Stuck in combat - a simple and constructive solution

visionality

Combut bug is as terrible as ever, dispite anything that ZOS tries to solve it. So here is a very simple idea to finally fix it:

REMOVE COMBAT STATUS COMPLETELY

• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to get on his mount during a fight. If he wants to flee and survives the mounting, let him get away.
• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to change slotted skills during a fight. If you want to prevent ppl from using addons for 1-key-reslotting, effectively giving them more than 10 skills on their skill bar, go back to the original cooldown: You only can change skills after 30 seconds of your character taking no damage. That worked perfectly well, prevented abuse and was 1000% better than the perma-combat status of today.
• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to change weapons or armor during a fight. If you want to prevent abuse, same as above: 30 seconds no damage on char before you are allowed to switch

I'm tired of having to walk through Cyrodiil all night on foot or look for some unfriendly NPC to kill me so I can respawn on location without combat status. Especially since combat status regularily just starts again after a respawn.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom: pls read and consider!

Spartabunny08

That's what I'm saying. If it can't work properly delete it please

Mr_Walker

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

That's what I'm saying. If it can't work properly delete it please

So delete PvP?

Joy_Division

visionality wrote: »

Combut bug is as terrible as ever, dispite anything that ZOS tries to solve it. So here is a very simple idea to finally fix it:

REMOVE COMBAT STATUS COMPLETELY

• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to get on his mount during a fight. If he wants to flee and survives the mounting, let him get away.
• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to change slotted skills during a fight. If you want to prevent ppl from using addons for 1-key-reslotting, effectively giving them more than 10 skills on their skill bar, go back to the original cooldown: You only can change skills after 30 seconds of your character taking no damage. That worked perfectly well, prevented abuse and was 1000% better than the perma-combat status of today.
• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to change weapons or armor during a fight. If you want to prevent abuse, same as above: 30 seconds no damage on char before you are allowed to switch

I'm tired of having to walk through Cyrodiil all night on foot or look for some unfriendly NPC to kill me so I can respawn on location without combat status. Especially since combat status regularily just starts again after a respawn.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom: pls read and consider!

I can tell you after having a face to face conversation with several devs about this issue is that they are 1000% against people switching their gear in a combat scenario (specifically PvPers, they are very considerate to PvEers in having the bosses chat with you while you switch to the most optimal setups).

So your 2nd and 3rd suggestions are non starters. Don't even waste your breath. Stuck in combat has been here for years and it's going to be here for years.

I made this video Jan 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Yg1MOWy04

This video was made Feb 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJXGblI1OHM

You'd think the frustration of dealing with that night after night might prompt them to reconsider the question of whether or not preventing some random Nightblade, who will suck just as much with 20 skills as they do with 10 probably, from switching their skills. They may play the game regularly, but no way for Cyrodiil and certainly not with caring about something like the Alliance scoring, which is every night impacted by this bug..

I know I for sure would rate as a much higher priority, you know, actually playing the game. But I'm kind of weird like that; I'd rather not cut my nose to spite my face

Zer0_CooL

What about sets like shalk exoskeleton, or clever alchemist?

visionality

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can tell you after having a face to face conversation with several devs about this issue is that they are 1000% against people switching their gear in a combat scenario (specifically PvPers, they are very considerate to PvEers in having the bosses chat with you while you switch to the most optimal setups).

So your 2nd and 3rd suggestions are non starters.

@Joy_Division: I understand devs concern about players swapping skills during fights with any of the available addons, effectively giving them a 3rd and 4th skillbar if they desire. But there are better ways to prevent that then the ongoing perma-combat-bug.

2 years ago, when defending a keep against a mass of enemies and realizing that solo-skills would not help there, I could sneak into a quiet corner in the inner keep, take no damage for 30 seconds and then switch skills and even gear to my hearts desire. Thats entirely different from switching gear in the middle of a fight - which a lot of exploiters would instantly do if they could, ofc - and I cannot remember even ONE person complaing about it 2 years ago.

Its not only an obvious soiution to an endless, gamebreaking problem, its also one that already worked perfectly well in ESO.

Joy_Division

visionality wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can tell you after having a face to face conversation with several devs about this issue is that they are 1000% against people switching their gear in a combat scenario (specifically PvPers, they are very considerate to PvEers in having the bosses chat with you while you switch to the most optimal setups).

So your 2nd and 3rd suggestions are non starters.

@Joy_Division: I understand devs concern about players swapping skills during fights with any of the available addons, effectively giving them a 3rd and 4th skillbar if they desire. But there are better ways to prevent that then the ongoing perma-combat-bug.

2 years ago, when defending a keep against a mass of enemies and realizing that solo-skills would not help there, I could sneak into a quiet corner in the inner keep, take no damage for 30 seconds and then switch skills and even gear to my hearts desire. Thats entirely different from switching gear in the middle of a fight - which a lot of exploiters would instantly do if they could, ofc - and I cannot remember even ONE person complaing about it 2 years ago.

Its not only an obvious soiution to an endless, gamebreaking problem, its also one that already worked perfectly well in ESO.

Yes, and there was a reason the devs specifically changed that; because people were doing it without sneaking into a quiet corner of a keep. Besides, it's not solving the combat bug because you are still in combat. You're still going to have to convince ZOS to let you mount while in combat, which is something they have resisted since launch.

But if you want to plead, go on right ahead. i'm just trying to save you from wasting your time.

Mr_Walker

It's being used as an exploit in scroll runs, a couple of dps and a cheese tank build drop back, engage the chasers, dps sacrifice themselves to engage as many folk as they can, cheese tank build lays down an aoe, dps effectively sacrifice themselves whilst cheese tank build cheeses, no one chasing can mount for another 5 minutes.

frozywozy

Joy_Division wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

I can tell you after having a face to face conversation with several devs about this issue is that they are 1000% against people switching their gear in a combat scenario (specifically PvPers, they are very considerate to PvEers in having the bosses chat with you while you switch to the most optimal setups).

So your 2nd and 3rd suggestions are non starters.

@Joy_Division: I understand devs concern about players swapping skills during fights with any of the available addons, effectively giving them a 3rd and 4th skillbar if they desire. But there are better ways to prevent that then the ongoing perma-combat-bug.

2 years ago, when defending a keep against a mass of enemies and realizing that solo-skills would not help there, I could sneak into a quiet corner in the inner keep, take no damage for 30 seconds and then switch skills and even gear to my hearts desire. Thats entirely different from switching gear in the middle of a fight - which a lot of exploiters would instantly do if they could, ofc - and I cannot remember even ONE person complaing about it 2 years ago.

Its not only an obvious soiution to an endless, gamebreaking problem, its also one that already worked perfectly well in ESO.

Yes, and there was a reason the devs specifically changed that; because people were doing it without sneaking into a quiet corner of a keep. Besides, it's not solving the combat bug because you are still in combat. You're still going to have to convince ZOS to let you mount while in combat, which is something they have resisted since launch.

But if you want to plead, go on right ahead. i'm just trying to save you from wasting your time.

There are plenty of things that have been a waste of time since launch in these forums. The reason to keep trying is in hope that they will finally grow up and learn some respect to the community.

Hexquisite

Hard to play the map, when you have to run everywhere. A few guildies made pots just to kill themselves.
I imagine anyone who only has an hour to play prob gets super frustrated at playing run simulator for 30 mins of that hour.

leeux

The stuck in combat bug is one of the reasons why PvP population is the way is it atm too. I personally stopped playing when it became completely out of control, to the point of where you wouldn't able to get out of combat for stretches of 15 mins or more. That's completely unreasonable, it's a waste of player's time and any reasonable person would agree with that.

Also, the fact of the matter is that the stuck in combat completely removes any strategy possible in defense... you can't switch siege weapons on your quickslots and thus you can't respond to a changing environment around you.

This bug completely removed any fun I had playing the game before, and I never used the fact that I could switch gear around after the cool down... it's just the fact of not being able to mount after a successful defense/offense for ages, and the fact that you can't adapt to fights when you need to use siege.

My preference is to play the map and help my faction either with defense or offense, I don't personally care for killing players (I'm a healer) so that could a possible bias in my opinion on this.

idk

Joy is correct about the devs position a the devs specifically chose to eliminate our ability to swap gear and weapons if we had not taken or done damage for a short period of time. This was a stated change over a year ago.

So we were already not able to swap gear or skills if we were in active combat. Zos just sealed the deal.

However, when they made this change Zos also made the in combat bug worse as the in-combat state can last significantly longer and we can be put into combat even when there is nothing to be in combat with. I have been in combat totally inside of keeps that were not under attack and even at home bases that cannot be attacked.

leeux

I've been often time chose to die (suicide or getting myself killed by an enemy) and spawned in my gates still in combat. That's a complete joke of a system, IMO.

yodased

Performance is a big deal for mounts as well. Edge case think about a 30v30v30 fight and everyone summons their apex radiant mounts with summoning animations and particles.

They cant handle people blocking ffs

Ranger209

To me the two main negative effects of the "In Combat" bug are not being able to teleport via transit shrines, and the inability to mount your mount. Mount your mount? Anyway, they have a work around for teleporting by allowing you to do so while in combat. At least that is something I have been able to do lately so assume its not a bug.

They could turn in combat into a 2 phase type of debuff whereby if damage out and damage in = 0 for 30 seconds the condition changes to "battle stressed" or something like that. At this stage you are no longer "In Combat" and can mount, but are still under duress of battle stress and cannot swap out gear and skills. The current system could then be used at that point as it is thereby allowing mounting after 30 seconds of no damage in or out, but retaining all other conditions it currently has. Or if they could simply remove the condition of not being able to mount after 30 seconds of no damage in or out from the "In Combat" debuff that would work too, but that sounds like more potential for bugs.

I think removing the ability to mount from the rest of the debuff and giving it, it's own 30 second timer vs. damage in/out is the cleaner way to go from a logical standpoint. The downside for not doing this, I feel, is far greater than the downside for doing it. It is a very big pain point for a lot of people as is, and I really don't see a whole lot of shenanigans that can arise from allowing people to mount that have not given or received damage in the previous 30 seconds.

yodased

I think it's more of a performance thing than anything introducing more particle effects and tracking more movement plus a mounts stamina would effectively give you another stamina bar if you are sprinting away from combat and then can mount you are now messing with regen in combat as well.

Gnortranermara

All they need to do is insert a combat-check each time you try to open the game menu, so if you get "stuck in combat" you can open the menu and remove the in-combat status yourself.

If you have dealt damage or taken damage in the past 10 seconds, the menu should not open at all! (Which would simultaneously solve another ridiculous annoyance - accidentally opening menu in combat and when trying to rez people.)

If you haven't dealt damage or taken damage for 10 seconds, it should remove in-combat status and open the menu.

That's an easy fix for two gameplay problems, simultaneously.

Minnesinger

Can they please fix this problem finally? A long wait and still persistent. Basicly the game is trolling us who are forced to run from one keep to another.

yodased

SidewalkChalk5 wrote: »

All they need to do is insert a combat-check each time you try to open the game menu, so if you get "stuck in combat" you can open the menu and remove the in-combat status yourself.

If you have dealt damage or taken damage in the past 10 seconds, the menu should not open at all! (Which would simultaneously solve another ridiculous annoyance - accidentally opening menu in combat and when trying to rez people.)

If you haven't dealt damage or taken damage for 10 seconds, it should remove in-combat status and open the menu.

That's an easy fix for two gameplay problems, simultaneously.

How does this help with mounting or if someone hot keys a gearswap

merevie

When group finder broke today no one got stuck in combat. At All.

Soul_Demon

Joy_Division wrote: »

visionality wrote: »

Combut bug is as terrible as ever, dispite anything that ZOS tries to solve it. So here is a very simple idea to finally fix it:

REMOVE COMBAT STATUS COMPLETELY

• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to get on his mount during a fight. If he wants to flee and survives the mounting, let him get away.
• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to change slotted skills during a fight. If you want to prevent ppl from using addons for 1-key-reslotting, effectively giving them more than 10 skills on their skill bar, go back to the original cooldown: You only can change skills after 30 seconds of your character taking no damage. That worked perfectly well, prevented abuse and was 1000% better than the perma-combat status of today.
• There is 0 reason why a player should not be able to change weapons or armor during a fight. If you want to prevent abuse, same as above: 30 seconds no damage on char before you are allowed to switch

I'm tired of having to walk through Cyrodiil all night on foot or look for some unfriendly NPC to kill me so I can respawn on location without combat status. Especially since combat status regularily just starts again after a respawn.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom: pls read and consider!

I can tell you after having a face to face conversation with several devs about this issue is that they are 1000% against people switching their gear in a combat scenario (specifically PvPers, they are very considerate to PvEers in having the bosses chat with you while you switch to the most optimal setups).

So your 2nd and 3rd suggestions are non starters. Don't even waste your breath. Stuck in combat has been here for years and it's going to be here for years.

I made this video Jan 2019

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=v2Yg1MOWy04

This video was made Feb 2018:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJXGblI1OHM

You'd think the frustration of dealing with that night after night might prompt them to reconsider the question of whether or not preventing some random Nightblade, who will suck just as much with 20 skills as they do with 10 probably, from switching their skills. They may play the game regularly, but no way for Cyrodiil and certainly not with caring about something like the Alliance scoring, which is every night impacted by this bug..

I know I for sure would rate as a much higher priority, you know, actually playing the game. But I'm kind of weird like that; I'd rather not cut my nose to spite my face

Could be they need to consider just what it means to sell mount upgrades that cost money- real money, and were purchased to move around the large map....in combat was not a problem then when I purchased those upgrades and we were in combat for the allotted time, six seconds only. I can not be the only player who did that specifically for the purpose of moving around at an appropriate speed- but since they, THEY introduced this bug holding us in combat its about time that if they deprioritize this or fail to address- break out those checkbooks to refund the money they collected from the players for mount upgrades.

I think in most business selling something they know they 'broke' do not expect to keep your money and not give a refund if the 'product' fails to perform for any reason other than the customer breaking it- in this case none of us broke this.......where is my money? I expect a full refund of the actual cash money they have for mount speed as if I knew they would bug it out and ignore it I would have never paid to quickly get to max- This is basic concept- you broke ...you no fix, you pay.

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_JessicaFolsom , @ZOS_RobGarrett

Mr_Walker

How about if you don't take damage for 30 seconds you lose combat status. Not all that hard to do.

Delphinia

With all the mounts they want to entice us into buying, you’d think that they would have thought this through...

Cyrodiil is about as old and tired as I am at this point and the last thing I want to do is waste 20 mins of my time stuck in combat just to end up at an objective that is no longer worth the time I spent running to it.. or to get there only to have a split second to mount, swap out siege or gear, read a piece of mail before I’m right back in another 20 min round of “in combat”...

the only entertainment I get anymore during this time of hoofing it places is the fact that somehow I can still find some humor in all of this and then end up singing ZZ Top “Legs” and Jackson Browne “ Running on Empty” ...

MellowMagic

I cant even count the amount of time I've been "stuck in combat" in a dungeon unable to open a door meanwhile half my group gets in fine. It doesn't make any sense and it drives me insane. I carry a stack of invisibility potions at all times cause they seem to work.

visionality

Mr_Walker wrote: »

How about if you don't take damage for 30 seconds you lose combat status. Not all that hard to do.

Its exactly what I would propose for changing skills or gear. Important thing here is 'taking no damage' - not 'getting no heal', 'having no battle-buff active' etc. Not any of those eternally-stuck-in-combat nasties.

I still dont see why it should not be possible to mount during battle though. It makes you extremely vulnerable, so the risk of dying strongly counterbalances the opportunity to flee, in my opinion.

frozywozy

In the meantime we have official green posts in forums, official reddit posts, official live streams without even mentioning once the combat bug. Game of the year though! 13millions copies sold PogChamp

Spartabunny08

Mr_Walker wrote: »

Spartabunny08 wrote: »

That's what I'm saying. If it can't work properly delete it please

So delete PvP?

Really? That's what you took from that? Let me help, delete the in combat feature thanks.

NordSwordnBoard

Current solution on PS4 is to force close the app, because your blue screen was probably imminent anyway. If you PvP for an hour or so, sometimes its better to fix these things on your own terms instead of waiting for the game to do it before some fat AP tick.

That's right folks! You have to repeatedly quit the game in order to make it playable!

visionality

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Current solution on PS4 is to force close the app, because your blue screen was probably imminent anyway. If you PvP for an hour or so, sometimes its better to fix these things on your own terms instead of waiting for the game to do it before some fat AP tick.

That's right folks! You have to repeatedly quit the game in order to make it playable!

You're right and its the same on PC. But isnt it terribly sad that the fastest way to mount your horse in Cyrodiil (or change your gear/slot different skills) is to crash your game and restart???

leeux

visionality wrote: »

NordSwordnBoard wrote: »

Current solution on PS4 is to force close the app, because your blue screen was probably imminent anyway. If you PvP for an hour or so, sometimes its better to fix these things on your own terms instead of waiting for the game to do it before some fat AP tick.

That's right folks! You have to repeatedly quit the game in order to make it playable!

You're right and its the same on PC. But isnt it terribly sad that the fastest way to mount your horse in Cyrodiil (or change your gear/slot different skills) is to crash your game and restart???

The thing with that, though... it's a lottery, depending on how the server feels and how much time it takes to get back on, you can find out that you were booted from Cyrodiil when you relogon... so, it's a workaround but sometimes is worse than the problem, specially on high queue situations!

sharquez

At the very least let us switch our quickslot items freely, having no siege or counter seige slotable because someone in your group pulled the guards before you could switch is crappy. Otherwise all other restrictions seem fair enough.