Overland Content Feedback Thread

tonyblack

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

But what separate overland have to do with you enjoying the game as it is? You would not be affected much in that option as well because you stay in normal instance.

Separate Overland instance would split players. The devs also signaled that if they were to do a separate one, it would come with special rewards.

Edit.

Devs also said a separate Overland instance would be high cost on their development time. And separately we have seen high cost stuff detract from the quality of the Overland questing, and new systems.

The question isn’t as much about the costs but how it would affect experience of single individual who would stay on difficulty they prefer.

And wouldn’t debuff come with special rewards too? That lotro slider you mentioned comes with xp bonuses and character unique titles. If devs go that way I doubt that it will be just thrown into the game without anything to incentives its use.

The solutions around different instances could be made cost effective and less impactful on casual players it’s only depends what they would affect and how.

spartaxoxo

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

But what separate overland have to do with you enjoying the game as it is? You would not be affected much in that option as well because you stay in normal instance.

Separate Overland instance would split players. The devs also signaled that if they were to do a separate one, it would come with special rewards.

Edit.

Devs also said a separate Overland instance would be high cost on their development time. And separately we have seen high cost stuff detract from the quality of the Overland questing, and new systems.

The question isn’t as much about the costs but how it would affect experience of single individual who would stay on difficulty they prefer.

And wouldn’t debuff come with special rewards too? That lotro slider you mentioned comes with xp bonuses and character unique titles. If devs go that way I doubt that it will be just thrown into the game without anything to incentives its use.

The solutions around different instances could be made cost effective and less impactful on casual players it’s only depends what they would affect and how.

The devs of LOTRO used the slider in particular because it was a lower cost solution. The dev time cost doesn't just affect ZoS. They have stated in the past (separate to this topic) that when they do these kind of high impact things it may result in reduced content Elsweyr. (Bah dum tssh). For example, I asked them a question they basically interpreted wrong about skipping dialogue in quests during dungeons during join encounter in progress. They told me they could fix the dialogue in DSA but it would take months and we'd lose new content. Then you can see this philosophy play out as well with there years of performance, where the new content has generally gotten worse but performance has improved.

Unlike a slider, they'd have to develop two or more versions of the same content each time. And there is the legitimate concern that may have an effect on the quality of future releases.

KoIIegoIas

for real *** those double quotes, now i can write everything again ffs xD

spartaxoxo

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

for real *** those double quotes, now i can write everything again ffs xD

Honestly I feel you on that. I'm on mobile and digging through months of past stuff was low-key annoying.

tonyblack

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

But what separate overland have to do with you enjoying the game as it is? You would not be affected much in that option as well because you stay in normal instance.

Separate Overland instance would split players. The devs also signaled that if they were to do a separate one, it would come with special rewards.

Edit.

Devs also said a separate Overland instance would be high cost on their development time. And separately we have seen high cost stuff detract from the quality of the Overland questing, and new systems.

The question isn’t as much about the costs but how it would affect experience of single individual who would stay on difficulty they prefer.

And wouldn’t debuff come with special rewards too? That lotro slider you mentioned comes with xp bonuses and character unique titles. If devs go that way I doubt that it will be just thrown into the game without anything to incentives its use.

The solutions around different instances could be made cost effective and less impactful on casual players it’s only depends what they would affect and how.

The devs of LOTRO used the slider in particular because it was a lower cost solution. The dev time cost doesn't just affect ZoS. They have stated in the past (separate to this topic) that when they do these kind of high impact things it may result in reduced content Elsweyr. (Bah dum tssh). For example, I asked them a question they basically interpreted wrong about skipping dialogue in quests during dungeons during join encounter in progress. They told me they could fix the dialogue in DSA but it would take months and we'd lose new content. Then you can see this philosophy play out as well with there years of performance, where the new content has generally gotten worse but performance has improved.

Unlike a slider, they'd have to develop two or more versions of the same content each time. And there is the legitimate concern that may have an effect on the quality of future releases.

The important nuance though whether such debuff would appeal to those who complains about difficulty or completely miss the mark and make those smaller costs effectively wasted.

If it would be as simple as food or mystic which nerf damage done and buff damage received, then yes it would be low cost. But as you stated you wanted that solution to cater to veteran players. Personally, I don’t see much difference in what something as simple like that has to offer since I already can achieve same results on live. Would addition like that provide more in-game enjoyment for you to interact with it regularly?

And if this debuff system would be as sophisticated as to offer vast number of possible effects and moreover even alter moveset of some enemies while possibly providing something else on top of that? System like that might be potentially even harder to design and less cost effective in comparison to vet/normal instances.

spartaxoxo

tonyblack wrote: »

If it would be as simple as food or mystic which nerf damage done and buff damage received, then yes it would be low cost. But as you stated you wanted that solution to cater to veteran players. Personally, I don’t see much difference in what something as simple like that has to offer since I already can achieve same results on live. Would addition like that provide more in-game enjoyment for you to interact with it regularly?

If you go back a page, I broke down what I'd like to see the debuff slider look like. Considering other developers have described the debuff slider as a cheat to bring down costs (even lotro devs which added minor new mechs to it), I very sincerely doubt it would be different in this game. If for no other reason, they don't have to continuously make two versions of an Overland of a zone every single time they release a new one. Because it mostly affects the player instead of the mobs.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

You seem to always forget that it is an international game and a lot do not have latency below 100ms, but far more than this. The game has to cater for this as well, there are not just american or european customers, who might have low latency. But already playing from Europe on the NA server or from North America on the EU server ups latency into the 250ms range, which spikes sometimes to 500-600ms in combat. People have by default the option to play on both servers, and the game's difficulty has to cater for this as well -at least overland and questing area have to cater for this.

No. It doesn't need to cater to people playing on the server most likely to give them a lot of lag. If someone purposefully pick a server far from them, they can live with the natural consequences.

Someone like that probably doesn't care about a harder overland anyway.

There is no oceanic server or asian server - from Australia it is about the same, if you choose NA or EU, it is about 360ms latency. And in combat it easily spikes to 700ms and above. Someone like that cares about overland difficulty - that it is not made significantly harder than it already is. And some suggested here, that it should be increased overall, not just optional. And this would be a disaster for people playing from Asia, Oceania, Australia and New Zealand.

Lysette

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

You seem to always forget that it is an international game and a lot do not have latency below 100ms, but far more than this. The game has to cater for this as well, there are not just american or european customers, who might have low latency. But already playing from Europe on the NA server or from North America on the EU server ups latency into the 250ms range, which spikes sometimes to 500-600ms in combat. People have by default the option to play on both servers, and the game's difficulty has to cater for this as well -at least overland and questing area have to cater for this.

Yeah right. Play on NA while i live in EU. Why make things easier in life when they can be hard and in the mist disadvantage. Nothing has to cater fir those cases. Thats just stupid xD

I have friends all over the world and some of them are playing ESO as well - some on EU and some on NA - you might just have friends on one side of the world, but not everyone is that isolated from the rest of the world as you are,.

KoIIegoIas

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

for real *** those double quotes, now i can write everything again ffs xD

Honestly I feel you on that. I'm on mobile and digging through months of past stuff was low-key annoying.

hahahaha. this is the main reason why i hate forums.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore.

I PvE in overland every single day and have for the past few years. Sometimes only for an hour, sometimes for several hours, so I am in touch with the current difficulty of overland. And I agree that veteran level would be too much for most players.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

I never was for seperate things. I am for a healthy buff of the difficulty, by that value nobody had a problem with how it was before one tamriel.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

Speculations get nobody anywhere. And some individuals are never happy with anything. But fact is that nobody complained about base overland difficulty, like about cadwells silver and gold by far. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things.

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore. But i would love it, like many wouldnt for sure. At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

That's not a fact. That's your opinion, based off an omission. I honestly don't agree because they nerfed it and because the game almost died. Sure less people complained than about silver and gold, but it probably wasn't nobody. I think they'd have probably left it alone if that was the case. But that's just me.

I think it would only be too much to buff it that high if it was a mandatory. But, it's not too much if it's optional. If it's optional and someone gets frustrated that they can't get past something, they can just finish up on normal. This is how people handle vet content in this game, I don't see why a vet overland needs to be any different.

Yes that us a FACT or you can prove something else than speculating things may never happened. Thats just your opinion, wich got no ground at all. They nerfed it because the game almost died because if cadwells silver + gold and nothing else.

Yes. It is never nobody, because i tell you again that some undiviuals can never be happy with anything just because of a few failures. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things. And that is a fact and not an opinion

You're also just speculating. They never stated that nobody had a problem with own zone. They stated that nobody played Silver and Gold. There is a difference. You're basing your opinion off the fact that they stated that nobody liked silver and gold, and that the game almost died. I am basing it off the fact that they stated that they felt they needed to remove the difficulty from questing and put it instead to world bosses and such, that they believe making the story accessible was key to their success, that they chose to nerf the base game, and that the game almost died.

We're simply using different facts to draw our conclusions.

I never was for seperate things

To me, a forced difficulty on everyone is the worst possible solution.

To me best to worse goes

Debuff Slider> Separate Instance > do nothing > forced difficulty increase on everyone

No you are speculating about things they may have not been adressed. My Statments are based on the ''Fact'' that ZOS never adressed any issues with difficulty of Own Faction or ''base zone'' difficulty (how you guys call it) in Forums, Reddit, Twitch streams or whatever platforms. Same with the people played it, beside from those wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, but there is also no prove of those people ever complained about it, but they will always be there for sure.

This is a question from a guy asking Rich Lambert in his Twitch Stream:

Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests?

''Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials.''

[Speaks about skyshards then returns to the topic.]

''People didn't do it because they had to go through their own alliance first? That's not actually true. A ton of people completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. A ton of people did. People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff.''

With One Tamriel the Issue with the instances between own faction, cadwells silver + gold got solved. And with the plan to put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials, ZOS had to find a difficulty for the whole world of tamriel overland.
To make sure that nobody will have any issues ever again with difficulties, my opinion is that they just nerfed it pretty hard, according to their own feelings, without feedback of the playerbase, since nobody complained about any other difficulty than cadwells. And the weird thing is that ZOS never adressed that they nerf own faction, beside Cadwells Silver+Gold aswell. That is the only opinion i have. Everything else from my side is related to Facts.

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.
But that '' people didnt like extra difficulty in story stuff'' what rich said, is related to Cadwells Silver+Gold, because it was an extra difficulty compared to the the Own faction/base zone difficulty or they wouldn't define it as extra difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

tonyblack

spartaxoxo wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

If it would be as simple as food or mystic which nerf damage done and buff damage received, then yes it would be low cost. But as you stated you wanted that solution to cater to veteran players. Personally, I don’t see much difference in what something as simple like that has to offer since I already can achieve same results on live. Would addition like that provide more in-game enjoyment for you to interact with it regularly?

If you go back a page, I broke down what I'd like to see the debuff slider look like. Considering other developers have described the debuff slider as a cheat to bring down costs (even lotro devs which added minor new mechs to it), I very sincerely doubt it would be different in this game. If for no other reason, they don't have to continuously make two versions of an Overland of a zone every single time they release a new one. Because it mostly affects the player instead of the mobs.

The main difference between lotro and eso is the fact that first one has 13 different servers for PC (according to their wiki) and difficulty sliders are only available on sub exclusive ones while eso has only 6 so interaction between players would be different. I’ve never played lotro so I don’t know how their player pop looks like but I have my doubts on how effective something like that would be during eso primetime. I can only imagine how frustrating it could be to try to use it only to encounter instances with dead enemies and camped bosses.

My other concern is that just 2 effects (damage done and received) might make little to no improvements in comparison to what is available now and only highlight how badly designed most of the enemies and bosses are. Again, I’m not sure about game mechanics of lotro, but just as 1 example: in eso healing is very powerful tool available to all classes and builds vie abilities and sets so adjustments to that needed as well as to other sources of power creep. Adding special moves and effects would be nice and probably make it more engaging because right now most overland enemies has long cast times on their abilities with clear telegraphs and little impact when casted.

But in the end the satisfaction from such addition would depend on how well it was designed to fit in eso world and solutions that are more sophisticated would be more costly.

tonyblack

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

for real *** those double quotes, now i can write everything again ffs xD

Honestly I feel you on that. I'm on mobile and digging through months of past stuff was low-key annoying.

hahahaha. this is the main reason why i hate forums.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore.

I PvE in overland every single day and have for the past few years. Sometimes only for an hour, sometimes for several hours, so I am in touch with the current difficulty of overland. And I agree that veteran level would be too much for most players.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

I never was for seperate things. I am for a healthy buff of the difficulty, by that value nobody had a problem with how it was before one tamriel.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

Speculations get nobody anywhere. And some individuals are never happy with anything. But fact is that nobody complained about base overland difficulty, like about cadwells silver and gold by far. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things.

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore. But i would love it, like many wouldnt for sure. At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

That's not a fact. That's your opinion, based off an omission. I honestly don't agree because they nerfed it and because the game almost died. Sure less people complained than about silver and gold, but it probably wasn't nobody. I think they'd have probably left it alone if that was the case. But that's just me.

I think it would only be too much to buff it that high if it was a mandatory. But, it's not too much if it's optional. If it's optional and someone gets frustrated that they can't get past something, they can just finish up on normal. This is how people handle vet content in this game, I don't see why a vet overland needs to be any different.

Yes that us a FACT or you can prove something else than speculating things may never happened. Thats just your opinion, wich got no ground at all. They nerfed it because the game almost died because if cadwells silver + gold and nothing else.

Yes. It is never nobody, because i tell you again that some undiviuals can never be happy with anything just because of a few failures. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things. And that is a fact and not an opinion

You're also just speculating. They never stated that nobody had a problem with own zone. They stated that nobody played Silver and Gold. There is a difference. You're basing your opinion off the fact that they stated that nobody liked silver and gold, and that the game almost died. I am basing it off the fact that they stated that they felt they needed to remove the difficulty from questing and put it instead to world bosses and such, that they believe making the story accessible was key to their success, that they chose to nerf the base game, and that the game almost died.

We're simply using different facts to draw our conclusions.

I never was for seperate things

To me, a forced difficulty on everyone is the worst possible solution.

To me best to worse goes

Debuff Slider> Separate Instance > do nothing > forced difficulty increase on everyone

No you are speculating about things they may have not been adressed. My Statments are based on the ''Fact'' that ZOS never adressed any issues with difficulty of Own Faction or ''base zone'' difficulty (how you guys call it) in Forums, Reddit, Twitch streams or whatever platforms. Same with the people played it, beside from those wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, but there is also no prove of those people ever complained about it, but they will always be there for sure.

This is a question from a guy asking Rich Lambert in his Twitch Stream:

Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests?

''Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials.''

[Speaks about skyshards then returns to the topic.]

''People didn't do it because they had to go through their own alliance first? That's not actually true. A ton of people completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. A ton of people did. People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff.''

With One Tamriel the Issue with the instances between own faction, cadwells silver + gold got solved. And with the plan to put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials, ZOS had to find a difficulty for the whole world of tamriel overland.
To make sure that nobody will have any issues ever again with difficulties, my opinion is that they just nerfed it pretty hard, according to their own feelings, without feedback of the playerbase, since nobody complained about any other difficulty than cadwells. And the weird thing is that ZOS never adressed that they nerf own faction, beside Cadwells Silver+Gold aswell. That is the only opinion i have. Everything else from my side is related to Facts.

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.
But that '' people didnt like extra difficulty in story stuff'' what rich said, is related to Cadwells Silver+Gold, because it was an extra difficulty compared to the the Own faction/base zone difficulty or they wouldn't define it as extra difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think the main problem with pre one tamriel comparisons is that back then end game was very limited and undeveloped part of the game so the concept of something more difficult and engaging wasn’t discussed as much. Over the years we got tons of end game content and the community with interest to such content has grown but it’s strictly limited to groups. As solo player you have no options but 2 arenas or solo stuff which intended for groups as any story related content is extremely easy and lack replay value. At least this is my perspective.

Lysette

tonyblack wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

for real *** those double quotes, now i can write everything again ffs xD

Honestly I feel you on that. I'm on mobile and digging through months of past stuff was low-key annoying.

hahahaha. this is the main reason why i hate forums.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore.

I PvE in overland every single day and have for the past few years. Sometimes only for an hour, sometimes for several hours, so I am in touch with the current difficulty of overland. And I agree that veteran level would be too much for most players.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

I never was for seperate things. I am for a healthy buff of the difficulty, by that value nobody had a problem with how it was before one tamriel.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

Speculations get nobody anywhere. And some individuals are never happy with anything. But fact is that nobody complained about base overland difficulty, like about cadwells silver and gold by far. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things.

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore. But i would love it, like many wouldnt for sure. At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

That's not a fact. That's your opinion, based off an omission. I honestly don't agree because they nerfed it and because the game almost died. Sure less people complained than about silver and gold, but it probably wasn't nobody. I think they'd have probably left it alone if that was the case. But that's just me.

I think it would only be too much to buff it that high if it was a mandatory. But, it's not too much if it's optional. If it's optional and someone gets frustrated that they can't get past something, they can just finish up on normal. This is how people handle vet content in this game, I don't see why a vet overland needs to be any different.

Yes that us a FACT or you can prove something else than speculating things may never happened. Thats just your opinion, wich got no ground at all. They nerfed it because the game almost died because if cadwells silver + gold and nothing else.

Yes. It is never nobody, because i tell you again that some undiviuals can never be happy with anything just because of a few failures. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things. And that is a fact and not an opinion

You're also just speculating. They never stated that nobody had a problem with own zone. They stated that nobody played Silver and Gold. There is a difference. You're basing your opinion off the fact that they stated that nobody liked silver and gold, and that the game almost died. I am basing it off the fact that they stated that they felt they needed to remove the difficulty from questing and put it instead to world bosses and such, that they believe making the story accessible was key to their success, that they chose to nerf the base game, and that the game almost died.

We're simply using different facts to draw our conclusions.

I never was for seperate things

To me, a forced difficulty on everyone is the worst possible solution.

To me best to worse goes

Debuff Slider> Separate Instance > do nothing > forced difficulty increase on everyone

No you are speculating about things they may have not been adressed. My Statments are based on the ''Fact'' that ZOS never adressed any issues with difficulty of Own Faction or ''base zone'' difficulty (how you guys call it) in Forums, Reddit, Twitch streams or whatever platforms. Same with the people played it, beside from those wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, but there is also no prove of those people ever complained about it, but they will always be there for sure.

This is a question from a guy asking Rich Lambert in his Twitch Stream:

Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests?

''Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials.''

[Speaks about skyshards then returns to the topic.]

''People didn't do it because they had to go through their own alliance first? That's not actually true. A ton of people completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. A ton of people did. People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff.''

With One Tamriel the Issue with the instances between own faction, cadwells silver + gold got solved. And with the plan to put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials, ZOS had to find a difficulty for the whole world of tamriel overland.
To make sure that nobody will have any issues ever again with difficulties, my opinion is that they just nerfed it pretty hard, according to their own feelings, without feedback of the playerbase, since nobody complained about any other difficulty than cadwells. And the weird thing is that ZOS never adressed that they nerf own faction, beside Cadwells Silver+Gold aswell. That is the only opinion i have. Everything else from my side is related to Facts.

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.
But that '' people didnt like extra difficulty in story stuff'' what rich said, is related to Cadwells Silver+Gold, because it was an extra difficulty compared to the the Own faction/base zone difficulty or they wouldn't define it as extra difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think the main problem with pre one tamriel comparisons is that back then end game was very limited and undeveloped part of the game so the concept of something more difficult and engaging wasn’t discussed as much. Over the years we got tons of end game content and the community with interest to such content has grown but it’s strictly limited to groups. As solo player you have no options but 2 arenas or solo stuff which intended for groups as any story related content is extremely easy and lack replay value. At least this is my perspective.

I guess Cadwell's silver and gold were intended to be veteran content - because they were just accessible by the same avatars after having completed their faction territory. This would have worked, if people would have liked to play a basically similar content to what they had already played in a different territory - with enhanced difficulty - but that is what they didn't like. And this fact stands against harder overland content, this experience that something like that had already failed.

tonyblack

Lysette wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

for real *** those double quotes, now i can write everything again ffs xD

Honestly I feel you on that. I'm on mobile and digging through months of past stuff was low-key annoying.

hahahaha. this is the main reason why i hate forums.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore.

I PvE in overland every single day and have for the past few years. Sometimes only for an hour, sometimes for several hours, so I am in touch with the current difficulty of overland. And I agree that veteran level would be too much for most players.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

I never was for seperate things. I am for a healthy buff of the difficulty, by that value nobody had a problem with how it was before one tamriel.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

Speculations get nobody anywhere. And some individuals are never happy with anything. But fact is that nobody complained about base overland difficulty, like about cadwells silver and gold by far. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things.

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore. But i would love it, like many wouldnt for sure. At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

That's not a fact. That's your opinion, based off an omission. I honestly don't agree because they nerfed it and because the game almost died. Sure less people complained than about silver and gold, but it probably wasn't nobody. I think they'd have probably left it alone if that was the case. But that's just me.

I think it would only be too much to buff it that high if it was a mandatory. But, it's not too much if it's optional. If it's optional and someone gets frustrated that they can't get past something, they can just finish up on normal. This is how people handle vet content in this game, I don't see why a vet overland needs to be any different.

Yes that us a FACT or you can prove something else than speculating things may never happened. Thats just your opinion, wich got no ground at all. They nerfed it because the game almost died because if cadwells silver + gold and nothing else.

Yes. It is never nobody, because i tell you again that some undiviuals can never be happy with anything just because of a few failures. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things. And that is a fact and not an opinion

You're also just speculating. They never stated that nobody had a problem with own zone. They stated that nobody played Silver and Gold. There is a difference. You're basing your opinion off the fact that they stated that nobody liked silver and gold, and that the game almost died. I am basing it off the fact that they stated that they felt they needed to remove the difficulty from questing and put it instead to world bosses and such, that they believe making the story accessible was key to their success, that they chose to nerf the base game, and that the game almost died.

We're simply using different facts to draw our conclusions.

I never was for seperate things

To me, a forced difficulty on everyone is the worst possible solution.

To me best to worse goes

Debuff Slider> Separate Instance > do nothing > forced difficulty increase on everyone

No you are speculating about things they may have not been adressed. My Statments are based on the ''Fact'' that ZOS never adressed any issues with difficulty of Own Faction or ''base zone'' difficulty (how you guys call it) in Forums, Reddit, Twitch streams or whatever platforms. Same with the people played it, beside from those wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, but there is also no prove of those people ever complained about it, but they will always be there for sure.

This is a question from a guy asking Rich Lambert in his Twitch Stream:

Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests?

''Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials.''

[Speaks about skyshards then returns to the topic.]

''People didn't do it because they had to go through their own alliance first? That's not actually true. A ton of people completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. A ton of people did. People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff.''

With One Tamriel the Issue with the instances between own faction, cadwells silver + gold got solved. And with the plan to put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials, ZOS had to find a difficulty for the whole world of tamriel overland.
To make sure that nobody will have any issues ever again with difficulties, my opinion is that they just nerfed it pretty hard, according to their own feelings, without feedback of the playerbase, since nobody complained about any other difficulty than cadwells. And the weird thing is that ZOS never adressed that they nerf own faction, beside Cadwells Silver+Gold aswell. That is the only opinion i have. Everything else from my side is related to Facts.

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.
But that '' people didnt like extra difficulty in story stuff'' what rich said, is related to Cadwells Silver+Gold, because it was an extra difficulty compared to the the Own faction/base zone difficulty or they wouldn't define it as extra difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think the main problem with pre one tamriel comparisons is that back then end game was very limited and undeveloped part of the game so the concept of something more difficult and engaging wasn’t discussed as much. Over the years we got tons of end game content and the community with interest to such content has grown but it’s strictly limited to groups. As solo player you have no options but 2 arenas or solo stuff which intended for groups as any story related content is extremely easy and lack replay value. At least this is my perspective.

I guess Cadwell's silver and gold were intended to be veteran content - because they were just accessible by the same avatars after having completed their faction territory. This would have worked, if people would have liked to play a basically similar content to what they had already played in a different territory - with enhanced difficulty - but that is what they didn't like. And this fact stands against harder overland content, this experience that something like that had already failed.

I haven’t played eso pre one tamriel but from comments I’ve read about this era I get the impression it was not as much about difficulty rather than the fact that content was gated by character levels and you had to do it in specific order. I’m not sure if there were a lot of content creators back then and how popular they were with general game audience but most videos from 2014 I found on YT did questing in completely random gear with different levels, unoptimised skill bars and consumables. No wonder they struggled in what today would be viewed as easy.

Nowadays you can level up in a few hours, had tons of viable builds, powerful sets which make old content easier with each update, more skill options, companions who could be more effective helpers than some give them credit, a lot of convenient addons filling different niches (for PC mostly) and better organized sites of content creators to guide you through everything.

Comparing to pre one tamriel is unfair on so many levels, I still can’t fathom why Rich chose it as the main counterpoint considering how much eso changed since then.

Daraklus

Even if you were to play unoptimized with random mismatched gear, you'd still be having an easy time.

Lysette

tonyblack wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

for real *** those double quotes, now i can write everything again ffs xD

Honestly I feel you on that. I'm on mobile and digging through months of past stuff was low-key annoying.

hahahaha. this is the main reason why i hate forums.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore.

I PvE in overland every single day and have for the past few years. Sometimes only for an hour, sometimes for several hours, so I am in touch with the current difficulty of overland. And I agree that veteran level would be too much for most players.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

Not everyone who wants to keep overland as it is is claiming that it's too hard. I have stated multiple times that I find overland easy and I like it that way and I want to keep it that way. That is why I am against a separate veteran overland and in favor of options that only affect the individual character who chooses to use them.

I never was for seperate things. I am for a healthy buff of the difficulty, by that value nobody had a problem with how it was before one tamriel.

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

Speculations get nobody anywhere. And some individuals are never happy with anything. But fact is that nobody complained about base overland difficulty, like about cadwells silver and gold by far. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things.

I think buff overland content to current vetereran lvl would be to much, but maybe im wrong, because i stopped PvEing completly after i decided to not waste my time on one tamriel overland anymore. But i would love it, like many wouldnt for sure. At the end there are always the efficiency driven people, wich pretend everything is too hard, just because they cant kill everything as fast as before anymore.

That's not a fact. That's your opinion, based off an omission. I honestly don't agree because they nerfed it and because the game almost died. Sure less people complained than about silver and gold, but it probably wasn't nobody. I think they'd have probably left it alone if that was the case. But that's just me.

I think it would only be too much to buff it that high if it was a mandatory. But, it's not too much if it's optional. If it's optional and someone gets frustrated that they can't get past something, they can just finish up on normal. This is how people handle vet content in this game, I don't see why a vet overland needs to be any different.

Yes that us a FACT or you can prove something else than speculating things may never happened. Thats just your opinion, wich got no ground at all. They nerfed it because the game almost died because if cadwells silver + gold and nothing else.

Yes. It is never nobody, because i tell you again that some undiviuals can never be happy with anything just because of a few failures. And some people that may complained about it arent worth to fix stuff for. makes no sense. And the other thing is that Zos is known for overnerfing things. And that is a fact and not an opinion

You're also just speculating. They never stated that nobody had a problem with own zone. They stated that nobody played Silver and Gold. There is a difference. You're basing your opinion off the fact that they stated that nobody liked silver and gold, and that the game almost died. I am basing it off the fact that they stated that they felt they needed to remove the difficulty from questing and put it instead to world bosses and such, that they believe making the story accessible was key to their success, that they chose to nerf the base game, and that the game almost died.

We're simply using different facts to draw our conclusions.

I never was for seperate things

To me, a forced difficulty on everyone is the worst possible solution.

To me best to worse goes

Debuff Slider> Separate Instance > do nothing > forced difficulty increase on everyone

No you are speculating about things they may have not been adressed. My Statments are based on the ''Fact'' that ZOS never adressed any issues with difficulty of Own Faction or ''base zone'' difficulty (how you guys call it) in Forums, Reddit, Twitch streams or whatever platforms. Same with the people played it, beside from those wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, but there is also no prove of those people ever complained about it, but they will always be there for sure.

This is a question from a guy asking Rich Lambert in his Twitch Stream:

Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests?

''Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials.''

[Speaks about skyshards then returns to the topic.]

''People didn't do it because they had to go through their own alliance first? That's not actually true. A ton of people completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. A ton of people did. People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff.''

With One Tamriel the Issue with the instances between own faction, cadwells silver + gold got solved. And with the plan to put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials, ZOS had to find a difficulty for the whole world of tamriel overland.
To make sure that nobody will have any issues ever again with difficulties, my opinion is that they just nerfed it pretty hard, according to their own feelings, without feedback of the playerbase, since nobody complained about any other difficulty than cadwells. And the weird thing is that ZOS never adressed that they nerf own faction, beside Cadwells Silver+Gold aswell. That is the only opinion i have. Everything else from my side is related to Facts.

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.
But that '' people didnt like extra difficulty in story stuff'' what rich said, is related to Cadwells Silver+Gold, because it was an extra difficulty compared to the the Own faction/base zone difficulty or they wouldn't define it as extra difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think the main problem with pre one tamriel comparisons is that back then end game was very limited and undeveloped part of the game so the concept of something more difficult and engaging wasn’t discussed as much. Over the years we got tons of end game content and the community with interest to such content has grown but it’s strictly limited to groups. As solo player you have no options but 2 arenas or solo stuff which intended for groups as any story related content is extremely easy and lack replay value. At least this is my perspective.

I guess Cadwell's silver and gold were intended to be veteran content - because they were just accessible by the same avatars after having completed their faction territory. This would have worked, if people would have liked to play a basically similar content to what they had already played in a different territory - with enhanced difficulty - but that is what they didn't like. And this fact stands against harder overland content, this experience that something like that had already failed.

I haven’t played eso pre one tamriel but from comments I’ve read about this era I get the impression it was not as much about difficulty rather than the fact that content was gated by character levels and you had to do it in specific order. I’m not sure if there were a lot of content creators back then and how popular they were with general game audience but most videos from 2014 I found on YT did questing in completely random gear with different levels, unoptimised skill bars and consumables. No wonder they struggled in what today would be viewed as easy.

Nowadays you can level up in a few hours, had tons of viable builds, powerful sets which make old content easier with each update, more skill options, companions who could be more effective helpers than some give them credit, a lot of convenient addons filling different niches (for PC mostly) and better organized sites of content creators to guide you through everything.

Comparing to pre one tamriel is unfair on so many levels, I still can’t fathom why Rich chose it as the main counterpoint considering how much eso changed since then.

Because it was a traumatic experience for them, that that content, meant to be "endgame" didn't work as expected, because people just disliked the difficulty or that they had to complete their faction territory first. Instead most went to make alts in every faction territory - so there was no need to ever play through Cadwell's silver and gold. Since they changed ESO to One Tamriel, it is a success story - and like I said before, ZOS is not likely to shot in their both feet by trying something like Cadwell's silver and gold ever again. That is why I think, Rich mentioned that so vividly - it simply didn't work out.

But this was not the main reason for One Tamriel - before there were so many hurdles to take to play together with friends, if they were of a much different level - and there was this barrier between factions as well. This had to go to make it a better MMO experience. Playing together with friends should not be hard, but easily accessible - what it is now.

spartaxoxo

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.

Well, that's fair. Still, a ton of people that did choose to play the game, did so only in their own faction isn't the same thing as none complained about own faction difficulty. As everyone knows a lot of people also quit the game back then. So you cannot make the claim that it's a fact that because he didn't discuss complaints about own faction, this means everyone was fine with that difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think anything that wouldn't make a casual audience annoyed by the difficulty would be too easy for vet players.

spartaxoxo

tonyblack wrote: »

But in the end the satisfaction from such addition would depend on how well it was designed to fit in eso world and solutions that are more sophisticated would be more costly.

Yes, we would definitely need a debuff slider that was more sophisticated than LOTROs, it would be easy to add a healing debuff too. The debuff already exists in the game, so adding to a slider wouldn't be much extra work.

And the more sophisticated either solution gets, the more resources you'd need. But a debuff slider isn't something that would always need a lot of development time because you wouldn't need to keep making it. A new version of a zone is. So it should still be significantly cheaper than a sophisticated separate instance.

Debuff slider is simply a cheaper solution than designing an entirely separate instance everytime with all new mechs. And a separate zone without new mechs is no different to a simple, basic debuff slider.

Because let's say you have a monster that hits for 1000 damage. And a hero that can resist 500 damage. So the hero takes 500 damage. And now you want to make him take 800 damage so the fight is harder. There's no difference for the person playing the hero if the hero resists 200 damage now, or the monster hits for 1300 damage. 800 damage is 800 damage.

The difference between the two options is that debuffs is cheaper but has far less room for new mechs because you don't have to constantly modify the monsters. Adjusting the monster is more costly, but also gives you more room to change the encounter with the monster too. Since he's in a hard mode instance you can give him a bunch of new attacks, perhaps even have him bust down a wall and take you someplace that doesn't exist in the normal mode. The sky is the limit. You cannot change the environment with a debuff slider and the attacks that you can add with them would be much more basic.

SilverBride

tonyblack wrote: »

I haven’t played eso pre one tamriel but from comments I’ve read about this era I get the impression it was not as much about difficulty rather than the fact that content was gated by character levels and you had to do it in specific order.

I did play before One Tamriel and the main problem was the difficulty.

I remember how much it increased when I got to the first Cadwell's Silver zone. I would die all the time to trash mobs just trying to get to my quest objective. And the mini story bosses were so difficult sometimes it took me an hour or more before I finally made it past them. Delve bosses were so bad I would just wait for others to show up to even attempt them. And I was literally stuck for days trying to get past the main story big bosses.

Somehow I got through it and finished both Silver and Gold but I never attempted it again on any other characters. Then they introduced Craglorn. It was so difficult that you couldn't do anything solo. Questing was impossible because all anyone did was make huge groups and just zerg around in a frenzy. Not my idea of a good time so I quit until One Tamriel.

Here is a link to a thread I started back then asking for solo questing because it was literally impossible for me to level any further due to the difficulty forcing players to group.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/132207/please-give-us-a-solo-questing-for-vet-levels-11-14#latest

Is it any wonder that I now get a knee jerk reaction when I hear "overland is too easy"?

ZOS_Exile

Greetings all,

After removing a few off topic posts, we would like to ask everyone to keep posts on the subject at hand.

Thank you for your understanding.

Parasaurolophus

SilverBride wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

I haven’t played eso pre one tamriel but from comments I’ve read about this era I get the impression it was not as much about difficulty rather than the fact that content was gated by character levels and you had to do it in specific order.

I did play before One Tamriel and the main problem was the difficulty.

I remember how much it increased when I got to the first Cadwell's Silver zone. I would die all the time to trash mobs just trying to get to my quest objective. And the mini story bosses were so difficult sometimes it took me an hour or more before I finally made it past them. Delve bosses were so bad I would just wait for others to show up to even attempt them. And I was literally stuck for days trying to get past the main story big bosses.

Somehow I got through it and finished both Silver and Gold but I never attempted it again on any other characters. Then they introduced Craglorn. It was so difficult that you couldn't do anything solo. Questing was impossible because all anyone did was make huge groups and just zerg around in a frenzy. Not my idea of a good time so I quit until One Tamriel.

Here is a link to a thread I started back then asking for solo questing because it was literally impossible for me to level any further due to the difficulty forcing players to group.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/132207/please-give-us-a-solo-questing-for-vet-levels-11-14#latest

Are you sure that you had the right level for this zones and equipment? Have you tried using healing abilities? Also, your thread where you ask for solo questing for 10v+, do you mean Craglorn? Because yes, Craglorn was significantly more difficult than the rest of the content.

tonyblack

SilverBride wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

I haven’t played eso pre one tamriel but from comments I’ve read about this era I get the impression it was not as much about difficulty rather than the fact that content was gated by character levels and you had to do it in specific order.

I did play before One Tamriel and the main problem was the difficulty.

I remember how much it increased when I got to the first Cadwell's Silver zone. I would die all the time to trash mobs just trying to get to my quest objective. And the mini story bosses were so difficult sometimes it took me an hour or more before I finally made it past them. Delve bosses were so bad I would just wait for others to show up to even attempt them. And I was literally stuck for days trying to get past the main story big bosses.

Somehow I got through it and finished both Silver and Gold but I never attempted it again on any other characters. Then they introduced Craglorn. It was so difficult that you couldn't do anything solo. Questing was impossible because all anyone did was make huge groups and just zerg around in a frenzy. Not my idea of a good time so I quit until One Tamriel.

Here is a link to a thread I started back then asking for solo questing because it was literally impossible for me to level any further due to the difficulty forcing players to group.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/132207/please-give-us-a-solo-questing-for-vet-levels-11-14#latest

I might be wrong, but the way I understand it if you were in a zone with appropriate to your level, spend all your skill points on skills and passives which was most useful for your build and had overland sets with appropriate level you could beat most quests without issues.

What were you using back then? Random dropped gear of random traits, weights and no set bonuses? Did you get most of the passive skills and was familiar with your class? Did you have heal slotted? Were you overleveled or underleveled for veteran zones?

Those questions might be irrelevant now though. Not only because difficulty was changed but also because players received significant buffs over the years in form of improvements of skills and passives, introduction of CPs, powerful item sets, companions, etc. I have a feeling that with all that combined if you put same player in those environments the outcome might be different.

My point is the difficulty back then might not be related only to environments but also to character building and availability of information to utilize all available resources (proper tutorials and build sites).

SilverBride

tonyblack wrote: »

What were you using back then? Random dropped gear of random traits, weights and no set bonuses? Did you get most of the passive skills and was familiar with your class? Did you have heal slotted? Were you overleveled or underleveled for veteran zones?

That was 8 years ago so I don't remember what gear I was wearing, but I am sure it was adequate because I had a friend who gave me a lot of help with what gear and skills I should be using. And there was no over leveled or under leveled because the zones had to be done in order.

But my point was the difficulty was the problem for a lot of players.

Lysette

tonyblack wrote: »

My point is the difficulty back then might not be related only to environments but also to character building and availability of information to utilize all available resources (proper tutorials and build sites).

Just a comment to that - someone role playing a character might not use any of this meta information at all. And even if he/she knows about it, his/her character doesn't. If a character is played from the perspective of that character, what that character cannot know, he doesn't know, even if the player does, it is irrelevant for the role play. It just counts, what the character can know - and that character might have to find out about it by experience.

Your way of approaching the game is a competitive way, not a role player's way to approach the game play and character development. It is very different from how you play the game - you are basically your character, whereas a role player sees a character as a separate entity with own experiences and knowledge and as well own ignorance to facts, which the player is aware of, but that character isn't. And so that character is allowed to make mistakes, which the player wouldn't make.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

tonyblack wrote: »

My point is the difficulty back then might not be related only to environments but also to character building and availability of information to utilize all available resources (proper tutorials and build sites).

Just a comment to that - someone role playing a character might not use any of this meta information at all. And even if he/she knows about it, his/her character doesn't. If a character is played from the perspective of that character, what that character cannot know, he doesn't know, even if the player does, it is irrelevant for the role play. It just counts, what the character can know - and that character might have to find out about it by experience.

Your way of approaching the game is a competitive way, not a role player's way to approach the game play and character development. It is very different from how you play the game - you are basically your character, whereas a role player sees a character as a separate entity with own experiences and knowledge and as well own ignorance to facts, which the player is aware of, but that character isn't. And so that character is allowed to make mistakes, which the player wouldn't make.

Eh. That's also a really casual form of roleplaying. Some people still put their characters in builds they try to optimize when roleplaying, but instead try to make it more thematic. Like a lot of people who want to be frost mages are constantly monitoring every new ice set for optimal performance, and try to squeeze out as much DPS as they can within the limit of only using frost sets.

KoIIegoIas

Lysette wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

You seem to always forget that it is an international game and a lot do not have latency below 100ms, but far more than this. The game has to cater for this as well, there are not just american or european customers, who might have low latency. But already playing from Europe on the NA server or from North America on the EU server ups latency into the 250ms range, which spikes sometimes to 500-600ms in combat. People have by default the option to play on both servers, and the game's difficulty has to cater for this as well -at least overland and questing area have to cater for this.

Yeah right. Play on NA while i live in EU. Why make things easier in life when they can be hard and in the mist disadvantage. Nothing has to cater fir those cases. Thats just stupid xD

I have friends all over the world and some of them are playing ESO as well - some on EU and some on NA - you might just have friends on one side of the world, but not everyone is that isolated from the rest of the world as you are,.

none of that justifys to choose a server with the worst possible ping when it is possible to choose the recommended one. i live in europe and play pvp on na and i never have higher ping than 300. you know nothing about me and its irrelevant where you have friends. i have friends on NA, but why would the play on timbuktu rather than NA. Because they may have friends on timbuktu, i get your point. But thats not a lot of people and Zos doesnt have to cater any of those, because they cant take any little tiny reason into consideration to for One Tamriel.

KoIIegoIas

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.

Well, that's fair. Still, a ton of people that did choose to play the game, did so only in their own faction isn't the same thing as none complained about own faction difficulty. As everyone knows a lot of people also quit the game back then. So you cannot make the claim that it's a fact that because he didn't discuss complaints about own faction, this means everyone was fine with that difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think anything that wouldn't make a casual audience annoyed by the difficulty would be too easy for vet players.

People stop playing a game for different reasons. Because pvp is *** or they dont like that combat system, lore or whatever. Allthrough there werent complains from anyone, anywhere about base zone, refer to or speculating about on that because people may stopped the game because they find base zone hard, is weird. Especially when it comes to decide big changes like one tamriel. Makes more sense to think/talk about stuff wich got some ground.
And its not only the fact that Rich didnt disgussed it in any of the interview you guys like to quote as an answer to whatever. Its the the fact that nobody did. With nobody i dont cover those people wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, because there is no need to cover them. Or no complains on a larger scale. Important are those wich are noticed by ZOS to possibly be changed, like it is with the majority changes made because of player feedback.

DK combustion or Templar bubble nerfhammer incoming just because a few people complaining about it? No way. The *** about Mag Dk autopilot sustain and almost 50% population of dragonknights in Cyro and BG's was even to the Combustion Overnerf ***.
Or its the other way when ZOS fixes or changes stuff from their own without feedback like they did with overland base zone.

If they change the difficulty back to 2k14 own faction over/Base zone pre one tamriel, i doubt that it would be to easy for veterans, because i remember it was enough for me. And refering to molag bal, he was minimum 3 times easier right after One tamriel released. You couldnt pull 30 mobs together and kill them all without any injuries, like you can do EASLY today.

spartaxoxo

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.

Well, that's fair. Still, a ton of people that did choose to play the game, did so only in their own faction isn't the same thing as none complained about own faction difficulty. As everyone knows a lot of people also quit the game back then. So you cannot make the claim that it's a fact that because he didn't discuss complaints about own faction, this means everyone was fine with that difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think anything that wouldn't make a casual audience annoyed by the difficulty would be too easy for vet players.

People stop playing a game for different reasons. Because pvp is *** or they dont like that combat system, lore or whatever. Allthrough there werent complains from anyone, anywhere about base zone, refer to or speculating about on that because people may stopped the game because they find base zone hard, is weird. Especially when it comes to decide big changes like one tamriel. Makes more sense to think/talk about stuff wich got some ground.
And its not only the fact that Rich didnt disgussed it in any of the interview you guys like to quote as an answer to whatever. Its the the fact that nobody did. With nobody i dont cover those people wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, because their is no need to cover them. With nobody i mean, no complaints on a larger scale. Those wich are noticed by ZOS to possibly be changed, like it is with the majority changes made because of player feedback.

DK combustion or Templar bubble nerfhammer incoming just because a few people complaining about it? No way. Or its the other way when ZOS fixes or changes stuff from their own without feedback like they did with overland base zone.

If they change the difficulty back to 2k14 own faction over/Base zone pre one tamriel, i doubt that it would be to easy for veterans, because i remember it was enough for me. And refering to molag bal, he was minimum 3 times easier right after One tamriel released. You couldnt pull 30 mobs together and kill them all without any injuries.

Just because you didn't notice complaints, doesn't mean that ZOS did not. In addition to having more communication from the community than we do, they can tell if players are getting stuck at parts and then quitting the game. They have not discussed own faction difficulty complaints, but we do have statements saying that they believe removing the Overland was something they considered a crit path and key to their success. They clearly decided even the base zones needed a nerf. So that indicates that something made them feel that way. And all of their statements on that matter indicate that it was because they found that their players did not want difficulty in their stories.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

If they change the difficulty back to 2k14 own faction over/Base zone pre one tamriel, i doubt that it would be to easy for veterans, because i remember it was enough for me. And refering to molag bal, he was minimum 3 times easier right after One tamriel released. You couldnt pull 30 mobs together and kill them all without any injuries.

It was fairly simple in base game sets, even if you didn't have all full sets. I doubt it can hold a candle to the might we have now. The game has changed too much.

Lysette

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

With that opinion about difficulty in general that the current overland is challenging and hard for you, Vet Maelstrom Arena or Vet Vateshran hollow should be impossible for you.
Everyone who honestly thinks that the current overland content is hard and challending, will never beat the the difficulty of current VMA.

About Cadwell's Silver and Gold, I do see the point you are making. You are right that players did often complete their own faction's normal zones and the bulk of the complaints were about Silver and Gold's veteran levels. I don't know why they nerfed all the original base zones down with One Tamriel rather than just the veteran Silver and Gold zones. Only they can tell us that.

Okay you get my point. And you even dont understand why they even nerfed own faction overland aswell. Thats something

One question. The difficulty of own faction difficulty or ''original base zones'' how you called it was way easier than cadwell's silver + gold, BUT still way harder than current overland.
Just imagine if they bring that ''original base zone'' difficulty back. It would be good enough for people(for me atleast) what want harder and engaging content and not too much for the people what just want to do lore.
Also nobody of the people wich were only interested in lore without difficulty complained about before One Tamriel was released, althrough it was minimum three times as hard as the current overland difficulty.

In my opinion it would bring new flavor into the content even for those wich only want story BUT it would still be added difficulty today, wich you dont like. Would that be so incredibly bad?

To be fair, I can actually see a need for them to have lowered the difficulty level to the game. When I first started playing ESO, (just a few months before One Tamriel came out) I ran into a point where I could not defeat a main quest boss. ESO is the first MMO I have ever played, I had just played the single player Elder Scrolls games. And with every year that goes by without an Elder Scrolls 6 being released, we will likely see more people like me in the game.

However, now that I have a few years under my belt and have some what of an idea of what I am doing (With the right build I can solo Fungal Grotto I on vet hard mode, but have never managed to complete vet Maelstrom) I find the overland content too easy.

If I had the ability to adjust the difficulty of the overland content, I would likely never get tired of running quests in ESO. However, I also recognize that we can't just up the difficultly level because otherwise we will lose many new players when they run into a wall similar to what I hit when I first started.

They actually never stated base oldverland received no complaints. Given how they were bleeding players back then, I actually think it's likely they received complaints about that too. I bet a lot never even made it to Silver, or else why why would they have bothered to change it?

Regardless of the truth of the matter, which we don't know, I think if they do increase the difficulty (which they ought to) it should be tuned to current vet player difficulty. The game has really changed a lot since then.

You seem to always forget that it is an international game and a lot do not have latency below 100ms, but far more than this. The game has to cater for this as well, there are not just american or european customers, who might have low latency. But already playing from Europe on the NA server or from North America on the EU server ups latency into the 250ms range, which spikes sometimes to 500-600ms in combat. People have by default the option to play on both servers, and the game's difficulty has to cater for this as well -at least overland and questing area have to cater for this.

Yeah right. Play on NA while i live in EU. Why make things easier in life when they can be hard and in the mist disadvantage. Nothing has to cater fir those cases. Thats just stupid xD

I have friends all over the world and some of them are playing ESO as well - some on EU and some on NA - you might just have friends on one side of the world, but not everyone is that isolated from the rest of the world as you are,.

none of that justifys to choose a server with the worst possible ping when it is possible to choose the recommended one. i live in europe and play pvp on na and i never have higher ping than 300. you know nothing about me and its irrelevant where you have friends. i have friends on NA, but why would the play on timbuktu rather than NA. Because they may have friends on timbuktu, i get your point. But thats not a lot of people and Zos doesnt have to cater any of those, because they cant take any little tiny reason into consideration to for One Tamriel.

To me it the same - around 360ms latency up to about 700ms in combat situations - NA and EU is about the same distance - around 16,500km. I answered to that in more detail, but my post got moderated - so I won't repeat it here.

KoIIegoIas

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The topic about difficulty only refers to Cadwells silver+Gold. He said that nobody did Cadwells silver+gold and that people didnt like extra difficulty. But he also said that a Ton of people did play own faction/base zone. Wich difficulty obviously wasnt the issue for the playerbase.

Well, that's fair. Still, a ton of people that did choose to play the game, did so only in their own faction isn't the same thing as none complained about own faction difficulty. As everyone knows a lot of people also quit the game back then. So you cannot make the claim that it's a fact that because he didn't discuss complaints about own faction, this means everyone was fine with that difficulty.

Yeah it is definitely the worst, but i dont think that old base zone difficulty would trigger many people since it wasnt close as hard as cadwells was. Even with the new toolkit of more effective abilites and morph's we have compared to 2k14. a lot has changed and a lot things help people to kill everything with less effort we needed back in the days.

I think anything that wouldn't make a casual audience annoyed by the difficulty would be too easy for vet players.

People stop playing a game for different reasons. Because pvp is *** or they dont like that combat system, lore or whatever. Allthrough there werent complains from anyone, anywhere about base zone, refer to or speculating about on that because people may stopped the game because they find base zone hard, is weird. Especially when it comes to decide big changes like one tamriel. Makes more sense to think/talk about stuff wich got some ground.
And its not only the fact that Rich didnt disgussed it in any of the interview you guys like to quote as an answer to whatever. Its the the fact that nobody did. With nobody i dont cover those people wich complain about everything, because of the tendency to give up quickly after a few failures, because their is no need to cover them. With nobody i mean, no complaints on a larger scale. Those wich are noticed by ZOS to possibly be changed, like it is with the majority changes made because of player feedback.

DK combustion or Templar bubble nerfhammer incoming just because a few people complaining about it? No way. Or its the other way when ZOS fixes or changes stuff from their own without feedback like they did with overland base zone.

If they change the difficulty back to 2k14 own faction over/Base zone pre one tamriel, i doubt that it would be to easy for veterans, because i remember it was enough for me. And refering to molag bal, he was minimum 3 times easier right after One tamriel released. You couldnt pull 30 mobs together and kill them all without any injuries.

Just because you didn't notice complaints, doesn't mean that ZOS did not. In addition to having more communication from the community than we do, they can tell if players are getting stuck at parts and then quitting the game. They have not discussed own faction difficulty complaints, but we do have statements saying that they believe removing the Overland was something they considered a crit path and key to their success. They clearly decided even the base zones needed a nerf. So that indicates that something made them feel that way. And all of their statements on that matter indicate that it was because they found that their players did not want difficulty in their stories.

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

If they change the difficulty back to 2k14 own faction over/Base zone pre one tamriel, i doubt that it would be to easy for veterans, because i remember it was enough for me. And refering to molag bal, he was minimum 3 times easier right after One tamriel released. You couldnt pull 30 mobs together and kill them all without any injuries.

It was fairly simple in base game sets, even if you didn't have all full sets. I doubt it can hold a candle to the might we have now. The game has changed too much.

They did not disgussed or adressed own faction base zone difficulty, because there wasnt any complains. They had data from cadwells silver+gold, wich said that 2/3 of the playerbase didnt play Cadwells, but a ton of people played own faction base zone difficulty.

And that doesnt have to do anything with me not noticed any complains. That has something to do with that there is no reason for them to keep things like that as a secrets ROFL. Its about the extra difficulty from cadwell's Silver+Gold. An extra difficulty added after completing their own faction overland base zones. Deal with it.

Here the Twitch statement of Rich Lambert again:

Can we get a vet mode for delves and quests?

''Uh, so we had that ... at launch. It was called Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold. Nobody did it and everybody hated it, so we took it out. We put the challenge into World Bosses, and into solo Arenas, and into Dungeons and Trials.''

''People didn't do it because they had to go through their own alliance first? That's not actually true. A ton of people completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. A ton of people did. People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff.

''I get there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things. And so that was why we did what we did and said story is soloable and crit path will always be soloable and if you want the extra challenge you can go seek out other things to challenge you.''

He even said that they had harder content with Cadwells silver+gold, but never said that own faction base zone alliance questlines was a part of the harder difficulty. There he says that that a Ton of people did completed their own alliance storylines to get to silver and gold. That they just dont like the extra difficulty in the story stuff, wich was added with cadwells.

There was a base difficulty of alliance questlines nobody complained about and an extra difficulty and Harder difficulty of cadwells silver+gold. Not a single statement at all that people didnt like difficulty in general or that they struggled specific with own faction base game alliance Overland from Rich at all.

And with your speculation about their crit path of nerfing overland base game is a statement they never specified. Its just a statement of nerfing everything that far that anyone on that planet can solo those things. Rich said they want it that way that ''always'' everyone can Solo everything. And that is what we have today with One Tamriel. And there is absolutely nobody who cant solo stuff, because they made it so easy, that you even can kill almost everything named without cp and Gear.

And that was something they changed by their own and not because any complains from larger scale. The larger scale of complains always were about cadwells silver.
Ofc you can come with your speculations of indicators of some Xfactor crap again about mysterious data they didn't show us bla bla bla, because you have no Quotes and facts left to ground your arguments, but ZOS told us about their Data showing everyone that tons of people played own faction base game alliance storyline and there was no specific complain and not any single ''indicators'' of anyone didnt like it. And since all the context was based on extra difficulty of Veteran Zones, aslong there arent any specific comments from Zos or a bunch of people about the need of nerfing own faction base game overland difficulty, all of your indicators and points will still be speculations.

Everything is just related to extra difficulty of Cadwells Silver+Gold. Deal with that.

Lysette

Well, they could of course make the same mistake as guild wars made - and loose a big chunk of their player base by listening to people like you. The game is popular as it currently is and economically successful. This can change in an instant, if ZOS is making the wrong move with this. When I started with ESO, I could experience the before One Tamriel difficulty for just a few months, then came One Tamriel. I remember it as sometimes too much and sometimes too less, when the "old" zone was getting too easy and the next one was still annoyingly difficult. I had 80ms latency at that time, living 400km from the EU server. It was acceptable with that low latency - but it would most likely not have been enjoyable with my current latency. Would it be doable with the old difficulty?- I guess, it would. Would it be fun?- Most likely not and why would I want to continue dropping money into this game, if it would be no longer enjoyable?

Tbh, I experience this thread already as a threat to my enjoyment of the game, it takes away part of my love for the Elder Scrolls, because I fear that ZOS could be listening to people like you and ruin the game for me. That is why I post that often here - I experience it as stress. I like the game how it currently is and I appreciate the tendency it has - to more casual gaming with new non-combat activities. And everything else in overland provides a relaxed experience, and that is what I want. An adventure, but not a difficult challenge.