ZOS sold crutches to bad players for too long, now they’re unhappy with balance

xDeusEJRx

Jayserix wrote: »

xDeusEJRx wrote: »

Zabagad wrote: »

Really - don't go to much into the details - I just want to point out that MagSorcs are in favour of the current situation, bc of Alfiq and willpower, but that's not necessary a proof that MagSorcs are generally OP. I don't say it is not! I only doubt that this is the proof.

If ZOS had choosen other sets, maybe it would look different...

I only think sorcs are super strong right now because they have the best mobility of any class, even stam classes (with streak/ball of lightning) plus a combination of the best resource returning ability(dark conversion). They can just spam their streaks and dark conversion to heal and get magicka back and passively gain magic from the return over time. Most other classes don't have resource restore quite that effective. Since they have a seemingly indefinite source of magicka they can streak as much as they want and no one can catch them if they don't wanna be caught, so they can run and deal damage while no one can keep up. Even during the proc meta sorcs still had this as their safety net (double streak and dark conversion), streak/ball of lightning can counter most procs because they create a huge distance, especially if you double streak

I want to live in your world

Lol, I think that is part of the reason why they're so op. A lot of zaan/vate builds or heavy attack builds can't even be effective on most mag sorcs cause they just streak and break the effective range. The only issue is dot procs whereas sorcs can just conversion spam, which most I fight do anyways. Not many people in pvp run gap closers or anything to keep up with sorcs so they just double streak and no one can touch them. At least that's how things are on PS4 in the main campaign, they've been strong even in the proc meta. That plus engine guardian to help their resource gain on top of it. Not having engine guardian anymore will hurt but they still have a strong utility kit, not even gonna mention their offensive kit cause it's obviously powerful

Zabagad

My post was just to point out the "new sorc OP" discussion is not valid in my opinion.

I could counter the "old nerf sorc" discussion and your arguments for example by mention NB with shade and cloak, but that fight is already fought in so many other threads...

Joy_Division

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

Fawn4287 wrote: »

Firstmep wrote: »

Balanced more appropietly? Class inbalances are far more obvious in the current no-proc environment, then they were before,
which is no easy feat.

Classes haven’t been drastically changed for years, however this gross imbalance is only now visible and obvious thanks to gear being standardised. If you look back many people including myself have made posts about the obscenities of mist form, streak and how magsorc is the only class with both a delayed (curse) and proc (c frag) damage ability most of which we met with overwhealming number of people who disagreed and were oblivious to until recently thanks to far greater equality in gear.

We disagreed with you not because we think classes are balanced or because there isn't a problem. It's because you have posted many nerf threads and I disagree with 90% of the things you claim to be overperforming and need to be nerfed.

Streak has been in the game since launch. I've learned how to deal with it. It's fine. But the noticeable imbalances that have arisen and it becomes harder to deal with Streak and sorcerers in general since people who come onto these forums and for years insisted that my class passives and abilities need to be nerfed. Stop with the (class) nerfs. It's one of the reasons for the imbalances in the first place because it just makes certain classes lower tier and prompts so many people to go looking for proc sets to make up for the losses.

Magsorc has always been one of the strongest classes, especially solo and now people can see that. Streak was never a hard CC and didn’t have anywhere near the range it currently has, it now has far too much utility on one skill which is why sorcs can run such a complete tool kit. It sounds like you are aware that with everyone wearing the same low tier gear it now shows how grossly overperforming magsorc is in the current climate and are running around throwing trying to make excuses as to why it should stay the same with an army of people calling for nerfs? Personally I hate nothing about magsorc other than the 1 button survival of streak that allows a build without major expedition to outrun basically every other build in the game.

1. Mag sorc was bad PvP and PvE before 1.6. Bad enough that people literally dropped the kill 20 Sorcerer quest. People conveniently forget this, which is why I don;t trust half the things people claim to remember from earlier versions of the game. If you don't believe me, search "negate monkey" prior to Mar 2015.

2. What do you mean Streak was never a hard CC? It used to disorient (which went through block) before it stunned. In fact, it used to be bugged and CCed more than 6 people, back when the class was considered bottom tier.

3. When I was class rep, the biggest complaint we received from sorcerer players was lack of bar space. Their kit is not nearly as complete as you think it is because if a player does try to use streak for things like stunning and movement speed, these are awkward options that good opponents can take advantage of.

4. If removing gear options all of a sudden makes a certain spec stand out, that means it is the gear that is the problem. This is a temporary and artificial environment, and all your nerfs will do is unnecessarily nerf a class just at the time the gear is once again allowed and things return to normal.

5. I once ran a build in which I ran down a streaking mag sorc with the slowest spec in the game (Magplar). Sorcerers die all the time in Cyrodiil and in BGs and in duels. Making hyperbolic statements will not help create the balance you are seeking to create.

Sahidom

A good product sells itself. When a company sells a product purely based on the candy coating of their product than its a telling sign they've dismissed product quality entirely. MMO are no different, and player loyalty is earned through product quality with acceptable in nuances. What ZOS decision making behavior reminds me of a junkies thought process, but high on sales where they kept have-assing things, stealing from Peter to pay Paul, to keep their rush going. Unfortunately, they've twisted and changed their original vision on the combat system. I would not call this a positive evolution. The creature combat lead at least has done a good job with PVE challenging mechanics but the rest need to sober up and regress classkit skills IF their going to continue to release sets that goes against the reasons why they nerfed weapon and class skills.

AureleosRex

The tanky builds and meta haven't gone anywhere, they're just different now.

I've encountered several HP regen and HP stacking 1vXers that can still perma heal, perma block, and just outlast people without danger.

Even if the lag wasn't an issue and the game wasn't basically turn based, the CP changes have just made tank builds worse.

How?

You don't have to worry about building for resources or regen barely at all anymore.

The new CP isn't balanced at all concerning PVP, but it'll take a while for people to really notice.

Syrusthevirus187

@Joy_Division lol you just reminded me I used to drop the kill sorcs quest in the early days. It would take a month to complete.

Ghostbane

Joy_Division wrote: »

2. What do you mean Streak was never a hard CC? It used to disorient (which went through block) before it stunned. In fact, it used to be bugged and CCed more than 6 people, back when the class was considered bottom tier.

I thought the original intention was that the ability could hit as many people as possible, but then it was nerfed / capped to 6 because of Sorcs getting so much ultimate so quickly.

Streak does not exactly have a nerf history like the Greek tragedy of the Templar class abilities, but it is defiantly up there. The ability has either been too much or too little. With the increase cost penalty, and the advantages it has now, I would say it is as balanced as it has ever been.

Further to echo to old memes of the past, a discussion was started on the balancing of gameplay/procs and we have dissolved into a Nerf Sorc/Streak thread. Some things never change

Joy_Division

Ghostbane wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

2. What do you mean Streak was never a hard CC? It used to disorient (which went through block) before it stunned. In fact, it used to be bugged and CCed more than 6 people, back when the class was considered bottom tier.

I thought the original intention was that the ability could hit as many people as possible, but then it was nerfed / capped to 6 because of Sorcs getting so much ultimate so quickly.

Streak does not exactly have a nerf history like the Greek tragedy of the Templar class abilities, but it is defiantly up there. The ability has either been too much or too little. With the increase cost penalty, and the advantages it has now, I would say it is as balanced as it has ever been.

Further to echo to old memes of the past, a discussion was started on the balancing of gameplay/procs and we have dissolved into a Nerf Sorc/Streak thread. Some things never change

Where are the Spiderman memes and their creator when we need them?