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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668104/
800k people don't seem to mind difficult overworld
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Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS overreacted with the change they made to overland mobs by making them all scale with the player and/or vise verse (because I know someone will point out it's the other way around even though it doesn't matter).
They jumped from one end of the spectrum to the other very drastically and basically relaunched the game with One TaSilverBride wrote: »Or another option could be to just make mobs tougher overall and do more damage to everyone and offer a buff for those that want to make it easier for lower levels. As some people really are no interested in the combat and just want to read dialogue, you could offer them a buff potion that makes them immune to being killed or makes it so mobs wont attack you. That way it wouldnt matter how tough the overland mobs are made.
So players who are perfectly happy with overland quests and mobs should be buffed to make them invincible so they won't complain when overland difficulty is increased to please a small minority of the playerbase? Where is our engaging combat then?
So. Getting back to this. After spending some time in New World, (which by the way I have to make this short cause I need to get back soon) I'm understanding like... alot. Its really helped me in the way in which I look at MMOs.
However. I don't think anyone wants invincible mobs. C'mon now.
What do we want.. is *PROGRESSION*
Ok. -Progression- Your skills should matter, the choices you make should matter. Granted, there are mobs in New World, like Wolves, that are hard as hell in the beginning yet, over time, they become a cake walk to take down and then those mobs level with you as you travel to other areas.
The mistake ZOS made from One Tam, is they stripped the Progression from the game. It got boring after that. Its as simple as that. If I don't need to care about something then it forgettable and not worth my time. And all of ESO content is most certainly NOT like that ... but there is a notable lack of progression in ESO.
One interesting note though, its so interesting how certain ppl in ESO Cyrodiil PvP were always making demands for ppl they don't like to leave the server, because that was 'their' home. Like they owned the server. This happened frequently on Blackreach. So many times I was advised to change my faction or leave 'their' server. In New World it's totally different. We need everyone and we just don't have this problem and it feels so good. Especially since there is also no Dark Convergence or bombers in New World to speak of. It's just great.
Anyways my Faction needs me... time to get back. Peace
Sounds like you want what I'm proposing. Overland PvP flagging that debuffs players vs mobs if they're flagged.
This is very much unlikely to happen. Even Rich stated that it was a very conscious decision they made in the early planning of ESO that there would be no PvP in the open world. It is why they created Cyrodiil. Probably a wise decision since even New World went from hardcore full-time PvP and made it optional and softened it up heavily to entice the larger Pve crowns and because they could not find a way to cease the PvP griefing.
Seems to be working in the other action MMORPG. If you're flagged for PvP, expect people to attack you at any given point, meaning that PvP "griefing" doesn't exist. I do not get this argument because you voluntarily flagged for PvP.
A lot of things work in other MMORPGs and fortunately they are not all the same. When a game is as successful as ESO is then it becomes more important to the core foundation of the vision that has made it flourish and this is one of those important design aspects.
Also, Zenimax had considered an aspect of PvP in the open world with the justice system and ended up tossing that idea out the door as well.
I respect that you have the opinion that you want open-world PvP throughout ESO and that is great. I am merely pointing out the devs have made it fairly clear this will not happen and considering how prosperous the game is there is no reason for them to consider such a major change.
In the end, your argument is not with me but with trying to convince ESO they should copy what other MMORPGs do instead of continuing with the design that has made the game an amazing success. That is how Rich sees the actual topic of this thread and it would be the same for your suggestion. Good luck.Edited by Amottica on 13 October 2021 15:513 -
Callosum✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
Your interpretation is so insanely biased that it hurts. If this is actually the picture of how the player base fell it is a massive problem. Only 52% of players fell like the quest lines and final boss are engaging. Seriously, can't you see this? This is where ESO differentiate from their competition. I unsubscribed last week because of this problem and I doubt that I am the only one.9 -
tonyblack✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
50% is not most players, just half of them. With other half unsatisfied. I’m sure if results would be different and slightly in favor of second option then it would be “forums are not representative of in game population and consist of pvp and pve tryhards”.
Not that I would watch deeply in results to forum poll to draw conclusions about what is “feasible to develop” and what is not but if half of players did not enjoy or participate in recent dlcs it’s not a very optimistic result either.5 -
colossalvoids✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭* edited to bottom to exclude something that was already posted before but saved as a draft. *SilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
You should actually read replies there if want to make an interpretation from this small pool of people. Even there one third finds in unengaging which is pretty strong opinion per se. But if you'll read up people who even are fine with how things are aren't engaged or desire for a more difficult encounters in a lot of comments. It's apparent that there's a market for such a stuff as harder main bosses made via group setting, scroll, banner or whatever it might be and we already have solo arena standards to be put in place. Have nothing to do with vet overland but will be a bone to chew on for a lot of folks who desire a challenge when you've been told that it's an end of the world every time.Edited by colossalvoids on 13 October 2021 15:484 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
Your interpretation is so insanely biased that it hurts. If this is actually the picture of how the player base fell it is a massive problem. Only 52% of players fell like the quest lines and final boss are engaging. Seriously, can't you see this? This is where ESO differentiate from their competition. I unsubscribed last week because of this problem and I doubt that I am the only one.
If you remove the ones who choose other (because their is no way to objectively interpret their comments) and just look at the yes and no, the percentage changes to 62% yes we are engaged and 38% no we aren't.
I think we all agree that forum posters are a small percentage of the playerbase anyway, but this poll does show what this small percentage thinks.
If you factor in the silent majority (those who only speak up when they are not satisfied) it overwhelmingly points toward most of the playerbase being satisfied with overland as it is now.PCNA0 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭50% is not most players, just half of them. With other half unsatisfied.
It is not 50/50. It is 52% satisfied and 32% not. Although this changes to 62% yes we are engaged and 38% no we aren't if you factor out other, which there is no way to count as yes or no.Edited by SilverBride on 13 October 2021 15:47PCNA0 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
50% is not most players, just half of them. With other half unsatisfied. I’m sure if results would be different and slightly in favor of second option then it would be “forums are not representative of in game population and consist of pvp and pve tryhards”.
Not that I would watch deeply in results to forum poll to draw conclusions about what is “feasible to develop” and what is not but if half of players did not enjoy or participate in recent dlcs it’s not a very optimistic result either.
Yes it is interesting how forum feedback doesn’t represent the general player populace until it does….SilverBride wrote: »
Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.Edited by Iccotak on 13 October 2021 16:004 -
Callosum✭✭✭degdfSilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
50% is not most players, just half of them. With other half unsatisfied. I’m sure if results would be different and slightly in favor of second option then it would be “forums are not representative of in game population and consist of pvp and pve tryhards”.
Not that I would watch deeply in results to forum poll to draw conclusions about what is “feasible to develop” and what is not but if half of players did not enjoy or participate in recent dlcs it’s not a very optimistic result either.
Yes it is interesting how forum feedback doesn’t represent the general player populace until it does….
Exactly my thought2 -
Amottica✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭degdfSilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
50% is not most players, just half of them. With other half unsatisfied. I’m sure if results would be different and slightly in favor of second option then it would be “forums are not representative of in game population and consist of pvp and pve tryhards”.
Not that I would watch deeply in results to forum poll to draw conclusions about what is “feasible to develop” and what is not but if half of players did not enjoy or participate in recent dlcs it’s not a very optimistic result either.
Yes it is interesting how forum feedback doesn’t represent the general player populace until it does….
I would suggest the forum feedback is only a vocal minority regardless of the viewpoint. It is why real information of how players actually play should outweigh our comments when Zenimax is considering an idea. It has to be worth their time and good for the game. Both of which Rich has clearly stated is not the case with creating more challenging zones or even an optional increase in difficulty.2 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
Except you’re choosing to deliberately ignore what 50% of the forum users think3 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.Edited by SilverBride on 13 October 2021 16:21PCNA0 -
Callosum✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »
And big deal obviously think that it is not engaging. I think the coming years are going to be ruff for ESO. The PVP playerbase is leaving - players who have paid every month for years without getting anything in return. I have have recently seen some of the biggest youtubers and content creators telling that they don't look forward to the upcoming DLC because overland and questing is not engaging anymore despite this is where ESO should shine compared to other MMO's. ESO is reliant on keeping there present players also the minorities and especially their youtubers and streamers. If ESO keeps putting out content where only 5% of it is dedicated to endgame or skilled players they will loss a lot of the regular players. A big part of the majority of players who like the difficulty as it is also include new players who won't stick around and a big part those who do will face the same problem that we do now.
Trust me I would never support a change that would totally ruin how your overland experience is now - like an overall increase in difficulty or some stupid like that. I do however think that something has to be done.4 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
I didn’t say the other was a clear yes or no. I said other generally had one or two critiques about the story while still liking it.
✋Nuance🤚
Yes, removing “other” votes totally shifted things in favor of the No option and in didn’t at all boost the percentage the yes votes….If you remove the ones who choose other (because their is no way to objectively interpret their comments) and just look at the yes and no, the percentage changes to 62% yes we are engaged and 38% no we aren't.
To be clear: /sEdited by Iccotak on 13 October 2021 16:291 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭I think the coming years are going to be ruff for ESO.
I don't understand why you think that. Rich Lambert recently stated that ESO is doing better now than it ever has.The PVP playerbase is leaving - players who have paid every month for years without getting anything in return.
I can't speak to what PvP players are doing because no numbers have been presented to show this.I have have recently seen some of the biggest youtubers and content creators telling that they don't look forward to the upcoming DLC because overland and questing is not engaging anymore despite this is where ESO should shine compared to other MMO's.
I don't watch streamers because they generally only represent the small percentage of hard core players.If ESO keeps putting out content where only 5% of it is dedicated to endgame or skilled players they will loss a lot of the regular players.
It is pretty standard in MMO's that only a small percentage engage in end game content, yet ESO has a huge amount of veteran dungeons, trials and arenas for these players to enjoy.Edited by SilverBride on 13 October 2021 16:44PCNA1 -
Franchise408✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
So 1/3rd of those polled are not satisfied, and you think those are acceptable numbers?
Also, it's very hard to take your points seriously when you are blatantly trying to twist it with comments like "if you leave xyz out". You don't get to pick and choose which information gets considered and which gets left out.6 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
So 1/3rd of those polled are not satisfied, and you think those are acceptable numbers?
Also, it's very hard to take your points seriously when you are blatantly trying to twist it with comments like "if you leave xyz out". You don't get to pick and choose which information gets considered and which gets left out.
Idk why any of y’all are referring to a forum poll that has less that 150 participants as some kind of indicator of anything. 150 ppl out of 19 million possible users, and heavily biased at that to even be posting to these message boards means nothing.
I wouldn’t draw any inferences from a forum poll unless you had at least 5000 responses, and even then that’s still just a view amongst the hardcore, in no way the casual players.5 -
SilverBride✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Franchise408 wrote: »So 1/3rd of those polled are not satisfied, and you think those are acceptable numbers?
1/3 of forum posters, not 1/3 of the general playerbase.Franchise408 wrote: »Also, it's very hard to take your points seriously when you are blatantly trying to twist it with comments like "if you leave xyz out". You don't get to pick and choose which information gets considered and which gets left out.
The ratio of those satisfied and those not stayed basically the same in both ways of interpreting it. I was merely looking at it from the clear yes and no answers because we can't accurately count other as either.PCNA1 -
Iccotak✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭So let’s follow this line of logic…
Person A & Person B & Person C
———————————————————
A: “The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.”
“Shows forum Poll to demonstrate their point”
C: “50% is not most players, just half of them. With other half unsatisfied. I’m sure if results would be different and slightly in favor of second option then it would be “forums are not representative of in game population and consist of pvp and pve tryhards”.
Not that I would watch deeply in results to forum poll to draw conclusions about what is “feasible to develop” and what is not but if half of players did not enjoy or participate in recent dlcs it’s not a very optimistic result either.“
B: “Yes, it is interesting how forum feedback doesn’t represent the general player populace until it does”
A: “It doesn't represent the general playerbase, but it does show what the forum users think.”
———————————————————
So most forum posters don’t want it but that doesn’t represent the general player base?
Then why say most people don’t want it and use a forum poll as evidence to support your point? 🤔Or Forum posters are indicative of the general player base - in which case only about 50% of them are happy with it while
over the other 50% are split between not happy with it - or just have some criticisms.
So it’s either pointless and irrelevant information -or- the evidence is not as supportive of your argument as you think it is
—————————————————trackdemon5512 wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
So 1/3rd of those polled are not satisfied, and you think those are acceptable numbers?
Also, it's very hard to take your points seriously when you are blatantly trying to twist it with comments like "if you leave xyz out". You don't get to pick and choose which information gets considered and which gets left out.
Idk why any of y’all are referring to a forum poll that has less that 150 participants as some kind of indicator of anything. 150 ppl out of 19 million possible users, and heavily biased at that to even be posting to these message boards means nothing.
I wouldn’t draw any inferences from a forum poll unless you had at least 5000 responses, and even then that’s still just a view amongst the hardcore, in no way the casual players.
We didn’t bring it in as evidence to support our argument - SilverBride did to support theirs.
Making it out to be relevant to the general playerbase and then saying it isn’t, which makes their point inconsistent & mootEdited by Iccotak on 13 October 2021 17:045 -
summ0004✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
I think it was obvious that more people were going to not want any tougher mobs or bosses in overland so thats no big surprise. But you need to consider that over 30% of people not being satisfied with the mobs and bosses is actually a huge number and shouldnt be ignored. I know this is only a small sample size but it at least shows its certainly not a tiny minority of like 1% of hardcore players that feel this way, but many other casual players.
This is a pretty significant minority and shows that as a business that is a huge amount of players that could be lost or retained with the release of new chapters and hence profit. This is especially a concern with competition from other MMOs such as FFIV, and new ones such as new world and the upcoming ashes of creation.
The question of how you go about making it viable for these players is complex and probably needs some thoughts, but it certainly cant be ignored. I think it would probably be difficult having a separate veteran server for overland and I respect this is probably not the best way forward, which is why I have suggested options such as
1. Making overland mobs harder and have better AI and offer buff food to players who want to use it.
2. Making nerf food for players to make current overland harder, but this still doesnt resolve the AI issues
3. leaving overland as it is in most case but introduce more special elite mobs
4. Make instance mobs and boss harder with optional difficulty scrolls.
5. Make overland mobs harder and have better AI and introduce more party companions.
These are of course all suggestions and may have pros and cons.
But it is clear that something needs to be done.3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »The bottom line is that most players are fine with overland story and bosses as they are. It is not feasible to develop features that will rarely be used.
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588806/were-you-generally-engaged-as-a-player-in-the-main-story-quest-lines-of-chapters-dlc-content/p1
That poll doesn't really represent anything but the forum population as it skews towards less casual crowd. Just because that poll has a slim majority liking it does not make it suddenly good evidence. A sample biased poll is a sample biased poll.Edited by spartaxoxo on 13 October 2021 17:122 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
So 1/3rd of those polled are not satisfied, and you think those are acceptable numbers?
Also, it's very hard to take your points seriously when you are blatantly trying to twist it with comments like "if you leave xyz out". You don't get to pick and choose which information gets considered and which gets left out.
Idk why any of y’all are referring to a forum poll that has less that 150 participants as some kind of indicator of anything. 150 ppl out of 19 million possible users, and heavily biased at that to even be posting to these message boards means nothing.
I wouldn’t draw any inferences from a forum poll unless you had at least 5000 responses, and even then that’s still just a view amongst the hardcore, in no way the casual players.
You'd only need like 400 people to have a decent poll.
Edit:
The real problem with the polling the forums are sample bias. People who get on the forums tend to be significantly less casual than the general population, no matter their skill level. It isn't every topic where this is likely to bias results, for example it's unlikley that liking Mehrunes Dagon has any connection to being more or less casaul. But there are topics like this one or "what's your dps" where it's gonna skew results.Edited by spartaxoxo on 13 October 2021 17:231 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »New World has an incredibly challenging open world and it's refreshing to say the least after playing The Elder Scrolls Online for years where the hardest thing about most of these quest chains is walking to the objective.
The most logical course of action is very simple. Players who enjoy difficult and challenging overland should play games like New World. Those who enjoy a more relaxing overland story experience should play games like ESO.
[snip]
I've always advocated for choice in content difficulty. You're advocating to keep choice out of the game even though this has been the #1 request on the forums for years, with damn good reason. People are sick of reading it on the forums? Well that means it's been a persistent request and imagine how people sick of not having a modicum of difficulty in 99% of the game feel. One shotting enemies Dynasty Warriors style isn't fun, especially when the quest dialog is building ____ the merciless up to be super intimidating and then you spend 45 minutes on a quest chain leading up to him, left click once and he's dead.
So let me get this straight, it's okay for them to significantly overhaul and "streamline" the game to make it easier and more accessible but I can't ask for an optional mode to add the difficulty back in? [snip]SilverBride wrote: »It is not logical to expect either type game to completely change their base game to adapt to individual players.
[edited for flaming]
ESO casual players dont want OPTIONAL overland content as they perceive it as a waste of resources that could be used to create content that caters to them. Additionally, they are probably afraid of ZOS adding potential rewards that would be locked behind said content, because they want everything handed to them.6 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭spartaxoxo wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
So 1/3rd of those polled are not satisfied, and you think those are acceptable numbers?
Also, it's very hard to take your points seriously when you are blatantly trying to twist it with comments like "if you leave xyz out". You don't get to pick and choose which information gets considered and which gets left out.
Idk why any of y’all are referring to a forum poll that has less that 150 participants as some kind of indicator of anything. 150 ppl out of 19 million possible users, and heavily biased at that to even be posting to these message boards means nothing.
I wouldn’t draw any inferences from a forum poll unless you had at least 5000 responses, and even then that’s still just a view amongst the hardcore, in no way the casual players.
You'd only need like 400 people to have a decent poll.
400 people of an unbiased population sample.
In order to get onto these forums you have to be invited, approved, and go through several incredible loops to do so. Then, those being polled here are simply the ones who clicked on said forum post and then decided to respond.
There was no effort to gather a proper spread of individuals. That poll is already tainted by so many factors that any results are statistically insignificant.
I would argue one of the only places on this forum where feedback is actually significant are in the PTS pages or bug reports. Everything else is opinionated from the get go. Even the polls most of the times asked loaded skewed questions that show clear bias.
This forum topic here started with a bias. One of the reasons it continues so long is that A LOT of us, including yourself @spartaxoxo are calling that bias out and showing evidence to the contrary of a lot of assumptions. Evidence based on both fact and coming from reliable sources in the know like Rich.1 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
I think it was obvious that more people were going to not want any tougher mobs or bosses in overland so thats no big surprise. But you need to consider that over 30% of people not being satisfied with the mobs and bosses is actually a huge number and shouldnt be ignored. I know this is only a small sample size but it at least shows its certainly not a tiny minority of like 1% of hardcore players that feel this way, but many other casual players.
This is a pretty significant minority and shows that as a business that is a huge amount of players that could be lost or retained with the release of new chapters and hence profit. This is especially a concern with competition from other MMOs such as FFIV, and new ones such as new world and the upcoming ashes of creation.
The question of how you go about making it viable for these players is complex and probably needs some thoughts, but it certainly cant be ignored. I think it would probably be difficult having a separate veteran server for overland and I respect this is probably not the best way forward, which is why I have suggested options such as
1. Making overland mobs harder and have better AI and offer buff food to players who want to use it.
2. Making nerf food for players to make current overland harder, but this still doesnt resolve the AI issues
3. leaving overland as it is in most case but introduce more special elite mobs
4. Make instance mobs and boss harder with optional difficulty scrolls.
5. Make overland mobs harder and have better AI and introduce more party companions.
These are of course all suggestions and may have pros and cons.
But it is clear that something needs to be done.
I'd like a combination of 2, 3, and 4 myself.0 -
Aliyavana✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SilverBride wrote: »AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »New World has an incredibly challenging open world and it's refreshing to say the least after playing The Elder Scrolls Online for years where the hardest thing about most of these quest chains is walking to the objective.
The most logical course of action is very simple. Players who enjoy difficult and challenging overland should play games like New World. Those who enjoy a more relaxing overland story experience should play games like ESO. It is not logical to expect either type game to completely change their base game to adapt to individual players.
We’d like optional challenging overland content in an elder scrolls setting though. We would like the gameplay to reflect the lore that establishes powerful enemies.6 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭trackdemon5512 wrote: »spartaxoxo wrote: »trackdemon5512 wrote: »Franchise408 wrote: »SilverBride wrote: »Except, you can’t factor out the “other“, that’s about 20 out of the 140 people that voted so far.
and really trying to do so comes off as trying to manipulate the numbers in your favor.
“Let’s just ignore those people’s feedback because it doesn’t directly support my argument”
I thought stats and numbers mattered to you seeing as how frequently you bring it up?
if you read through the replies of the yellow option, then you would see that predominantly they enjoy the writing but they are unhappy with the combat when it comes to the final boss.
Nuance matters, and once I read through the replies it was pretty obvious that it’s about 50% who are happy with the story experience and 50% who either don’t bother or have some criticism about it.
Let's leave other in then. It is still 52% satisfied and 32% not.
I read through the other comments and I do not come to the same conclusion. The other replies aren't clearly yes or no, therefor they can't accurately be applied to either answer.
EDIT: Removing other actually increased the percentage of those who chose no, and in no way was an attempt to manipulate in my favor.
So 1/3rd of those polled are not satisfied, and you think those are acceptable numbers?
Also, it's very hard to take your points seriously when you are blatantly trying to twist it with comments like "if you leave xyz out". You don't get to pick and choose which information gets considered and which gets left out.
Idk why any of y’all are referring to a forum poll that has less that 150 participants as some kind of indicator of anything. 150 ppl out of 19 million possible users, and heavily biased at that to even be posting to these message boards means nothing.
I wouldn’t draw any inferences from a forum poll unless you had at least 5000 responses, and even then that’s still just a view amongst the hardcore, in no way the casual players.
You'd only need like 400 people to have a decent poll.
400 people of an unbiased population sample.
Yes. I edited in but this is what I mean by sample bias. It's already not a random sample, it's probably a good guage of how hardcore players feel as it's probably a decently random sample of that subset of players, but not the general population.
A person can be hardcore enough to spend a lot of time and effort on this game, jump through hoops to leave feedback, etc and not particularly interested in improving the skill of their characters by doing stuff like engaging in hard content or practicing rotations.Edited by spartaxoxo on 13 October 2021 17:310 -
trackdemon5512✭✭✭✭✭
✭SilverBride wrote: »AlexanderDeLarge wrote: »New World has an incredibly challenging open world and it's refreshing to say the least after playing The Elder Scrolls Online for years where the hardest thing about most of these quest chains is walking to the objective.
The most logical course of action is very simple. Players who enjoy difficult and challenging overland should play games like New World. Those who enjoy a more relaxing overland story experience should play games like ESO. It is not logical to expect either type game to completely change their base game to adapt to individual players.
We’d like optional challenging overland content in an elder scrolls setting though. We would like the gameplay to reflect the lore that establishes powerful enemies.
The developers addressed this when introducing One Tamriel, the systems within, and scaling in 2014. See
https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=_Jk7LrLgRfg
Basically it comes down to the lore has you fighting and defeating Molag Bal, a Daedric Prince at that. Why afterwards should you be dying to skeevers just because they’re set to a higher difficulty level? That itself not only breaks lore but logic.3 -
spartaxoxo✭✭✭✭✭
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/588060/800k-people-dont-seem-to-mind-difficult-overworld/p28
To getting into this discussion again please see my post here. It contains the official stance of Zenimax0
This discussion has been closed.