Which ones are better for Dunmer, Tribunal or Three Daedra??

ClockworkMageofSeht

What do you think, which ones are better for Dunmer, worshipping to Tribunal or three Daedra(Boethiah, Azura and Mephala). I am not sure for Azura but Mephala and Boethiah have more bad sides than their good sides, I know Daedric Princes do not have ethic unlike mortals and Aedra but I think Boethiah and Mephala are near to be bad more than to be good. Also they are stronger in Tribunal's rule that wee see in ESO.

Supreme_Atromancer

I think its no coincidence that the two people most known for their daedra worship (Reachmen, Dunmer) live in harsh, unforgiving, marginal worlds where survivial is by no means certain.

When what would become the Dunmer first arrived in Vvardenfell, they were faced with a dangerous, unforgiving land with giant insects, bull-sized, bipedal dinosaurs, pterodactyls, fire and death everywhere. In such a landscape, the moral luxuries the soft, fat Imperial Divines represent are not something you can afford. Entities which embody cunning, self-actualisation, and self-preservation probably have more to offer in terms of survival and flourishing than generosity, forgiveness and temperance, say.

Perhaps the transition to The Tribunal represents the needs of a people at a time where they were more established, had mastered their world, and were more connected to the rest of Tamriel.

Now, I might be crucified for saying this on a forum for Elder Scrolls lore, but if the question were, instead, which were more interesting, I'd probably say the Daedra!

TX12001rwb17_ESO

The Tribunal is still the lesser of two evils and because of they are better for the Dunmer, they at least have compassion for their followers, Daedra on the otherhand have alien morale and don't care in the slightest.

PrayingSeraph

Hmmm I suppose it depends on how you look at it. From a secular societal point of view, a good case for the Tribunal could easily be made.

However from a religious philosophical point of view, I would lean much more towards the Daedra. The Daedric Princes are true deities each with a realm of oblivion, while the Tribunal are essentially false gods. Yes I know one could argue that but the Tribunal don't generate their divine powers but rather have to siphon the power of a dead god continually hence they are fake gods imo.

Boethiah and Mephala are definitely darker Princes but Azura is the most benevolent of Princes and honestly a pretty awesome deity to follow in the entire setting.

VaranisArano

It's impossible to judge from ESO alone without considering TES 3 Morrowind and what little we know from Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC.

I look at ESO's Morrowind and see that Vivec has deliberately failed his people. It's one thing to leave Baar Dau in place knowing that eventually your power might fail. It's entirely another to see that Baar Dau has very nearly destroyed Vvardenfell already and still leave it up there.

For me, the answer comes down to how you feel about worshipping false gods. ESO is somewhat of a golden age for an independent Morrowind under the Tribunal rule. Do you want that relative prosperity, but under the rule of "gods" who secretly draw their power from the Heart of Lorkhan and who start failing as soon as they lose access to it? Do you want Vivec, knowing that for all that he's the protector of Vvardenfell, he also left Baar Dau there which eventually results in the erupt of Red Mountain and the destruction of Red Year?

There's a reason why the Dunmer turned to the Reclamations by 4E 200 in the Dragonborn DLC. The Tribunal, for all their glory in ESO, utterly failed in the long run because their power was never really theirs, only stolen from an outside source.

TwinLamps

Id guess Tribunal is better for Dunmer.
But not sure what is worse for Argonians, Tribunal or Daedra.

Karm1cOne

Daedra are at least constant. They are what they are and never change. Almalexia has gone insane over her time as a "diety" and Sotha Sil has abandoned his people for his created world. The "best" of them, Vivec, holds his own people hostage.x

Destai

Love the Dunmer.

Short term, maybe the Tribunal. They more intimately understand mortal needs and use their power to address them - in their own flawed way. Sotha Sil's goal of using Clockwork to destroy the Daedra would certainly benefit the Dunmer and other mortal races.

I think long term, Daedra. They're truly gods and have their own power. There's a sense of constancy from them and their non-mortal existence gives them a different perspective.

Both subject the general populace to their machinations and lust for power, so while both are useful, they both have great drawbacks.

Iccotak

VaranisArano wrote: »

It's impossible to judge from ESO alone without considering TES 3 Morrowind and what little we know from Skyrim's Dragonborn DLC.

I look at ESO's Morrowind and see that Vivec has deliberately failed his people. It's one thing to leave Baar Dau in place knowing that eventually your power might fail. It's entirely another to see that Baar Dau has very nearly destroyed Vvardenfell already and still leave it up there.

For me, the answer comes down to how you feel about worshipping false gods. ESO is somewhat of a golden age for an independent Morrowind under the Tribunal rule. Do you want that relative prosperity, but under the rule of "gods" who secretly draw their power from the Heart of Lorkhan and who start failing as soon as they lose access to it? Do you want Vivec, knowing that for all that he's the protector of Vvardenfell, he also left Baar Dau there which eventually results in the erupt of Red Mountain and the destruction of Red Year?

There's a reason why the Dunmer turned to the Reclamations by 4E 200 in the Dragonborn DLC. The Tribunal, for all their glory in ESO, utterly failed in the long run because their power was never really theirs, only stolen from an outside source.

Arrogance - Vivec City was founded on arrogance. They faced the consequence of this choice eventually

colossalvoids

It's a question without one certain answer. Both defined dunmer society and culture, both were kind of different faces of the same coin in a sense.

To me personally dunmeri represent humans and their history the most, quest for an ultimate power, control and truths, treachery, ultimate failures and always struggle. Ones might wanted the best for their people, sacrificing all they loved and what made them themselves, their glue so to say, going the way of failure and probably even realising it from the start (hey Sotha). Can't say for certain in a moment what would be better when dead god presenting you his heart bleeding with unknown power in his molten hands.

kaisernick

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

However from a religious philosophical point of view, I would lean much more towards the Daedra. The Daedric Princes are true deities each with a realm of oblivion, while the Tribunal are essentially false gods. Yes I know one could argue that but the Tribunal don't generate their divine powers but rather have to siphon the power of a dead god continually hence they are fake gods imo.

well technally one of the tribunal has his own realm.
However i find it intresting that after all the crap the dunmer go through after morrowind they still worship either, i think if i was one id say to hell with both as neither have been helpful in the end.

PrayingSeraph

kaisernick wrote: »

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

However from a religious philosophical point of view, I would lean much more towards the Daedra. The Daedric Princes are true deities each with a realm of oblivion, while the Tribunal are essentially false gods. Yes I know one could argue that but the Tribunal don't generate their divine powers but rather have to siphon the power of a dead god continually hence they are fake gods imo.

well technally one of the tribunal has his own realm.
However i find it intresting that after all the crap the dunmer go through after morrowind they still worship either, i think if i was one id say to hell with both as neither have been helpful in the end.

Yes but not created through his own power. Sotha and the other tribunals are fakers; a deception. Out of the 3...Vivec disturbs me the most tbh. I can't tell if he's a ridiculously arrogant megalomaniac or a malicious despot.

I think Azura is a pretty benevolent deity all things considered. Frankly, the Aedra have done more questionable things(Unleashing genocidal Pelinal) than Azura has.

RaddlemanNumber7

Return to Veloth, reclaim the teachings of Mephala and Boethia, resume the Psijic Endeavour and strive to pass Lorkhan's Test.

Aramithius

PrayingSeraph wrote: »

Hmmm I suppose it depends on how you look at it. From a secular societal point of view, a good case for the Tribunal could easily be made.

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Return to Veloth, reclaim the teachings of Mephala and Boethia, resume the Psijic Endeavour and strive to pass Lorkhan's Test.

I veer between these two perspectives. The Tribunal (and the virtues they espouse, think the Seven Graces) are useful for a society that is relatively stable, and promotes that stability. Almost stasis, in some ways, which I'll get to.

Then there's the Good Daedra, which are useful for overthrow of authority (Boeathiah), assassination (Mephala) and uncertainty (Azura). all things that are useful for a society in revolt and change. The Good Daedra were there to lead the Chimer into rebellion and out of Summerset, and were less necessary when settling on Morrowind. It's posible that the House of Troubles fills a role in the adversity of the land too, which they can do regardless of which version of the Three are actively venerated.

Then there's what I and a few others call Vivec's Golden Path, which makes me think that the Tribunal (and possibly just Vivec) had a far longer game going. Yes, "golden path" is a Dune reference. Basically, in Dune, Paul Atreidies' son transforms himself into a god and imposes a millennia-long rule over humanity before dying in a cataclysm that spreads humanity among the stars, ensuring their survival. The Tribunal, meanwhile, transformed thmeselves into gods, and imposed a millennia-long rule over the Dunmer before dying in a cataclysm, that spreads the Dunmer across Tamriel, following the events of the Red Year.

The parallel is just too much for me to ignore, and so I tend to think that the Tribunal is probably the "best" for the Dunmer, if only because they want to ensure that some form of Dunmer society carries on. They're just willing to break a lot of eggs to ensure that particular omlette turns out ok.

Destai

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Return to Veloth, reclaim the teachings of Mephala and Boethia, resume the Psijic Endeavour and strive to pass Lorkhan's Test.

This right here changed my mind - the Daedra are better.

Crazyprophet

The golden age of Dunmeri culture was during the rule of the Tribunal. There's no question that they were the better deities.

Karm1cOne

Crazyprophet wrote: »

The golden age of Dunmeri culture was during the rule of the Tribunal. There's no question that they were the better deities.

I would argue that red mountain being dormant, weak neighbors, and the "disappearance" of the dwemer are more of the causes of the dunmer golden age than the tribunal.