Congratulations to DC for winning this camp

Soul_Demon · May 2020

https://imgur.com/a/ftHwCCS
Just wanted to congratulate DC for winning this campaign. I am aware none of you are playing and are not likely to read this but congratulations are in order for the game-play it took to win such a close campaign. I imagine EP and AD who are playing will have to re-examine the strategies used to win as yours of not being here seems to be the most powerful way to 'play' the game. You have pushed into second and held it using this particular strat and it has been amazingly successful and as of this moment its clear no one can beat players who.....are not here. Well done! Guess we wont see you next camp to try and .....um, play you again to beat this approach.

JobooAGS · May 2020

Looks like a population imbalance.

Joinovikova · May 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

https://imgur.com/a/ftHwCCS
Just wanted to congratulate DC for winning this campaign. I am aware none of you are playing and are not likely to read this but congratulations are in order for the game-play it took to win such a close campaign. I imagine EP and AD who are playing will have to re-examine the strategies used to win as yours of not being here seems to be the most powerful way to 'play' the game. You have pushed into second and held it using this particular strat and it has been amazingly successful and as of this moment its clear no one can beat players who.....are not here. Well done! Guess we wont see you next camp to try and .....um, play you again to beat this approach.

Where is Cyro such balaned ? .. in PC Eu campaing ussualy end with 10-20K point difference...

Heimpai · May 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

https://imgur.com/a/ftHwCCS
Just wanted to congratulate DC for winning this campaign. I am aware none of you are playing and are not likely to read this but congratulations are in order for the game-play it took to win such a close campaign. I imagine EP and AD who are playing will have to re-examine the strategies used to win as yours of not being here seems to be the most powerful way to 'play' the game. You have pushed into second and held it using this particular strat and it has been amazingly successful and as of this moment its clear no one can beat players who.....are not here. Well done! Guess we wont see you next camp to try and .....um, play you again to beat this approach.

Where is Cyro such balaned ? .. in PC Eu campaing ussualy end with 10-20K point difference...

It's between AD/EP.. DC is being carried by zos, they win the other camps by 20k+ then go to Grey host when they have low pop to get 300-400 evals

JobooAGS · May 2020

Heimpai wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

https://imgur.com/a/ftHwCCS
Just wanted to congratulate DC for winning this campaign. I am aware none of you are playing and are not likely to read this but congratulations are in order for the game-play it took to win such a close campaign. I imagine EP and AD who are playing will have to re-examine the strategies used to win as yours of not being here seems to be the most powerful way to 'play' the game. You have pushed into second and held it using this particular strat and it has been amazingly successful and as of this moment its clear no one can beat players who.....are not here. Well done! Guess we wont see you next camp to try and .....um, play you again to beat this approach.

Where is Cyro such balaned ? .. in PC Eu campaing ussualy end with 10-20K point difference...

It's between AD/EP.. DC is being carried by zos, they win the other camps by 20k+ then go to Grey host when they have low pop to get 300-400 evals

It almost seems like there is no point to playing Gray Host when you cannot cast skills/keep up your buffs to save your life due to the crippling lag it has during prime time.

Heimpai · May 2020

JobooAGS wrote: »

Heimpai wrote: »

Joinovikova wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

https://imgur.com/a/ftHwCCS
Just wanted to congratulate DC for winning this campaign. I am aware none of you are playing and are not likely to read this but congratulations are in order for the game-play it took to win such a close campaign. I imagine EP and AD who are playing will have to re-examine the strategies used to win as yours of not being here seems to be the most powerful way to 'play' the game. You have pushed into second and held it using this particular strat and it has been amazingly successful and as of this moment its clear no one can beat players who.....are not here. Well done! Guess we wont see you next camp to try and .....um, play you again to beat this approach.

Where is Cyro such balaned ? .. in PC Eu campaing ussualy end with 10-20K point difference...

It's between AD/EP.. DC is being carried by zos, they win the other camps by 20k+ then go to Grey host when they have low pop to get 300-400 evals

It almost seems like there is no point to playing Gray Host when you cannot cast skills/keep up your buffs to save your life due to the crippling lag it has during prime time.

Yup..Especially when you can win by not playing

technohic · May 2020

So just zerging over low pop not as good as advertised? [Snip]

[Edited for bait]

Kadoin · May 2020

Joinovikova wrote: »

Soul_Demon wrote: »

https://imgur.com/a/ftHwCCS
Just wanted to congratulate DC for winning this campaign. I am aware none of you are playing and are not likely to read this but congratulations are in order for the game-play it took to win such a close campaign. I imagine EP and AD who are playing will have to re-examine the strategies used to win as yours of not being here seems to be the most powerful way to 'play' the game. You have pushed into second and held it using this particular strat and it has been amazingly successful and as of this moment its clear no one can beat players who.....are not here. Well done! Guess we wont see you next camp to try and .....um, play you again to beat this approach.

Where is Cyro such balaned ? .. in PC Eu campaing ussualy end with 10-20K point difference...

PC NA. There are groups across the factions that hate a huge score difference, so they all work independently to keep score balanced and when it's not simply stop logging into their faction until it is.

A score that is too far apart leaves no suspense or room for surprise...Plus with the score close, people are actually using tactics that they never would have now. But it makes collecting columbine and kuta in Cyro more annoying

Soul_Demon · May 2020

Here is the deal...who wants to play against ZOS when they hold all the cards? You are not actually fighting the players, its ZOS stepping in adding points to the score to 'help balance' giving a reward to players for not doing any PvP at all. This doesn't make the population any different, if anything players on populated factions are not changing over to other alliances-they are quitting the game due to frustration. You can not beat a game where the game itself throttles the skills so one for every three you try one goes off and on top of that they are putting points up at an obscene rate for one faction. You can not beat that---its not skill based nor is it about effort or the strategy you use, if anything it means if you want to win you HAVE to take all the resources and gate the one getting the low pop bonus to get rewarded for playing if you want to win the camp. It doesn't balance it is causing the player to behave in toxic way by taking EVERYTHING a low pop faction holds to see any results for efforts they do put in. There should be absolutely no way a faction can win a game by not playing at all....this should be impossible.

VaranisArano · May 2020

I get that the point of the low pop bonus to make sure that one faction doesn't fall hopelessly behind in points so much that players give up, sort of like a well-intentioned score inflation. Its just that sometimes the bonus feels rather off in terms of how it impacts the scores in that it sometimes allows alliances to score more points by not playing than if they were consistently defending (or failing to defend) their keeps.

That's okay when it happens on occasion. It gets demoralizing when its used as a deliberate tactic to inflate the score.

The low pop bonus is probably a necessary evil that keeps Cyrodiil competitive without enforcing dynamic populations that might lock players out. I just always have to raise an eyebrow when it creates a perverse incentive by rewarding playing less with a higher score.

(There's an analogy to be made with making more money on unemployment than from working, but I'm not sure I want to go there.)

technohic · May 2020

It's supposed to incentivize not stacking 1 or 2 factions. I can guarantee you that there is not a significant amount of DC saying "Hey; lets just not play to get more points." DC as a collective is not that smart or if they are; they are not willing to cooperate with each other.

What you are seeing is that even before when DC was pop locked, there was hardly a queue while other factions had long ones. It was a soft lock and there has been a huge difference in that and actual locked population. 2 things then happened. The performance took a nosedive at update 25 causing population across the board to plummet, and DC had less overflow so it is more obvious. And after a few months of faction lock; players that like to jump to the winning side realized they were not getting there with DC and rolled other factions.

One thing that has stayed consistent though; is the whining about DC. 2 months ago; it was "BooHoo; Fengrush runs over the map with his zerg. Stop Zerging DC!" Fengrush stops coming here and now its "Boohoo; DC is not bringing enough numbers and getting low pop bonus." Tell me that's not whining.

I'd say this is all working as intended.

Ahtu · May 2020

Taking an objective look at each factions' strategies, I can safely say that DC would be FAR behind if not for the low population bonuses they receive nightly. That being said, I'm glad they do because otherwise they would have given up by now. People like to complain about low population bonuses, but I for one am glad that they exist to keep things competitive.

Earthewen · May 2020

Ahtu wrote: »

Taking an objective look at each factions' strategies, I can safely say that DC would be FAR behind if not for the low population bonuses they receive nightly. That being said, I'm glad they do because otherwise they would have given up by now. People like to complain about low population bonuses, but I for one am glad that they exist to keep things competitive.

I'm not sure about competitive being the right word here. How can you compete with someone who isn't there? The whole idea is that people come out and fight. I'm not sure the bonus is helping the situation. I think it is far more likely to prove a point that has been a point of contention for a long time and that is the comments that people who swap factions are only doing it to even out the numbers. That certainly isn't the case. If it were the case, those guilds who left EP to go to the "underdog" AD would have instead gone over to DC, but they did not.

In a full 24-hour period, DC had less than 30% of the entire Gray Host population. AD and EP were closer, but AD was far more populated around the clock than either of the other two factions. I know because I stayed up to watch the populations for a full 24-hour period. I couldn't sleep anyway so it wasn't a bother, but I did find the data very interesting.

What I did find was that the low population bonus kicked in immediately prior to a huge jump in the percentage of the entire server. I think the problem isn't that there IS a bonus but that it is horribly out of balance. Give the lower pop faction some points so they aren't quite so far behind … okay I can get behind that. Give the lower pop faction enough points that they can take second place or first … THAT is the thing I cannot get behind. During the same 24 hour period, DC had a bonus of 318 points. When it ticked off during the evaluation, what do you think happened?

Ahtu · May 2020

It is competitive since DC are actually still trying instead of being thousands of points behind and giving up hope.

Earthewen · May 2020

@Ahtu Please read the rest of the post. I'm not saying dispose of it altogether. What I am saying is that it's way too large. No faction should ever gain over a working faction if they aren't playing. It's like saying the Rams didn't show up but won the superbowl. The low pop bonus is still in play even when they have the same number of bars as the other two factions. This skews the points into super status for DC. That part is not beneficial for the entirety of the population.

By not changing the low pop bonus as it stands now, the other two factions must push DC all the way to their gates in order to maintain their lead. How is pushing the few players left to their gates going to encourage whoever is left to push back?

usmcjdking · May 2020

ITT: People upset they can't bot their way to gold jewelry.

Crispen_Longbow · May 2020

Ahtu wrote: »

Taking an objective look at each factions' strategies, I can safely say that DC would be FAR behind if not for the low population bonuses they receive nightly. That being said, I'm glad they do because otherwise they would have given up by now. People like to complain about low population bonuses, but I for one am glad that they exist to keep things competitive.

Earthewen wrote: »

I'm not sure about competitive being the right word here. How can you compete with someone who isn't there? The whole idea is that people come out and fight.

The bolded part is the whole point of cyro but the exact opposite to win a campaign. Campaigns have always been won by which faction zergs the most in non primetime hours. Commonly referred to as Day Capping and Night Capping. If you want to win the campaign you pvdoor the map when the majority of players are asleep for Night capping or while everyone is at work/school for Day Capping. This is not fighting, this is pvdoor and it's how you win campaigns. The Low pop score is a lazy way to try and fix the above problem.

If you are a "Primetime" player, campaign scores are meaningless. A primetime player has almost no impact on how the campaign turns out. Earthewen as a primetime guild you would be better off worrying about trying to improve Vae Victus so that you guys can compete against other guilds.

Earthewen wrote: »

I'm not sure the bonus is helping the situation. I think it is far more likely to prove a point that has been a point of contention for a long time and that is the comments that people who swap factions are only doing it to even out the numbers. That certainly isn't the case. If it were the case, those guilds who left EP to go to the "underdog" AD would have instead gone over to DC, but they did not.

Guilds moving from one faction to another happen for varies reasons. Non primetime guilds moving from one faction to other changes which faction will win the campaign. Primetime guilds switching from one faction to other are doing it for better guild fights.
DC primetime had their guilds abandon them this campaign. They moved over to No-CP, quit or moved their playtime. LoM is over on No-CP, the 2 pug raids of Homicide have quit or they now play non primetime hours. Rough Riders moved back to No-CP but they played non primetime hours anyway. All that DC has left in primetime is Iron legion, Chapterhouse and Xans. If LoM, Homicide and Rough Riders were still here this campaign, DC would be fine.

Earthewen wrote: »

In a full 24-hour period, DC had less than 30% of the entire Gray Host population. AD and EP were closer, but AD was far more populated around the clock than either of the other two factions. I know because I stayed up to watch the populations for a full 24-hour period. I couldn't sleep anyway so it wasn't a bother, but I did find the data very interesting.

What I did find was that the low population bonus kicked in immediately prior to a huge jump in the percentage of the entire server. I think the problem isn't that there IS a bonus but that it is horribly out of balance. Give the lower pop faction some points so they aren't quite so far behind … okay I can get behind that. Give the lower pop faction enough points that they can take second place or first … THAT is the thing I cannot get behind. During the same 24 hour period, DC had a bonus of 318 points. When it ticked off during the evaluation, what do you think happened?

Earthewen wrote: »

@Ahtu Please read the rest of the post. I'm not saying dispose of it altogether. What I am saying is that it's way too large. No faction should ever gain over a working faction if they aren't playing. It's like saying the Rams didn't show up but won the superbowl.

In what football game would they ever allow a game to be played where it is 11 v 1? Who would watch a superbowl if the only reason they were there was because they were allowed to completely out number their opponents. If you want a competitive campaign break the scoring up into three 8 hour sections and get rid of the low pop bonus. What you would find is the only competitive campaign would be primetime. The other two would be so far out of balance it's a joke.

Earthewen wrote: »

The low pop bonus is still in play even when they have the same number of bars as the other two factions. This skews the points into super status for DC. That part is not beneficial for the entirety of the population.

By not changing the low pop bonus as it stands now, the other two factions must push DC all the way to their gates in order to maintain their lead. How is pushing the few players left to their gates going to encourage whoever is left to push back?

There is no need to push DC to their gates because campaign wins are meaningless. Go have some fun fights in cyro and improve your guild.

Earthewen · May 2020

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Ahtu wrote: »

Taking an objective look at each factions' strategies, I can safely say that DC would be FAR behind if not for the low population bonuses they receive nightly. That being said, I'm glad they do because otherwise they would have given up by now. People like to complain about low population bonuses, but I for one am glad that they exist to keep things competitive.

Earthewen wrote: »

I'm not sure about competitive being the right word here. How can you compete with someone who isn't there? The whole idea is that people come out and fight.

The bolded part is the whole point of cyro but the exact opposite to win a campaign. Campaigns have always been won by which faction zergs the most in non primetime hours. Commonly referred to as Day Capping and Night Capping. If you want to win the campaign you pvdoor the map when the majority of players are asleep for Night capping or while everyone is at work/school for Day Capping. This is not fighting, this is pvdoor and it's how you win campaigns. The Low pop score is a lazy way to try and fix the above problem.

If you are a "Primetime" player, campaign scores are meaningless. A primetime player has almost no impact on how the campaign turns out. Earthewen as a primetime guild you would be better off worrying about trying to improve Vae Victus so that you guys can compete against other guilds.

Earthewen wrote: »

I'm not sure the bonus is helping the situation. I think it is far more likely to prove a point that has been a point of contention for a long time and that is the comments that people who swap factions are only doing it to even out the numbers. That certainly isn't the case. If it were the case, those guilds who left EP to go to the "underdog" AD would have instead gone over to DC, but they did not.

Guilds moving from one faction to another happen for varies reasons. Non primetime guilds moving from one faction to other changes which faction will win the campaign. Primetime guilds switching from one faction to other are doing it for better guild fights.
DC primetime had their guilds abandon them this campaign. They moved over to No-CP, quit or moved their playtime. LoM is over on No-CP, the 2 pug raids of Homicide have quit or they now play non primetime hours. Rough Riders moved back to No-CP but they played non primetime hours anyway. All that DC has left in primetime is Iron legion, Chapterhouse and Xans. If LoM, Homicide and Rough Riders were still here this campaign, DC would be fine.

Earthewen wrote: »

In a full 24-hour period, DC had less than 30% of the entire Gray Host population. AD and EP were closer, but AD was far more populated around the clock than either of the other two factions. I know because I stayed up to watch the populations for a full 24-hour period. I couldn't sleep anyway so it wasn't a bother, but I did find the data very interesting.

What I did find was that the low population bonus kicked in immediately prior to a huge jump in the percentage of the entire server. I think the problem isn't that there IS a bonus but that it is horribly out of balance. Give the lower pop faction some points so they aren't quite so far behind … okay I can get behind that. Give the lower pop faction enough points that they can take second place or first … THAT is the thing I cannot get behind. During the same 24 hour period, DC had a bonus of 318 points. When it ticked off during the evaluation, what do you think happened?

Earthewen wrote: »

@Ahtu Please read the rest of the post. I'm not saying dispose of it altogether. What I am saying is that it's way too large. No faction should ever gain over a working faction if they aren't playing. It's like saying the Rams didn't show up but won the superbowl.

In what football game would they ever allow a game to be played where it is 11 v 1? Who would watch a superbowl if the only reason they were there was because they were allowed to completely out number their opponents. If you want a competitive campaign break the scoring up into three 8 hour sections and get rid of the low pop bonus. What you would find is the only competitive campaign would be primetime. The other two would be so far out of balance it's a joke.

Earthewen wrote: »

The low pop bonus is still in play even when they have the same number of bars as the other two factions. This skews the points into super status for DC. That part is not beneficial for the entirety of the population.

By not changing the low pop bonus as it stands now, the other two factions must push DC all the way to their gates in order to maintain their lead. How is pushing the few players left to their gates going to encourage whoever is left to push back?

There is no need to push DC to their gates because campaign wins are meaningless. Go have some fun fights in cyro and improve your guild.

Let's be very clear. AD zergs throughout the day, not just during primetime. Don't forget that DC will also zerg a map down. For that matter, EP will, too. However, the overall population is definitely AD throughout the day.

Another thing that might be of interest is the 24 hour period I also watched the number of times each faction is engaged through combat (offensive/defense of home and held areas). Not surprisingly, EP was attacked almost twice as much as either of the other two factions. Very curious indeed.

Crown · May 2020

Earthewen wrote: »

Let's be very clear. AD zergs throughout the day, not just during primetime. The overall population is definitely AD. Telling people that wins are meaningless is only your opinion. Let's not confuse opinion with fact. ;-)

I've just started running an addon that collects population over time, and exports it to make pretty graphs. In the few days it's been running, it looks like, as @Crispen_Longbow stated there are a few major time periods. Based on eastern (GMT-4) time, and based on only a few days (we'll see what this looks like in a couple weeks once we have more data):

6pm to 1am is prime time. All factions are usually locked, with DC sometimes at 3 bar.
1am-3am is variable between the above and below.
3am-9am AD are 3 bar, DC are 1 bar, and EP are 1 or 2 bar. I believe this is due to the Oceanic players who don't have their own server, so for them this is day/prime time.
9am-11am tends towards lower population all around.
11am to 4pm EP are locked, with AD and DC at one bar. Sometimes AD is 2 bar.
4pm to 6pm Tends towards 3 bar all around.

I'm trying to figure out how to automatically take and crop map screen shots, and if I can manage to do so, I'll put up a web site that shows current (past 5 mins) population and map state. I am NOT a very good dev, so this may take some time..

Earthewen · May 2020

Crown wrote: »

I've just started running an addon that collects population over time, and exports it to make pretty graphs. In the few days it's been running, it looks like, as @Crispen_Longbow stated there are a few major time periods. Based on eastern (GMT-4) time, and based on only a few days (we'll see what this looks like in a couple weeks once we have more data):
6pm to 1am is prime time. All factions are usually locked, with DC sometimes at 3 bar.

1am-3am is variable between the above and below.

3am-9am AD are 3 bar, DC are 1 bar, and EP are 1 or 2 bar. I believe this is due to the Oceanic players who don't have their own server, so for them this is day/prime time.

9am-11am tends towards lower population all around.

11am to 4pm EP are locked, with AD and DC at one bar. Sometimes AD is 2 bar.

4pm to 6pm Tends towards 3 bar all around.

I'm trying to figure out how to automatically take and crop map screen shots, and if I can manage to do so, I'll put up a web site that shows current (past 5 mins) population and map state. I am NOT a very good dev, so this may take some time..

Thanks, Crown. That is pretty much what I saw the old fashioned way. LOL Good to see I was on target with your research.

Crispen_Longbow · May 2020

Earthewen wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

I've just started running an addon that collects population over time, and exports it to make pretty graphs. In the few days it's been running, it looks like, as @Crispen_Longbow stated there are a few major time periods. Based on eastern (GMT-4) time, and based on only a few days (we'll see what this looks like in a couple weeks once we have more data):
6pm to 1am is prime time. All factions are usually locked, with DC sometimes at 3 bar.

1am-3am is variable between the above and below.

3am-9am AD are 3 bar, DC are 1 bar, and EP are 1 or 2 bar. I believe this is due to the Oceanic players who don't have their own server, so for them this is day/prime time.

9am-11am tends towards lower population all around.

11am to 4pm EP are locked, with AD and DC at one bar. Sometimes AD is 2 bar.

4pm to 6pm Tends towards 3 bar all around.

I'm trying to figure out how to automatically take and crop map screen shots, and if I can manage to do so, I'll put up a web site that shows current (past 5 mins) population and map state. I am NOT a very good dev, so this may take some time..

Thanks, Crown. That is pretty much what I saw the old fashioned way. LOL Good to see I was on target with your research.

I propose a new campaign structure. Campaigns are divided up into three eight hour blocks. At the start of each eight hour block the campaign map is reset to neutral. Everyone has their scrolls, no one controls keeps. Everyone battles it out in their time zones. Points count during that 8 hour period then the campaign closes and others open. Campaigns still last for 30 days but are only open for 8 hours a day to have points scored.

GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Open (6:00 PM EST – 2:00 AM EST)
Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Open (6:00 PM EST – 2:00 AM EST)
BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open (2:00 AM EST – 10:00 AM EST)
IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open (10:00 AM EST – 6:00 PM EST.)

Primetime Campaign: 6:00 PM EST – 2:00 AM EST. Currently Competitive with equal pop. Only timezone that can support 2 active campaigns.

GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Open
Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Open
BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed
IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed

Oceanic Campaign: 2:00 AM EST – 10:00 AM EST. Only 1 active campaign. AD dominates this timezone

GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Closed
Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Closed
BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open
IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed

Day Campaign: 10:00 AM EST – 6:00 PM EST. Only 1 active campaign. EP dominates this timezone.

GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Closed
Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Closed
BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed
IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open

This would help reduce lag as clearing out the campaigns, by logging everyone off, seems to help cyro for a few hours. A player would earn leaderboard rankings and rewards in whatever campaign they play. This would make the Primetime campaign actually mean something.

This would help to even out the populations. All but one campaign is dead in the off hours. This would pull all the players in the dead campaigns to one main off hour campaign. Make these campaigns no faction lock to allow guilds to try and balance out the population.

Earthewen · May 2020

Crown wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Let's be very clear. AD zergs throughout the day, not just during primetime. The overall population is definitely AD. Telling people that wins are meaningless is only your opinion. Let's not confuse opinion with fact. ;-)

I've just started running an addon that collects population over time, and exports it to make pretty graphs. In the few days it's been running, it looks like, as @Crispen_Longbow stated there are a few major time periods. Based on eastern (GMT-4) time, and based on only a few days (we'll see what this looks like in a couple weeks once we have more data):
6pm to 1am is prime time. All factions are usually locked, with DC sometimes at 3 bar.

1am-3am is variable between the above and below.

3am-9am AD are 3 bar, DC are 1 bar, and EP are 1 or 2 bar. I believe this is due to the Oceanic players who don't have their own server, so for them this is day/prime time.

9am-11am tends towards lower population all around.

11am to 4pm EP are locked, with AD and DC at one bar. Sometimes AD is 2 bar.

4pm to 6pm Tends towards 3 bar all around.

I'm trying to figure out how to automatically take and crop map screen shots, and if I can manage to do so, I'll put up a web site that shows current (past 5 mins) population and map state. I am NOT a very good dev, so this may take some time..

Crown, how are you counting population? ZOS won't tell us what the bars mean.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 2020

Crown wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Let's be very clear. AD zergs throughout the day, not just during primetime. The overall population is definitely AD. Telling people that wins are meaningless is only your opinion. Let's not confuse opinion with fact. ;-)

I've just started running an addon that collects population over time, and exports it to make pretty graphs. In the few days it's been running, it looks like, as @Crispen_Longbow stated there are a few major time periods. Based on eastern (GMT-4) time, and based on only a few days (we'll see what this looks like in a couple weeks once we have more data):
6pm to 1am is prime time. All factions are usually locked, with DC sometimes at 3 bar.

1am-3am is variable between the above and below.

3am-9am AD are 3 bar, DC are 1 bar, and EP are 1 or 2 bar. I believe this is due to the Oceanic players who don't have their own server, so for them this is day/prime time.

9am-11am tends towards lower population all around.

11am to 4pm EP are locked, with AD and DC at one bar. Sometimes AD is 2 bar.

4pm to 6pm Tends towards 3 bar all around.

I'm trying to figure out how to automatically take and crop map screen shots, and if I can manage to do so, I'll put up a web site that shows current (past 5 mins) population and map state. I am NOT a very good dev, so this may take some time..

You could just stream the map from another account along with a population indicator iirc Bashu was trying to do something similar maybe chat with him

Icarus42 · May 2020

Maybe give the Aussies and Japanese their own server.. They are the traditional night cappers idk.. and I am sure they would appreciate not having to play with perma lag also.. I dont think it would prevent people from night capping but it might help..

Crown · May 2020

@Earthewen I have a semi-functional addon that polls for current number of bars, then writes it to a saved variable file. You have to then take the file and import it to something . At present I manually import it into Elastic, though I'm working on my Discord bot so that it'll auto-import from any file dropped into a particular channel. I'm not a good enough dev to do client-things like TTC or some of the others that grab a file and upload it automatically. Once I'm done and it's confirmed working, I have to get the back-end to deduplicate, and remove entries that are wrong (say if one person manually edits the file to skew numbers like an incident with TTC a couple weeks back). At that point I'll release it public so the more people running it the larger sample size and the less likely of wrong data making it in (by error or maliciously).

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO The challenge with an account doing that is keeping it online. Macros to jump or block every few minutes would be needed, and that violates the ToS. I haven't figured out the best way of doing this.. I thought about having someone make a client to auto edit screen shots that people take, determine if it's a map screen shot and if so crop it, then upload it somewhere that it can be added to a time lapse type video. The more people running that addon/client, the more image points over time available in the time lapse. This would be WAY beyond my capabilities to develop, but I'd be happy to supply a few EC2 instances / the hosting on the back end if someone else could get it working.

gabriebe · May 2020

The low pop is DC's reward for having to deal with the BS of being zerged by about 70 ADs to about 10 DCs most NA mornings. Sorry if it annoys you that it's technically possible for AD or EP to zerg themselves to defeat.

Ahtu · May 2020

4 am the map is entirely yellow score means nothing

Dat · May 2020

Ahtu wrote: »

4 am the map is entirely yellow score means nothing

Weren't you the one constantly updating people of the score deficit not that long ago? Saying there was no way ep could lose this campaign with the lead we had? Weird how you flipped on that

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO · May 2020

.

Crown wrote: »

@Earthewen I have a semi-functional addon that polls for current number of bars, then writes it to a saved variable file. You have to then take the file and import it to something . At present I manually import it into Elastic, though I'm working on my Discord bot so that it'll auto-import from any file dropped into a particular channel. I'm not a good enough dev to do client-things like TTC or some of the others that grab a file and upload it automatically. Once I'm done and it's confirmed working, I have to get the back-end to deduplicate, and remove entries that are wrong (say if one person manually edits the file to skew numbers like an incident with TTC a couple weeks back). At that point I'll release it public so the more people running it the larger sample size and the less likely of wrong data making it in (by error or maliciously).

@Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO The challenge with an account doing that is keeping it online. Macros to jump or block every few minutes would be needed, and that violates the ToS. I haven't figured out the best way of doing this.. I thought about having someone make a client to auto edit screen shots that people take, determine if it's a map screen shot and if so crop it, then upload it somewhere that it can be added to a time lapse type video. The more people running that addon/client, the more image points over time available in the time lapse. This would be WAY beyond my capabilities to develop, but I'd be happy to supply a few EC2 instances / the hosting on the back end if someone else could get it working.

Maybe chat with the old eso stats guys and use their addon as a basis. I get the impression they stopped hosting the site mainly because of Web costs. They might have also quit.

ellahellabella · May 2020

Crispen_Longbow wrote: »

Earthewen wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

I've just started running an addon that collects population over time, and exports it to make pretty graphs. In the few days it's been running, it looks like, as @Crispen_Longbow stated there are a few major time periods. Based on eastern (GMT-4) time, and based on only a few days (we'll see what this looks like in a couple weeks once we have more data):
6pm to 1am is prime time. All factions are usually locked, with DC sometimes at 3 bar.

1am-3am is variable between the above and below.

3am-9am AD are 3 bar, DC are 1 bar, and EP are 1 or 2 bar. I believe this is due to the Oceanic players who don't have their own server, so for them this is day/prime time.

9am-11am tends towards lower population all around.

11am to 4pm EP are locked, with AD and DC at one bar. Sometimes AD is 2 bar.

4pm to 6pm Tends towards 3 bar all around.

I'm trying to figure out how to automatically take and crop map screen shots, and if I can manage to do so, I'll put up a web site that shows current (past 5 mins) population and map state. I am NOT a very good dev, so this may take some time..

Thanks, Crown. That is pretty much what I saw the old fashioned way. LOL Good to see I was on target with your research.

I propose a new campaign structure. Campaigns are divided up into three eight hour blocks. At the start of each eight hour block the campaign map is reset to neutral. Everyone has their scrolls, no one controls keeps. Everyone battles it out in their time zones. Points count during that 8 hour period then the campaign closes and others open. Campaigns still last for 30 days but are only open for 8 hours a day to have points scored.
GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Open (6:00 PM EST – 2:00 AM EST)

Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Open (6:00 PM EST – 2:00 AM EST)

BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open (2:00 AM EST – 10:00 AM EST)

IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open (10:00 AM EST – 6:00 PM EST.)

Primetime Campaign: 6:00 PM EST – 2:00 AM EST. Currently Competitive with equal pop. Only timezone that can support 2 active campaigns.
GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Open

Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Open

BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed

IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed

Oceanic Campaign: 2:00 AM EST – 10:00 AM EST. Only 1 active campaign. AD dominates this timezone
GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Closed

Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Closed

BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open

IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed

Day Campaign: 10:00 AM EST – 6:00 PM EST. Only 1 active campaign. EP dominates this timezone.
GrayHost (Faction Lock, CP) Closed

Ravenwatch (Faction Lock, No CP) Closed

BlackReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Closed

IceReach (No Faction Lock, CP) Open

This would help reduce lag as clearing out the campaigns, by logging everyone off, seems to help cyro for a few hours. A player would earn leaderboard rankings and rewards in whatever campaign they play. This would make the Primetime campaign actually mean something.

This would help to even out the populations. All but one campaign is dead in the off hours. This would pull all the players in the dead campaigns to one main off hour campaign. Make these campaigns no faction lock to allow guilds to try and balance out the population.

No.

You are trying to factor in prime time for time zones but forget that not everyone plays your way and at your time. Even in your own country.

I played with guilds in NA prime early morning when I was available due to my flexible hours. I also had NA peeps play with me during OC and JP hours due to their own weird work rosters. What you're wanting to enforce will force everyone over 2 or 3 servers.

This silly idea got shut down before and I guess I have to shut it down again.

IT. WON'T. WORK.

ellahellabella · May 2020

Soul_Demon wrote: »

https://imgur.com/a/ftHwCCS
Just wanted to congratulate DC for winning this campaign. I am aware none of you are playing and are not likely to read this but congratulations are in order for the game-play it took to win such a close campaign. I imagine EP and AD who are playing will have to re-examine the strategies used to win as yours of not being here seems to be the most powerful way to 'play' the game. You have pushed into second and held it using this particular strat and it has been amazingly successful and as of this moment its clear no one can beat players who.....are not here. Well done! Guess we wont see you next camp to try and .....um, play you again to beat this approach.

You complain about DC doing nothing... but.... every time from before I left; when EP won, it was because a certain Japanese guild leader pug wrangled over zone. We faction stacked like no tomorrow.
I doubt that has changed looking at the score in this picture. Can you so arrogantly preach when your own victory was achieved by a guild that ran while you slept?

The straight boost you mention is not planned, it's simply that DC has no OC presence. The guilds that did run in OC are very small or no longer running. As such, EP and AD run amok with next to no DC online. When Japan logs on, things change.

Suddenly DC has population again (and if Wormhole is on, they kick arse hard). Due to there being next to no DC online before they do, Japan DC get the glory of x2 AP. I'll thank you on their behalf.

That "sudden" population boost is simply Japan logging on. Next time I suggest that ask someone that is online when such things happen instead of raving about it and assume that you somehow know everything.