Javelins: A New Skill Line!

Vayln_Ninetails

GrimTheReaper45 wrote: »

Would take it over a new class

Agreed as well!

Vayln_Ninetails

Raltin wrote: »

@Vayln_Ninetails wrote: »

I like your idea.

However, I would hope if they add spears at the same time they add a magicka line.

Magicka has kinda been forced to use the same 2 staves for 6 years. Where Stam has so much variety in weapons.

No argument there, as much as I want javelins, magicka is in dire need of some weapon variety.

I'm glad we can agree! I dig your idea for spears, but magicka needs so much more variety. We should have staves for each school of magic.

Stahlor

Make the skill line a bit more for tanks. Give it a skill to pull enemies - like a harpoon and passives for resistance and mitigation. Stop that frost staff tanking *** and give it back to DDs.

Raltin

Stahlor wrote: »

Make the skill line a bit more for tanks. Give it a skill to pull enemies - like a harpoon and passives for resistance and mitigation. Stop that frost staff tanking *** and give it back to DDs.

I was thinking of something similar, though in terms of pulling, the silver leash morph of the dawnguard crossbow ability from the fighter's guild line already does that, and the templar javelin applies a knockback, so the difficulty of thinking of a more original concept for a pull for this skill line is ramped up.

NoMoreChillies

Off Tank/bard magicka Spear + Shield. Shield toss would be awesome

Raltin

From feedback given, I have created the Palisade Ability! Check it out and provide your thoughts!

Stahlor

Raltin wrote: »

...the silver leash morph of the dawnguard crossbow ability from the fighter's guild line already does that..

Silver leash is stam and too expensive to use it, especially when running without a healer. So this new javelin skill should be magicka, or have at least a magicka morph version.

idk

The least likely weapon lines are the ones that require a new weapon design as it would require a new graphic design per motif in the game. Also, I would suggest a magicka weapon line is more likely than a stamina one since there are already three stam DPS weapon lines and only one magicka one. The original justification for the lack of stam morphs iof class skills s no longer applicable.

Vayln_Ninetails

NoMoreChillies wrote: »

Off Tank/bard magicka Spear + Shield. Shield toss would be awesome

Bard cannot be a magicka skill line. We can already be bards in game. Sorry.

hizium

I'd love to see more weapons skill lines (even if it's not javelins) and maybe a rework for the existing ones. For example: instead of having a skill line for dual wield, for two handed and for weapon and shield, having one for sword, one for axes, etc. But it would be nearly impossible to happen.

Anyway, OP, your ideas were really good and creative. We should support this kind of behaviour and maybe try to gather a lot (and i mean A LOT) of players to make this suggestion to ZoS. Even if they wouldn't listen, it will be worth the shot.

Raltin

@idk wrote: »

The least likely weapon lines are the ones that require a new weapon design as it would require a new graphic design per motif in the game. Also, I would suggest a magicka weapon line is more likely than a stamina one since there are already three stam DPS weapon lines and only one magicka one. The original justification for the lack of stam morphs iof class skills s no longer applicable.

I'd argue against that honestly. Sure, we have a 4 stamina weapon lines compared to 2 magicka, BUT when you take into account class abilities... The average number of stamina abilities per class skill tree is just 1. Some classes have skill trees where a stamina user can make use of 2, and the really lucky classes for stamina builds might get 3 abilities in one tree they can make use of even if it's a magicka ability, like ritual of retribution for stamplars... BUT that's the exception more than the rule. Some classes have skill trees that stamina builds can't make use of at all or are just flat out recommended to be trashed for a stamina build, like stam-warden's Winter's Embrace line. Compare that to magicka builds, who can use every single ability within their class skill trees.

Do we probably need a new magicka weapon more than javelins? Probably. Do I agree we need a new magicka weapon line? Yes. But is it probable compared to javelins when conceiving an idea for a new magicka-based weapon aside from another staff, and to not make it look goofy, is far more difficult than the plethora of physical weapons we have from irl to draw inspiration from? Sadly, no. If I ever do think of a new magicka weapon line that could be added in with a new weapon? And I can figure out how to make it work to where it would sound like something ZoS might pick up on? I'll make a thread for it.

idk

Raltin wrote: »

@idk wrote: »

The least likely weapon lines are the ones that require a new weapon design as it would require a new graphic design per motif in the game. Also, I would suggest a magicka weapon line is more likely than a stamina one since there are already three stam DPS weapon lines and only one magicka one. The original justification for the lack of stam morphs iof class skills s no longer applicable.

I'd argue against that honestly. Sure, we have a 4 stamina weapon lines compared to 2 magicka, BUT when you take into account class abilities... The average number of stamina abilities per class skill tree is just 1. Some classes have skill trees where a stamina user can make use of 2, and the really lucky classes for stamina builds might get 3 abilities in one tree they can make use of even if it's a magicka ability, like ritual of retribution for stamplars... BUT that's the exception more than the rule. Some classes have skill trees that stamina builds can't make use of at all or are just flat out recommended to be trashed for a stamina build, like stam-warden's Winter's Embrace line. Compare that to magicka builds, who can use every single ability within their class skill trees.

Do we probably need a new magicka weapon more than javelins? Probably. Do I agree we need a new magicka weapon line? Yes. But is it probable compared to javelins when conceiving an idea for a new magicka-based weapon aside from another staff, and to not make it look goofy, is far more difficult than the plethora of physical weapons we have from irl to draw inspiration from? Sadly, no. If I ever do think of a new magicka weapon line that could be added in with a new weapon? And I can figure out how to make it work to where it would sound like something ZoS might pick up on? I'll make a thread for it.

It is really 3 to one for stam and mag weaopns when looking at DPS. Ofc, someone can consider S&B a damage weaopn since it does do damage and that brings the ratio to 4 to 1. The rStaff is not a damage weapon line and can no longer boosts damage.

Regardless, most class abilities with a damaging focus have a stam morph. I cannot think of a class skill with a focus on damage that does not have a stam morph now that we have crystal weapon. I am sure there might be one that remains, but the argument is not very solid anymore. Skills that are not damage focused and lack a stam morph are not very relevant to this argument. A great example is Sorc's Rune Prison. Its focus is as a CC. Any build using it to do damage is really messed up.

I am not arguing for or against a javelin line, just pointing out why it is not likely, especially anytime soon.

Athan1

Well written post, I do think that the devs take player feedback into account. For example there were several players asking for Necromancers in forums and other media, and then it eventually happened.

Spears/javelins are a very staple weapon in MMORPGs and it's crazy that this game doesn't have it. It also forces EVERY stam build to use a bow if they want range. A second ranged physical weapon would be great.

Most assets for this skill line are there (animations, etc). The OP addresses some concerns too. I would very much prefer this skill line over a new class (pls no more classes).

TwinLamps

Best thread in this month.
Would love to see javelins implemented as usable weapon in ESO.

Raltin

TwinLamps wrote: »

Best thread in this month.
Would love to see javelins implemented as usable weapon in ESO.

Thanks

Raltin

Athan1 wrote: »

Well written post, I do think that the devs take player feedback into account. For example there were several players asking for Necromancers in forums and other media, and then it eventually happened.

Spears/javelins are a very staple weapon in MMORPGs and it's crazy that this game doesn't have it. It also forces EVERY stam build to use a bow if they want range. A second ranged physical weapon would be great.

Most assets for this skill line are there (animations, etc). The OP addresses some concerns too. I would very much prefer this skill line over a new class (pls no more classes).

Yee, I'd definitely like something that is available to all classes rather than providing us a new class.

Tommy_The_Gun

I would like to see like ANY type of polearms weapon type in ESO. Whatever it is javelins or spears or combat staff... it needs to happen.

Funny thing is long time ago I had very similar idea of a weapon skill line, but with a different approach - to make spears / combat staff "hybrid" weapon skill line, that would also fill the "gap" that we have no melee magicka based weapon skill line.

Some details:

1. Two type of weapons, Spear and Combat Staff.
2. Both weapons will be 2 handed, crafted at Woodworking station.
3. All two weapons will be melee weapon.
4. Skill line will be hybrid, with some skills costing stamina and some costing magicka.
5. Spear will be better suited for stamina builds.
6. Combat Staff will be better suited for magicka builds (mystic monk - style weapon).
7. It will be possible to use Spear on magicka & Combat Staff on stamina builds but it will be less effective.
8. Passives will provide bonus to Weapon Critical Chance % and Physical Penetration, when using Spear, and Spell Critical Chance % and Spell Penetration when using Combat Staff.
9. All skills will have magicka & stamina morphs.

Visual: New models for various motif styles can be done in a following pattern:

Spear can use staff "shaft" with "dagger" model at the end.
Combat Staff can use staff "shaft" but could have staff decorative end on both sides of the staff, or it can use "hammer" / "mace" visual model at both ends of the staff.

Skills: Well I only have a short concept of how the skill could be designed (base morph scaling, each skill can chose stamina or magicka morph):

Skill 1 - (Stamina) Single target skill, can be used as a spamable.
Skill 2 - (Stamina) Single target skill with execute.
Skill 3 - (Magicka) AOE, melee attack.
Skill 4 - (Stamina) Charged, gap closer melee attack with cast time.
Skill 5 - (Magicka) Buff, utility skill, heal.

Ultimate: Now here is where its gets interesting. I was trying to think, what could be a unique ultimate for this weapon skill line... And then I asked myself... what if you could actually be able to throw your spear ?

So it could work like this:
When you press Ultimate button, you have to pick a AOE target (yes it will be ranged ability), similar to Caltrops or Volley. When you use it, your character will actually throw your Polearm weapon at that spot (but don't worry, you will still have it in your inventory equipped and you wont lose any weapon & spell dmg bonus that equipped weapon provides).
Targets in the AOE circle will receive initial hit AOE dmg and as long as they are in the circle the will receive dmg over time.

Now here is the best part:
In order to be able to use any Polearm skill or light / heavy attack, after you throw your weapon, you will actually have to get your spear back (walk near it) or wait for the Ultimate to expire. Alternatively you will be able to bar swap and simply wait till ultimate will expire and the weapon will comeback to you.
I was also thinking of making use of Synergy button to pick up Spear (this could potentially make another AOE dmg circle, the moment you pick it up).

Stahlor

hybrid weapon skill line could be whips - magicka whip and stamina whip.

Raltin

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

I would like to see like ANY type of polearms weapon type in ESO. Whatever it is javelins or spears or combat staff... it needs to happen.

Funny thing is long time ago I had very similar idea of a weapon skill line, but with a different approach - to make spears / combat staff "hybrid" weapon skill line, that would also fill the "gap" that we have no melee magicka based weapon skill line.

Some details:

1. Two type of weapons, Spear and Combat Staff.
2. Both weapons will be 2 handed, crafted at Woodworking station.
3. All two weapons will be melee weapon.
4. Skill line will be hybrid, with some skills costing stamina and some costing magicka.
5. Spear will be better suited for stamina builds.
6. Combat Staff will be better suited for magicka builds (mystic monk - style weapon).
7. It will be possible to use Spear on magicka & Combat Staff on stamina builds but it will be less effective.
8. Passives will provide bonus to Weapon Critical Chance % and Physical Penetration, when using Spear, and Spell Critical Chance % and Spell Penetration when using Combat Staff.
9. All skills will have magicka & stamina morphs.

Visual: New models for various motif styles can be done in a following pattern:

Spear can use staff "shaft" with "dagger" model at the end.
Combat Staff can use staff "shaft" but could have staff decorative end on both sides of the staff, or it can use "hammer" / "mace" visual model at both ends of the staff.

Skills: Well I only have a short concept of how the skill could be designed (base morph scaling, each skill can chose stamina or magicka morph):

Skill 1 - (Stamina) Single target skill, can be used as a spamable.
Skill 2 - (Stamina) Single target skill with execute.
Skill 3 - (Magicka) AOE, melee attack.
Skill 4 - (Stamina) Charged, gap closer melee attack with cast time.
Skill 5 - (Magicka) Buff, utility skill, heal.

Ultimate: Now here is where its gets interesting. I was trying to think, what could be a unique ultimate for this weapon skill line... And then I asked myself... what if you could actually be able to throw your spear ?

So it could work like this:
When you press Ultimate button, you have to pick a AOE target (yes it will be ranged ability), similar to Caltrops or Volley. When you use it, your character will actually throw your Polearm weapon at that spot (but don't worry, you will still have it in your inventory equipped and you wont lose any weapon & spell dmg bonus that equipped weapon provides).
Targets in the AOE circle will receive initial hit AOE dmg and as long as they are in the circle the will receive dmg over time.

Now here is the best part:
In order to be able to use any Polearm skill or light / heavy attack, after you throw your weapon, you will actually have to get your spear back (walk near it) or wait for the Ultimate to expire. Alternatively you will be able to bar swap and simply wait till ultimate will expire and the weapon will comeback to you.
I was also thinking of making use of Synergy button to pick up Spear (this could potentially make another AOE dmg circle, the moment you pick it up).

An interesting concept and an enjoyable read to be sure, though I can definitely see some snags here and there within some of the design work that I know wouldn't mesh well with the game and how ZOS tends to design abilities and the funtionality of weapons. Particularly the part where you are left without your weapon's light/heavy attacks during the ultimate and the requirement to either go and pick it up or wait until the ultimate has fizzled out. Not saying your ideas are terrible, far from it, I like them, though my instincts are telling me they're ideas ZOS wouldn't go for themselves without heavily modifying your original concept. With the javelin project, I'm aiming to get as close to dev-approved content as possible, though I'm certain there's something in my post that they'd not want to implement either. As for dual-resource weapons? Hrm... Not sure about that one chief. It'd have to be designed to where it feeds off your highest resource and is affected by your highest damage resource... lots of room for janky mechanics in that, like that one set that does something similar... Am I thinking of Kvatch Gladiator?

SammyKhajit

Love this idea of a new skill line with javelins. Thanks OP for the well-written post.

Would also like to see more hookshot but more than for moving from place to place, but as a weapon like Ocarina of Time (cue nostalgia about Link).

Raideen

I want a blunderbuss and dual wielding revolvers, pirate style!

renne

Give you a javelin skill line (there definitely needs to be more ranged stam options), give me a punching skill line. I want to PUNCH.

LalMirchi

As ubiquitous as S&B is for stam I would like to see a staff and shield ability for mag with the same capabilities as S&B.

Raltin

LalMirchi wrote: »

As ubiquitous as S&B is for stam I would like to see a staff and shield ability for mag with the same capabilities as S&B.

That would be interesting to see and try to figure out the mechanics of.

-Side note: been very busy of late, will soon get back to hammering out the other abilities, all! Would also appreciate feedback and ideas from you regarding such! (Palisade ability has received a lot of positive feedback on discord, ty everyone!)

Grianasteri

In principle I have no issues with a Javlin/spear skill line. It could be great & I would welcome it.

But that unequivocally should not be the next major update, since stamina already has sword, shield, dagger, axe, mace, bow - spread across 4 stamina weapon skill lines, 2H, Duel wield, Sword & Shield, Bow.

Magica has... Staffs. With ONE offensive skill line - Destruction staffs.

It is blindingly obvious that it is magica that requires a new WEAPON skill line. There are numerous ideas floating around the forums, my own ones included. Basically a DUEL wield magica weapon skill line, with the weapon choices being, tome (magic books), rune, open hand, open hand, and finally imbued 1H stamina weapon (with appropriate mechanics to facilitate a melee weapon being able to be used by a magica character).

This covers many bases, people who want true battle mages with swords and spell casting, people who want monk like feel (open hand, rune etc), and people who of course recognise having only staffs for magica is unbelievable unimaginative and boring.

Raltin

@Grianasteri wrote: »

In principle I have no issues with a Javlin/spear skill line. It could be great & I would welcome it.

But that unequivocally should not be the next major update, since stamina already has sword, shield, dagger, axe, mace, bow - spread across 4 stamina weapon skill lines, 2H, Duel wield, Sword & Shield, Bow.

Magica has... Staffs. With ONE offensive skill line - Destruction staffs.

It is blindingly obvious that it is magica that requires a new WEAPON skill line. There are numerous ideas floating around the forums, my own ones included. Basically a DUEL wield magica weapon skill line, with the weapon choices being, tome (magic books), rune, open hand, open hand, and finally imbued 1H stamina weapon (with appropriate mechanics to facilitate a melee weapon being able to be used by a magica character).

This covers many bases, people who want true battle mages with swords and spell casting, people who want monk like feel (open hand, rune etc), and people who of course recognise having only staffs for magica is unbelievable unimaginative and boring.

Well there's a problem. This is a forum post about the javelin, NOT a magicka weapon line. I have said multiple times I agree magicka could use a new weapon line, but this forum is for the discussion of javelins, how they could be implemented, and how they work. I don't want any more side-tracking from people who are salty about magicka being limited to staves posting on this thread. When ideas strike me, I'll make a page about a magicka weapon line, or find one that that someone else has already made that I agree with and support, and when that time comes so help me I better not hear griping from people who want another stamina weapon.

In terms of warfare though, I agree with the devs initial choice of staves. When you get down to it, there's a few reasons why actual weapon types in TES series for magicka have been limited to staves, and here they are: a staff can be used to catch an opponent's weapon. A staff can be used to block. A staff can smack the crap out of your opponent in melee range. A scroll, a pair of hands (unless you're one hell of a hand-to-hand fighter), a flimsy little twig of a wand, or a book, unless it's one HELL of a heavy book, ain't gonna stop your skull being cleaved in by a giant darn battleaxe. And before you say 'wards', well a ward is just like armor, just a magickal shield... now tell me, what happens... when a person wearing a helmet... gets smacked really mother fricken hard in the head? He might survive without getting his head cleaved in two... but that strike can still be lethal due to the blunt force alone. It's always better to block hit or stay out of range than to take the hit. Now class... what's better for blocking a hit, catching your opponent's weapon, or hitting your opponent with when they get into range? Your hands, a scroll, a wand, a book... or a nice long pole of wood with some metal on the end of it? I rest my case...

Now though, if they decided to take some of the melee weapons we already use, like a sword, and make a 'spellsword' version? I think that'd work, and work fantastically. Probably make them a 2h weapon like staves, with you wielding the 'spellsword' in one hand and having the other raised to cast spells with. Plus, they wouldn't have to spend any time going back to create any new pages in already existing motifs. That'd work like bread and butter.

Now, if you don't mind, lets get this thread back on topic about the javelins, please and thank you.

Grianasteri

Raltin wrote: »

@Grianasteri wrote: »

In principle I have no issues with a Javlin/spear skill line. It could be great & I would welcome it.

But that unequivocally should not be the next major update, since stamina already has sword, shield, dagger, axe, mace, bow - spread across 4 stamina weapon skill lines, 2H, Duel wield, Sword & Shield, Bow.

Magica has... Staffs. With ONE offensive skill line - Destruction staffs.

It is blindingly obvious that it is magica that requires a new WEAPON skill line. There are numerous ideas floating around the forums, my own ones included. Basically a DUEL wield magica weapon skill line, with the weapon choices being, tome (magic books), rune, open hand, open hand, and finally imbued 1H stamina weapon (with appropriate mechanics to facilitate a melee weapon being able to be used by a magica character).

This covers many bases, people who want true battle mages with swords and spell casting, people who want monk like feel (open hand, rune etc), and people who of course recognise having only staffs for magica is unbelievable unimaginative and boring.

Well there's a problem. This is a forum post about the javelin, NOT a magicka weapon line. I have said multiple times I agree magicka could use a new weapon line, but this forum is for the discussion of javelins, how they could be implemented, and how they work. I don't want any more side-tracking from people who are salty about magicka being limited to staves posting on this thread. When ideas strike me, I'll make a page about a magicka weapon line, or find one that that someone else has already made that I agree with and support, and when that time comes so help me I better not hear griping from people who want another stamina weapon.

In terms of warfare though, I agree with the devs initial choice of staves. When you get down to it, there's a few reasons why actual weapon types in TES series for magicka have been limited to staves, and here they are: a staff can be used to catch an opponent's weapon. A staff can be used to block. A staff can smack the crap out of your opponent in melee range. A scroll, a pair of hands (unless you're one hell of a hand-to-hand fighter), a flimsy little twig of a wand, or a book, unless it's one HELL of a heavy book, ain't gonna stop your skull being cleaved in by a giant darn battleaxe. And before you say 'wards', well a ward is just like armor, just a magickal shield... now tell me, what happens... when a person wearing a helmet... gets smacked really mother fricken hard in the head? He might survive without getting his head cleaved in two... but that strike can still be lethal due to the blunt force alone. It's always better to block hit or stay out of range than to take the hit. Now class... what's better for blocking a hit, catching your opponent's weapon, or hitting your opponent with when they get into range? Your hands, a scroll, a wand, a book... or a nice long pole of wood with some metal on the end of it? I rest my case...

Now though, if they decided to take some of the melee weapons we already use, like a sword, and make a 'spellsword' version? I think that'd work, and work fantastically. Probably make them a 2h weapon like staves, with you wielding the 'spellsword' in one hand and having the other raised to cast spells with. Plus, they wouldn't have to spend any time going back to create any new pages in already existing motifs. That'd work like bread and butter.

Now, if you don't mind, lets get this thread back on topic about the javelins, please and thank you.

There is no problem. I said this "In principle I have no issues with a Javlin/spear skill line. It could be great & I would welcome it."

I then went on to discuss why in my opinion Javlins/spears should not be the next skill line and why a magica based weapon skill line should be - very briefly, because I have discussed a magica weapon skill line in detail in several other threads.

That is how threads often work, you cannot demand the topic within the OP is the only thing discussed, especially when in context there are multiple variables and other considerations - what I have posted may not be focused on Javlin/spear, but it is certainly related in the context of a discussion about new weapons/skill lines.

I do not disagree with the choice of staffs initially, I like them, they are awesome. I disagree with staffs being the ONLY magica based WEAPON, in the face of stamina having 4 weapon skill lines, with multiple weapon options.

As a side, I think your melee focused comments regarding alternative magica based weapons are flawed, because I do not accept the premise of considering them as melee weapons, that isnt the point for me. The intent is not to use a book, rune, hand, wand etc, to physically fight with. These "weapons" wield magic to fight, that's what mages do... Which brings us to one of the other popular ideas for a "spellsword" or "battlemage" concept, which allows the use essentially of magica melee weapons, and in principle I agree this should be an option within the duel wield magica skill line I envision. Quite how that would work I dont know for sure, but my musings are that they should deal physical damage that scales with max magica, there are any number of ways it could be incorporated into a duel wield magica skill line though.

ps, great OP, I should have said that in my initial post. Again, I would like spears/javlins to be a skill line. But stamina does not need one right now.
.

Maxdevil

I love this idea, javelin could have magicka/stam morph to be a hybrid weapon

Prof_Bawbag

Folk asked for it time after time for Skyrim. What we got was less than a half hearted attempt in Dragonborn. Don't see it happening. Would prefer they didn't if it was as lacklustre.

Raltin

Grianasteri wrote: »

Raltin wrote: »

@Grianasteri wrote: »

In principle I have no issues with a Javlin/spear skill line. It could be great & I would welcome it.

But that unequivocally should not be the next major update, since stamina already has sword, shield, dagger, axe, mace, bow - spread across 4 stamina weapon skill lines, 2H, Duel wield, Sword & Shield, Bow.

Magica has... Staffs. With ONE offensive skill line - Destruction staffs.

It is blindingly obvious that it is magica that requires a new WEAPON skill line. There are numerous ideas floating around the forums, my own ones included. Basically a DUEL wield magica weapon skill line, with the weapon choices being, tome (magic books), rune, open hand, open hand, and finally imbued 1H stamina weapon (with appropriate mechanics to facilitate a melee weapon being able to be used by a magica character).

This covers many bases, people who want true battle mages with swords and spell casting, people who want monk like feel (open hand, rune etc), and people who of course recognise having only staffs for magica is unbelievable unimaginative and boring.

Well there's a problem. This is a forum post about the javelin, NOT a magicka weapon line. I have said multiple times I agree magicka could use a new weapon line, but this forum is for the discussion of javelins, how they could be implemented, and how they work. I don't want any more side-tracking from people who are salty about magicka being limited to staves posting on this thread. When ideas strike me, I'll make a page about a magicka weapon line, or find one that that someone else has already made that I agree with and support, and when that time comes so help me I better not hear griping from people who want another stamina weapon.

In terms of warfare though, I agree with the devs initial choice of staves. When you get down to it, there's a few reasons why actual weapon types in TES series for magicka have been limited to staves, and here they are: a staff can be used to catch an opponent's weapon. A staff can be used to block. A staff can smack the crap out of your opponent in melee range. A scroll, a pair of hands (unless you're one hell of a hand-to-hand fighter), a flimsy little twig of a wand, or a book, unless it's one HELL of a heavy book, ain't gonna stop your skull being cleaved in by a giant darn battleaxe. And before you say 'wards', well a ward is just like armor, just a magickal shield... now tell me, what happens... when a person wearing a helmet... gets smacked really mother fricken hard in the head? He might survive without getting his head cleaved in two... but that strike can still be lethal due to the blunt force alone. It's always better to block hit or stay out of range than to take the hit. Now class... what's better for blocking a hit, catching your opponent's weapon, or hitting your opponent with when they get into range? Your hands, a scroll, a wand, a book... or a nice long pole of wood with some metal on the end of it? I rest my case...

Now though, if they decided to take some of the melee weapons we already use, like a sword, and make a 'spellsword' version? I think that'd work, and work fantastically. Probably make them a 2h weapon like staves, with you wielding the 'spellsword' in one hand and having the other raised to cast spells with. Plus, they wouldn't have to spend any time going back to create any new pages in already existing motifs. That'd work like bread and butter.

Now, if you don't mind, lets get this thread back on topic about the javelins, please and thank you.

There is no problem. I said this "In principle I have no issues with a Javlin/spear skill line. It could be great & I would welcome it."

I then went on to discuss why in my opinion Javlins/spears should not be the next skill line and why a magica based weapon skill line should be - very briefly, because I have discussed a magica weapon skill line in detail in several other threads.

That is how threads often work, you cannot demand the topic within the OP is the only thing discussed, especially when in context there are multiple variables and other considerations - what I have posted may not be focused on Javlin/spear, but it is certainly related in the context of a discussion about new weapons/skill lines.

I do not disagree with the choice of staffs initially, I like them, they are awesome. I disagree with staffs being the ONLY magica based WEAPON, in the face of stamina having 4 weapon skill lines, with multiple weapon options.

As a side, I think your melee focused comments regarding alternative magica based weapons are flawed, because I do not accept the premise of considering them as melee weapons, that isnt the point for me. The intent is not to use a book, rune, hand, wand etc, to physically fight with. These "weapons" wield magic to fight, that's what mages do... Which brings us to one of the other popular ideas for a "spellsword" or "battlemage" concept, which allows the use essentially of magica melee weapons, and in principle I agree this should be an option within the duel wield magica skill line I envision. Quite how that would work I dont know for sure, but my musings are that they should deal physical damage that scales with max magica, there are any number of ways it could be incorporated into a duel wield magica skill line though.

ps, great OP, I should have said that in my initial post. Again, I would like spears/javlins to be a skill line. But stamina does not need one right now.
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True, though when you have a thread dedicated to the discussion of a new stamina weapon, and so many people try to sway it over to talking about a new magicka weapon line, you can understand how that can wear a bit on the intended direction of the OP's hopes for the discussion. As of yet since developing the Palisade ability, I've not yet received any inspiration to work on the other abilities, let alone the passives (though I do have some ideas i'd like to bounce around).

On the topic of the magicka weapons though... I really do think that a sort of dual-wield, spell version of the standard 1-hand and dual weapons would be the way to go. Spell-swords and mage-axes and so on... Weapon in one hand, spells in the other. There's so much potential that could be done with that sort of mechanic...

Like what weapon you choose influencing the element you wield in your spell hand, like with staves... sword for lightning, axe for fire, and mace for ice. Dagger, if there's a dagger version, could probably be just pure magic damage, no elemental influence.

Yep... I'm liking this idea... I might turn this concept into another weapons skill page...

On the subject of warfare and magic weapons though? Eh... it's 10pm and I'm getting tired... I could name a hundred different good reasons why you don't want to bring a book or a scroll into battle over a staff or a 'spell-sword', with both real-life examples and ES lore reasons provided... but I don't wanna rn... though trust me when I say: going into a fight with JUST your magicka and naught but a book and a couple scrolls for backup, practically bare-handed, is NOT a good idea.

Thanks though for the compliments, and, i gotta say, i think you gave me one heck of an idea on how the magic/melee weapons lines and variety could finally be fully balanced out...