Upcoming Changes to Battleground Queues

ZOS_GinaBruno

Hello all!

When Battlegrounds first launched, we initially saw some data and feedback showing a preference specifically towards the Deathmatch game mode. With the recent removal of the option to choose a game mode when queuing for a Battleground, we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch. In an effort to increase Battleground population and interest, the Solo and Group queues will only offer the Deathmatch game mode for a period of time. This change will occur during next week's maintenances, on September 20 for PC/Mac/Stadia and September 22 on consoles.

After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.

Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.


Edit [October 15]

Thanks so much for your participation, patience and feedback while we experimented with only having the Deathmatch game mode available. It was important for us to run this for a few weeks to ensure we had an accurate representation of overall involvement and interest in Battlegrounds during this time.

First, it’s valuable to note the general feedback on this test was quite polarizing. While there were certainly a lot of players that liked only having Deathmatch available, there were just as many that didn’t enjoy it. A frequent complaint we saw, though, was the disappointment that we removed something that is ultimately at the core of our game: the freedom of choice. And in the case of this test, the data appeared to back that up as well. Although we initially saw a very slight bump in participation, it quickly declined and has left Battleground populations in a fairly unhealthy state.

Starting with the launch of Update 32 (November 1 for PC/Mac/Stadia and November 16 for consoles), we’ll be giving you more choices to decide which game mode to queue into depending on if you are playing solo or with a group. These will include:

• Solo Deathmatch
• Solo Random Battleground
• Group Deathmatch
• Group Random Battleground

One thing to keep in mind is the random queue will include all game modes (Flag Games, Land Grabs, and Deathmatch) so the likelihood of getting Deathmatch is going to be higher for those queueing into that game mode, specifically.

We’ll continue to monitor the sentiment and participation rates with Battlegrounds once this rolls out next month, and we’ll let you know if we plan for any additional changes. Thanks again for posting all your thoughts during this time!

CaffeinatedMayhem

Welp, it's not like I was playing BGs anyway... *because* people treat every game like a Deathmatch. Which has ALWAYS been the case.

It was marginally ok during "all solo can pick game mode". Honestly tho, there isn't a simple solution to this problem.

Well, I have a solution but no one will like it:

Group only Deathmatch queue.
Solo for all other game modes.

>:D

Urvoth

Best change ever to happen to BGs

dinokstrunz

Noice

Azorean

Time to stop doing BGs

Since deathmatch mode is the one that I dislike the most.

Can you guys at least give us an ATM this test will last?

Magio_

Finally. Thank you.

Eevee_42

This is an amazing change! I haven’t been interested in battlegrounds for a long time, but I’ll definitely have to get back into them now.

Azorean

Also what about achivments? o.O Will they be impossible to complete since I'm still lacking a few

Skoomah

Thank god. This is the best thing ever.

gariondavey

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello all!

When Battlegrounds first launched, we initially saw some data and feedback showing a preference specifically towards the Deathmatch game mode. With the recent removal of the option to choose a game mode when queuing for a Battleground, we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch. In an effort to increase Battleground population and interest, the Solo and Group queues will only offer the Deathmatch game mode for a period of time. This change will occur during next week's maintenances, on September 20 for PC/Mac/Stadia and September 22 on consoles.

After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.

Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.

@ZOS_GinaBruno thank you!
Thank you!!
Thank you!!!!!!!!!!

Our bg guild is very happy.

ServerusEcru

This is a terrible idea. You’ve just made it only fun for griefers and bullies that like to pick on players who don’t run OP sets. The flag games are the most fun about BG. I won’t be supporting it anymore. Until this cancer is fixed.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

MashmalloMan

While I think there is much more people (as your stats prove) that enjoy playing DM and I'm excited for the experiment.. removing Group queuing should of been the information you needed to know that removing options from the game is not what people want.

• The 4 objective modes should be combined into 1 queue that is only group, no solo option.
• DM can remain Solo/Group.
• This gives 3 queue options. Add in a 4th option for random anything for the people that don't care what mode or group style it is, they just want to play ASAP.

This is coming from someone that finds Objective modes to be tedious because it's riddled with certain tank players that don't cast a single attack, jump into lava when they're challenged or steal objectives to either delay the match or get out of bounds for a win. You know who you are. These same people quit DM modes because they honestly find it fun to just tank and play objectives, we shouldn't be taking that away from them.

WhyEvenTry

Great idea

NoxiousBlight

Oh thank Vehk. I did four BGs today and three of them were capture the relic. I wanted to do a couple of more BGs but I was so exhausted from CTR that I just stopped. I loathe CTR and I feel like I get it 50% of the time just to taunt me. On my third one in a row I just quit trying to... well... capture the relic.

I wonder if there is some sort of compromise. Some people will hate all deathmatch, but can we have some sort of option to veto ONE game mode type? For example, I would be happy to play the flag games, I just never want to see another CTR game again. So I check CTR as my one veto, and otherwise it places me in whatever.

Or how about instead of it being random, you can't get the same type of game in a row? So if I land on a CTR I at least know my next game will be more enjoyable.

I think nothing but deathmatch will drive off as much population as it gains, so my assumption is the whole thing will be a wash. But either way, i'm totally down for a trial run. Will be nice for a change.

Also... how about double AP in BGs during this experiment? Just asking

CyberOnEso

I do personally prefer the non- deathmatch modes.

I think the main reason why people do not play BG's is the lack of rewards, and little knowledge of the rewards that do drop from BG's, rather than the enjoyment of the gamemode.

With the motifs that can sometimes, rarely, drop from doing BG's I think it would be good to highlight these on the battleground queuing.

Whereas rather them dropping by chance they would drop 1 after completing so many battlegrounds, so you know you are working towards a reward.

Maybe something like this.

Dayhjawk

First off, change it so those that are solo queing aren't being matched against premade groups. Solo Que should be default, Group que should be the pull down option.

Second, double check that the BG achievements are working. Cuz, they aren't half the time. Capture X relics, Killed X players.. no tick in achievement.

Third, why not have deathmatch as a gamemode option, and leave the others as the default.

NotaDaedraWorshipper

Would've been much better if they gave us an option to exclude 1 or 2 modes from the random queue. I like many of the different modes like chaosball.

Aznox

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

We’re excited to hear what you think.

Battleground veterans all around Tamriel:

camrenis

Why not add in extra incentives/rewards for playing the objectives? e.g. some value of AP/s for holding the ball, 5k AP per relic captured or something like that. You aren’t going to stop people from playing them like a deathmatch just by dropping them for a couple of weeks and adding them back in another way that would keep them populated enough to be worth queueing for.

Secondly if the ability to queue for them separately isn’t reintroduced, please consider reducing the requirements for some of the achievements such as Walk it Off that are already tedious enough without having to wait for the right game mode in queue.

HeroOfNone

I'd like to see the other player modes to be retooled as deathmatch variations. Something where the side objectives (relic, capture points, chaosball) gives advantages (more damage, better regen etc.) to getting more kills in addition to points but scoring kills still adds to your team's score.

Anyammis

I do not think this is a good idea or well thought out. I first want to ask, what does this mean for loot from battelgrounds tied to specific modes during these changes? Are they going to be just added to a general loot pool? What about achivements, specifically those with cosmetics like dyes and furniture tied to them? If this is a temporary change for a few weeks, fine, but any longer it could be tough.

I admit, I haven't played battlegrounds in a long time because of a few reasons. I'd like to leave them here and offer them as feedback because while I love battlegrounds and battleground type stuff, I have been playing other games for my fix of that type of game mode because of how eso has handled it poorly:

• Reward frustrations: I originally quit doing battlegrounds because there was an issue where the more horned dragon/fanged worm pages you got, the less likely you were to get a new one you didn't have. I went something like 500 games between my last drop of those style pages. I am still missing about 8 and I really want to complete them but the frustration of grinding it was not worth it. I don't know if this has been changed since but it was a huge issue for me. I know they added new cosmetics tied to a specific battleground type (battleground runner, chaosball emotes) and I would love to get those too but they were also added when queing for a type of battleground was disabled. These two issues caused the droprate for those cosmetics to feel too low and unrewarding and not worth it if it was your primary reason for getting them. Also, I got all the dye achievements and all the furnishing ones but "kill 100 relic runners" and while I roughed it through those, those were miserably grindy. I know for a while the style pages for battlegrounds were sellable/tradeable, perhaps going back to that might generate more interest and even some incentive/income for people to do battlegrounds.
• Deathmatch-itis: Most people don't enjoy deathmatch, or if they do, they are doing it with a coordinated team. I suspect as more and more players just treated the flag and chaosball games like deathmatch, players who preferred strategy and objective control stopped playing out of annoyance/frustration. I know it was the second biggest reason for me (the first being the cosmetic frustrations above). My favorite kinds of pvp arena modes are things like Nexus Blitz in League of Legends, where there are minigames and objectives that while they can be ignored, will severely harm your team if you ignore them. Perhaps looking at that game mode for some ideas on how to implement a fun/random event system in eso that players can feel is fresh every game even if they are playing their 1st match or their 1000th. It would be easy to give Sheogorath or another daedric prince who summons and objective or event to keep things interesting or spicy and give us some battleground lore
• New Content: speaking of above, a fresh overhaul to battlegrounds would be nice. We haven't had a new map since Eld Angavar. We have so many more maps and places we could go. Another option would be to give minigames like I suggested above tied to specific maps if a random bundle of minigames is too much work, or maybe even giving x number of random events while each battleground map has a unique event or two related to them. Another thing that might generate hype and excitement might be an in game announcer (we already have this in arenas like ma, dsa, vh, etc, why not battlegrounds?), I know games that have these announcers make it fun and exciting and some games even offer crown storelike options to buy annoucer packs of different characters and that could be a new source of revenue for eso. I'm also always down for new motifs/style pages, perhaps new teams or ideas too or giving a newer "season" or look for the older teams. There is so much potential here and cosmetics are a very easy way to generate activity/hype. Pvp content additions are rare/erratic in eso but battlegrounds are the worst by far for adding new stuff. There are times we got up to a year without anything major added for battlegrounds. IC is finally getting some love/updates it deserves, lets give that treatment to battlegrounds.
• Supports don't get love: In other pvp games, I often play a support or off support and I prefer that playstyle, but in eso battlegrounds, playing as a support is so unrewarding sometimes. Even if you are carrying a match as a tank or healer with those clutch saves/cc, your score is often at the bottom of your team. Since cosmetic rewards are somewhat based on performance, this means there is more incentive to play as a dps, which leads to deathmatching, which leads to...you get it. Supports are valuable in pvp battleground settings in games, but eso doesn't reward people for supporting and that means a lot of support mains will go to other games for their pvp fix instead of dealing with eso's system. Giving supports more perks for supporting, and also letting group finder role be a factor/relevant to queing might be nice. I've also had the frustrating experience of rolling into a battleground on my healer to find we have two healers, a tank, and a dps while the other teams have all dps or all dps and a healer, or something like that. I don't think requiring a support on a team would be a great idea for the queue overall, but making it so a team doesn't get all supports or none would be appreciated. I know some of the games I play will put no support teams vs other no support teams or vice versa without making it so one has a healer or tank and the other doesn't because generally speaking this makes the match unfair for players.
• MMR in low pop hours: This is the least major factor for me personally but i know some people who don't play battlegrounds because they play in low pop hours where mmr is widely varied and that means games are a full on stomp. Most people want matches that are to some degree of fair/a tossup. If people are winning hard all the time or losing hard all the time, they will get demoralized and give up.

I may be forgetting a few things since I did this off the top of my head but these are the factors I feel are hurting battlegrounds the most atm or ones I hear complained about a lot. Please take this feedback into consideration as you are searching for ways to liven up battlegrounds. I miss battlegrounds and would love to play them regularly again but at the moment it's just too unfun/frustrating.

MurderMostFoul

Love it, perhaps I'll play again????

Please share this news broadly, I'm sure loads of folks would like to queue up with this change.

Edit:
Folks are suggesting other ways to improve battlegrounds here, which are all valid ideas, but if we're being honest, we all knew ZOS was going to put minimal investment into whatever change came about, if they changed anything. Accepting that reality, I am happy to see that something has happened to appeal to the majority who've been wanting to be able to play Deathmatch more frequently.

MEBengalsFan2001

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Welp, it's not like I was playing BGs anyway... *because* people treat every game like a Deathmatch. Which has ALWAYS been the case.

It was marginally ok during "all solo can pick game mode". Honestly tho, there isn't a simple solution to this problem.

Well, I have a solution but no one will like it:

Group only Deathmatch queue.
Solo for all other game modes.

>:D

I like that idea as long as each Q gets its own random daily rewards.

No_Lollygaggin

This makes me sad face. I started to avoid BGs after my choice was taken away and everything became treated like DM all the time. I am guessing this is also a reason why others may not be participating anymore. I hope this doesn't last long and we get an option to choose again. Also, I agree that folks solo queuing should be separated from people in pre made groups.

Ye_Olde_Crowe

Pity. DM is my least favorite BG mode. Well, I guess I'll be taking a break then until the fun modes are reintroduced.

Fhritz

Collecting data... Updating queue... BG update incoming for Q4 maybe ??

Merforum

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Hello all!

When Battlegrounds first launched, we initially saw some data and feedback showing a preference specifically towards the Deathmatch game mode. With the recent removal of the option to choose a game mode when queuing for a Battleground, we’ve now seen an uptick in players choosing to treat any game mode as Deathmatch. In an effort to increase Battleground population and interest, the Solo and Group queues will only offer the Deathmatch game mode for a period of time. This change will occur during next week's maintenances, on September 20 for PC/Mac/Stadia and September 22 on consoles.

After we have a chance to digest some of the feedback and data from this experiment, we’ll decide on what the next steps should be for Battleground queue options and consider the best way to add the other Battleground game modes back in.

Thanks for your continued interest and support! We’re excited to hear what you think.

OMG so just reward all the babies who have been ruining all objective BG games for months and making it impossible for those who don't like deathmatch to even play BGs. Really stupid. Let me guess the next solution will be to make dungeon finder only allow fake tanks and fake healers and no one else. Well hopefully you won't have any more endeavors or events that require BGs since everyone except about 50 whiners will not want to do BGs at all now.

What you should do is remove the group queue and have 1 solo queue for specific match and 1 solo for random. Or make the specific a group queue for specific BG and allow single players but don't take them from solo queue, and random for solo only.

Actually come to think of it, if you just made the current group queue into specific instead of random, and left the solo queue alone where it doesn't back fill group queue, I think everyone will be happy.

Darian_Rath

I like deathmatch and all, but this is the wrong approach. First Zos forces all the DMers into the war games and ruins the experience for those who like them. Now they're just flat out removing war games to appease the DMers. Removing 80% of BG content is not an improvement.

They should have made a solo and group DM queue and a solo war games queue.

Elyox

CaffeinatedMayhem wrote: »

Welp, it's not like I was playing BGs anyway... *because* people treat every game like a Deathmatch. Which has ALWAYS been the case.

It was marginally ok during "all solo can pick game mode". Honestly tho, there isn't a simple solution to this problem.

Well, I have a solution but no one will like it:

Group only Deathmatch queue.
Solo for all other game modes.

>:D

Group only bad modes and solo only deathmatch :D

Fennwitty

@ZOS_GinaBruno, are you also going to do something about DARK CONVERGENCE and HROTHGAR'S?

If not it's just a pure meatgrinder everyone will get tired of ...


And hey what about that months-old bug where Pit Bully achievement for the Fire Drake Red dye isn't incrementing?

Being unable to make progress on that is the primary reason I'm avoiding Battlegrounds.

rbfrgsp

Further dumbing down and pandering to the toxic elements of the playerbase? Strong leadership, GG.