Overland Content Feedback Thread

Daraklus

SilverBride wrote: »

They have already stated that they aren't planning any major changes to overland. This could change in the future but I don't believe it's likely because it's not in line with the direction the game has been going since One Tamriel.

Then I guess I won't be playing.

[snip]
[edited for baiting & discussing moderator action]

Lysette

Well, I started a new character yesterday and refrained from using the support possible by my other characters and let her do it all on her own, relying just on what she has, can do and as well not jumping to friends, but getting to places using the boat network or just passing from one zone to another on roads.

Done like this the game feels very accessible for a new player,, but it is not too easy - actually it takes a while until that character can craft decent food and armor and weapons with traits on them. The game just appears to be easy, because you know your stuff and make use of the benefits of a nicely filled crafting bag and the comfort of having a bank full of useful stuff and especially money. A new character with no such support has quite a challenge, especially because he doesn't know anything yet and has to figure it out by him/herself.

It is nevertheless not hard as well, just not that laughably easy as some of you make it. Game difficulty is fine for new players - if it would be much harder, some would struggle, due to lack of knowledge how the game works basically. So I understand, why ZOS is keeping it at this difficulty - it is actually quite good and does not force people to run in groups, a new player who is just relying on his own accomplishments has a challenge, it is just not incredibly hard - it's decent, enjoyable difficulty, not stressful, but it has it's exciting moments nevertheless. I would say, the game feels really good, if adventure is what is expected, overland is not really a combat area and should not become one - it has some fighting, but isn't serious combat. Seen from the perspective of a new player, it is fine as it is - the game is very accessible, which is good for it's longevity.

Daraklus

Lysette wrote: »

Well, I started a new character yesterday and refrained from using the support possible by my other characters and let her do it all on her own, relying just on what she has, can do and as well not jumping to friends, but getting to places using the boat network or just passing from one zone to another on roads.

Done like this the game feels very accessible for a new player,, but it is not too easy - actually it takes a while until that character can craft decent food and armor and weapons with traits on them. The game just appears to be easy, because you know your stuff and make use of the benefits of a nicely filled crafting bag and the comfort of having a bank full of useful stuff and especially money. A new character with no such support has quite a challenge, especially because he doesn't know anything yet and has to figure it out by him/herself.

It is nevertheless not hard as well, just not that laughably easy as some of you make it. Game difficulty is fine for new players - if it would be much harder, some would struggle, due to lack of knowledge how the game works basically. So I understand, why ZOS is keeping it at this difficulty - it is actually quite good and does not force people to run in groups, a new player who is just relying on his own accomplishments has a challenge, it is just not incredibly hard - it's decent, enjoyable difficulty, not stressful, but it has it's exciting moments nevertheless. I would say, the game feels really good, if adventure is what is expected, overland is not really a combat area and should not become one - it has some fighting, but isn't serious combat. Seen from the perspective of a new player, it is fine as it is - the game is very accessible, which is good for it's longevity.

Ah yes, of course. If you forget testimonies from other newcomers who quit citing the game being easy, then this would be a believable position to have.

You seem to talk about "People thinking it's easy because of all the support", well I can tell you that even when using a fresh new account, without a single dime or material... It's still easy.

Just asked my girlfriend, and she made a fair observation: ESO is the only MMO game that has players on the forums defend the game's difficulty to the bitter end, and constantly talk about how it is not trivially easy. I think that should say something.

Lysette

Daraklus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, I started a new character yesterday and refrained from using the support possible by my other characters and let her do it all on her own, relying just on what she has, can do and as well not jumping to friends, but getting to places using the boat network or just passing from one zone to another on roads.

Done like this the game feels very accessible for a new player,, but it is not too easy - actually it takes a while until that character can craft decent food and armor and weapons with traits on them. The game just appears to be easy, because you know your stuff and make use of the benefits of a nicely filled crafting bag and the comfort of having a bank full of useful stuff and especially money. A new character with no such support has quite a challenge, especially because he doesn't know anything yet and has to figure it out by him/herself.

It is nevertheless not hard as well, just not that laughably easy as some of you make it. Game difficulty is fine for new players - if it would be much harder, some would struggle, due to lack of knowledge how the game works basically. So I understand, why ZOS is keeping it at this difficulty - it is actually quite good and does not force people to run in groups, a new player who is just relying on his own accomplishments has a challenge, it is just not incredibly hard - it's decent, enjoyable difficulty, not stressful, but it has it's exciting moments nevertheless. I would say, the game feels really good, if adventure is what is expected, overland is not really a combat area and should not become one - it has some fighting, but isn't serious combat. Seen from the perspective of a new player, it is fine as it is - the game is very accessible, which is good for it's longevity.

Ah yes, of course. If you forget testimonies from other newcomers who quit citing the game being easy, then this would be a believable position to have.

You seem to talk about "People thinking it's easy because of all the support", well I can tell you that even when using a fresh new account, without a single dime or material... It's still easy.

Just asked my girlfriend, and she made a fair observation: ESO is the only MMO game that has players on the forums defend the game's difficulty to the bitter end, and constantly talk about how it is not trivially easy. I think that should say something.

well. this my personal experience, given that I made use of my knowledge about combination of skills and armor/weapons, which give boni - a real new player might not have that information. And it still feels ok to me. But I am a role player, I rarely ever play combat heavy games and the amount of fps games, I played, is minor - because I experience those as stressful and I want ESO to be adventurous, but not combat-intensive - to me the game delivers what I expect difficulty-wise. It is in the end an RPG and plays like it. It is not an fps or game with a higher degree of combat challenge - it is about story-content in overland - for challenge you have vet dungeons, battle grounds and pvp - I think overland should stay clear of challenge and stay what it currently is - a story-heavy adventure, where every kind of character can have fun, just not an overpowered one.

Well, play through it without to die once - with the exception of the main story, where you will die - if you can do that, then it is easy. Otherwise it is not, because you would be a dead hero.

Elsonso

Daraklus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Well, I started a new character yesterday and refrained from using the support possible by my other characters and let her do it all on her own, relying just on what she has, can do and as well not jumping to friends, but getting to places using the boat network or just passing from one zone to another on roads.

Done like this the game feels very accessible for a new player,, but it is not too easy - actually it takes a while until that character can craft decent food and armor and weapons with traits on them. The game just appears to be easy, because you know your stuff and make use of the benefits of a nicely filled crafting bag and the comfort of having a bank full of useful stuff and especially money. A new character with no such support has quite a challenge, especially because he doesn't know anything yet and has to figure it out by him/herself.

It is nevertheless not hard as well, just not that laughably easy as some of you make it. Game difficulty is fine for new players - if it would be much harder, some would struggle, due to lack of knowledge how the game works basically. So I understand, why ZOS is keeping it at this difficulty - it is actually quite good and does not force people to run in groups, a new player who is just relying on his own accomplishments has a challenge, it is just not incredibly hard - it's decent, enjoyable difficulty, not stressful, but it has it's exciting moments nevertheless. I would say, the game feels really good, if adventure is what is expected, overland is not really a combat area and should not become one - it has some fighting, but isn't serious combat. Seen from the perspective of a new player, it is fine as it is - the game is very accessible, which is good for it's longevity.

Ah yes, of course. If you forget testimonies from other newcomers who quit citing the game being easy, then this would be a believable position to have.

I have watched new players who have streamed the game on Twitch. I have seen their mistakes, and I have seen them get killed by wolves in overland Glenumbra. One time, multiple times to the same wolf. I have heard them vocalize their opinions when this happens. Of course, random sampling on Twitch is not guaranteed to be a valid cross section, but all of them represent "newcomers" that visibly struggled with overland.

Of course, ZOS is going to have better data than isolated new player testimonials, first time playing Twitch streams, and expert players doing new player experience runs. I am not saying these have no value, but I am saying there is better data. I am sure that ZOS has metrics on overland deaths and knows better than anyone how hard, or easy, overland is.

Personally, I think that what keeps ESO afloat is the revolving door of new players that replace older players that move on. If harder overland retains older players, that is great. If adding that has the impact of reducing new player adoption, in any manner that causes new player adoption to drop below veteran player retention, then I trust that ZOS won't be doing it.

Tornaad

Earlier this year, I started to write an epic poem themed on ESO, that has been put on hold because of how hard it is to get inspiration from the story of the game. I want an increased difficulty so that I can finish my poem.

A Hero's Birth

What is this thing lost to dream and dust
Lost to mem'ry, feeling, passion, and thought
…
This thing … it has hands, feet, even has a face
This thing … lost to tides of time … is me
… but who am I … who is this forgotten thing
… I should be a hero … no … that's not right
…I need to become a hero … the hero
…
I remember … shadows … feelings... maybe thoughts
I remember... I remember the Nightmare
sculpted into flesh … sculpted into thought
sculpted into the perfection of pain
The Nightmare … place … person … maybe
It wasn't a dream … I wasn't asleep
…
He killed me … the nightmare killed me!
It tried to rebuild my mind, heart, body
rebuild me into a weapon … the weapon
But in that goal, he failed, he had to fail
he had to fail for his goal is destruction
and that destruction must come to all
including the wretched Nightmare himself
so even if it wins, it still loses
so even if it rises triumphant, it loses
for to gain all it longs for is to lose
…
But how to get there… how do I win?
I face the Nightmare and I am ... me
How do I win against that! How do I live!
How do I rise as triumphant as the sun!
I don't have that kind of strength … I need more
….
Now I remember! Yes! I can find the strength!
I have the chance to find the strength!
My work is not done, it has just begun.
I've been given a gift from on high
and I shall take that gift and I will fight
I will cast off the chains of hell and rise up!
I will scour every part of the land
I will find my power! I will find my strength!
and I will not rest until I've won
…
I have my goal, I have victory
so long as that quest is in my heart
I will march forward and find destiny
I will creep and crawl my way to victory
I will struggle and fight, bleed and even die
I will face the terrors of hell and rise
I will cast off the shackles of torment
escape the prison of emptiness
I cannot fail and I cannot be stopped
so long as I hold to hope, I win
That is his tool! That is his weapon! Despair…
So I will be his greatest foe. I am hope

A Hero's Rise

Time passed differently in there
hours felt like days ... felt like years
I could feel my soul in his wretched grasp
endlessly tearing bit by terrible bit
The tormentors watched carefully
looking for any sign of any weakness
looking for something to turn me to his.
And when he relented and cast me aside
threw me in a prison for eternity
hope rose again, showing me the way
…
Her first battle was truly glorious
she fought with the strength of a hundred giants
I just hobbled behind keeping them dead
I barely had strength to lift a sword
but I had to triumph, I have a mission
She too had a mission driving her forward
driving her to triumph over endless hordes
And just as victory seemed certain
I was back in chains shackled to a wall
my companion lay lifeless on the floor


He took me to the edge of death
he took me so close to death
I could feel deaths bony fingers
grasping 'round my neck
...
I will not fail
I cannot fail
too much is riding on this
too many are relying on me
...
then when I learned he was just a peon
I learned fear.
I thought I had conquered that beast
I thought I was the master of fear
but seeing how powerful his lord was
showed me I had never tasted fear
...
I will not fail
I cannot fail
too much is riding on this
too many are relying on me
...
so I spit out the blood and mucus
lodged in my throat
cutting off the air trying to flee in terror
and rose up to fight again
death's fingers still grasping 'round my neck

Please, give me a game that inspires me like Elder Scrolls games have done for 20 years.

SilverBride

Elsonso wrote: »

Personally, I think that what keeps ESO afloat is the revolving door of new players that replace older players that move on. If harder overland retains older players, that is great. If adding that has the impact of reducing new player adoption, in any manner that causes new player adoption to drop below veteran player retention, then I trust that ZOS won't be doing it.

All older players are not moving on. I have played every day for a few years now and am not going anywhere.

It's been pointed out that a lot of players come when there is new content, play awhile then leave until the next new thing, so there is a steady influx of players coming and going, both old and new.

All types of players move on for various reasons. Not every game is well suited for every player no matter what their skill or experience.

And for every older player who would stay because of a harder overland there would be many who would leave for that same reason. Not every powerful and well geared player wants every single aspect of the game to be a challenge.

Lysette

I did Mirri's initial quest lately several times, to get my NA characters Mirri as well - playing now mainly on NA, because that is better suited to my playing hours and I can experience quests nearly uninterrupted. Mirri's quest though is always busy and I've seen a couple of times groups of 3+ low level players doing this quest together to get Mirri. My new Orc did this quest on her own at level 14, it can be done solo even by a new player, but that many do this quest in groups, implies to me, that this quest doesn't seem to feel easy to those players - why group up to do it otherwise?

Daraklus

Lysette wrote: »

for challenge you have vet dungeons, battle grounds and pvp

Right then... Follow with me on this one:
What if I DON'T want to do dungeons constantly in order to have some level of engaging content to play with?
What if I am EXHAUSTED from doing Maelstrom Arena for the 50th time, because it provides a level of thought beyond "Press 1 against enemy and win"?
And no thanks on the PvP side of things, because the balancing there is naff.

So, what are my options then? To just quit, not play the game? Well I want to play ESO, and there is a lot more to the game than just running dungeons 24/7. I don't deserve to go out in to the world, do quests and fight monsters while feeling like my brain is being engaged with?
[snip]

SilverBride wrote: »

And for every older player who would stay because of a harder overland there would be many who would leave for that same reason. Not every powerful and well geared player wants every single aspect of the game to be a challenge.

[snip]

Zuboko wrote: »

Please, give me a game that inspires me like Elder Scrolls games have done for 20 years.

Unfortunately you won't get one. Better to wait and hope for TES6 to come out soon, or at least look for mods for Skyrim that expands on the world.

[edited for baiting]

Lysette

Your option is to play the game like others do it as well - without to overpower yourself - then it is very enjoyable.

Daraklus

Lysette wrote: »

I did Mirri's initial quest lately several times, to get my NA characters Mirri as well - playing now mainly on NA, because that is better suited to my playing hours and I can experience quests nearly uninterrupted. Mirri's quest though is always busy and I've seen a couple of times groups of 3+ low level players doing this quest together to get Mirri. My new Orc did this quest on her own at level 14, it can be done solo even by a new player, but that many do this quest in groups, implies to me, that this quest doesn't seem to feel easy to those players - why group up to do it otherwise?

Okay, a few questions:

What makes you so sure that they were in a party together because they couldn't do the quest by themselves? Last I checked, the game has shared everything and can pretty much be done without grouping up with anyone.

How are you so certain that they were not in the same area and were doing the quest? Doesn't sound like it was an instanced area where only people in a party can go there.

[snip]

Lysette wrote: »

Your option is to play the game like others do it as well - without to overpower yourself - then it is very enjoyable.

If I'm not progressing my character, them I'm not really playing an MMORPG, am I?
So. Not an option.

[edited for baiting]

Lysette

Daraklus wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

I did Mirri's initial quest lately several times, to get my NA characters Mirri as well - playing now mainly on NA, because that is better suited to my playing hours and I can experience quests nearly uninterrupted. Mirri's quest though is always busy and I've seen a couple of times groups of 3+ low level players doing this quest together to get Mirri. My new Orc did this quest on her own at level 14, it can be done solo even by a new player, but that many do this quest in groups, implies to me, that this quest doesn't seem to feel easy to those players - why group up to do it otherwise?

Okay, a few questions:

What makes you so sure that they were in a party together because they couldn't do the quest by themselves? Last I checked, the game has shared everything and can pretty much be done without grouping up with anyone.

How are you so certain that they were not in the same area and were doing the quest? Doesn't sound like it was an instanced area where only people in a party can go there.

[snip]

I assumed it based on their movement pattern, that they were following a leader. If everyone would be on it's own, it wouldn't be that coherent. If they would struggle on their own, no idea really, it can be done at their level on their own as well, I did it without problems with my new Orc. But then again, I know what I'm doing, a newbie group is likely to not have much of a clue. My level 14 Orc NB was in heavy armor, 2h with buff food, 1.4k health regeneration and 27k, 30k, 33k stats - it's clear that I go through this quest like a hot knife through butter - but the same doesn't seem to be true for real newbies.

[edited to remove quote]

Daraklus

And I played on a fresh new account, just for the purpose of playing like a complete and utter noob (Using light attacks, spamming abilities without much comboing, mismatched gear), got to level 5 before I got completely bored because of how easy everything was.

And do I need to remind you that I had someone play with me who fell asleep sitting next to me because of how boring the game got due to its triviality? And it was someone I was trying to get into the game?

Lysette

Daraklus wrote: »

And I played on a fresh new account, just for the purpose of playing like a complete and utter noob (Using light attacks, spamming abilities without much comboing, mismatched gear), got to level 5 before I got completely bored because of how easy everything was.

And do I need to remind you that I had someone play with me who fell asleep sitting next to me because of how boring the game got due to its triviality? And it was someone I was trying to get into the game?

See, it is simple really - the game might just not be for her, she expects something what the game isn't and all the rest doesn't seem to convince her, that it is worth playing. If it is just boring to her, then it is just not the game for her.

Ermiq

Lysette wrote: »

Your option is to play the game like others do it as well - without to overpower yourself - then it is very enjoyable.

Hey, I have a question: how would I not overpower myself even further, given that I already play naked with nothing but a weapon (no armor, no jewelry, no CP, no food, no potions), just a regular weapon I get from drops/quests.
Started several new characters and played like this: a warden, a sorcerer, a nightblade.
And it is actually very easy to do quests.
To be fair, I must say that newer chapters provide very tough fights in public dungeons, and I actually feel like I need some help there. The Blackwood public dungeon was like that. Had to leave it on my stamina Warden lvl 10. It's called 'public' for a reason. At least for a naked character.
But when it comes to vanilla zones, public dungeons are more or less just a good tough fight for me alone. And all the delves and solo quests in any zone are really super easy, where I just sometimes need to use some healing ability and just understand the game basics: restore resources with HA, block/bash the charged attacks, sometimes rolldodge. 90% of the time I just casually stand still while killing regular enemies though.

Lysette

Ermiq wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Your option is to play the game like others do it as well - without to overpower yourself - then it is very enjoyable.

Hey, I have a question: how would I not overpower myself even further, given that I already play naked with nothing but a weapon (no armor, no jewelry, no CP, no food, no potions), just a regular weapon I get from drops/quests.
Started several new characters and played like this: a warden, a sorcerer, a nightblade.
And it is actually very easy to do quests.
To be fair, I must say that newer chapters provide very tough fights in public dungeons, and I actually feel like I need some help there. The Blackwood public dungeon was like that. Had to leave it on my stamina Warden lvl 10. It's called 'public' for a reason. At least for a naked character.
But when it comes to vanilla zones, public dungeons are more or less just a good tough fight for me alone. And all the delves and solo quests in any zone are really super easy, where I just sometimes need to use some healing ability and just understand the game basics: restore resources with HA, block/bash the charged attacks, sometimes rolldodge. 90% of the time I just casually stand still while killing regular enemies though.

That is not how I experience the game - my level 15 Orc NB cannot do public dungeons on her own - she can somewhat with the help of Mirri and fully armored and buffed with 3-stats food, but that feels like a challenge to me. Otherwise the game feels ok to me difficulty-wise, but I do not expect to be challenged, but to have an enjoyable time in Tamriel. Combat is not my focus in this game, even I have to fight in pretty much every quest - but this is not why I'm playing ESO.

If it would be about combat, I wouldn't play it, because I dislike the whole system with it's ridiculous focus on min/max stats and gear sets. Not to talk about that latency of 360ms doesn't offer me all the combat options in time, so I have to stand in red quite often, because I cannot escape it in time. You forget about that it is an international game and you cannot assume everyone to have less 100ms latency - a lot have latency always shown in red - the game plays differently with high latency.

Ermiq

Lysette wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Your option is to play the game like others do it as well - without to overpower yourself - then it is very enjoyable.

Hey, I have a question: how would I not overpower myself even further, given that I already play naked with nothing but a weapon (no armor, no jewelry, no CP, no food, no potions), just a regular weapon I get from drops/quests.
Started several new characters and played like this: a warden, a sorcerer, a nightblade.
And it is actually very easy to do quests.
To be fair, I must say that newer chapters provide very tough fights in public dungeons, and I actually feel like I need some help there. The Blackwood public dungeon was like that. Had to leave it on my stamina Warden lvl 10. It's called 'public' for a reason. At least for a naked character.
But when it comes to vanilla zones, public dungeons are more or less just a good tough fight for me alone. And all the delves and solo quests in any zone are really super easy, where I just sometimes need to use some healing ability and just understand the game basics: restore resources with HA, block/bash the charged attacks, sometimes rolldodge. 90% of the time I just casually stand still while killing regular enemies though.

That is not how I experience the game - my level 15 Orc NB cannot do public dungeons on her own - she can somewhat with the help of Mirri and fully armored and buffed with 3-stats food, but that feels like a challenge to me. Otherwise the game feels ok to me difficulty-wise, but I do not expect to be challenged, but to have an enjoyable time in Tamriel. Combat is not my focus in this game, even I have to fight in pretty much every quest - but this is not why I'm playing ESO.

If it would be about combat, I wouldn't play it, because I dislike the whole system with it's ridiculous focus on min/max stats and gear sets. Not to talk about that latency of 360ms doesn't offer me all the combat options in time, so I have to stand in red quite often, because I cannot escape it in time. You forget about that it is an international game and you cannot assume everyone to have less 100ms latency - a lot have latency always shown in red - the game plays differently with high latency.

Well. Okay, probably with constant 360ms latency it is harder. I don't have <100ms either though. My regular latency is 160-190ms and it goes up to 300-500 from time to time for 10-30 seconds.

Lysette

Ermiq wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Ermiq wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Your option is to play the game like others do it as well - without to overpower yourself - then it is very enjoyable.

Hey, I have a question: how would I not overpower myself even further, given that I already play naked with nothing but a weapon (no armor, no jewelry, no CP, no food, no potions), just a regular weapon I get from drops/quests.
Started several new characters and played like this: a warden, a sorcerer, a nightblade.
And it is actually very easy to do quests.
To be fair, I must say that newer chapters provide very tough fights in public dungeons, and I actually feel like I need some help there. The Blackwood public dungeon was like that. Had to leave it on my stamina Warden lvl 10. It's called 'public' for a reason. At least for a naked character.
But when it comes to vanilla zones, public dungeons are more or less just a good tough fight for me alone. And all the delves and solo quests in any zone are really super easy, where I just sometimes need to use some healing ability and just understand the game basics: restore resources with HA, block/bash the charged attacks, sometimes rolldodge. 90% of the time I just casually stand still while killing regular enemies though.

That is not how I experience the game - my level 15 Orc NB cannot do public dungeons on her own - she can somewhat with the help of Mirri and fully armored and buffed with 3-stats food, but that feels like a challenge to me. Otherwise the game feels ok to me difficulty-wise, but I do not expect to be challenged, but to have an enjoyable time in Tamriel. Combat is not my focus in this game, even I have to fight in pretty much every quest - but this is not why I'm playing ESO.

If it would be about combat, I wouldn't play it, because I dislike the whole system with it's ridiculous focus on min/max stats and gear sets. Not to talk about that latency of 360ms doesn't offer me all the combat options in time, so I have to stand in red quite often, because I cannot escape it in time. You forget about that it is an international game and you cannot assume everyone to have less 100ms latency - a lot have latency always shown in red - the game plays differently with high latency.

Well. Okay, probably with constant 360ms latency it is harder. I don't have <100ms either though. My regular latency is 160-190ms and it goes up to 300-500 from time to time for 10-30 seconds.

That is why Mirri is a real help to me, she doesn't have this delay and because I armed her with an inferno staff, she gets enemies off me, who immediately jumped on me - her first attack is with staff and that staff is pushing enemies back, a fun element to have. Mirri is as well jumping on enemies, so she gets enemies off me and is jumping behind enemy lines and fights from there - she is wonderful actually, she can be snarky to me all she wants, I still adore her fighting with me.

Lysette

Tbh I have no clue how you do it - if you have no jewelry, no food, no potion, no armor - your health regeneration should be lass than 300 every 2 seconds, that is less 150 per second. So you basically rely on avoiding getting hit. Ok, you didn't say you are not using mundus stones, so you could eventually have like 550 health regen with steed every 2 seconds, stil just 275 per second. So is it all about getting out of harm's way basically?- Something I cannot really do properly with my latency. Sometimes block works, sometimes it doesn't, sometimes I roll dodge in time, sometimes I don't, that is not reliable in my game play, I have to cater for tanking all incoming damage - and that has it's limits.

LashanW

Lysette wrote: »

Not to talk about that latency of 360ms doesn't offer me all the combat options in time, so I have to stand in red quite often, because I cannot escape it in time. You forget about that it is an international game and you cannot assume everyone to have less 100ms latency - a lot have latency always shown in red - the game plays differently with high latency.

In my experience even endgame PvE is playable around ~400 ping. It's not smooth, not very fun because you feel a significant delay with every action, especially barswaps, but still playable. Can be pretty risky tho.
I recently did Sunspire last boss hardmode portals at around ~390 ping and managed to do it without a wipe. (this particular fight involves doing high damage to a stationary enemy with the help of 2 other players while following several unforgiving mechanics and constantly moving around because of dangerous red aoes, it also need some coordination with the raid lead via voice chat. You have 90 seconds)
I do Sunspire trial on hardmode every week (Godslayer progression) and my ping is generally ~330ms. (honestly it can be anywhere in 300-400, have seen it going near 500 on recent occasions)
It's frustrating sometimes and I absolutely hate the PC-EU server for its performance, but your ping is ok for PvE.

Lysette wrote: »

So you basically rely on avoiding getting hit. Ok, you didn't say you are not using mundus stones, so you could eventually have like 550 health regen with steed every 2 seconds, stil just 275 per second. So is it all about getting out of harm's way basically?

When I was playing a new character on PC-NA, I didn't bother much about avoiding attacks apart from blocking heavies, never even looked at health recovery. I just relied on healing abilities that work passively when I deal damage (sorc with class spammable and Blood magic passive and later surge). Pretty much every class has access to some way of dealing damage while getting healed at the same time and this can be obtained pretty early on. (For example strife skill from Nightblades, or wardens with class spammable and Bond with Nature passive). Also everyone starts out with the skill soul trap unlocked from level 1 irrc. Level it up and morph it to consuming trap and you have a skill that restores a lot of health and all resources if any affected enemy dies. Stamina weapon skills also a few such helpful skills.

Once you unlock a damage shield/ active heal skill, risks in quests are pretty much gone.

k9mouse

I like how hard the overland is now. Some days, I just want walk around and not looking for a challenge and days I can found my challenges in other parts of the game.

I like to do content solo almost like single player game; however, I also enjoy talking chat.

I enjoy taken a WB solo, but if I need help I can get it. I prefer not too.

I think it is a good balance now. I playing ESO since Beta. To hard content will drive players away.

Back in old days, Craglorn was way way to hard to play. So glad overland is not like that now.

Lysette

LashanW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Not to talk about that latency of 360ms doesn't offer me all the combat options in time, so I have to stand in red quite often, because I cannot escape it in time. You forget about that it is an international game and you cannot assume everyone to have less 100ms latency - a lot have latency always shown in red - the game plays differently with high latency.

In my experience even endgame PvE is playable around ~400 ping. It's not smooth, not very fun because you feel a significant delay with every action, especially barswaps, but still playable. Can be pretty risky tho.
I recently did Sunspire last boss hardmode portals at around ~390 ping and managed to do it without a wipe. (this particular fight involves doing high damage to a stationary enemy with the help of 2 other players while following several unforgiving mechanics and constantly moving around because of dangerous red aoes, it also need some coordination with the raid lead via voice chat. You have 90 seconds)
I do Sunspire trial on hardmode every week (Godslayer progression) and my ping is generally ~330ms. (honestly it can be anywhere in 300-400, have seen it going near 500 on recent occasions)
It's frustrating sometimes and I absolutely hate the PC-EU server for its performance, but your ping is ok for PvE.

Lysette wrote: »

So you basically rely on avoiding getting hit. Ok, you didn't say you are not using mundus stones, so you could eventually have like 550 health regen with steed every 2 seconds, stil just 275 per second. So is it all about getting out of harm's way basically?

When I was playing a new character on PC-NA, I didn't bother much about avoiding attacks apart from blocking heavies, never even looked at health recovery. I just relied on healing abilities that work passively when I deal damage (sorc with class spammable and Blood magic passive and later surge). Pretty much every class has access to some way of dealing damage while getting healed at the same time and this can be obtained pretty early on. (For example strife skill from Nightblades, or wardens with class spammable and Bond with Nature passive). Also everyone starts out with the skill soul trap unlocked from level 1 irrc. Level it up and morph it to consuming trap and you have a skill that restores a lot of health and all resources if any affected enemy dies. Stamina weapon skills also a few such helpful skills.

Once you unlock a damage shield/ active heal skill, risks in quests are pretty much gone.

This is basically what I do with my NBs - shadow has this shadow barrier passive, which goes well with dark shadow morph, providing me with a lasting damage shield. I use as well consuming trap like you suggested. I have the steed mundus stone and heavy armor, so my health generation is in general not bad and with good food, I have it even with younger players around 1.3k health regen, dependent on if I have health or stamina regen on my jewelry.

So overall even my new character can do pretty much every normal content, as she should, it is the very idea of "One Tamriel" to be able to - public dungeons are problematic though, because by reasons I don't really know, my latency spikes there up to around 700ms, and without the help of Mirri I would be lost there. My graphic card is the next problem, it's an older one and it gets choked by too many particles - so many enemies all bashing on me with huge amounts of particles and my chances to react properly are going down the drain.

My question was not, how to do it with gear and stuff, but how he does it "naked" without potions and food. That sounds absolutely fishy to me, but maybe I have to learn something here and would like to know this "secret".

LashanW

Lysette wrote: »

My question was not, how to do it with gear and stuff, but how he does it "naked" without potions and food. That sounds absolutely fishy to me, but maybe I have to learn something here and would like to know this "secret".

My answer didn't include any gear, food or potions or CP. It only involves using skills and passives. Skills require no gear (apart from equipping a weapon for weapon skills, and the fellow did say he had a weapon equipped).
Atleast that how my new character at NA server worked. Didn't have any good gear, food, potions CP etc etc. But anyone can slot skills. Just need skill points and knowing how to use those skills.

Lysette

LashanW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

My question was not, how to do it with gear and stuff, but how he does it "naked" without potions and food. That sounds absolutely fishy to me, but maybe I have to learn something here and would like to know this "secret".

My answer didn't include any gear, food or potions or CP. It only involves using skills and passives. Skills require no gear (apart from equipping a weapon for weapon skills, and the fellow did say he had a weapon equipped).
Atleast that how my new character at NA server worked. Didn't have any good gear, food, potions CP etc etc. But anyone can slot skills. Just need skill points and knowing how to use those skills.

Yes, but for example shadow barrier - each piece of heavy armor is increasing the duration of that shield - it goes well together with dark shadow, but it is just 5 seconds long, if I wouldn't have heavy armor equipped. I agree though, that most of the damage comes from skills and not from weapons.

I'm as well not the most twitchy type of player, I like spells lasting for a while, I dislike the twitchy nature of ESO combat a lot, it is especially awful with high latency - because I'm already 1 or 2 skills ahead when I see the former one firing - this delay is totally confusing and reacting to attacks is hard, if they hit me before I can even see them coming. So even those visual clues are not that helpful, because I recognize them too late whenever my latency spikes.

This said, I'm fine now with Mirri - she is taking care of what I cannot see in time by pushing the enemy away from me with her inferno staff. That staff is great in many ways, f.e. it interrupts heavy attacks in progress quite well - and Mirri is really good and quick with her staff.

Ermiq

Lysette wrote: »

LashanW wrote: »

Lysette wrote: »

Not to talk about that latency of 360ms doesn't offer me all the combat options in time, so I have to stand in red quite often, because I cannot escape it in time. You forget about that it is an international game and you cannot assume everyone to have less 100ms latency - a lot have latency always shown in red - the game plays differently with high latency.

In my experience even endgame PvE is playable around ~400 ping. It's not smooth, not very fun because you feel a significant delay with every action, especially barswaps, but still playable. Can be pretty risky tho.
I recently did Sunspire last boss hardmode portals at around ~390 ping and managed to do it without a wipe. (this particular fight involves doing high damage to a stationary enemy with the help of 2 other players while following several unforgiving mechanics and constantly moving around because of dangerous red aoes, it also need some coordination with the raid lead via voice chat. You have 90 seconds)
I do Sunspire trial on hardmode every week (Godslayer progression) and my ping is generally ~330ms. (honestly it can be anywhere in 300-400, have seen it going near 500 on recent occasions)
It's frustrating sometimes and I absolutely hate the PC-EU server for its performance, but your ping is ok for PvE.

Lysette wrote: »

So you basically rely on avoiding getting hit. Ok, you didn't say you are not using mundus stones, so you could eventually have like 550 health regen with steed every 2 seconds, stil just 275 per second. So is it all about getting out of harm's way basically?

When I was playing a new character on PC-NA, I didn't bother much about avoiding attacks apart from blocking heavies, never even looked at health recovery. I just relied on healing abilities that work passively when I deal damage (sorc with class spammable and Blood magic passive and later surge). Pretty much every class has access to some way of dealing damage while getting healed at the same time and this can be obtained pretty early on. (For example strife skill from Nightblades, or wardens with class spammable and Bond with Nature passive). Also everyone starts out with the skill soul trap unlocked from level 1 irrc. Level it up and morph it to consuming trap and you have a skill that restores a lot of health and all resources if any affected enemy dies. Stamina weapon skills also a few such helpful skills.

Once you unlock a damage shield/ active heal skill, risks in quests are pretty much gone.

My question was not, how to do it with gear and stuff, but how he does it "naked" without potions and food. That sounds absolutely fishy to me, but maybe I have to learn something here and would like to know this "secret".

Well, if it sounds fishy, I made a video. Here I wasn't actually ready for public dungeons. I didn't activate any useful passives, skills are not morphed yet. I was doing regular quests with this setup and I just didn't see any point to spend skillpoints on passives and morphs. In the public dungeon I certainly started to feel the pressure, and I would change the skills and would use passives if I came in the dungeon by my regular adventure route. But I just jumped there for the video.
You might notice that the Warden's bear helps a lot by distracting the enemies. I think I would have more troubles without him. At least, until I unlock more useful skills, and use an efficient weapon/stats setup. For now I just use a sword with magicka skills which is obviously not efficient at all.

https://youtu.be/dZ4dDa5TDQg

KoIIegoIas

The problem with extreme easy and boring overland content is the following: people dislikesd cadwells silver and gold because it was to hard to do it again after they did it once. For the majority.
Then they felt released and happy that they experienced that hell of a ride.

When they did it the first time the majority of people enjoyed the hard content. But doing that whole process again, because the wish of playing the other classes, was an insane pain in the a**.

I was one of them. Zos solution was ''One Tamriel'' with same easy difficulty for everyone and no instances between factions.

1. The problem to play that hard silver + gold content again for each new char.

2. The instances between factions made the overland feel a bit empty.

The instance semi emptyness was fine for me because i had a singleplayer feeling like skyrim etc. and in case i need help with a quest, there are still some people to get help, because its a mmorpg. For me it was perfect. So my Problem was just 1.

That are the two reasons people disliked cadwells silver and gold.

The state now is some big antagonist of a questline gets hyped up but in the end he is dead under a minute if not less and he hits like a wet noodle. Then people are just left totally disappointed. I personally know like 30 and more people wich quit the game because of that.

I tried to play with just cp disabled. It was still to easy and then i tried only white weapons and still *** easy. I never experience something like that in any game mmorpg rpg i played in 20 years.

Rich lambert said people disliked cadwells silver and gold, so they fixed its difficulty with one tamriel.
But rich lambert also said that tons of tons of people enjoyed own faction overland content until molag (molag bal included) at realease. The difficulty of own faction overland content was very good. Not as hard as cadwells, but still very good to enjoy for almost everyone.

What leads to the main Problem. @ZOS didnt only get rid of cadwells silver +gold difficulty, wich the people complained about.

The also hard nerfed the own faction difficulty, what nobody in the playerbase wanted.
And because of that we just have this easy fart dry overland content. Where we can just experience this (i dont even know how to call this garbage), wich are zero engaging at all. Look at molag bal Fight before and after the overnerf. Its just a second hand embarresment. Revert difficulty back to own faction difficulty would solve the whole problem.

@ZOS overnerfed the overland content even below own faction difficulty, what nobody asked for. They asked only to nerf cadwells silver and gold.

I stopped overland entirely since murkmire, because there is no reason for me to do this. Its no fun at all and it gives me just 2014 flashbacks when questing actually was exciting. With every new overland content patch i would love to enjoy the queslines, but it gets more and more frustrating, because i know exactly that it will be boring af because there is not even close the need of skill to kill anything.
Not even the Elder Scrolls singleplayer games on easiest difficulty were close to easy as ESO is right now.

Its just a disgrace and a big waste in my eyes and it makes me just so sad.

SilverBride

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The problem with extreme easy and biring overland content is the following: people dislikesd cadwells silver and gold because it was to hard to do it again after they did it once. For the majority.
Then they felt released and happy that they experienced that hell of a ride.

When they did it the first time the majority of people enjoyed the hard content.

That is the opposite of what Rich Lambert stated. He said that 2/3 of the game (Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold) were never played because people just didn't want difficulty in the story. This still holds true today for the majority.

From my own experience I completed it on one character but hated it so much I never did it again. I didn't feel any sense of release or happiness.

ZOS_GregoryV

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Parasaurolophus

SilverBride wrote: »

KoIIegoIas wrote: »

The problem with extreme easy and biring overland content is the following: people dislikesd cadwells silver and gold because it was to hard to do it again after they did it once. For the majority.
Then they felt released and happy that they experienced that hell of a ride.

When they did it the first time the majority of people enjoyed the hard content.

That is the opposite of what Rich Lambert stated. He said that 2/3 of the game (Cadwell's Silver and Cadwell's Gold) were never played because people just didn't want difficulty in the story. This still holds true today for the majority.

From my own experience I completed it on one character but hated it so much I never did it again. I didn't feel any sense of release or happiness.

This despite the fact that the difficult overland never existed. Mobs of your level are always the same in strength. You were only required to raise your level in time. And the difference between the levels was very big. Literally, mobs 3-4 levels higher were already a big problem. So the increase in difficulty was steep, but linear. Yes, I understand how you cited an old post by one player complaining about not being able to complete some delves. But this is just one example. And we don't know the whole picture. But I'm willing to bet that most casual gamers just couldn't match the level, which made the game too difficult for them. I myself, when doing alliance quests, often stopped to farm experience, because I didn’t have enough for a comfortable game further.

spartaxoxo

Parasaurolophus wrote: »

And we don't know the whole picture.

But we do know the devs flat out stated they changed the game to make it easier. I think it's pretty obvious it was nerfed, personally.

Regardless tho the game has changed a lot since then. Would probably still be too easy now imo