Upcoming Changes to Battleground Queues

odintgeb14_ESO

A drop in the ocean at this point, but I'd like to add my feedback: No. Please no. Deathmatch is probably my least favorite game mode.

Magio_

Reading half the posts on this thread, clearly there is appetite for Objective Modes. Even though I would never play them because I believe they promote avoiding combat and they're just bad PvP, I feel like the people who enjoy these modes should be able to queue for them. I also want to be able to queue specifically into the BG mode I prefer.

Before this current DM only test, there was also a lot of threads opened about playerbase discontent with the Random Solo + Group system, from players that prefer playing Deathmatch and players that prefer Objective modes alike. During the Solo Queue test, if you can even call it just a "test" considering how long it lasted, there was massive backlash on the forums about not being able to group for a Group v Group v Group PvP mode and resulted in a massive loss of previously consistent players in several of the BG guilds I was part of. Organized competition died overnight.

I would bet that the amount of threads opened showing discontent about the Group-Only + Specific Queues was way lower than any of the other Queue systems that have been implemented since. ZOS really needs to take into consideration, that even the ones opened about the Group Only Specific Queue system were usually just QQ threads about getting "beat by premades", which wasn't always true. To this very day, people in my guilds receive hate tells about "being in a premade" as solo queuers, sometimes even after a Solo Queue match. It's completely asinine.

ZOS, you keep saying Battlegrounds don't have the population to support Group Queue, Solo Queue, and Specific Queues. Just please bring back the Group + Specific Queue system we had and add an identifier to being grouped to the scoreboard. That way, people will see that it's not always a premade when they get beat and the toxicity towards other players and the general discontent with that old queue system will both drop.

The Solo Queues can be added later on if the population ever grows enough to support it.

jaws343

Magio_ wrote: »

Reading half the posts on this thread, clearly there is appetite for Objective Modes. Even though I would never play them because I believe they promote avoiding combat and they're just bad PvP, I feel like the people who enjoy these modes should be able to queue for them. I also want to be able to queue specifically into the BG mode I prefer.

Before this current DM only test, there was also a lot of threads opened about playerbase discontent with the Random Solo + Group system, from players that prefer playing Deathmatch and players that prefer Objective modes alike. During the Solo Queue test, if you can even call it just a "test" considering how long it lasted, there was massive backlash on the forums about not being able to group for a Group v Group v Group PvP mode and resulted in a massive loss of previously consistent players in several of the BG guilds I was part of. Organized competition died overnight.

I would bet that the amount of threads opened showing discontent about the Group-Only + Specific Queues was way lower than any of the other Queue systems that have been implemented since. ZOS really needs to take into consideration, that even the ones opened about the Group Only Specific Queue system were usually just QQ threads about getting "beat by premades", which wasn't always true. To this very day, people in my guilds receive hate tells about "being in a premade" as solo queuers, sometimes even after a Solo Queue match. It's completely asinine.

ZOS, you keep saying Battlegrounds don't have the population to support Group Queue, Solo Queue, and Specific Queues. Just please bring back the Group + Specific Queue system we had and add an identifier to being grouped to the scoreboard. That way, people will see that it's not always a premade when they get beat and the toxicity towards other players and the general discontent with that old queue system will both drop.

The Solo Queues can be added later on if the population ever grows enough to support it.

The solo queue is easily the healthier queue imo. If it were removed I would never do BGs again. The group queue allows a group to coordinate and completely shutdown the gameplay of anyone else who is not in a coordinated group. This is fine if solo players have an option to join that queue or not. But when they can only queue in group, they can't possibly ever have a chance of success against true teams. Competitively, it is such a ridiculous advantage to be in a coordinated team, that joining solo is absolutely not viable for success.

Where the solo queue shines is, while one match may be skewed in one direction, you don't often end up facing the same team match after match. While you may see the same players here and there, they are rarely in the same groups. So it provides a more varied and far more balanced experience. Not everyone can get a group together at all times of day to enjoy a BG match, and the solo queue works for that, and not everyone can even get together a group at all for any kind of consistent learning, but they still want small scale PVP, the solo queue works for that. The group queue does not. Both queues need to exist.

Aldoss

alberichtano wrote: »

In the objective variants, even a sucky PvP-er has a chance to win with a good team.

This is the logic divide that we're all experiencing here. You (presumably) define "good" as players that can avoid dying to capture a flag. DMers define good as being able to kill players without dying themselves. I do (sometimes) enjoy the objective modes, but only when it's with a full lobby of PvPers that share my same understanding of what good PvP is. The moment I get put in a relic game and one team is full of block tanks and healers, that team's relic may as well not exist. I'll never see that as "good PvP". If these modes didn't encourage and reward players who actively avoid combat, I'd enjoy playing them more.

Without a definition of what "good PvP" is from ZOS, this divide will always exist. This is why removing choice was never going to be anything but hugely disappointing, toxic, and insulting to some portion of ESO's playerbase.

Also, @Lauranae, props to you for giving low lvl BGs a shot. I hope you know that low lvl BGs are possibly the worst form of ESO's PvP experience and are full of either twinks (people who gold their gear for their low lvl and update their gear every few lvls to stay as powerful as possible) or "good" PvPers just looking to lvl a new toon (myself included sometimes). I remember the first time I realized that the player I thought was constantly disconnecting before the end of the BG, was actually purposefully leaving so that they couldn't get any exp points from the experience so that they could continue to stomp on newbies....

There is no hope of ever balancing low lvl BGs. My most recent new toon was a full werewolf by lvl 15. Once I had ult in a BG, I was literally unkillable. Without ww, I'd die swiftly from 3 hits.

I hope you try again at CP160.

luen79rwb17_ESO

ZOS has to stop this madness at once. Make one DM only with premades and a solo with all BG modes. That IMO would end this crazy times.

Oh and ALSO NO preselected mode. Thunbnail should say: select mode and let people pick. TY

Lauranae

Aldoss wrote: »

alberichtano wrote: »

In the objective variants, even a sucky PvP-er has a chance to win with a good team.

This is the logic divide that we're all experiencing here. You (presumably) define "good" as players that can avoid dying to capture a flag. DMers define good as being able to kill players without dying themselves. I do (sometimes) enjoy the objective modes, but only when it's with a full lobby of PvPers that share my same understanding of what good PvP is. The moment I get put in a relic game and one team is full of block tanks and healers, that team's relic may as well not exist. I'll never see that as "good PvP". If these modes didn't encourage and reward players who actively avoid combat, I'd enjoy playing them more.

Without a definition of what "good PvP" is from ZOS, this divide will always exist. This is why removing choice was never going to be anything but hugely disappointing, toxic, and insulting to some portion of ESO's playerbase.

Also, @Lauranae, props to you for giving low lvl BGs a shot. I hope you know that low lvl BGs are possibly the worst form of ESO's PvP experience and are full of either twinks (people who gold their gear for their low lvl and update their gear every few lvls to stay as powerful as possible) or "good" PvPers just looking to lvl a new toon (myself included sometimes). I remember the first time I realized that the player I thought was constantly disconnecting before the end of the BG, was actually purposefully leaving so that they couldn't get any exp points from the experience so that they could continue to stomp on newbies....

There is no hope of ever balancing low lvl BGs. My most recent new toon was a full werewolf by lvl 15. Once I had ult in a BG, I was literally unkillable. Without ww, I'd die swiftly from 3 hits.

I hope you try again at CP160.

Thank you! it was not really fun to be honnest. I did it to try to understand how it is to be a full DM pvper and thought low level would help me. I did met as i said gold tanky build or dps that can kill you in one shot, or a full premade that if you succeed once in killing one of them will then jump on you all together at each possibility they have. Well ... no comment LOL

Now i will wait a little to enter cp160 PVP because of the stupidity to be lveled to 50 in 2 days even if you dont want that.
i am not able to get a good pvp set until at least a good month, as i prefered first to get my pve set

I so wish we could get a block xp as we can get that in so many games. But sorry this is another topic.

I do though prepare my rotation and use it at least for one hour each day to be used to it as its different from pve. I do not know yet if i want to go bow/2H or Dual or Bow/bow so i try different possibilites. Dont forget i am a gran'ma LOL so dont ask me to act as a good pvper LOL. But i know i like cyrodill. So i will go.

Dem_kitkats1

First of all I'm thrilled that ZOS is finally taking feedback for BGs and that there is a healthy amount of feedback. I'm sure my thoughts will be repetitive to what other's are saying, but I really enjoy BGs and the environment there has been very sad as of late. I understand that the DM only que will please some BG players, but I think it will harm the already diminishing population. I agree the rate of DMs was way too low; the point of PVP is to kill other players, not run around after some unkillable tank build time and time again. However, from what I've seen, BGs is a mesh of of skilled vet PVPers (who just want some quick, fast paced action), to BGs only PVPers (those who enjoy playing with their friends of different factions, or just want to enjoy some casual fast paced PVP), and PVErs (players who want to dip their toes in PVP but are too intimidated or disinterested in the campaign modes). Therefore, I think there still should be some variety in types of modes you can play. I also think that too often BGs get lumped in with the problems IC and Cyrodiil (hello new sets). DM only ques only satisfies a small percentage of players and completely ignores the complaints of the majority of players. What are the major complaints?

1. PROC SETS PROC SETS PROC SETS. I don't think that it could be anymore clear what players think of them and the vicious cycle they weave. Vet players complain that they encourage mindless, skill less play and discourage build diversity, so they end up leaving. And it's been proven to be true in every recap I've had this patch (Which combination of the same 3 sets have I been hit by?). The stats on these sets are so insane that with two clicks of a button you can achieve more damage and healing than any of your actual skills or abilities. New players use these sets as crutch without gaining any actual skill and are at a loss when these sets become nerfed. Experienced players who are frustrated at being unable to compete with these stats take on an attitude of "well can't beat them, so might as well join them", and inevitably just end up steam rolling everyone. So the proc cycle continues and everyone is unhappy.

2. LAG. I don't know why this isn't more of a priority when it's honestly one of the biggest complaints I hear from other players. And this is an issue that goes beyond PVP. Both PVPers and PVErs alike have had enough of the lag and are tired of hearing their complaint about this go unacknowledged. We could even deal with the proc sets if our skills would fire correctly and other players wouldn't appear and disappear out of nowhere.

3. I have also seen others suggest that there should be more incentives and I would agree with this. Aside from a few titles a few sets and transmutes you can get, there isn't a lot to get people who aren't big PVP players to really get into battlegrounds. I also believe that more incentives (maybe some cool skins, or mounts, or titles. Something to work towards) would also keep the attention of experienced and gain the interest of new players.

Just some thoughts.

RedTalon

Been hanging in cyro more rather pick off and side help zerg ballers then death match more fun also to hang out iin the vast land of cyro tthen dming when getting the urge to do something different.

Yes cyro is better then bgs now.

Sorry for typos

emmerz6949

@ZOS_GinaBruno Why not just make it where people can choose what modes they're interested in? Like an options checklist so players can choose multiple different ones or only one. I personally dislike death match and prefer all the other modes, so if I had an options checklist I would check all except DM when I go to queue for BG.

I feel like every "test" update that ZOS comes out with for BG is just pushing more and more players away from BG. Like when they got rid of group queue me and my friends stopped playing BG cause playing together was the fun part for us. Now they've gotten rid of every mode except DM and most of my friends have stopped playing BG cause their favorite mode to play is just gone.

IndigoDreams

okay so its been 3 weeks of this *TEST*
It really arrived at the worst time for me, i have to move and my circumstances are very difficulty to do anything in life.
3 plus weeks of NOT running battlegrounds since I don't want to give approval.

What will be my reward for being strong in my convictions ?
More than likely nothing.

Is this what I have to look forward to?

nightstrike

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.

Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.

Why not just set up the queue system identically to the dungeon finder, where you can pick which games to queue for?

orwangatang

keep it forever we love it tdm ftw

Nogawd

I have still not ran a single BG since this "test" started.

Taggund

Nogawd wrote: »

I have still not ran a single BG since this "test" started.

same, and my ESO time is just to get the event tickets and run daily writs, so less than an hour a day

Beardimus

I'm Def not interested in DM only..dull

Skoomah

orwangatang wrote: »

keep it forever we love it tdm ftw

I second this! TDM 4EVA!

Magio_

Give the objective gamers their queues back, but PLEASE let us keep Group DM queue.

jtm1018

Now I dont have to complain other players doing deathmatches in other bg mode.

It just works!

Casul

I personally prefer objective modes more than DM.

Just my 2c, I will participate but do not like that I have no choice.

TROJAN_KNIGHT

The only problem with team deathmatch is that in the other modes you get rewarded for not doing the objective, if the game mode is not team deathmatch, players should not be rewarded medallions or experience based on kills but only on what the objective is for that mode. while there are players still getting rewards and experience given to players doing team deathmatch on modes that are not team deathmatch this will not change, rewards and exp only be given based on that modes objective NOT FOR KILLS thats what TDM is for.

For an example in chaos ball if a player has the ball and to keep other players in the radius and protect the carrier, any person within the chaos ball damage area should mitigate 15% of the damage from the ball carrier that way other players will be motivated to continue next to the ball carrier and the player that is mitigating damage should get a certain amount of points or experience based on how he helped the ball carrier mitigate damage, if another player kills a mitigating player then they receive XP or points, but if they're running around doing random kills to persons that are not mitigating or holding the ball they should not get any points or experience on those kills. Same thing should be done for capture the relic, create a radius around the relic holder and any player within that radius will receive defensive points and any player that kills a player within that radius receives offensive points. And for anyone trying to exploit this put a timer on the relic if the relic is not captured within a specific amount of time reset it back to its original base. And any points given to those defending their relic at there base, those points through should be minimal, the points given to players defending a relic in transit should be the main source of points and experience, not the ones that are received for defending the base, if the base can be defended without the relic ever leaving it, there could be a medallion given to that group of players for keeping their base well defended or never captured which will compensate the players that could defend their base without their relic being captured or removed.

Amandakill420

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello all!

When Battlegrounds first launched, we initially saw some data and feedback showing a preference specifically towards the Deathmatch game mode. With the recent removal of the option to choose a game mode when queuing for a Battleground, we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch. In an effort to increase Battleground population and interest, the Solo and Group queues will only offer the Deathmatch game mode for a period of time. This change will occur during next week's maintenances, on September 20 for PC/Mac/Stadia and September 22 on consoles.

After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.

Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.

Is there some reason why, after seeing how many people are upset with you completely removing the objective-based battlegrounds, you guys can't make separate queues?

-Solo Deathmatch
-Group Deathmatch
-Solo Objective
-Group objective

From my perspective y'all seem to be perfectly capable of doing such a thing and I think it would be a massive improvement.

I haven't ran a single BG since you took away my favorite games. Deathmatch is cool but tweaking a toon until it can survive all the different flag and ball games is fun and I'm pretty upset that they're all gone.

😭😭😭 give me back my chaosballllll

Araneae6537

Or solo queue random and team deathmatch? I’ve played several BGs but between being deathmatch only and the ridiculous Dark Conergence set, most haven’t been very fun. Domination is my favorite mode but honestly, variety is fun and close matches are fun.

Jackey

I think Dark Convergence killed BGs more than this experiment did.
I would have participated more if it weren't for that set. It's spammed every match, it's extremely disruptive and ruins the fun.
I used to play a few matches every day because it was really fun, but now it's just frustrating to play.

Nogawd

I have not called in. Have not ran a single BG during this alleged test.

RoeWinterBee24a

I gotta say, Battlegrounds was the only thing that continued to keep me coming back to ESO after the big update that left the voice channels broken.....but DeathMatch was the worst game mode. Just like others that have commented - It's only fun for those who know how to build OP characters and OP sets. I do understand that alot of people were treating other game modes like deathmatch, but it didn't matter when it came to strategy and I always had fun.
I see people saying give better rewards....I don't know about that personally because I was fine with the rewards and I liked the challanges given by Battlemaster Riven BUT I think if you really want your audience to maximize on battlegrounds, then it should be OPTIONAL GAME MODE!
If you want to play death match and show off your OP character , You can choose deathmatch!
If you want to play Crazy King or any Capture the Flag mode, You can choose those game modes!
If you want to play Chaos Ball, You can choose Chaosball!

This sounds like the most fair option to me when it comes to choosing game modes. Now that it's deathmatch only, I won't be logging onto ESO very often anymore, and I especially will not be playing Battlegrounds anymore until this is changed.
):

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your participation, patience and feedback while we experimented with only having the Deathmatch game mode available. It was important for us to run this for a few weeks to ensure we had an accurate representation of overall involvement and interest in Battlegrounds during this time.

First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state.

Starting with the launch of Update 32 (November 1 for PC/Mac/Stadia and November 16 for consoles), we’ll be giving you more choices to decide which game mode to queue into depending on if you are playing solo or with a group. These will include:

• Solo Deathmatch
• Solo Random Battleground
• Group Deathmatch
• Group Random Battleground

One thing to keep in mind is the random queue will include all game modes (Flag Games, Land Grabs, and Deathmatch) so the likelihood of getting Deathmatch is going to be higher for those queueing into that game mode, specifically.

We’ll continue to monitor the sentiment and participation rates with Battlegrounds once this rolls out next month, and we’ll let you know if we plan for any additional changes. Thanks again for posting all your thoughts during this time!

mekops_ESO

edit:

jaws343

Solid queue update.

gariondavey

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hi everyone, thanks so much for your participation, patience and feedback while we experimented with only having the Deathmatch game mode available. It was important for us to run this for a few weeks to ensure we had an accurate representation of overall involvement and interest in Battlegrounds during this time.

First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state.

Starting with the launch of Update 32 (November 1 for PC/Mac/Stadia and November 16 for consoles), we’ll be giving you more choices to decide which game mode to queue into depending on if you are playing solo or with a group. These will include:

• Solo Deathmatch
• Solo Random Battleground
• Group Deathmatch
• Group Random Battleground

One thing to keep in mind is the random queue will include all game modes (Flag Games, Land Grabs, and Deathmatch) so the likelihood of getting Deathmatch is going to be higher for those queueing into that game mode, specifically.

We’ll continue to monitor the sentiment and participation rates with Battlegrounds once this rolls out next month, and we’ll let you know if we plan for any additional changes. Thanks again for posting all your thoughts during this time!

Thank you @ZOS_GinaBruno !

Alienoutlaw

cant we que for specific objective like we can with dungeon finder? let us choose rather than leave it to rng