February 2020 Furnishing Limit Status Update

Kashya_Vulano

Sallymen wrote: »

Can there be a compromise? Maybe after the performance patch raise the cap by 100 to test the waters. If everything seems fine add 100 more?

I like this idea, but ZOS wouldn't be partial to it without a considerable compromise. I'd say raise the caps by 50 items and 2 players per housing type, every quarter or so until they hit a point where they know they're pushing the absolute upper ceiling, if they aren't now already. It isn't hard to see, though, that they aren't pushing it.

Brandathorbel

Well it seems @ZOS_CullenLee is guilty of a Hit and Run a Post and Popoff An Explain and Extinction...

Pinoh

Well feels like spinning my wheels, but here are some suggestions:

*Housing materials are out of control, need to have them drop in surveys. Or barring that, like literally cut the amount required for recipes in half.

*Storage is out of control, more and more items each patch, and basically no were to put them. Way past time for a 5th one of each house chest. Or more bank and pack space.

*Multiple housing links, 1 primary isn't enough. I can't even imagine how bad housing must be on console due to lack of access.

*Adjustable House Lighting. Something simple like 0-10 with 5 being default lightning.

*Curved, Long and Short retaining walls in each region that match the coloring of the housing for that region.

*Some clock work city grates that aren't bent.

*Add some additional regional items to the home furnishing vendors, that match the region. They all say let us help decorate your house, or something similar. But usually all they have to offer are conservatory furnishings. And literally nothing to decorate a house with.

*Finishing out the master writ guys, furnishing envelopes.

*Dwarven style materials need some attunement.

*Increase player limits in housing, if one apartment can have 6 ppl they all should. But in general they all need an increase in population limit.

*And of course last but not least. Furnishing item number increases. Your excuses, are just not logical.

Rykiln

I'd like to see the following changes to housing furnishings:

- More Target Buffed 21 mil Dummies in new styles (like the Iron Atro)
- Functional Wayshrines that can be used for teleporting to other Wayshrines at no cost. Also to be used as a movable entry point for your customized house.
- Vampire and Werewolf Shrines where players can use their weekly bites.
- Respec Shrines (Attribute/Skill)
- Functional Mara Shrine
- Attunable Crafting Stations changed so that you can use any learned sets on 1 station set instead of having to have an entire house dedicated to 700 crafting tables. Perhaps have a mechanic added where you have to purchase and install an attuned rune to the crafting station instead of buying entirely new crafting stations.
- When Teleporting to someone's house, being able to select from a list of houses they own and have granted you permissions to visit, instead of ONLY primary.

And of course, an item increase for traditional furnishings. Even just 100 more for Notables would be great.

Brandathorbel

Kashya_Vulano wrote: »

Sallymen wrote: »

Can there be a compromise? Maybe after the performance patch raise the cap by 100 to test the waters. If everything seems fine add 100 more?

I like this idea, but ZOS wouldn't be partial to it without a considerable compromise. I'd say raise the caps by 50 items and 2 players per housing type, every quarter or so until they hit a point where they know they're pushing the absolute upper ceiling, if they aren't now already. It isn't hard to see, though, that they aren't pushing it.

[snip]
[edited to remove bait]

here is the thing. I can guarantee with certainty they never actually tested the limits and just tossed an arbitrary number out there.
they have proven time and time again they dont even own and xbox or ps4 to test things on. They put out patches on consoles that do major harm that would be noticeable if they spent one hour testing it on the actual console.

we need it properly tested, not some random number tossed out there and a lot of BS on why they can't up it. Do the metrics like any respectable company would do. Housing is major money for Zos, it is time they actually start treating it like it is.

TheStarfighter

Hey,

Thanks for the update on this subject hope to see more on this and other housing update in the future

Kashya_Vulano

xbobx15 wrote: »

here is the thing. I can guarantee with certainty they never actually tested the limits and just tossed an arbitrary number out there.
they have proven time and time again they dont even own and xbox or ps4 to test things on. They put out patches on consoles that do major harm that would be noticeable if they spent one hour testing it on the actual console.

we need it properly tested, not some random number tossed out there and a lot of BS on why they can't up it. Do the metrics like any respectable company would do. Housing is major money for Zos, it is time they actually start treating it like it is.

EDIT: Re-added this ENTIRE paragraph. This is getting so frustrating and I'm just going to start making copies of my posts now.

The consoles are definitely a setback, but at the risk of getting my post snipped for a third time, they need to put additional measures in place to separate them as games, in my opinion. It's not an offending opinion that the performance of consoles are not on par with PCs, and the fact that we're getting the short end of the stick is ridiculous. I completely agree though, they most definitely just tossed a number at it and went "Yep, that'll stick. Now we're just going to keep it there indefinitely."

Brandathorbel

the irony is, they are worried about performance in housing and yet after patch cyrodiil is completely broken and to be honest broken for 4 years but we cant have a couple more plants

MornaBaine

xbobx15 wrote: »

the irony is, they are worried about performance in housing and yet after patch cyrodiil is completely broken and to be honest broken for 4 years but we cant have a couple more plants

Well I mean if they can't fix a major part of the game that has always been in and a large chunk of development was put towards from the very beginning I suppose we should not be surprised they "can't" improve what was essentially an afterthought that they suddenly realized they could make a lot of money off of.

Honestly I feel like the bulk of the problem is twofold.
1. The megaserver. HUGE mistake. This was a new engine to them and a new concept (the megaserver) and they just threw everyone together regardless of preferred playstyle and ended up pleasing no one completely. They just didn't have the know how to make this work properly from the very beginning. And the game has suffered for it ever since.
2. Adding consoles. The OTHER absolutely HUGE mistake. I'm not wanting to start another PC Master Race/Console Peasants war but the fact remains that the platforms are and should be kept MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. If they really wanted to make ESO for consoles, great. But it should have been developed absolutely independently from the PC game and it should have been explicitly stated up front that there WOULD BE variations between the two games. Because absolutely console implementation limits what can be done for PC. And this is just really not acceptable.

Thannazzar

Thanks for the explanation, there is a plethora of feedback and the community would love some feedback from ZOS on:

1. Understanding the cap is 700;
A) why can't the limits on smaller homes be raise up to 700 or just increased.
B ) will ZOS be responding to user feedback and designing more medium homes which can be decorated efectively within the cap.

2. In terms of mitigating the cap;
A) when can we expect to see more consolidated housing items, eg filled bookshelves, set tables, etc to compensate for the low individual item limits.

darthgummibear_ESO

ZOS_CullenLee wrote: »

the upper-most furnishing limits are in place to avoid serious performance issues

This is complete crap and it's frankly insulting that you keep pushing this angle. The fact that I'm able to put most of the 700 limit in ONE ROOM with no issues for myself or any of my visitors throws that excuse right out the window.

MornaBaine

So here we are 5 pages and several days later and not a SINGLE official response to this thread anywhere. Typical. Deeply disappointing. But typical.

Scion_of_Yggdrasil

The things I would like to see to make housing feel complete:

1. Option to place consumables (potions, food, and ingredients) in the home. I would rather place a potion than fake decorative grapes...
2. A Master Switch for lights. Like a special candle that, when activated, gives the option to turn all lights on, off, or to save lights as they are for easy preset activation.
3. Ingredient specific containers that sync with your craft bag. Non eso members can manually place ingredients in their respective containers (apple basket).

Not sure if any of these would be possible though.

MornaBaine

Brandathorbel wrote: »

I am starting to feel like the biggest trolls on this forum is the developers. (sarcasm not bashing)

They put up a comment then disapper from the forums.

What i would love if they would regularly come back and actually have a meaningful and informative conversation but we always get the hit and run.

Days later and this is still true.

Ravensilver

Standing in the new Thieves' Oasis right now.

I like the layout and the idea of it.

BUT...

It's basically *two* huge house spaces, with an even larger outdoor space. And a 700 item cap.

If at least each house were its own instance, with 700 items *each* and the outdoors a third instance, also with 700, then we could actually *do* something with spaces this large. But by the time I place two chairs, a table and a rug, it's full. Especially since all the stuff that's *already* inside (trees, lighting, rocks etc.) *also* counts towards the cap. I keep emptying out the places that I buy, just to be able to put my own stuff inside. And by now all my storage crates, my bank and various smaller houses are *full* of stuff! I'm seriously starting to consider destroying items that come with the houses, just to free up space.

If you want us to spend real life money on houses, think about splitting the part up and giving each the 700 item cap.

I can't see how developing all these huge houses to sell is making you money, if no one buys them.

Ravensilver

@ZOS_CullenLee , @ZOS_GinaBruno

I do want to take this chance to add something here:

I play ESO *because* there is Housing!

I have, and continue to have, an active WoW account. Yet I play ESO.

Oh, I love the quests well enough. And the countryside is absolutely lovely, wherever I go in Tamriel. And I truly enjoy chasing treasure chests.

But what keeps me here is the Housing. That's why I have an ESO+ account. It's why I spend thousands of crowns on furniture, on bundles, on houses. I even went to Cyrodiil, to get the skyshards (managing to completely avoid doing any pvp during that time), just so I can go buy a skyshard of my own for one of my houses. I *hate* pvp. With a passion other people reserve for foods that the loathe, or tasks that they abhor. There is no greater abomination than pvp (in my opinion). But I *went and did it*, just so I could have another piece of furniture!

I love Housing with a passion. Though many players are considerably more talented at furnishing than I am, I still love nothing more than spending evening after evening working one one of my houses.

I would even go so far as to say that ZOS earns most of its rl money (not counting that from payed for accounts) from the crowns sold for furnishing/housing purposes. Houses, furnishing bundles, special furnishings with gems or from crates, furniture that can't be crafted but only bought from the store. All of it goes to swell ZOS' coffers (so to speak).

Why then do I often feel that housing players' needs, wishes, thoughts and suggestions are blatantly ignored? Whenever I read through the forums, through the years, thread after thread, the same suggestions are made, the same requests have been written down. We've begged, we've cajoled, we've ranted and raved. We've suggested and offered our many and various ideas.

And what do we get? Oh... our systems are so weak, we can't handle that. Now... if I'd read that 6 years ago, when ESO first started, I would have said 'ok, I can understand that, you're just starting out, you have no numbers yet as to how your systems would be impacted'. But it's six years down the line. Technology has moved on and developed. Look at what's out there in terms of online games at the moment! I can't imagine that it can't be possible to upgrade ESO's systems to the point where it can handle more housing. Though I will say that I am *not* a computer programmer or IT person.

Why not give us feedback on some of our suggestions? Can it truly be so difficult to spearate houses into various instances, each with a complete item limit? That would go a long way towards placating your customers. Just look at the new Thieves' Oasis. Two huge houses, *plus* a huge outdoors. What is the difficulty in seperating those into three instances? I'm quite sure that we all wouldn't mind loading screens. We already have them when we access one of our houses. So one more would really not make a difference.

We're your customers. ESO might not be the cash cow of your portfolio. But I don't think we're doing *that* badly in bringing in money for ZOS/Bethesda. So why is it so difficult to not only interact with us on these matters (for example, this post has been here for over a month, and there has been no feedback on all our suggestions...), but to take them seriously? A year ago, during a Live Talk, there was a moment when we all thought 'finally, finally, we're being listened to and something good is going to come from this and we'll see *real* improvements and upgrades'.
A year later, and we have... nothing. More large houses, with too little item slots and a lackadaisical post on how things are never going to get better...

*sigh*

wolfbone

ZOS_CullenLee wrote: »

Howdy everyone,

One of the most frequent requests we receive in regards to housing is the desire to increase the furnishing cap. While we have touched on this before, we just wanted to reiterate that the upper-most furnishing limits are in place to avoid serious performance issues. While the core design philosophy behind housing is to give you the creative freedom to decorate the way you want to, we have to ensure that it is a stable experience for you and your visitors as well, regardless of anyone’s platform or hardware specifications.

That being said, improving performance is not a magic bullet solution for raising the furnishing cap in houses. “Performance” is a blanket term that encompasses frame rate, stability, memory usage, and other metrics related to how the game runs. Right now, setups that hit the minimum specifications can still struggle with homes that are fully decorated with relatively high impact furnishings.

We know that many of you have been hoping that our focus on performance improvements this year would directly result in an increased furnishing cap. We still have a lot of work left on the performance front and when it’s completed, we will reevaluate to see if we can increase the furnishing limits.

To address some specific questions and concerns:

• Different categories of furnishings generally have different performance impacts. Special Collectibles are more impactful than Traditional Furnishings, while Collectible Furnishings tend to have less impact than many Traditional Furnishings.
• We know not everyone is satisfied with the ratio between these furnishing types—these are set to strike a balance between the various needs people have. We could change this ratio, but any improvement to one group would negatively impact another group. We have no plans to adjust the balance between the different caps at this time.
• The number of guests in a home also impacts performance. At the moment, increasing the population limit would require reducing furnishing limits.

As always, we continue to strive to improve the housing experience. Moonsugar Meadow, for example, was created after listening to player feedback on the desire for more natural open spaces where you can express your creativity. We are always considering and tinkering with potential new housing features. As soon as we have something to show you, you’ll be the first to know.

Please continue to provide feedback! Letting us know what you like, as well as what you don’t like and why, helps us to improve. For many of us, logging into the forums and seeing your creations is often the best part of our day as your creativity continuously blows us away. The forums are one of many sources of inspiration for us, and request threads always factor into our decisions when adding new furnishings, planning new homes, and prioritizing improvements.

Thank you for reading this, and thank you for your passion.

I think this a stupid excuse. I'm pretty sure all the furnishings of my cyrdollic jungle house, both inside and out, are not rendered at the same time.

Tezzaa

MornaBaine wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

the irony is, they are worried about performance in housing and yet after patch cyrodiil is completely broken and to be honest broken for 4 years but we cant have a couple more plants

Well I mean if they can't fix a major part of the game that has always been in and a large chunk of development was put towards from the very beginning I suppose we should not be surprised they "can't" improve what was essentially an afterthought that they suddenly realized they could make a lot of money off of.

Honestly I feel like the bulk of the problem is twofold.
1. The megaserver. HUGE mistake. This was a new engine to them and a new concept (the megaserver) and they just threw everyone together regardless of preferred playstyle and ended up pleasing no one completely. They just didn't have the know how to make this work properly from the very beginning. And the game has suffered for it ever since.
2. Adding consoles. The OTHER absolutely HUGE mistake. I'm not wanting to start another PC Master Race/Console Peasants war but the fact remains that the platforms are and should be kept MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. If they really wanted to make ESO for consoles, great. But it should have been developed absolutely independently from the PC game and it should have been explicitly stated up front that there WOULD BE variations between the two games. Because absolutely console implementation limits what can be done for PC. And this is just really not acceptable.

100% on all of this! Consoles are and should be kept separate. They are for most other games for both styles. [Snip]

[Edited for baiting]

Tezzaa

Tezzaa wrote: »

MornaBaine wrote: »

xbobx15 wrote: »

the irony is, they are worried about performance in housing and yet after patch cyrodiil is completely broken and to be honest broken for 4 years but we cant have a couple more plants

Well I mean if they can't fix a major part of the game that has always been in and a large chunk of development was put towards from the very beginning I suppose we should not be surprised they "can't" improve what was essentially an afterthought that they suddenly realized they could make a lot of money off of.

Honestly I feel like the bulk of the problem is twofold.
1. The megaserver. HUGE mistake. This was a new engine to them and a new concept (the megaserver) and they just threw everyone together regardless of preferred playstyle and ended up pleasing no one completely. They just didn't have the know how to make this work properly from the very beginning. And the game has suffered for it ever since.
2. Adding consoles. The OTHER absolutely HUGE mistake. I'm not wanting to start another PC Master Race/Console Peasants war but the fact remains that the platforms are and should be kept MUTUALLY EXCLUSIVE. If they really wanted to make ESO for consoles, great. But it should have been developed absolutely independently from the PC game and it should have been explicitly stated up front that there WOULD BE variations between the two games. Because absolutely console implementation limits what can be done for PC. And this is just really not acceptable.

100% on all of this! Consoles are and should be kept separate. They are for most other games for both styles. [Snip]

[Edited for baiting]

WOW way to snip a comment and remove all context!

Ravensilver

Tezzaa wrote: »

[Edited for baiting]

What does "edited for baiting" mean? I don't understand the context here... (not sarcasm... I'm honestly curious and English is my second language, so maybe I'm misunderstanding something here...).

driosketch

Ravensilver wrote: »

Tezzaa wrote: »

[Edited for baiting]

What does "edited for baiting" mean? I don't understand the context here... (not sarcasm... I'm honestly curious and English is my second language, so maybe I'm misunderstanding something here...).

@Ravensilver
It means a moderator for this message board removed part of Tezzaa's message because it was against the rules.

Baiting means posting such words to start an argument.

Ravensilver

@Ravensilver
It means a moderator for this message board removed part of Tezzaa's message because it was against the rules.

Baiting means posting such words to start an argument.

Ah... thank you for clearing that up. ^^;;

LadySinflower

If you are truly listening, please stop giving us so many huge, palace-like monstrosities that are so difficult to make into a cozy living space. It seems like with every expansion there is a new huge "home" that you want to sell through the crown store on a limited-time basis. What we want are other options as well. Medium sized living spaces obtainable for a reasonable amount of in-game gold and not limited time availability. If you would give us more choices, maybe we wouldn't be so resentful of the huge crown store palaces. Show us you're really listening.

Ravensilver

LadySinflower wrote: »

Show us you're really listening.

Unfortunately, I have the feeling that no one is listening to us. It's been over 1 1/2 Months since ZOS_CullenLee first posted here. I've looked at his profile, and he's been in and out of the forum regularily. But has there been any response, any answer to our posts here? No.

I feel a little like a child that's been given make work "Please continue to provide feedback! Letting us know what you like, as well as what you don’t like and why, helps us to improve." to keep us occupied. It's what I used to do with my daughter when she was small. Give her a project that gets her involved and she'd be happily off in a corner, totally immersed and leaving me to continue with whatever I was doing in peace and quiet.

We're told to 'provide feedback'. But there is not response to our feedback. Neither here, nor in talks or anywhere else. All we get are same old, same old - huge houses (and just how much server capacity do you need just to render those palaces *without* all the furniture and stuff we put in? O.o) for equally huge crown prices, not enough slots, few to none of the improvements or new furniture that we request, or if, then again for lots and lots of crowns.

Sometimes I'm not sure whether ZOS is not starting to lose sight of the most important parts of ESO: the players/subscribers. After all, if we didn't put our money down every month - and not just our subscriptions, but on top of that investing in crowns and crates and DLCs and Collector's Editions - there would *be* no ESO. And if all players did that, then there would be no ZOS - no big fat bonusses for the CEOs, no stocks to buy and trade, no yachts... or whatever the higher ups at ZOS/Bethesday spend their money on.

We're not just the ignorant, unwashed masses 'down here', dear ZOS/Bethesday. We're the ones making it all possible with our money.

So it would be only polite if we would be treated as the valued customers that we supposedly are. And be involved in a proper dialogue with the developers and not just ignored after getting thrown a dried out, half-moldy, meatless bone.

ob1ken0bi

If the cap can not be raised, can there be a way to acquire more homes without coming from the store? Maybe through achievements. At least a couple....

volkeswagon

I have refrained from buying many of the notable homes because I know I could never furnish it correctly with the current limit. Notable homes with smaller rooms appeal to be because the can be furnished properly, such as the Grand Topal Hideaway or the Arena house. Houses with huge rooms are hard to complete without looking bare

tim99

for me it's the reason i stopped housing. i mean the 700 slots... i already get interrupted in building when its not even half finished by this limit. thats made me so sad/annoyed that it happened a couple times now, that i had to shut down the game and made some youtube sessions. recently i started another try by moving my main house to the grotto, but again the same... reached the 700 limit at day 3, not even half finished, and started again to remove items to get some slots, but when u r at this point you just destroy it. the new idea wont be finished, and the old thing where you removing deco get worse every item you take away.

so in my eyes, it must be raised by a huge amount, even double it to 1400 items at this time would just be a starter for me.
i'm aware this will not happen, so this is the only option for housing for me: [snip]

[edited for inappropriate content]

MornaBaine

@ZOS_Racheal it's so nice that you're reading this thread. Think we might get some actual official responses that AREN'T just moderating posts?

Ravensilver

I have decided *not* to buy the Thieves' Oasis.

Which is a pity, because I really like the fact that it's one of the newer houses that a) isn't moldy, b) isn't falling down and c) isn't so dark as to give anyone using it instant depressions. Yes, the constant sandstorms, which go *through* walls and other items (including items that you place, once you own the thing) are also a factor. They get on my nerves, but they do that in Twin Arches, too.

I'm not buying it (though I am a *total* Housing fan and own 45 of the available rooms/houses), because of all the reasons that have been posted here and elsewhere on the Forums, the Discords, the Twitch streams and so on.
It's too large.
700 item slots for what is basically two huge houses *and* a huge outdoors is *not* enough.
It's too expensive for what is possible, furnishing wise (-> 700 slots).
ZOS is ignoring the Housing community.

I have pondered the excuse that ZOS uses over and over again - not enough server capacity, not enough computing power etc. And have ended with a sense of total disbelief.

Why?

ZOS is a company whose whole and main business is putting out computer games. So one would think that it would be in ZOS' interest to do everything it can, to make sure that its business - computer games - is working at peak efficiency. But it doesn't.

This is like Pizza Hut selling Pizzas without topping. Every day, customers would come and say 'oh, we want toppings on our pizzas' and PH replies 'sorry, we can't give you toppings on our pizza, but here, have a double dough pizza for double the price and be happy with it...'. Customers would go and offer suggestions, how PH could put toppings on the pizza after all. And every time PH would reply 'oh, the ovens are too small for toppings' or 'we can't buy tomatoes because the supermarket is closed' or 'the fire in the oven is always so hot, it burns the topping so we can't offer any' and end with 'but here we have a double dough pizza for three times the price - you should be happy that we're offering this to you so take it and be quiet'.

How long would Pizza Hut survive? Certainly for a while, because it has loyal customers, and there *are* still enough people who will buy double dough pizzas without topping for three times the price, because they keep hoping that PH will eventually build bigger ovens, install temperature control and manage a trip to the supermarket.
But somewhere, deep in the bowels of PH's corporate headquarters, a bunch of CEOs is chortling over the next month's earnings, because *again* customers were so stupid to fall for their advertising, to keep hoping that *maybe*, maybe one day PH would be able to supply toppings.

Why is ZOS incapable of upgrading their servers? Why does it not invest in the infrastructure needed to keep their customers happy? This isn't just a recent problem, but rather one that has been ongoing. And nowhere do we see this more than in Housing (and PvP - but since I don't do PvP, it's not my place to complain about it). I don't get it. Is no one at ZOS ashamed of their bad performance? No, probably not, or they might do something about it.

In the end, we can only show our displeasure via our wallets.

So, no, I am not going to buy Thieves' Oasis. Just like I didn't buy the Forge. And we'll see whether anything that comes out with the new expansion will be anything that I'm willing to spend money on... (I'd rather spend gold, to be honest...).

*steps off her soap box*

Olauron

Ravensilver wrote: »

Why is ZOS incapable of upgrading their servers? Why does it not invest in the infrastructure needed to keep their customers happy?

Let's face it, ESO is not in the investment phase of its life cycle. ESO is in the return of investment phase. I don't expect ZOS to invest something into systems that will not give an equivalent return in the nearest future. Since ZOS has stated that increasing furniture limits is not an option then it is not expected to give considerable enough return.

ZOS can do other things though. For example, ZOS can change sizes of the new and maybe even existing houses: rename small houses to medium, medium houses to large houses, large houses to manors with appropriate changes of limits.

Another change can be done only with new houses, but I will explain it taking Thieves' Oasis as an example. This change is dividing houses into different instances with independent limits. Thieves' Oasis has outdoors and two interiors. Such layout can be done as three different instances with three different limits. The is likely a drawback that the these three parts should be bought one by one as three different houses. So, instead of 13 000 for the current whole big house there will be 5 000 for exterior, 4 000 for one interior and 4 000 for another (I am keeping the resulting cost but there is no way to know is it the same or not for the new house that is sold separately and not as a whole).