Overland Content Feedback Thread

colossalvoids

Some are using different mediums to express their feelings or just see a lot of refusal here to even participate, first hand info from people I play with. They just don't bother with forums or convincing strangers on web for that matter.

Aardappelboom

Lysette wrote: »

Why not that many argue - I can tell you why I think that is - because they don't care - they might assume that ZOS will do nothing at all and that's it. And that is actually the most likely - why would they do something what costs them quite a lot of effort for people, who might just be back in cyrodiil as soon as performance there is better. Waste of time and money to do that. Then there is the fact that difficulty means for everyone of those wanting it something different - there is no common ground to be found and regardless how that would be implemented, the complaining would not stop - so doing nothing at all achieves the same. Then there is the commercial side to it, separate instances cost money - and none of those wanting that has stated that they would be willing to pay anything extra for it - and that's it.

The cost argument is a non-argument, as many, including myself pointed out, there are ways to increase or decrease difficulty by tampering with player stats, for which the systems are already in place (battle spirit, battle level, etc...) Baldur's gate, even the older fallout games and our beloved Skyrim apply penalties or gains depending on difficulty: 20% dmg increased incoming dmg, deal 10% less dmg, etc...

Also the idea that they won't gain anything is flat out wrong, a big part of DLC value is the story, there has been criticism on the cost of DLC because a lot of people don't feel engaged in the story and therefor judge the value of the DLC purely on systems or features added. Also there's a reason why every RPG uses difficulty levels and it's because people simply like different things, and that'll never change so ZOS has every reason to add these optional difficulty settings to maximize the attractiveness for all players.

What I do agree on though is that ZOS will probably not take any decisions on this anytime soon, based on the comments of Rich, I kind of get the feeling that he's looking at difficulty all wrong, citing the problems of the past and not thinking about solutions or retrospecting on why the difficulty might not have been well received and that it might have been because of the implementation and not just about it being difficult.

Lysette

But why do you think we got companions then?- Ok, they are popular, one of the most downloaded mods in a TES game, even there are companions in Skyrim for example. Still, people want multiple companions. But why would they, if the game is not too difficult in the first place and there is a difficulty slider. We have no difficulty slider in ESO, but we got companions, who perform reasonably well in normal overland content. My Mirri is level 6 and can deal with a River Troll nearly on her own. if I cast consuming trap on that troll. So why did we get companions, who are performing like an average player? (that is a guess)

I assume Mirri to be modelled after an average player, because in this case she is an adequate support character. But at the same time, this is lowering difficulty of the game world substantially. So tell me, if the game world is in your opinion by far too easy, why did we get companions to make it even easier and not just a bit, but substantially more?

Btw my personal reason for having Mirri around is, that I like to interact with NPC companions. I even consider their likes and dislikes and it is one of the reason I might buy a complete edition for a new account - none of my characters turned out to be suited for dark brotherhood or thieves guild and I doubt that Mirri would tolerate that - I care as well for avoiding to kill bugs, because she hates it. And I like her handling her inferno staff in combination with a ninja jump on enemies - she is exactly what I need as support character and I adore her.

LashanW

Lysette wrote: »

I assume Mirri to be modelled after an average player, because in this case she is an adequate support character. But at the same time, this is lowering difficulty of the game world substantially. So tell me, if the game world is in your opinion by far too easy, why did we get companions to make it even easier and not just a bit, but substantially more?

Objection! Calls for speculation!
hehe JK, sorry couldn't resist.

Are you implying that companions were added mainly because people find questing gameplay too hard or even fairly challenging?

I don't agree. I think companions were added mainly so that people could attempt challenging activities without having to rely on other players. Activities like world bosses, world events and even group content such as dungeons. It was also a heavily requested feature, and as you said, some people like having NPC companions that you can interact with and build a relationship with. Something more than a pet or a mount that offers no interactions. Companions are cool to have.

Also, I don't think companions were modelled after an average player. I think they are below that, in terms of combat effectiveness. There was a concern over people kicking players in dungeons and replacing them with companions. And as such companions are not designed to be on par with average player afaik.

Lysette

LashanW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I assume Mirri to be modelled after an average player, because in this case she is an adequate support character. But at the same time, this is lowering difficulty of the game world substantially. So tell me, if the game world is in your opinion by far too easy, why did we get companions to make it even easier and not just a bit, but substantially more?

Objection! Calls for speculation!
hehe JK, sorry couldn't resist.

Are you implying that companions were added mainly because people find questing gameplay too hard or even fairly challenging?

I don't agree. I think companions were added mainly so that people could attempt challenging activities without having to rely on other players. Activities like world bosses, world events and even group content such as dungeons. It was also a heavily requested feature, and as you said, some people like having NPC companions that you can interact with and build a relationship with. Something more than a pet or a mount that offers no interactions. Companions are cool to have.

Also, I don't think companions were modelled after an average player. I think they are below that, in terms of combat effectiveness. There was a concern over people kicking players in dungeons and replacing them with companions. And as such companions are not designed to be on par with average player afaik.

It was actually a serious question - why do we have companions. Sure, it is cool to have them, I like Mirri a lot and if she would show even more personality, I would appreciate it. See, I even consider to start a totally new account, because I assume, that Mirri might hate me being in the dark brotherhood and even she is tolerating thievery, I doubt the new Breton companion in High Isle will. It is anyway ridiculous that my characters are in those guilds, dark brotherhood is a bunch of murderers who lustfully kill, they are not a religious cult. And the thieves guild is a bunch of petty losers - both is not for me.

I have not seen Mirri performing at her best yet, but I think that she is fairly good at level 6 already, fighting a river troll on her own, which I have weakened with consuming trap. She is losing about half of her health on the way to success, but that is fairly good for a level 6 companion and I smile if she ends the fight saying "huh, that was a bit of a warm up". She has just 2 heavy armor pieces yet, so this is surprisingly good. She is not weaving or animation cancelling, but I guess that she is not that much less effective than a player, who is as well not weaving and animation cancelling - you cannot assume everyone doing that, especially not a new player, for whom that concept is alien.

Her weapon damage value is low, that is true, a player has barehanded 1000 damage, her weapons at that level are below the fists of a player. She should be weaker than a player, but I have seen players perform worse than her. She is persistent and sometimes reckless, I like to have her by my side, much more than a real player. But that has other reasons, Mirri is not stressing me out, whereas a real player does.

Daraklus

I don't think it's worth arguing about this topic since I get the feeling the people in favor of no changes to any difficulty what so ever do not wish to argue in good faith. So I'm just going to leave this video.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq_58WP35-c&t=1s

francesinhalover

can you like , spread cards from trials of tribute across open world? i just want more to collect z, thank you

Aardappelboom

I really wanted to try a few things based on the feedback on this topic, most of this write up is obviously subjective but it was still a very intersting experience, first here's my conclusion for those not interested in the whole post:

What I Learned (TLDR)

• It's very clear to me that a simple flat decrease in outgoing damage and increase in incoming damage potentially solves the difficulty problem, the game and combat design of overland is actually pretty good in its current state.
• I very much enjoyed the storyline with the heigthend challenge, it didn't only feel more immersive, I spent a lot more time playing it, looking forward to every part and even really loving the design and combat with the specific storyline mobs (fodder and bosses) I also noticed a lot more details, listened to more NPC (non story) conversations.
• Bosses were challenging, I died a couple of times and I really had to learn their attacks and adapt.
• Boss fights felt epic, and very rewarding.
• I had to block, roll and generally pay attention to the attack queus.
• I really felt the love ZOS puts into these things, a few parts in Greymoor were very memorable for me in a sense that the flow of the story really made for an awesome action adventure kind of game.
• I still really missed a lot of character progression and I missed the extra fun in "building" my character with sets, weapons, enchantments food, etc... in particular.
• just to throw a bone to those who like the game as is: I did increase my outgoing damage to see how it scaled and just changing from lvl 10 gear to lvl 40 gear made the game a lot more easy. I admit that in a public dungeon I changed builds once to overcome a challenge, so the idea of optionally changing difficulty on the fly is defintely how it should be implemented.

Why I wanted to do this
I have always loved the zone stories and was pretty much engaged with them when I first started playing ESO, I enjoyed the zones up until Craglorn, with Craglorn being a zone I really loved because the extra difficulty really brought freshness to the game after completing the main story. I also started playing vet dungeons (now doing them solo) and trials and did a lot of PVP and after doing this, overland just started feeling really easy and didn't challenge me enough.

What bothers me

• I just couldn't die, even if I tried, just standing with basic health regen would allow me to just stay alive at all times.
• I killed everything with about two hits
• My stamina and magica were endless so I never had sustain problems
• No blocking, rolling, moving was needed, no resource mangement at any given time.
• I just rushed through the zone stories in just a few hours, story dungeons were cleared in mere minutes which meant the zone wasn't really a big part of the experience for me.

What I did

I had just finished elsweyr and wanted to start Greymoor, I started by doing the DLC dungeons solo, which really add a lot of depth to the entire "year" story (I can really recommend this to anyone who wants to really experience the story like a single player game) I really wanted to enjoy this storyline so I tried to make myself weaker to overcome the above challenges and really try to get close to a single player experience, which the stories are obviously made for. Here's what I did:

• I crafted basic lvl 10 weapons[/b] to really gimp my damage.
• I removed all armor and jewelery
• I removed all passives of every skill line, but I kept the morphs I liked and felt worked.
• I have a companion, Mirri, mostly as a healer. I set her up so she'd use her bow and couldn't use her skills otherwise I wasn't able to die once again.
• I removed all food buffs
• I removed all attribute points.
• I removed all CP nodes, except for nodes in the green tree

My conclusions are at the op.

thoughts

It makes me wonder @ZOS_Kevin, I strongly believe, that with the current implementations of battle-level and battle spirit, this could be a very minor change for ZOS to apply, I would love to get some insights on that from the team.

That only leaves the discussion of rewards, of which I still believe it's a non-issue or definitely not something that should be key in deciding wether or not difficulty for the story content needs to be optionally adjustable. But if that's what you guys or Rich are stuck on you can always launch a survey to get a bit of an idea on how people think about that.

Lysette

And still newbies get themselves killed - because you know what is coming, they don't - for them it is a surprise and they might not know how to react to it at first. I agree though, that a flat decrease in outgoing damage and a slight increase in incoming damage might feel better (if it is optional, never forget, newbies get themselves killed by trash goblins).

Decrease in outgoing damage does just not have a large range to choose from - Mirri does about 700 minimal, so I guess the most we can eventually factor in is a decrease by 500 - leaving Mirri's standard bow at 200. That will not feel like she is helping anymore though and with a decrease in incoming damage she might not survive on many occasions and during her learning phase. She would need a health buff to get around this issue, because if she is dying more often than not, she will not be as fun and helpful as she currently is.

Increase in incoming damage - that has to be very carefully chosen - I guess there is the actual problem - because what you might consider to be just right, I will most likely see as insanely high. To find common ground here is very difficult. And if that option is not for me, I am against it - waste of time for just a few imo. It needs to benefit a larger crowd, if done at all.

And as far as rewards go - strictly no changes - you want this for challenge, for personal pleasure basically, you don't need better rewards on top of it imo.

LashanW

Aardappelboom wrote: »

• I crafted basic lvl 10 weapons[/b] to really gimp my damage.
• I removed all armor and jewelery
• I removed all passives of every skill line, but I kept the morphs I liked and felt worked.
• I have a companion, Mirri, mostly as a healer. I set her up so she'd use her bow and couldn't use her skills otherwise I wasn't able to die once again.
• I removed all food buffs
• I removed all attribute points.

Interesting. Did you remove CP as well?
I really don't like the idea of removing sets. There's a lot of proc sets that can be super fun to use. Hmm I guess one could purposefully reconstruct them at low qualty, crap traits. Removing the enchantment is a problem tho. I think having a low level character is also needed to reconstruct things at low level. Crafting is fine ofc.

Lysette wrote: »

And still newbies get themselves killed - because you know what is coming, they don't - for them it is a surprise and they might not know how to react to it at first. I agree though, that a flat decrease in outgoing damage and a slight increase in incoming damage might feel better (if it is optional, never forget, newbies get themselves killed by trash goblins).

I know I'm repeating myself for I don't know how many times, but overland/questing difficulty increase can be made optional. No need to worry about "newbies" that way. This is about making questing fun again for experienced players like me, so we can experience stories without it feeling like a visual novel. 100+ pages and still so many times new players are brought up as an excuse when we ask for optional difficulty, feels like baiting at this point.

Lysette wrote: »

Decrease in outgoing damage does just not have a large range to choose from - Mirri does about 700 minimal, so I guess the most we can eventually factor in is a decrease by 500 - leaving Mirri's standard bow at 200. That will not feel like she is helping anymore though and with a decrease in incoming damage she might not survive on many occasions and during her learning phase. She would need a health buff to get around this issue, because if she is dying more often than not, she will not be as fun and helpful as she currently is.

Why worry about this? Debuffs that change incoming/outgoing damage are character specific, meaning they are only applied to player characters. They don't apply to every living entity in the instance. Sometimes they don't even apply to player pets.

Lysette

My point was, if it doesn't benefit a large crowd (which would mean slight increases/decreases) then I think it isn't worth doing it at all. If there is a solution which would give people like me a slightly harder experience and for you a much harsher experience, then fine. But it should not be just for a few with insanely high dps in elite gear.

This said, I think @Aardappelboom is generally on the right track with a decrease in damage output and an increase in incoming damage, the thing in question is just, how much decrease/increase.

And that I worry about Mirri in her learning phase comes from me digging up some treasures in Ali'kir in the north-east. There is a whole lot of mob to fight through before I can get to the excavation site. Mirri did well, but I don't feel good, when I see her health going halfway down. With much harder enemies there she would eventually not survive - that is why I worry about her under changed conditions.

colossalvoids

"Large" is not something definitive. PvP seems large enough to have it as a feature, things that I enjoy also still existing - dungeons, trials and arenas. I'm pretty sure that people loving more difficulty in overland should be a way bigger crowd than trial and PvP scene combined. Various difficulty increase mods are pretty highly ranked for elder scrolls overall, directly or indirectly doing so. It's just a matter of preference. Some of us don't participate anymore even in other parts of the game because of it, would be my first chapter I'm skipping actually this year as paying that much for a single trials isn't my cup of tea currently. Would purchase next dungeon dlc though, don't even need details about it to make a decision.

It's also an existing thread on a matter. Seems large enough of a problem to get one, so argument about sizings is pretty irrelevant as discussion is already ongoing one for some time even without this particular place, it's just one of the mediums.

Lysette

Well, for ZOS this does not seem to be a matter of necessary action at all. Like ZOS_Kevin said, there is currently no intention to do anything about it. This thread is kind of a container to gather how people feel about it, just in case ZOS would decide to address this issue, what they currently don't nor intend to. So yeah, we got this thread, but it is not really a sign of urgency or that this is seen as a problem at all.

colossalvoids

No one here expects urgency especially knowing that they're planning for 1-2 years ahead including features etc. so it's at the every least years to be considered. Even PvP performance wasn't urgent for them, which killed that mode already for the most part without any sign of people going back if something would work out. A shame.

Still urgency, or sizing isn't for us to consider, we're giving feedback and they're deciding if it's worth or not, it's not up to us to control.

Lysette

You don't get what I try to suggest - if something would be done, I suggest that it is a feature, which is useful for nearly everyone beside newbies maybe. Not just a feature for the top 5% of players, but something where we can as well choose to just slightly increase difficulty where we think there should be more and lower it, where we consider it to be overdone. This would benefit nearly everyone - but it is most likely a slider-like approach, where we know already, that Rich Lambert doesn't like it - nevertheless, I can suggest it, even if it might not be implemented like this or at all.

Aardappelboom

Lysette wrote: »

And still newbies get themselves killed - because you know what is coming, they don't - for them it is a surprise and they might not know how to react to it at first. I agree though, that a flat decrease in outgoing damage and a slight increase in incoming damage might feel better (if it is optional, never forget, newbies get themselves killed by trash goblins).

Decrease in outgoing damage does just not have a large range to choose from - Mirri does about 700 minimal, so I guess the most we can eventually factor in is a decrease by 500 - leaving Mirri's standard bow at 200. That will not feel like she is helping anymore though and with a decrease in incoming damage she might not survive on many occasions and during her learning phase. She would need a health buff to get around this issue, because if she is dying more often than not, she will not be as fun and helpful as she currently is.

Increase in incoming damage - that has to be very carefully chosen - I guess there is the actual problem - because what you might consider to be just right, I will most likely see as insanely high. To find common ground here is very difficult. And if that option is not for me, I am against it - waste of time for just a few imo. It needs to benefit a larger crowd, if done at all.

And as far as rewards go - strictly no changes - you want this for challenge, for personal pleasure basically, you don't need better rewards on top of it imo.

While I appreciate feedback, you really did not read my post properly, you're in defense mode and I get you don't want overland to be more difficult but I explicitly stated that my post is subjective and I stated that the right way is for it to be entirely optional.

If anything my post indicates that a slider, with multiple options is very much within the graps of ZOS to develop and it would probably take them almost no effort to implement this seeing battle spirit already applies half of the mentioned buffs. (outgoing damage is halved throuhg battle spirit in PVP)

As for Miri, I didn't really change anything about her, sure I changed some skills but basically I left her untouched. It actually worked really well this way. The reason is simple, Mirri was designed for beginning players from the start, so she's pretty much fine, tbh I even find het useful in solo vet dungeons, so I don't see any reason to even touch companions at all, this is all just about the player.

Aardappelboom

LashanW wrote: »

Aardappelboom wrote: »

• I crafted basic lvl 10 weapons[/b] to really gimp my damage.
• I removed all armor and jewelery
• I removed all passives of every skill line, but I kept the morphs I liked and felt worked.
• I have a companion, Mirri, mostly as a healer. I set her up so she'd use her bow and couldn't use her skills otherwise I wasn't able to die once again.
• I removed all food buffs
• I removed all attribute points.

Interesting. Did you remove CP as well?
I really don't like the idea of removing sets. There's a lot of proc sets that can be super fun to use. Hmm I guess one could purposefully reconstruct them at low qualty, crap traits. Removing the enchantment is a problem tho. I think having a low level character is also needed to reconstruct things at low level. Crafting is fine ofc.

Oh, right! I forgot to mention, I removed everything from the red an blue tree, as for the green tree, I just picked whatever was interesting.

You are absolutely right though, why this is kind of a bandaid for me I really missed the tweaking part of my character to overcome a challenge, I didn't have any wiggle room because equiping anything made me stronger again. I thought about crafting low level set but I have dungeon sets for my build so I can't get them at lower lvl anymore since my character is CP 1300+, crafting them as level 1 might be fun, it's worth a try.

When thinking about how easy flat buffs and debuffs are to implement, this really might be a low effort, high gain kind of thing for ZOS to do. I really mean it when I say that the value of story content has increased a lot for me and I also really think ZOS does a very good job in creating these zones and stories, there's a lot of love from them in these things.

If anything, I would really love to get an insight in how much effort this would really take, I've been working as a product owner for different software solutions, like since I started working, so it's more out of curiosity at this point then to get a commitment on the feature. (still hoping you're keeping the team up to date about this topic @ZOS_Kevin)

KoIIegoIas

SilverBride wrote: »

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Zuboko wrote: »

I am going to be running an experiment. I am going to see how much of the main quest I can complete using only gear found in the tutorial dungeon.

You can complete all of it. This game has no demanding requirements for Overland. It's easy. You also can't unlearn the basics of combat like staying out of red, bashing, and interrupting. That's a good thing but all the more reason Overland's difficulty needs to be increased.

Overland difficulty does not need to be increased. A lot of players like it just as it is. Increasing the difficulty for everyone would be very unfair.

It's a minority who want more difficult overland, which is why a debuff and challenge banners are the only reasonable options.

You don't even have a specific source to call the people wich want harder Content the Minority, because it doesnt exsist. The only reliable source is that the Majority of people were against Cadwells Silver and Gold.

People wich are against any difficulty are actually the minority arguing against tons of tons of people, wich want more difficulty (Wich are the overwhelming Majority) of that over 3k comment Thread

@ZOS_RichLambert But people werent against harder Overland Content in general, because there is a big gap between the difficulty of Cadwells Silver + Gold and between Own Faction Overland, wich people had to complete before and they did enjoy that difficulty. Since all played it and nobody complained. You said it

[snip]

The Video from Daraklus on this Page (113) of the thread shows perfectly whats going on. And i totally can understand him, not wanna argue anymore because it seems you do not wish to argue in good faith. [snip]

I just can't take people seriously who are satisfied with the current difficulties. A difficulty wich doesnt change from lvl 1 to 50. A difficulty wich doesnt change with every new Zone DLC/Chapter. Its a frustrating circle over years of content releases.

Especially after getting so much evidence in form of youtube vids of how weak the overland content is. Killing Overland mobs without gear, cp is not hard for anyone out there for sure. There are no people wich didnt play skyrim / Oblivion / Morrowind and what not because easy difficulty was to hard. But easy difficulty of those singleplayergames were still harder than Eso Overland right now.

The people wanted get rid of Cadwells silver and gold. They got what they wanted. But @Zos nerfed Own faction Difficulty aswell, wich wasnt on cadwells silver gold niveau at all but still enjoyable. It was fun and just perfect. And they nerfed that difficulty aswell, without people asking for it. Why? That was the step to destroy overland niveau entirely.

Own faction difficulty of 2014 was just perfect. It wasnt too hard and it wasnt too easy. We dont even need instances. Just revert back to old own faction difficulty for all zones and everything would be fine.

@Daraklus Thank you a lot for leaving this video here. I will spread it in all Discords and communities in general i know to get more people involved into this thread. The more attention this gets, the better.

[edited for minor baiting]

spartaxoxo

I totally hear you on the difficulty thing. I like things to be more difficult. But you know, the data doesn’t lie. And we have never been more successful than we are today. And a lot of that has to do with just how much freedom players have to go and experience story.

People just did not like the extra difficulty in the story stuff. I get that there’s a lot of people that do like the harder difficulty, but a HUGE portion of our player base just wants to do story, and they don’t want to have to struggle with difficult things.”

That's a difficult one because difficulty is definitely subjective. We have millions of players that play The Elder Scrolls Online, and a large portion of them find the game hard and the Overland content challenging, especially as a new player when you don't have gold, all the gear, and Champion Points. Ultimately it comes down to, if we make the game harder, what are the incentives for players to play it at the harder level? That opens up a whole huge can of worms. I also look back and remember we had harder Overland content. We had Cadwell Silver, we had Cadwell Gold, and players really didn't like it. It was too hard for them, and when we did One Tamriel, we ripped all that out based on player feedback. Like, nobody did it. So it's a challenging subject and a difficult question to answer. All I can really say is we're definitely looking at it, but we don't have any major changes planned for the Overland difficulty."

-Rich Lambert

Lysette

You did not read properly as well @spartaxoxo - I would like something optional, which is as well useful for people like me, where I can slightly up the difficulty where I deem it appropriate and lower it, where I think it is overdone - overdone for my latency, that is. I cannot do hard content with latency spikes in the 700ms range. It would be much like it js in TES games, with a slider solution, where you can scale it yourself - won't happen most likely, but if we don't suggest it, it will certainly not happen. I want something where nearly everyone benefits from it - not just the top 5%.

As far as Mirri goes - I gave her an inferno staff and ninja jump plus fear ability - to me it feels like playing a new class, her fighting style with that is awesome and real fun.

colossalvoids

Not sure if they'll be aiming to satisfy everyone they would end up with a good solution. We got it with aw achieves this year which wasn't exactly what such people wanted and a nightmare for the other group. We also got features that are antiquities, companions or a card game incoming - none of them are something for a majority, those are really niche attempts and that's why vet overland debates are at fire - other minorities also want something once in a blue moon. Those are made that everyone can use it or try it, but a minority would actually enjoy and participate on a constant basis, it's not particularly bad but it's here and someone is over the moon with it no matter the hate from the other camps.

spartaxoxo

Lysette wrote: »

You did not read properly as well- I would like something optional, which is as well useful for people like me, where I can slightly up the difficulty where I deem it appropriate and lower it, where I think it is overdone - overdone for my latency, that is. I cannot do hard content with latency spikes in the 700ms range. It would be much like it js in TES games, with a slider solution, where you can scale it yourself - won't happen most likely, but if we don't suggest it, it will certainly not happen. I want something where nearly everyone benefits from it - not just the top 5%.

As far as Mirri goes - I gave her an inferno staff and ninja jump plus fear ability - to me it feels like playing a new class, her fighting style with that is awesome and real fun.

Most people don't like the increased difficulty, so any slider should be aimed at the people that do. Instead of trying to convince them with rewards or do something unsatisfying. The reason that Craglorn Overland is notably seldom used compared to other Overland zones is because it's too hard for the people who don't like harder stuff and too easy for those of us who do. Which satisfies nobody.

I do think they should have a difficulty slider, but it should start at the level that it makes things challenging for mid-tier vet players and increase in severity to vet trials. Mid tier vet players may have less than half the dps of the elites, but they are still more than triple the dps of the companions. This is notable because Companions were stated to be capped like 5-10k or something like that because anymore and they'd have started out dps'ing the majority of the playerbase.

I think it is pointless to make something for such players. They already find the game challenging enough to be engaging. And if they don't, they can just get better at the game.

colossalvoids

Just a small example of what I'm talking about. If well somehow get a slider solution I'd be using it, but would it be a solution aimed at me particularly who completed whole game couple of times and for a year or two mostly focused ingroup pve content? In questing I'm looking for danger and immersion. Second part would be definitely missing if I'd be going through menus to adjust it to the content I'm in to be on par with my expectations. It's kinda working solution that I won't enjoy having because one of the things gone missing.

My idea of actually seamless experience is something in lines of utilizing normal/veteran switch when you're going into delve or a quest specific zone, I'd wish all of them being solo or group instances depending if you're grouped or not yourself, at least for main quest. Also we already have banners and scrolls that can be utilised, power ups for decreasing difficulty on a go etc.

We also already have difficulties (health pools, phys/spell damage, defence etc.) in arenas, dungeons and trials to be copied, for example solo arena veteran mode for solo questing or a veteran dungeon/arena for group, so it's more or less what people can expect whilst not being something alien in terms of difficulty, just what you would expect when using such a switch for dungeons or trials. But that's just mine couple cents, already left my feedback long time ago via different means so my part is done.

spartaxoxo

colossalvoids wrote: »

Just a small example of what I'm talking about. If well somehow get a slider solution I'd be using it, but would it be a solution aimed at me particularly who completed whole game couple of times and for a year or two mostly focused ingroup pve content? In questing I'm looking for danger and immersion. Second part would be definitely missing if I'd be going through menus to adjust it to the content I'm in to be on par with my expectations. It's kinda working solution that I won't enjoy having because one of the things gone missing.

Have you gotten a chance to read about how LOTRO does it. They have a slider can set, and it puts more and more severe debuffs on them depending on the difficulty level decided. Mostly in the form of increasing the damage you take and decreasing the damage you deal with growing extremity. In addition to that however, they have it so that a handful of enemies will unleash special attacks on people with a higher difficulty setting.

In this way, they have managed to have multiple levels of difficulty. Players can just change it in their options as they see fit. I personally think that if ESO were to do it they could do that while also taking a page out of their own book. And they could add a few debuffs that are zone specific like for example taking continuous cold damage in Eastmarch similar to that debuff in New Life after you jump in the water.

Aardappelboom

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Have you gotten a chance to read about how LOTRO does it. They have a slider can set, and it puts more and more severe debuffs on them depending on the difficulty level decided. Mostly in the form of increasing the damage you take and decreasing the damage you deal with growing extremity. In addition to that however, they have it so that a handful of enemies will unleash special attacks on people with a higher difficulty setting.

In this way, they have managed to have multiple levels of difficulty. Players can just change it in their options as they see fit. I personally think that if ESO were to do it they could do that while also taking a page out of their own book. And they could add a few debuffs that are zone specific like for example taking continuous cold damage in Eastmarch similar to that debuff in New Life after you jump in the water.

I just wanted to agree @spartaxoxo , that's probably the way it should be, if they don't manage to add in the extra special attacks, i'd probably be fine as well.

Some zone specific debuffs could be fun, tbh the options are endless if they use a buff/debuff system, battle spirit is there, ready to be transformed into whatever is needed for this to happen.

This should be a QOL update for base game, it really is that simple.

Lysette

spartaxoxo wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

You did not read properly as well- I would like something optional, which is as well useful for people like me, where I can slightly up the difficulty where I deem it appropriate and lower it, where I think it is overdone - overdone for my latency, that is. I cannot do hard content with latency spikes in the 700ms range. It would be much like it js in TES games, with a slider solution, where you can scale it yourself - won't happen most likely, but if we don't suggest it, it will certainly not happen. I want something where nearly everyone benefits from it - not just the top 5%.

As far as Mirri goes - I gave her an inferno staff and ninja jump plus fear ability - to me it feels like playing a new class, her fighting style with that is awesome and real fun.

Most people don't like the increased difficulty, so any slider should be aimed at the people that do. Instead of trying to convince them with rewards or do something unsatisfying. The reason that Craglorn Overland is notably seldom used compared to other Overland zones is because it's too hard for the people who don't like harder stuff and too easy for those of us who do. Which satisfies nobody.

I do think they should have a difficulty slider, but it should start at the level that it makes things challenging for mid-tier vet players and increase in severity to vet trials. Mid tier vet players may have less than half the dps of the elites, but they are still more than triple the dps of the companions. This is notable because Companions were stated to be capped like 5-10k or something like that because anymore and they'd have started out dps'ing the majority of the playerbase.

I think it is pointless to make something for such players. They already find the game challenging enough to be engaging. And if they don't, they can just get better at the game.

hm, yeah, I guess you have a point there.

Daraklus

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

@Daraklus Thank you a lot for leaving this video here. I will spread it in all Discords and communities in general i know to get more people involved into this thread. The more attention this gets, the better.

Not a problem, I just hope you enjoyed the video, and thanks for watching.

Kamatsu

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

People wich are against any difficulty are actually the minority arguing against tons of tons of people, wich want more difficulty (Wich are the overwhelming Majority) of that over 3k comment Thread

Forum posters for/against something are not indicative of any minority/majority of wanting / not wanting something. Multiple MMO's over the years have stated that only around 15% of their players ever visit their official forums. A minority/majority of this small % doesn't mean they are indicative of the majority/minorty of players.

Multiple MMO's have also shown that the vast majority of their players are against doing hard/harder content.

- WoW dev's admitted than during Vanilla and BC only 6-7^ ever did any of their hard content, only 4-5% actually beat any of it, and less than 1% made it to and completed it all.

- ANET, dev's of Guild Wars 2, listed the the 'majority' voice that GW2 base game was too easy, and thus increased the difficulty for their 1st expansion. They then proceeded to have the highest ever 6 month loss of revenue that they ever had before or since( 67% vs other high of 42-43% loss). They admitted that the player pop has crashed hard and a high portion of players had left the game. They apologized, nerfed the hell out of the expansion... and never did that again (and never suffered such player or revenue loss again).

Trying to nitpick majority/minority isn't doing anyone favors TBH IMO. It's splitting hairs on #'s and %'s. What is more relevant IMO, and more useful to ESO's dev's is talk about what kind of things can be changed, what type of things can be looked at.... to keep those who like the current difficulty happy, while also trying to give those who want thigns harder something they'd enjoy more.

While the ESO dev's have said that right now there's no plans on changing things, they have also said they ARE keeping an eye on this thread for idea's, thoughts, seeing what players think can be done, etc.

I think a good thing is look at how other MMO's offer optional difficulty - such as LotRO's difficulty slider - and how they could be done in ESO for those who want it.

Elsonso

Kamatsu wrote: »

Trying to nitpick majority/minority isn't doing anyone favors TBH IMO. It's splitting hairs on #'s and %'s. What is more relevant IMO, and more useful to ESO's dev's is talk about what kind of things can be changed, what type of things can be looked at.... to keep those who like the current difficulty happy, while also trying to give those who want thigns harder something they'd enjoy more.

While the ESO dev's have said that right now there's no plans on changing things, they have also said they ARE keeping an eye on this thread for idea's, thoughts, seeing what players think can be done, etc.

I think a good thing is look at how other MMO's offer optional difficulty - such as LotRO's difficulty slider - and how they could be done in ESO for those who want it.

Hmm. The devs have said they are not looking for solutions from the players. They are looking for problems players are having; the devs will make their own solutions.

Lysette

It could as well be a technical issue to solve - who knows how scalable the mega server actually is. I think that regions are quite overcrowded during prime time - this might be intentionally this way, but it could as well be a technical issue, which doesn't allow to scale "phases" (instances) up that much. If it would be scalable enough, there could be vet instances with harder difficulty, but if there are technical limits to the mega server, that could be a hard problem to solve.

We all have experienced that zoning in takes much longer recently - why is that?- If there is a lack of instances, they have to stick more people into existing instances and to load balance that might take a bit longer. It could well be that there are technical limits in the way.