Considering that every single piece of pve content aside from the archive has optional difficulty levels, I would say it is a safe bet that they won't make it forced. A slider bar would be simple, but I don't feel it would fix things the best. As mentioned recently, if you opt into a higher difficulty, and a lower difficulty player comes in and clears the content, it creates a negative interaction that I feel would better be avoided.

But the biggest issue for me is how much time enemies spend shooting fireworks, aka, skills that do nothing but look big. Like the mages from the Blackwood update, they conjure the large deadroth illusion, and it spews fire, but take 2 steps to the side and voilà, they're just putting on a show. This extends to bosses and elite mobs as well, I remember the one video where someone stood afk in front of one of those enchanted suits of armor and let it attack them, and the mob spent so long charging up simple stuns that passive health regen had the player covered. The speed in which enemies attack, and the impact their skills have, are the two things that matter most, along with the enemies having stats that differentiate them.

Like, if a fire mage casts a field of fire, but it's 3 puddles in the middle of nowhere, what does it matter? If that ability was removed, and they did 4 light attacks in the same time, they would have been more of a threat. Those attacks having a larger aoe, npc healers healing for enough to actually force players to switch target and attack the healer first, npc tanks with enough armor to warrant using armor debuffs or having them otherwise survive for much longer. Things like that would make different enemies actually matter, what you do in each fight would be determined by who you're fighting, and where. A quest where you are sent to stop necromancers would play out a lot more differently if necromancers, as an enemy class, were better at making swarms of the undead, whereas a cultist summoning a smaller number of more powerful minions, whereas a raw elemental caster might use large aoe spells to keep players contained.

Current overland fails to engage players like myself because there is no nuance beyond 'is melee' or 'is ranged' because every zone expects it to be some player's first zone, and I just want overland to be held to the same standard as the rest of pve, with options to better accommodate more players.

deadlychaos1991 · January 7

disky wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

1. I think this should be a full endgame zone where questing and exploring gives absolutely class-defining and game-changing gear. Super powerful, fun gear that will be extremely OP. here's the kicker, MAKE IT ONLY WORK IN THAT ZONE AND ANY INSTANCES WITHIN THAT ZONE. that way you can keep it in a quarantine of that gear without having to rebalance the entire game, and if this goes over well, and you introduce a new group-zone later, you can repeat the same gameplay loop in the new zone without causing issues. World of Warcraft used to have systems like these and it helps with balancing and typically goes over extremely well with the player base. If you know what Artifact Weapons are from WoW, you'll understand.

Forgive me, because I'm pretty tired of how generally negative the feedback on this forum can be, but these are my thoughts:

The question I would ask myself if I were to see a gear system like this, with gear that only works in a single zone, would be "why would I want to do this?" I haven't played the WoW content you described but I know that the way I play ESO involves a lot of jumping around from zone to zone, and if I'm going to invest time and thought into a build, I'm not going to be super interested in one that only works in a zone that I'll spend only a part of my time in. I want to know that if I'm spending time to acquire something of value, it's going to be valuable across my time playing the game. Otherwise, it feels kind of ephemeral and ultimately, by definition it's not relevant to the larger game experience.

Maybe if the temporary gear leads to something that works everywhere, that's an idea? If that's the case it would have to be REALLY good, but at that point I'm going to become concerned about balance issues. Maybe you can combine that set into a mythic, and so maybe it is powerful, but it takes up the mythic slot? It would still need to be balanced out against other mythics of course. Maybe it's something mutable, kind of like how spellcraft works?

Because that’s what end game is. You could ask yourself the same question of ‘why would I use a trial gear set that minor slayer works in dungeons and trials and not in the overworld?’ Because if that’s not what you’re interested in, then you won’t use it. If pvp doesn’t interest you, you don’t farm pvp gear. I think that’s kind of self evident.

If you want base game gear usable in the rest of the world, then farm your overland sets and be happy. You have plenty of content to play and be happy with right now. Clearly, you don’t need a content update.

Think of it like the verses and visions you get in infinite archives. Why do you get those? Theyre not relevant in any way anywhere else but infinite archives. But you carefully read and pick them anyway. Why? Because they’re fun, OP in some cases and help you in the archive…same idea here.

This new gear acquired doesn’t have to be a slog to grind and upgrade, it could be a fast paced acquisition and progression system. Could be completely customizable and fun to acquire and earn. The reason you would do it is for the insanely fun buffs and game breaking abilities you can use and play.

In WoW, your gear becomes irrelevant every few patches. But it’s easier to acquire and not upgradable typically. That’s not anything new so this idea is borrowing some of that gameplay loop.

disky · January 7

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

disky wrote: »

deadlychaos1991 wrote: »

1. I think this should be a full endgame zone where questing and exploring gives absolutely class-defining and game-changing gear. Super powerful, fun gear that will be extremely OP. here's the kicker, MAKE IT ONLY WORK IN THAT ZONE AND ANY INSTANCES WITHIN THAT ZONE. that way you can keep it in a quarantine of that gear without having to rebalance the entire game, and if this goes over well, and you introduce a new group-zone later, you can repeat the same gameplay loop in the new zone without causing issues. World of Warcraft used to have systems like these and it helps with balancing and typically goes over extremely well with the player base. If you know what Artifact Weapons are from WoW, you'll understand.

Forgive me, because I'm pretty tired of how generally negative the feedback on this forum can be, but these are my thoughts:

The question I would ask myself if I were to see a gear system like this, with gear that only works in a single zone, would be "why would I want to do this?" I haven't played the WoW content you described but I know that the way I play ESO involves a lot of jumping around from zone to zone, and if I'm going to invest time and thought into a build, I'm not going to be super interested in one that only works in a zone that I'll spend only a part of my time in. I want to know that if I'm spending time to acquire something of value, it's going to be valuable across my time playing the game. Otherwise, it feels kind of ephemeral and ultimately, by definition it's not relevant to the larger game experience.

Maybe if the temporary gear leads to something that works everywhere, that's an idea? If that's the case it would have to be REALLY good, but at that point I'm going to become concerned about balance issues. Maybe you can combine that set into a mythic, and so maybe it is powerful, but it takes up the mythic slot? It would still need to be balanced out against other mythics of course. Maybe it's something mutable, kind of like how spellcraft works?

Because that’s what end game is. You could ask yourself the same question of ‘why would I use a trial gear set that minor slayer works in dungeons and trials and not in the overworld?’ Because if that’s not what you’re interested in, then you won’t use it. If pvp doesn’t interest you, you don’t farm pvp gear. I think that’s kind of self evident.

If you want base game gear usable in the rest of the world, then farm your overland sets and be happy. You have plenty of content to play and be happy with right now. Clearly, you don’t need a content update.

Think of it like the verses and visions you get in infinite archives. Why do you get those? Theyre not relevant in any way anywhere else but infinite archives. But you carefully read and pick them anyway. Why? Because they’re fun, OP in some cases and help you in the archive…same idea here.

This new gear acquired doesn’t have to be a slog to grind and upgrade, it could be a fast paced acquisition and progression system. Could be completely customizable and fun to acquire and earn. The reason you would do it is for the insanely fun buffs and game breaking abilities you can use and play.

In WoW, your gear becomes irrelevant every few patches. But it’s easier to acquire and not upgradable typically. That’s not anything new so this idea is borrowing some of that gameplay loop.

I understand what you're saying, but I don't think most people think of overland in terms of a single zone, they think of it as the entirety of overland zones. I know there are mechanics which only exist within certain content and that even includes gear sets if we're thinking of PvP. It's just, I know that if I'm going to be playing ESO overland, I'm not going to stay in a single zone forever. I'm going to be moving around a lot. And that means that the sets I actually use will be sets I can take advantage of everywhere I go.

That may not matter to everyone, and maybe I'm not fully grasping your pitch, but what I have in my mind is something that won't see a lot of use unless it's really unique and/or provides access to a more permanent, global reward. Also, I have to wonder how ZOS would really feel about creating entire sets that are only for a single overland zone. It could be fun, it could be really special, but I also think that you could probably achieve a similar effect within a single zone by using zone-based mechanics rather than gear and create an equivalent or better experience for players without the frustration of adjusting a build for that one zone.

Elvenheart · January 8

My prediction is that whatever the new system is to make for a harder overland experience it will be like AWA with a lot of people saying, “This is not what we wanted!” I do hope I’m wrong. 😑

Smitch_59 · January 8

I've never been in favor of harder overland. I just hope they don't overdo it.

SilverBride · January 8

It's not been determined that increased overland difficulty will definitely be implemented. Matt said "These systems and ideas will be clearly marked as "experiments" in patch notes and are ideas that may or may not be fleshed out into full game systems."

I hope they will give us more information soon, but they may not have any more information until the experiment is complete.

spartaxoxo · January 8

Elvenheart wrote: »

My prediction is that whatever the new system is to make for a harder overland experience it will be like AWA with a lot of people saying, “This is not what we wanted!” I do hope I’m wrong. 😑

AWA was mandatory for performance reasons.

Elvenheart · January 8

Oh, I have a new theory! It will be a toggle, much like WoW's PvP toggle in overland, but for PvE, and if you toggle it on, at any given point mobs of enemies with millions of hit points will suddenly spawn no matter where you are in overland (not in cities) and attack you!

Kyip · January 9

Again, AGAIN, we were having a productive, constructive, insightful discussion, HERE, on a sub-topic related to overland content, and it was shut down, redirecting everyone to this quagmire. We were having a good conversation there. I didn't agree with everyone, but I found the on-topic discussion insightful and constructive, and they shut it down, pointing us here, where so many separate conversations are happening that people just disengage instead of continuing the original conversation. This is ridiculous. This is unhelpful. This is actively harmful to the ongoing conversation we were having. Why? Why do this?

TaSheen · January 9

Kyip wrote: »

Again, AGAIN, we were having a productive, constructive, insightful discussion, HERE, on a sub-topic related to overland content, and it was shut down, redirecting everyone to this quagmire. We were having a good conversation there. I didn't agree with everyone, but I found the on-topic discussion insightful and constructive, and they shut it down, pointing us here, where so many separate conversations are happening that people just disengage instead of continuing the original conversation. This is ridiculous. This is unhelpful. This is actively harmful to the ongoing conversation we were having. Why? Why do this?

@ZOS_Kevin....

He has a point, for sure.

spartaxoxo · January 9

Kyip wrote: »

Again, AGAIN, we were having a productive, constructive, insightful discussion, HERE, on a sub-topic related to overland content, and it was shut down, redirecting everyone to this quagmire. We were having a good conversation there. I didn't agree with everyone, but I found the on-topic discussion insightful and constructive, and they shut it down, pointing us here, where so many separate conversations are happening that people just disengage instead of continuing the original conversation. This is ridiculous. This is unhelpful. This is actively harmful to the ongoing conversation we were having. Why? Why do this?

I actually felt like that thread just used this topic as a jumping off point and it was it's own thing really. This thread hasn't had much discussion about quest markers

TaSheen · January 9

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Kyip wrote: »

Again, AGAIN, we were having a productive, constructive, insightful discussion, HERE, on a sub-topic related to overland content, and it was shut down, redirecting everyone to this quagmire. We were having a good conversation there. I didn't agree with everyone, but I found the on-topic discussion insightful and constructive, and they shut it down, pointing us here, where so many separate conversations are happening that people just disengage instead of continuing the original conversation. This is ridiculous. This is unhelpful. This is actively harmful to the ongoing conversation we were having. Why? Why do this?

I actually felt like that thread just used this topic as a jumping off point and it was it's own thing really. This thread hasn't had much discussion about quest markers

Yup. That's exactly how I felt.

Kyip · January 9

That's a better way to put it, yes. I'm just frustrated this keeps happening. Anything even vaguely related to overland content gets locked down, pointed here, and the conversation dies. I think I maybe overreacted in my post here, but this keeps happening. I've tried posting respectfully here several times to highlight these instances and articulate why I felt it was a mistake, but we do not see any actual admin input on any of that. It just keeps happening. I get that they can probably more easily gather related feedback in one thread, but I feel they are handicapping themselves by killing off so many active conversations.

TaSheen · January 9

Kyip wrote: »

That's a better way to put it, yes. I'm just frustrated this keeps happening. Anything even vaguely related to overland content gets locked down, pointed here, and the conversation dies. I think I maybe overreacted in my post here, but this keeps happening. I've tried posting respectfully here several times to highlight these instances and articulate why I felt it was a mistake, but we do not see any actual admin input on any of that. It just keeps happening. I get that they can probably more easily gather related feedback in one thread, but I feel they are handicapping themselves by killing off so many active conversations.

Well.... I think "feedback" isn't really the point here. The probable "real" point is to keep people from discussing something.... not exactly.... "fitting".