PTS Update 32 - Feedback Thread for Combat & Classes

Extinct_Solo_Player

Flame Lash ability cost needs scale on whichever main resource is higher. Please Don't ignore crucial feedback, especially when you basically give us one half of the spammable scalling on max offensive stat and then left the cost as magicka. Just do the full change instead of shortsighted half changes.

ESO_Nightingale

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

Brahma_Br wrote: »

ESO_Nightingale wrote: »

PrinceShroob wrote: »

I like the change to Malevolent Offering; magicka Nightblades needed a strong self-heal for things like Cloudrest portals, and it's great to get a heal that doesn't require giving up Nightblades' unique Cloak ability. That said, can we please get the icon changed? It's been thorny vines wrapped around a pair of boots since it was Agony.

With the changes to Nightblade I'm wondering if they're supposed to be recompense for the Critical Damage cap. Templars got buffed last patch -- why have Wardens been ignored? They also have a boost to Critical Damage and it's worse than Templars' and Nightblades'...

Wardens' Glacial Presence passive technically does provide 10% Critical Damage and also provides Critical Healing, which Templars' Piercing Spear and Nightblades' Hemorrhage do not. However, it's conditional (requires an enemy to have been Chilled recently), whereas Nightblades' and Templars' passives are not, and the Critical Healing portion is very niche (requiring allies to have been Chilled recently, meaning it won't help if there's no source of frost damage hitting your allies). I think either changing it to simply "Increases your Critical Damage by 10%" would be fine and consistent with the other passives, which provide a flat boost to Critical Damage and some other effect. Alternatively, it could be "Increases your Critical Damage by 5% and increases your Critical Healing by 5%" to keep the healing flavor.

Unrelated to the Critical Damage cap, I think Glacial Presence should probably just be "Increases your chance to apply Chilled by 200%," full stop. The current method is too dependent on using Winter's Revenge, which makes magicka Warden feel very "eggs in one basket."

The crit dmg to chilled enemies is pretty flavourful and rewards applying our specific status effect similar to how dk gets bonuses to poisoned and burning. i don't think they should change that since it would hurt frost dps a bit, it's both flavour and function. crit healing to chilled allies is so weirdly specific it's probably better if they just kinda removed that or even replace it to include hemorrage for the crit dmg buff as well so stamdens can better get in on it.

Magicka Wardens have been asking for a new and powerful frost damage skill they can use in pvp and pve for a long time on the winter's embrace line since we are the frost damage class, but we still haven't gotten that yet despite being the class with the fewest effective non ultimate damage skills of any class and 3 of those 4 being magic damage. our Class identity is in shambles.
We also lack a class offensive stun, getting arctic blast as a defensive one in place of it with added health based healing on top(?). Since the rightful blast nerf we have frankly awful self healing even though we are the class with major mending in our passives. since all of our options are either really poor, or require more than 1gcd to heal as much as some other class options. I was not a fan of health stacking at all since it made us obnoxious to fight, but now our mag and spell dmg based heals are atrocious.

The last time we were directly buffed in even a niche way was back during harrowstorm when we got this crit damage bonus to chilled enemies in the first place, during markarth, stamina warden's sub assault was changed to be better, and now we as magdens use it because it's beating our deep fissure morph...

magicka warden really needs to be looked at soon.

here's hoping to at least frost shalks next patch.

I’m a Magden pvp player on PS4, and one of the lasts non-healer magicka warden in PvP….
Magden have been greatly harmed by the latest nerfs, especially with the Artic Blast healing reduction.
Today the Artic Blast is the most expensive burst heal in terms of magicka and the least effective in healing, compared to the other magicka classes.

Besides, well thought out message above, about the dmg (Frost Shalks plzzzzz!!!!!)

Please Zos, give Magden some love!!!

I think the arctic blast morph should lose the healing entirely to focus on dealing solid damage(enough to be useful in endgame pve) while also offensively stunning (a ranged frontal line aoe that we can aim at our target would be incredibly interesting and combo nicely with our whole "frontal aoe burst" playstyle) It should combo at least half decently with deep fissure.

The healing should be contained within the green balance line. Since it's entirely dedicated to that but none of the options really come close to being really solid 1 gcd burst heals. I've seen so many people ask for blast's healing to scale off magicka but all that does is yet again deny us another damage skill that we've been begging for while giving us the 6th non ultimate magicka based heal. Again, we have an entire line dedicated to that. And I'm a firm believer that we don't need 2 tank heal morphs when we have 4 non ultimate damage skills when 3 of those skills deal magic damage. On the frost damage class.

I'm not asking for a heal that is as strong as resistant flesh at base. But i think it would be fair if we had a burst heal that was able to reach as high as that WITH major mending procced.

I've got a more visual tooltip representation of what i mean about arctic blast.

JasonWangTaiwan

DK whip morph cost stam or highest offensive status, there's some pretty good reasons:
1.Give stam dk new diversity of direct damage build other than dot build(which already weak for class dot)
2.Most other class tool buff already cost mag and making spam cost mag will limit mag resource further more.
3.Good rotation performance since it will act better than cast time(dizzy swing) in actual gameplay.
4.It's been years and dk should get a class stam spammable already.

DavGlen

@ESO_Nightingale , there are massive amounts of feedback about the Mistform changes, and tons of better alternatives to nerfing 1 (one) unintended use of this ability other than removing the ability completely.

I hope we can get an answer about it.

ESO_Nightingale

DavGlen wrote: »

@ESO_Nightingale , there are massive amounts of feedback about the Mistform changes, and tons of better alternatives to nerfing 1 (one) unintended use of this ability other than removing the ability completely.

I hope we can get an answer about it.

I agree but I'm not sure why you pinged me? I'm not a developer. I doubt even warden's stuff will be looked at.

DavGlen

Lol, I saw your nickname and I thought you were from the ESO team

Why didnt anyone tell me

ESO_Nightingale

DavGlen wrote: »

Lol, I saw your nickname and I thought you were from the ESO team

Why didnt anyone tell me

zenimax employees have a green name and background around their posts as well as a "ZOS_" in front of their name.

oterWitz

DavGlen wrote: »

Lol, I saw your nickname and I thought you were from the ESO team

Why didnt anyone tell me

Haha that's great. I nominate Nightingale to go work for the combat team.
Sincerely,
A totally unbiased warden main

(But also I like that idea for ab, I think it'd synergize well with shalks and orbs.)

YandereGirlfriend

oterWitz wrote: »

DavGlen wrote: »

Lol, I saw your nickname and I thought you were from the ESO team

Why didnt anyone tell me

Haha that's great. I nominate Nightingale to go work for the combat team.
Sincerely,
A totally unbiased warden main

(But also I like that idea for ab, I think it'd synergize well with shalks and orbs.)

I, too, think this would be a good idea!

Vevvev

Karunama wrote: »

wolvensol87 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

wolvensol87 wrote: »

So I'm a tad confused on the whole mist from change is it just the damage reduction going away for it and the morphs? or is the DPS and healing from blood mist also only going to work in PVP only?

Damage reduction will only apply to player based damage. The other effects of Mistform still apply, but the issue is the ability is the damage reduction. Essentially it has been removed from PvE entirely with this change as the bonus effects are out classed by other abilities that are more cost effective and don't lock you out of blocking, sprinting, light/heavy attacking, etc.

ah ok, then I can keep using the skill...Myself I don't use it for the damage reduction

I have to ask, exactly what are you using it for? The only other effects on it are minor and can be received from a number of other, frankly superior skills. To be blunt, even sprinting is a better disengage 'skill' than Evasive Mist, never mind actual movement themed abilities. And to be clear, I'm saying that Evasive Mist is a subpar choice for disengaging on the *Live* servers, pre-nerf. Never mind after the heart has been ripped out of it.

I myself am pretty salty about the whole thing because I've been using mistform to vamptank since the vampire skill line was first released, even through all of the changes and nerfs. This one though, this one would be enough to make me just drop the character in its entirety. What would even be the point of being a vampire? I wish they'd just delete the skill line already if they hate it so much so I could just delete my main and reroll.

Also like to add that even if they do use it for the unmitigated speed the cost is way too high compared to the other abilities that do just that. Elusive Mist costs 1350 magicka without any cost reduction, and on my stage 4 vampire build I got it down to 680 magicka a second. Race Against time on that vampire build costs 2808 magicka for me, and this means over the 4 second duration I get speed from Race Against Time Elusive Mist would cost 2,720 magicka.

Only a 88 magicka difference, but where RAT is giving me more crit damage for 12 seconds, a spell orb charge, major expedition, and immunity to snares and immobilizations for 2 seconds, Elusive Mist is only giving me stun, snare and immobilization immunity, major expedition I can't capitalize on by sprinting, removes all magicka, stamina, and health regeneration, cuts off all healing, and 6 seconds of 300 spell and weapon damage after I leave it. Without some sort of damage mitigation, or buff to go along with it, Mistform is pretty much worthless in PvE with this change.

Wellsley

JasonWangTaiwan wrote: »

DK whip morph cost stam or highest offensive status, there's some pretty good reasons:
1.Give stam dk new diversity of direct damage build other than dot build(which already weak for class dot)
2.Most other class tool buff already cost mag and making spam cost mag will limit mag resource further more.
3.Good rotation performance since it will act better than cast time(dizzy swing) in actual gameplay.
4.It's been years and dk should get a class stam spammable already.

With this fake stamwhip we have :
1. Not enough magicka
2. Stam weapons for regen (heavy attack)
3. Too many useful skills that cost magic
4. Other classes have stam and mag spammable

Karunama

Vevvev wrote: »

Karunama wrote: »

wolvensol87 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

wolvensol87 wrote: »

So I'm a tad confused on the whole mist from change is it just the damage reduction going away for it and the morphs? or is the DPS and healing from blood mist also only going to work in PVP only?

Damage reduction will only apply to player based damage. The other effects of Mistform still apply, but the issue is the ability is the damage reduction. Essentially it has been removed from PvE entirely with this change as the bonus effects are out classed by other abilities that are more cost effective and don't lock you out of blocking, sprinting, light/heavy attacking, etc.

ah ok, then I can keep using the skill...Myself I don't use it for the damage reduction

I have to ask, exactly what are you using it for? The only other effects on it are minor and can be received from a number of other, frankly superior skills. To be blunt, even sprinting is a better disengage 'skill' than Evasive Mist, never mind actual movement themed abilities. And to be clear, I'm saying that Evasive Mist is a subpar choice for disengaging on the *Live* servers, pre-nerf. Never mind after the heart has been ripped out of it.

I myself am pretty salty about the whole thing because I've been using mistform to vamptank since the vampire skill line was first released, even through all of the changes and nerfs. This one though, this one would be enough to make me just drop the character in its entirety. What would even be the point of being a vampire? I wish they'd just delete the skill line already if they hate it so much so I could just delete my main and reroll.

Also like to add that even if they do use it for the unmitigated speed the cost is way too high compared to the other abilities that do just that. Elusive Mist costs 1350 magicka without any cost reduction, and on my stage 4 vampire build I got it down to 680 magicka a second. Race Against time on that vampire build costs 2808 magicka for me, and this means over the 4 second duration I get speed from Race Against Time Elusive Mist would cost 2,720 magicka.

Only a 88 magicka difference, but where RAT is giving me more crit damage for 12 seconds, a spell orb charge, major expedition, and immunity to snares and immobilizations for 2 seconds, Elusive Mist is only giving me stun, snare and immobilization immunity, major expedition I can't capitalize on by sprinting, removes all magicka, stamina, and health regeneration, cuts off all healing, and 6 seconds of 300 spell and weapon damage after I leave it. Without some sort of damage mitigation, or buff to go along with it, Mistform is pretty much worthless in PvE with this change.

Worthless in PvP too; the damage reduction doesn't count against any of the many many npcs in the Imperial City/Cyrodiil.

Vevvev

Karunama wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

Karunama wrote: »

wolvensol87 wrote: »

Vevvev wrote: »

wolvensol87 wrote: »

So I'm a tad confused on the whole mist from change is it just the damage reduction going away for it and the morphs? or is the DPS and healing from blood mist also only going to work in PVP only?

Damage reduction will only apply to player based damage. The other effects of Mistform still apply, but the issue is the ability is the damage reduction. Essentially it has been removed from PvE entirely with this change as the bonus effects are out classed by other abilities that are more cost effective and don't lock you out of blocking, sprinting, light/heavy attacking, etc.

ah ok, then I can keep using the skill...Myself I don't use it for the damage reduction

I have to ask, exactly what are you using it for? The only other effects on it are minor and can be received from a number of other, frankly superior skills. To be blunt, even sprinting is a better disengage 'skill' than Evasive Mist, never mind actual movement themed abilities. And to be clear, I'm saying that Evasive Mist is a subpar choice for disengaging on the *Live* servers, pre-nerf. Never mind after the heart has been ripped out of it.

I myself am pretty salty about the whole thing because I've been using mistform to vamptank since the vampire skill line was first released, even through all of the changes and nerfs. This one though, this one would be enough to make me just drop the character in its entirety. What would even be the point of being a vampire? I wish they'd just delete the skill line already if they hate it so much so I could just delete my main and reroll.

Also like to add that even if they do use it for the unmitigated speed the cost is way too high compared to the other abilities that do just that. Elusive Mist costs 1350 magicka without any cost reduction, and on my stage 4 vampire build I got it down to 680 magicka a second. Race Against time on that vampire build costs 2808 magicka for me, and this means over the 4 second duration I get speed from Race Against Time Elusive Mist would cost 2,720 magicka.

Only a 88 magicka difference, but where RAT is giving me more crit damage for 12 seconds, a spell orb charge, major expedition, and immunity to snares and immobilizations for 2 seconds, Elusive Mist is only giving me stun, snare and immobilization immunity, major expedition I can't capitalize on by sprinting, removes all magicka, stamina, and health regeneration, cuts off all healing, and 6 seconds of 300 spell and weapon damage after I leave it. Without some sort of damage mitigation, or buff to go along with it, Mistform is pretty much worthless in PvE with this change.

Worthless in PvP too; the damage reduction doesn't count against any of the many many npcs in the Imperial City/Cyrodiil

Yep, keep forgetting to add that part but it's implied at this point. The change pretty much screws over the ability in both game modes because there are plenty of NPCs in PvP. Only PvP game mode without NPCs is Battlegrounds leaving it the only area of the game Mistform won't be nerfed in.

Edit: Funny thing about Battlegrounds is you can't even use Mistform while carrying a relic or chaos ball so... yeah...

Karunama

Forgot to add that those mana costs you listed are necessarily broken; vamp stage 4 is necessary to achieve that level of MP cost parity. Instead, via the magic of simply choosing not to disadvantage yourself by being a vampire at a high stage for very little benefit, you can have a much cheaper Race Against Time.

On a related note, someone earlier suggested that the devs were so nasty to the Vamp skill line because they had gotten feedback that 'it should feel like a curse' and that 'it should be a hard choice'. If so, they've patently failed at that.

By definition, a 'hard choice' would be one with lots of pros and cons you need to balance against eachother that lacks an easy conclusion. Clearly, it is an easy choice; be a WW instead. Even if you don't use it, it has no drawbacks. Similarly, the theme of vampiric curses in fiction is 'great power at great cost', but unfortunately the Vampirism skill line is 'some irritations for no real benefit'.

Vevvev

Karunama wrote: »

Forgot to add that those mana costs you listed are necessarily broken; vamp stage 4 is necessary to achieve that level of MP cost parity. Instead, via the magic of simply choosing not to disadvantage yourself by being a vampire at a high stage for very little benefit, you can have a much cheaper Race Against Time.

Why I included the stage in my post, and you are correct. So in order to get them that close you got to take 20% more flame damage, everything non-vamp costs 12% more, and have 0 health regeneration.

Completely and totally balanced. /s

Edit: Oh, and 10% more damage from Fighter's Guild abilities if their attacker has that one passive.

Altyrann

Any chance crit damage passives are getting looked at before live? If you're unlucky enough to play a Khajiit Stamblade / Stamplar in Medium armour you're going to be forced into either suboptimal gear (dropping Kilt) or taking some really subpar gains from slottable CPs.

YandereGirlfriend

Altyrann wrote: »

Any chance crit damage passives are getting looked at before live? If you're unlucky enough to play a Khajiit Stamblade / Stamplar in Medium armour you're going to be forced into either suboptimal gear (dropping Kilt) or taking some really subpar gains from slottable CPs.

Ask them to buff the competing CP stars.

Altyrann

YandereGirlfriend wrote: »

Altyrann wrote: »

Any chance crit damage passives are getting looked at before live? If you're unlucky enough to play a Khajiit Stamblade / Stamplar in Medium armour you're going to be forced into either suboptimal gear (dropping Kilt) or taking some really subpar gains from slottable CPs.

Ask them to buff the competing CP stars.

Here's one I made earlier...

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/586961/cp-alternatives-to-crit-damage-with-cap

Zormac

We're 3 days away from release and ZOS has ignored most of the feedback, especially regarding Mist Form. What is even the point of this thread? Placebo? Anyway, here we go:

The current state of vampires in ESO hardly feels rewarding. While ZOS seems to hate the "one-size-fits-all" approach, they don't seem to realize that the entire vampire skill line leads to very little diversity, as players are forced to pick the same cookie-cutter solutions to counter the negative sides of vampirism.

For example, there is little to no reason to ever be a vampire stage 4 aside from the cost reduction of vampire skills, which are borderline useless. Eviscerate is subpar compared to other spammables, Blood Frenzy is hardly worth the risk unless you use self-healing attacks (such as Puncturing Sweep), Drain takes too long and prevents you from fighting for the duration to be a viable self heal while doing very little damage (it used to stun, which was awesome). Mesmerize has no real use other than making NPCs talk to you. Mist Form is possibly the single good active skill in the entire vampire tree, which can actually be used in a smart way in combat. Or at least it could, before now.

Every other skill in the vampire tree can be replaced by better skills or effects from other sources, even when soloing. Unless stage 4 grants an actual advantage rather than cost reduction to subpar abilities, being a vampire is a penalty, not an advantage, unlike its werewolf counterpart. With the changes to Mist Form, ZOS makes us question even further why we would ever need (or want) to be a vampire. This could be addressed by increasing the effectiveness (such as damage, healing, critical chance, range, duration, etc.) of vampire abilities per stage, rather than merely reducing its cost.

Possible solutions have been posted in this thread repeatedly. Mist Form needs to be reworked, not castrated, in order to reward players with interesting gameplay. As stated many times, Blood Mist is NOT a disengage ability, no matter what ZOS says - only Elusive Mist does that. Blood Mist is a tanking ability, which could be reworked to serve a DPS purpose instead (with higher damage, faster ticks) or an enhanced tanking skill (reducing enemy damage, movement speed, etc.) if ZOS doesn't want abuse from its former damage reduction. Or better still - address the Trial boss mechanics that have required players to resort to Mist Form and leave it untouched.

YOU created this problem, ZOS. Players just found a solution. Instead of fixing the problem, you are removing the solution because you disagree with it. And now, due to a few players fighting a single boss in a single DLC trial, all players must suffer equally. That is not how you solve problems. Give players a reason to be a vampire (especially at high stages), and give Mist Form a reason to be slotted in your bar. Otherwise, it is very difficult to have fun when even the things at your disposal are against you - and having fun is an essential aspect of the game.