Recent PvP changes

Waseem

Came back to ESO and would like to express my opinion in the recent changes:

1)Group size is now 12 instead 24: that's stupid Cyrodiil was meant for large scale PvP
2) You can only heal your group members: this is beyond stupidity, this is an insult to both the players and the whole faction based PvP

These changes has to be reverted immediately.

[snip]

BRING WROBEL BACK

[Edited to remove Bashing and Rude Comments]

ThePedge

1. Cyro population size didn't decrease, PvP is on the same scale.
2. Very good change.

Ralamil

[Edited to remove Bashing and Rude Comments]

The forum moderates care more about the health of the forums than the devs do about the health of the game. Amusing.

DemonNinja

I am mind blown away by their choice to remove healing outside of groups. Its terrible and should be reverted.

Tommy_The_Gun

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Ralamil

Godspeed wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

I would settle for learning from their mistakes and not doing *** like this again (after fixing things). And more specifically, not doing *** like this AND THEN HAVING NO OTHER COMMENT TO EVEN ATTEMPT TO JUSTIFY THEIR ACTIONS.

Because that's really their most egregious offense. Test one thing, make a separate change which is demonstrably not helping, for a vague reasoning of "we liked the behavioral changes" and then not call out what those behavioral changes were. The only ZOS employees that seem active anymore are the mods, and they're sure not providing any answers.

Joy_Division

Godspeed wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Seriously doubt it was his call. He has his hands full with combat. The entire dev team either convinced themselves this was a good idea or were convinced by certain self-interested parties who make money farming people who can no longer heal themselves.

Pauwer

These changes are stupid and make pvp hard/impossible to new players and players without guild pvp groups. Those guild groups do not invite "randoms" anymore, because there is no room. I see same people posting lfg in zone chat all night and day without success. This is some toxic game "developing".

Pauwer

Also, the game performance is still crap. The whole thing is just a massive failure.

VaranisArano

I'm looking ahead to Midyear Mayhem when lots of mostly PVE players come to Cyrodiil to quest or PVP for their event tickets.

How exactly does ZOS see this working out?

Do they expect questers to group up and do their quests en masse so they can heal each other if attacked? Or is this literally "You're on your own against the gankers, get good!" from ZOS?

Do they expect the number of LFG raid leaders to skyrocket to account for all the players who are going to need a group? In past years, my PVP guild would fill our raid with PUGs. Now, we've been cut down to 12 players and there's no room for non-guildies...and honestly, no wiggle room for bringing squishy PVEers into the group like there used to be.

Do they really think that ball groups aren't going to farm the daylights out of PUGs and squishy PVEers? Or if they're okay with the farming, do they think that's a great PVP experience for newer players?

I sure hope ZOS has thought about this.

Faded

Joy_Division wrote: »

Godspeed wrote: »

[Quoted post was removed]

Seriously doubt it was his call. He has his hands full with combat. The entire dev team either convinced themselves this was a good idea or were convinced by certain self-interested parties who make money farming people who can no longer heal themselves.

If that rumor is true it's hilarious and pathetic, but for all changes to gameplay the buck still stops with Wheeler.

Can't imagine he's happy with what Cyrodiil has become. And then they give us we liked the behavior change and my sympathy ends.

relentless_turnip

Perhaps the compromise would be to instead make the radius for healing an ally very small. 7m maybe... As you can't control who you are healing anyway as smart healing kicks in(aside from the few conals) this way we can heal anyone but it only calculates a small radius around the player. I think to ensure a net gain on the number of calculations we would have to stop the same heals stacking i.e only one regen, reapplying refreshes the effect. Possibly an option to have self healing only within the options.

techyeshic

relentless_turnip wrote: »

Perhaps the compromise would be to instead make the radius for healing an ally very small. 7m maybe... As you can't control who you are healing anyway as smart healing kicks in(aside from the few conals) this way we can heal anyone but it only calculates a small radius around the player. I think to ensure a net gain on the number of calculations we would have to stop the same heals stacking i.e only one regen, reapplying refreshes the effect. Possibly an option to have self healing only within the options.

I'd be ok with all kinds of options if they actually worked. Right now it's terrible, and you have to build for performance issues.

Be tanky, cause you won't break free from a fear, you won't get you purge to fire before dots and siege you can't see. You hear those snipes coming and not hurting, but they will eventually.

Don't use a gap closer because you'll get desync and rubber band so build some speed; which also makes a great defense cause anyone trying to catch you might screw themselves if they dare try a gap closer; if they can even target you near LOS.

Equip proc sets so you don't have to worry about activating abilities, and free up building tanky and mash that heal button.

Luckily they made health scaling heals so no worries about bringing a healer in that's out LFGing since they are now useless alone.

GrimTheReaper45

Again, very disappointed to hear about these changes. Would prefer if they were reverted and zos focused on spreading out the 24 man groups by working on altering objectives and rewards to encourage groups.

JayKwellen

VaranisArano wrote: »

I sure hope ZOS has thought about this.

lol

They've either thought about it and don't care, or it didn't cross their mind at all. Both are probably equally likely at this point I suppose.

You're right though, Midyear Mayhem is going to be an absolute clown show this year. Cyrodiil gonna be filled with PUGs who can't heal each other and who can't get into groups because the few crowns that are out there will already be full.

I can't wait to see the forums. I honestly hope every single one of them comes here and makes a new thread about it.

Personally I don't even join groups anymore and usually try to maintain distance from zergs since it's not really my thing -- but I'm still able to see how there are people who do enjoy it, particularly people who play for the social aspect too and enjoy just hanging out in huge groups and talking to guildies/randoms. I don't think they should be punished for some nebulous "behavioral change", one which can't even be explained or quantified by the developers, which has had zero discernible improvement to performance.

I can only imagine how awful this probably is for any low level/new person coming into Cyrodiil. Somehow they're supposed to just fend for themselves (likely without even knowing how to if they're new), and often they can't even find groups to take them because the new smaller group size means most guild groups these days have closed up to PUGs since there's often not enough space. New PvP players in particular have been completely discarded and left out in the cold by these recent development decisions, and out of everyone they're the ones who are suffering the most for it.

An oddly anti-social and anti-growth development choice I must say. I always thought that it was an imperative to foster the next generation, afterall who's gonna keep playing your game if every new player ends up quitting in frustration because you've specifically gone out of your way to make their experience as terrible as possible?

It's just truly bizarre man.

Waseem

My favorite PvP guild relies on the group of 24 players.

we always had the healer, DD, and tank and in addition to that,
we had the hilarious jokes DD
we had the healer who heals the healer
we had the scout
we had the siege guinea pig

NOW IT'S ALL DOWN TO 12

NO MORE PROPER COMMUNICATION IN GUILD DISCUSSIONS
MARGINALLY LESS ORGANIZATION
PVP IS NO LONGER FUN
BUT A STRESS INDUCING EXPERIENCE THAT WE'RE BETTER OFF WITHOUT

Godspeed

It’s sad how this game started out as one of if not the best pvp mmo on the market.

Then the lighting patch came. Now a few years and many changes including the most recent later. ESO is now the worst mmo pvp wise on the market.

VaranisArano

Godspeed wrote: »

It’s sad how this game started out as one of if not the best pvp mmo on the market.

Then the lighting patch came. Now a few years and many changes including the most recent later. ESO is now the worst mmo pvp wise on the market.

Yeah, I mean, I can understand the bind ZOS was in. Can you really be a great PVP MMO if your system is publicly vulnerable to hacking and cheating? Meteor spam makes for bad publicity.

It's just a pity that their solution of moving everything server-side seems to have been very much less than ideal in the long term.

redspecter23

The most confusing part of this change was the "reasoning". ZOS declared that they found no meaningful performance impact from any of the tests and that they would not be making any changes. In the very next breath, they announced the 12 member cap and healing limitation.

I must have missed how "no changes" translated into 2 changes.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

VaranisArano wrote: »

Godspeed wrote: »

It’s sad how this game started out as one of if not the best pvp mmo on the market.

Then the lighting patch came. Now a few years and many changes including the most recent later. ESO is now the worst mmo pvp wise on the market.

Yeah, I mean, I can understand the bind ZOS was in. Can you really be a great PVP MMO if your system is publicly vulnerable to hacking and cheating? Meteor spam makes for bad publicity.

It's just a pity that their solution of moving everything server-side seems to have been very much less than ideal in the long term.

There's always gonna be ppl cheating but a better way would be a client side anticheat and some actual GM's

ThePedge

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

Ryath_Waylander

Hmm and are you a healer pray tell?

Waseem

Ryath_Waylander wrote: »

Hmm and are you a healer pray tell?

I am a player, apparently speaking on behalf the thousands of players who already quit PvP after playing for YEARS thanks to reduction in groups size

ExistingRug61

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

@ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

ThePedge

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

@ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
"Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

Around 80% of the fights I'm in is just me or my group vs the other faction(s). That's how we like to play, we play as 2-6 and fight larger groups or zergs. Not always to much success but it's what fun to us.

Are we "elitists", I don't think so. However most of the time you still lose purely based on numbers. Before this change you could barely kill anyone in a zerg because they could get healed by up to like 20 people around them all with Resto staves.
Numbers won fights, not skill, not co-ordination, just pure numbers.

Defending keeps outnumbered was impossible as every enemy you attacked had multiple healers and purges.
Now, if that player is "solo" and doesn't react, just tried to keep sieging while under attack, he dies as he should.

ExistingRug61

ThePedge wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

@ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
"Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

Around 80% of the fights I'm in is just me or my group vs the other faction(s). That's how we like to play, we play as 2-6 and fight larger groups or zergs. Not always to much success but it's what fun to us.

Are we "elitists", I don't think so. However most of the time you still lose purely based on numbers. Before this change you could barely kill anyone in a zerg because they could get healed by up to like 20 people around them all with Resto staves.
Numbers won fights, not skill, not co-ordination, just pure numbers.

Defending keeps outnumbered was impossible as every enemy you attacked had multiple healers and purges.
Now, if that player is "solo" and doesn't react, just tried to keep sieging while under attack, he dies as he should.

I guess this comes from a difference in our play experience.

Some context on how I enjoy playing:
Most of the time in Cyrodiil I am "ungrouped". I say that rather than "solo" as I am not a "solo" player in that I am not trying to be out there on my own, but neither do I normally run around with the big group or faction stack. In fact most of the time I end up with a similar number of players as you group with (2-6). The difference is how we end up in these situations, and the fact that where you are always with the same group of 2-6 so being in a group is no issue, whereas I am normally around a small number of players as well, but those players are constantly changing.
Also its not like I am trying to just be a healer, but neither am I a pure dps with backbar resto occasionally tossing out regen. (although I do have backbar resto due to no other option). Rather I am somewhat of a hybrid dps/heals (I normally have a couple of group heals and buffs and used to have radiating not rapid regen for the same reason), not specialising in either but able to be adequate at both. It meant that when I find myself with some other random players I could flexibly fill into whatever seemed to be lacking, ie: if there were other healers around then I would be offensive, but if heals were lacking I would on the fly swap more into that role.

It sounds like you have a group that you probably play with consistently and you all want to do a similar thing (correct me if I am mistaken), which is great. My play is generally less consistent and at inconsistent times, often at lower populations (Aus, XBox), and while I do have some guilds with people I can run with, a lot of the time I might not sync up with them time wise or other times if I'm just on for a bit I might just want to not bother with that and go to wherever I think a fun fight may be.

Generally speaking I avoid the faction stack and big group fights (big blob fights are not a great place for my melee nightblade to shine, and lag is especially punishing as I am squishy as) and instead prefer to do things like jump around between keeps that are under attack by the other smaller enemy groups or running off to take outposts and towns, generally ending up finding maybe a handful of other players (who constantly change) from my alliance doing the same. And in that situation, despite the fact that we weren't grouped, previously you could still work with and try to co-ordinate with those few other players around you to defeat an enemy group. And in such situation it was possible to defeat a larger enemy group (when defending anyway) provided you played together well and weren't too heavily outnumbered (in which case as you point out large numbers just win). This is where being a sort of hybrid dps/healer build is useful, as I never really know what sort of players I will end up being around, but I want to be able to assist them in the most useful way regardless. Which isn't really possible anymore. I can't just rock up at a keep to help defend that happens to have a few other players and go into "healer mode" because I notice that the other couple of players are dps focused.

I know in some of the other threads this sort of example has been a bit dismissed as a bit of a contrived or specific example, but really, this is what I (previously) spent most my time doing (and enjoying) in Cyrodiil. It's also why when people just try to come back with the "just group up" as a solution I get a bit put off as I know from past experience that doesn't work for me as it doesn't allow me to do what I want as much so I don't enjoy playing as much.

I mean sure I could somehow try to join a group with the players I find at whichever place I happen to end up at, but then leave group a few minutes later when I go off on my own way again, only to have to repeat that whole process again with another different couple of players I find at the next location. Its just too much hassle, and sometime not really feasible (trying to group up with a few other people while you're trying madly to defend a town or keep from a bigger group for instance).

VaranisArano

ThePedge wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

@ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
"Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

Imagine thinking that 12 players is a "big group" for PVP healers who used to be able to heal every ally near them on the battlefield.

Problem not avoided, when we consider the problem that healers are outraged to be massively nerfed and forced into limited groups.

But maybe I'm mistaken and those big primetime fights over Chalman, BRK, and Aleswell were actually just a 12 v 12.

Joy_Division

VaranisArano wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

@ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
"Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

Imagine thinking that 12 players is a "big group" for PVP healers who used to be able to heal every ally near them on the battlefield.

Problem not avoided, when we consider the problem that healers are outraged to be massively nerfed and forced into limited groups.

But maybe I'm mistaken and those big primetime fights over Chalman, BRK, and Aleswell were actually just a 12 v 12.

If they typed "I don;t understand" after you explained it multiple times quite clearly, they're just concerned with being able to kill people unable to receive heals from their allies.

ThePedge

Joy_Division wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

@ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
"Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

Imagine thinking that 12 players is a "big group" for PVP healers who used to be able to heal every ally near them on the battlefield.

Problem not avoided, when we consider the problem that healers are outraged to be massively nerfed and forced into limited groups.

But maybe I'm mistaken and those big primetime fights over Chalman, BRK, and Aleswell were actually just a 12 v 12.

If they typed "I don;t understand" after you explained it multiple times quite clearly, they're just concerned with being able to kill people unable to receive heals from their allies.

Everyone can receive healing from allies, they just have to join a group.

Healers can still heal allies, they just have to join a group.

They made a change and now healing is more balanced is Cyrodiil, sorry you life isn't as easy anymore but joining a group isn't hard.

Pauwer

ThePedge wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

@ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
"Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

Imagine thinking that 12 players is a "big group" for PVP healers who used to be able to heal every ally near them on the battlefield.

Problem not avoided, when we consider the problem that healers are outraged to be massively nerfed and forced into limited groups.

But maybe I'm mistaken and those big primetime fights over Chalman, BRK, and Aleswell were actually just a 12 v 12.

If they typed "I don;t understand" after you explained it multiple times quite clearly, they're just concerned with being able to kill people unable to receive heals from their allies.

Everyone can receive healing from allies, they just have to join a group.

Healers can still heal allies, they just have to join a group.

They made a change and now healing is more balanced is Cyrodiil, sorry you life isn't as easy anymore but joining a group isn't hard.

I couldn't disagree more. Joining groups via zone chat is almost impossible now. When someone finally invites, you are most likely to see 0 healers in group. And this is the truth, amen.

VaranisArano

ThePedge wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

ExistingRug61 wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

ThePedge wrote: »

2. Very good change.

I will disagree. Strongly.

This change has divided the player-base (to a point I have never seen in ESO or any other mmo game). You don't do that in MMOs. You do not divide player base like that, especially if you want new players to join PvP. Remember, ESO was successful because for the most part it stayed true to its motto: "Play as you want" This change however... umm.... kinda nope.

It is very weird and inconsistent. I mean, you can not heal other players, but you can res them or place a camp for them. Also, if they have for example Vicious Death on them and are about to die, you can not heal them... but you still get damaged by Vicious Death proc.

No cross-healing means that there should also be no cross-dmg too...

^ Logic behind this is the same as behind cross-healing removal. I hope that maybe it shows how weird and out of place cross healing removal feels like... (Yeah, imagine if group could not deal dmg to solo players and vice-versa... ).

Also, I would kinda understand this change if it brought some reasonable server performance improvement... but it did not, performance is the same as before (kinda bad), and on top of it we can not heal each other. Pretty much only ones that think this was good idea are "old stagers" elitists type of players who for whatever reason think that Cyro is just their's guild's playground, and no one else is welcome.

Sorry for any accidental offence (if there was any). I am just expressing my opinion.

Performance is still bad, yes, but it's best it's been since Harrowstorm.

You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective. I see nothing wrong with that.

You can play a redguard nightblade healer, of course. Is it a good idea? No.

You can play solo in Cyrodiil, you can play solo as a healer in Cyrodiil, is it a good idea? No.

They slightly raised the skill floor for healing in Cyrodiil in that you now need to be able to join and follow a group.

ThePedge
"You can still play the game as you want, you just might not be effective"

I disagree. In my opinion the change to disallow ungrouped healing differs from all other changes like skill buffs/nerfs etc in that it makes a certain role/playstyle impossible not simply ineffective.

Prior to the change to healing, if you wanted to play as healer or hybrid dps/healer but not be in a group (for which there are many reasons, for examples see https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/7067439#Comment_7067439 which I'm sure you have read but linking it for anyone else who is interested) then you could. And you could pick any race/class build you want but it would vary in effectiveness, as you point out.

So yes, I could be a redguard nightblade healer if I wanted. Sure it might not be optimal but I could do it and still perform the role that I want to.
And for many they would be happy to do that because how they have fun in the game is tied to the role they play and the type of character they play so they are willing to give up a bit of effectiveness or have a harder time as long as they can meet those things.

Following the healing change it is basically impossible to play as a healer without being in a group. Not ineffective, but impossible.
So if that style of play is how a player primarily enjoyed playing, then they are out of luck. It's not like they can choose to do it but be less effective, they simply can no longer choose to play like that at all.

In my case I am one of those players. I was happy to keep playing the way I wanted despite it becoming comparatively weaker over time (especially compared to others). My preferred character in Cyrodiil is a hybrid dps/healer melee magblade and even though I am less successful on it than other options its still the character I want to play. I don't mind that its less effective, for me its about having fun. But, for many of the reasons listed in the previously linked posts, I prefer to play ungrouped. Primarily, I enjoy the freedom and independence it brings, but still like interacting and being able to assist with my fellow alliance-mates when and how I choose.

The healing change prevents this character from functioning how I want it to. Could I change the build or join groups to address this? Sure, but that would mean the character is no longer fulfilling the role and feel want it to. I would no longer have fun playing it.
So I don't. Play that is. Or hardly at all since the change. Not that not playing is to make point or anything, but simply: The change means I no longer enjoy playing like I used to, so I don't feel the desire to play.

So while I get that this change may not negatively impact you, in fact it may indirectly benefit your rate of success because it has disadvantaged some of your opponents, please understand that for others out there like myself it has meant we can no longer enjoy the game as we previously could. Consider what your position would be if ZOS made a some other restriction that simply made your preferred playstyle(s) impossible.

Plus I just don't see what the benefits to the game as a whole are.
Performance? ZOS have said this wasn't improved. Beyond the comment by ZOS while there have been comments both ways its all anecdotal and it doesn't really seem like anything has changed.
My smart heals now always target me when solo? Surely there is a better way to achieve this (ie: the skills themselves), rather than making skills no longer function as they are described or were designed.
What else is there? Faction stack is weakened, groups are empowered? This just seems like a nerf or buff depending on your playstyle so is a bit of a wash.

I guess that's why I don't understand the outrage.
"Solo" healing makes no sense, because if you're alone then who are you healing?
If you're with a big group of your own faction, just join their group, no? Problem avoided.

Imagine thinking that 12 players is a "big group" for PVP healers who used to be able to heal every ally near them on the battlefield.

Problem not avoided, when we consider the problem that healers are outraged to be massively nerfed and forced into limited groups.

But maybe I'm mistaken and those big primetime fights over Chalman, BRK, and Aleswell were actually just a 12 v 12.

[Quoted post was removed]

Are you continuing to misrepresent the healing nerf because your 4-man squad benefits from ZOS nerfing their opponents?

Ungrouped healers went from being able to heal ally near them to no one else.

Grouped healers went from being able to heal every ally near them to only 11 other people.

That's not dramatics. That's simply what happened. [snip]

"Just join a group" doesn't avoid or solve either problem when we look at this from the perspective of a PVP healer who wants to support ALL their nearby allies, not that of a 4-man small scale PVPer who typically fights by themselves and who's opponents got nerfed by ZOS.

"I don't understand the outrage."

Well, no. You don't. To quote Upton Sinclair, “It is difficult to get a man to understand something, when his salary depends on his not understanding it.”

[Edited to remove Baiting]