AoE Rats in Dragonhold

Heresyall

Hello ,
2 fights from AoE Rats in dragonhold.
Group play is probably stronger than ever and the meta is magden/magdk/magnecro.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0LbWYPXvwRo&t=1s

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xY8-xpFH8Y

And some good ap/hour without any ap buff.

biminirwb17_ESO

Yawn, I see your alliance buddies were calling out for a second breach at Fare, so you run around upstairs getting very little ap from players who have already died recently. While AD try to also defend the outer walls.

Then try to take flags, but your setup wont let you stay still or you die so you run upstairs again,

EP zone chat says that you are losing the north.

Bit embarrassing really.

TheFM

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Yawn, I see your alliance buddies were calling out for a second breach at Fare, so you run around upstairs getting very little ap from players who have already died recently. While AD try to also defend the outer walls.

Then try to take flags, but your setup wont let you stay still or you die so you run upstairs again,

EP zone chat says that you are losing the north.

Bit embarrassing really.

Story of ads life in bahlkodan. The amount of blue ball talk wouldmake you think we were talking about something else.

MipMip

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

Yawn, I see your alliance buddies were calling out for a second breach at Fare, so you run around upstairs getting very little ap from players who have already died recently. While AD try to also defend the outer walls.

Then try to take flags, but your setup wont let you stay still or you die so you run upstairs again,

EP zone chat says that you are losing the north.

Bit embarrassing really.

Some people don't realize (see above quote) that not everyone 'plays the map', in fact many competitive groups don't, and there are other objectives, such as finding challenging outnumbered fights, that a guild or group can set for themselves.

Impressive as always, AoE Rats!

biminirwb17_ESO

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

TheFM

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

One trick ponies mostly. Me and my friends have setups just for them now, so when we are in group, we hit them with 10 or more proxy dets, negates, timestops, walls of elements, etc, and they crumble pretty quick. Alone i still try to do that, works about 50 percent of the time. Sure it takes skill and timing, but one you know their tricks, its real easy to deal with.

frozywozy

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

Always amaze to me to see people judging others playstyles but most of the time haven't experienced it themselves. In other words, I would be happy to have you teach us how to run a group of 12 players fighting on their own and having enough damage to kill people while being able to stand still under a siege shower and heavy pressure to flip flags.

The thing is, I know sometimes guilds manage to make it work and flag the keep on their own from the inside with a ram while dealing with that pressure and personally when it works out, that's one of the most satisfying thing to me.

frozywozy

TheFM wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

One trick ponies mostly. Me and my friends have setups just for them now, so when we are in group, we hit them with 10 or more proxy dets, negates, timestops, walls of elements, etc, and they crumble pretty quick. Alone i still try to do that, works about 50 percent of the time. Sure it takes skill and timing, but one you know their tricks, its real easy to deal with.

Only your 10 players without your faction zerg in the mix? Very impressive.

Oh wait..

TheFM

frozywozy wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

One trick ponies mostly. Me and my friends have setups just for them now, so when we are in group, we hit them with 10 or more proxy dets, negates, timestops, walls of elements, etc, and they crumble pretty quick. Alone i still try to do that, works about 50 percent of the time. Sure it takes skill and timing, but one you know their tricks, its real easy to deal with.

Only your 10 players without your faction zerg in the mix? Very impressive.

Oh wait..

Pressing 2 buttons for 3 hours, very impressive. xD PS, ball groups are zergs too, acting like mowing down small groups with a slightly larger group isnt zerging is hilarious.

frozywozy

TheFM wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

TheFM wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

One trick ponies mostly. Me and my friends have setups just for them now, so when we are in group, we hit them with 10 or more proxy dets, negates, timestops, walls of elements, etc, and they crumble pretty quick. Alone i still try to do that, works about 50 percent of the time. Sure it takes skill and timing, but one you know their tricks, its real easy to deal with.

Only your 10 players without your faction zerg in the mix? Very impressive.

Oh wait..

Pressing 2 buttons for 3 hours, very impressive. xD PS, ball groups are zergs too, acting like mowing down small groups with a slightly larger group isnt zerging is hilarious.

I'm still trying to understand what your sentence has to do with mine.

Alienoutlaw

nothing impressive about a healbot in action

Malpeczka

What addons was used in secound video especially UI with HP/MAGICA/STAMINA and the beams above their heads.

CrustyCroco

Here another none-impressive-two-button-spamming-one-trick-pony-healbot-video while we zerg them AD down.
People either realise what groupplay and skill (or more like situational awareness) is needed or dont improve, doesnt bother us
@Malpeczka those are "lights of meridia" for the beams and "sanct2019" created by our group leader.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=9WGYnBv02UQ

Malpeczka

Thanks @CrustyCroco
So still Im looking for this UI addon.

CrustyCroco

Yea, its "sanct2019" its not shared on esoui or anywhere else, just created for our group. Maybe ask @sanct16 on forums or ingame (PC EU and i think also occasionally on NA) if he might want to share it.
I also use "DarkUI", "Crown of Cyrodiil", "srendarr", "show global cooldowns", "miat's cc tracker" and "pchat"

IndorilArwynLlethran

People often tell stories about exterminating ball groups and give advises how it can be done. I don't see many videos about it. How Rats having tons of fun - yeah, I absolutely can see it. But how some 10 people killed someone that tier with proxy, timestop, blockade and negate - where is it? If ball groups are so not impressive, not skilled etc, why they always attract at least one alliance whole pop in one keep and farm unstopably for as long as they want to?

Malpeczka

Aaa ok i think you write about creator for previous addon. Ok thanks than @CrustyCroco

ellahellabella

Watches vid
Sees a group of 11 battle nearly 50. Is impressed.

Reads Comments
Egotistical players that fluff their feathers over ball groups, but couldn't save their ego from such a situation to save themselves.

Yep. This is normal.

Great job Rats! That was amazing gameplay and synergy!

Anyone that says otherwise just doesn't play groups and tries to fluff feathers about how they 'only play solo'.

Rukia541

Its far easier to coordinate in small groups than a zerg, zergs are just that... random players doing random crap with 0 focus. Its like the equivalent of me and my buds in WoW attacking raid summoning stones - sure there is a raid group worth of players there, but the have no clue how to fight other players lol only a few of us could take out an entire 20+

Its the same even in GW2 , small strike force are often much more effective than zergs because they are far more coordinated and easier to manage. Most zergs are near useless in an actual fight, imagine getting all those players to get on comms and work as a team. I know it exists but its much more difficult.

ShadowProc

frozywozy wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

Always amaze to me to see people judging others playstyles but most of the time haven't experienced it themselves. In other words, I would be happy to have you teach us how to run a group of 12 players fighting on their own and having enough damage to kill people while being able to stand still under a siege shower and heavy pressure to flip flags.

The thing is, I know sometimes guilds manage to make it work and flag the keep on their own from the inside with a ram while dealing with that pressure and personally when it works out, that's one of the most satisfying thing to me.

It always amazes me that some try to sell playing in a ball group farming pugs think it’s hard. Your not fooling anyone. If your in a group and 50 players are not the group of 16 has the advantage.
Everyone I know that plays small scale that played in large groups would never go back. It is WAY more challenging to fight solo or less than 4.
Most ball groups avoid other groups to farm ungrouped players because its way easier.

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

ShadowProc wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

Always amaze to me to see people judging others playstyles but most of the time haven't experienced it themselves. In other words, I would be happy to have you teach us how to run a group of 12 players fighting on their own and having enough damage to kill people while being able to stand still under a siege shower and heavy pressure to flip flags.

The thing is, I know sometimes guilds manage to make it work and flag the keep on their own from the inside with a ram while dealing with that pressure and personally when it works out, that's one of the most satisfying thing to me.

It always amazes me that some try to sell playing in a ball group farming pugs think it’s hard. Your not fooling anyone. If your in a group and 50 players are not the group of 16 has the advantage.
Everyone I know that plays small scale that played in large groups would never go back. It is WAY more challenging to fight solo or less than 4.
Most ball groups avoid other groups to farm ungrouped players because its way easier.

Why is fighting as 4 more challenging then say 6 or 8? The fights you take are completely different.

ShadowProc

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

Always amaze to me to see people judging others playstyles but most of the time haven't experienced it themselves. In other words, I would be happy to have you teach us how to run a group of 12 players fighting on their own and having enough damage to kill people while being able to stand still under a siege shower and heavy pressure to flip flags.

The thing is, I know sometimes guilds manage to make it work and flag the keep on their own from the inside with a ram while dealing with that pressure and personally when it works out, that's one of the most satisfying thing to me.

It always amazes me that some try to sell playing in a ball group farming pugs think it’s hard. Your not fooling anyone. If your in a group and 50 players are not the group of 16 has the advantage.
Everyone I know that plays small scale that played in large groups would never go back. It is WAY more challenging to fight solo or less than 4.
Most ball groups avoid other groups to farm ungrouped players because its way easier.

Why is fighting as 4 more challenging then say 6 or 8? The fights you take are completely different.

Come on Izzy. You play solo too. If you are in a large group you specialize in one or two roles. You can make mistakes and be okay as other ms are backing you up. Solo there is no room for mistakes and you need to cover all roles.
The biggest advantage for groups would be purge. That skill is still beyond broken.

ShadowProc

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

Always amaze to me to see people judging others playstyles but most of the time haven't experienced it themselves. In other words, I would be happy to have you teach us how to run a group of 12 players fighting on their own and having enough damage to kill people while being able to stand still under a siege shower and heavy pressure to flip flags.

The thing is, I know sometimes guilds manage to make it work and flag the keep on their own from the inside with a ram while dealing with that pressure and personally when it works out, that's one of the most satisfying thing to me.

It always amazes me that some try to sell playing in a ball group farming pugs think it’s hard. Your not fooling anyone. If your in a group and 50 players are not the group of 16 has the advantage.
Everyone I know that plays small scale that played in large groups would never go back. It is WAY more challenging to fight solo or less than 4.
Most ball groups avoid other groups to farm ungrouped players because its way easier.

Why is fighting as 4 more challenging then say 6 or 8? The fights you take are completely different.

Honest question. Can I take a player and bring him into a ball group and make him effective first day in a specialized role? Now can I take that same player and make him an effective soloer in one day?

[Deleted User]

Hello there,

Just a reminder to keep things civil and constructive when discussing on the forums. Keep in mind that baiting and flaming are both against the Forum Rules.

Thank you for understanding.

MipMip

ShadowProc wrote: »

Honest question. Can I take a player and bring him into a ball group and make him effective first day in a specialized role? Now can I take that same player and make him an effective soloer in one day?

Honest answer: neither. If a player wants to be highly competitive both play styles are challenging and take much more than one day to learn, and even experienced players who can be considered 'effective' will continue to encounter new situations and go on learning (fortunately!)

ShadowProc

MipMip wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Honest question. Can I take a player and bring him into a ball group and make him effective first day in a specialized role? Now can I take that same player and make him an effective soloer in one day?

Honest answer: neither. If a player wants to be highly competitive both play styles are challenging and take much more than one day to learn, and even experienced players who can be considered 'effective' will continue to encounter new situations and go on learning (fortunately!)

That is so not true. Give someone the build and tell them which 2 or 3 buttons and stay on crown. Easy support member. And yes I played high end g v g

frozywozy

ShadowProc wrote: »

MipMip wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Honest question. Can I take a player and bring him into a ball group and make him effective first day in a specialized role? Now can I take that same player and make him an effective soloer in one day?

Honest answer: neither. If a player wants to be highly competitive both play styles are challenging and take much more than one day to learn, and even experienced players who can be considered 'effective' will continue to encounter new situations and go on learning (fortunately!)

That is so not true. Give someone the build and tell them which 2 or 3 buttons and stay on crown. Easy support member. And yes I played high end g v g

I would be very interested to have you run with us one night with the build of your choice and see how well you compete with other players on the damage or healing meter. How does that sound?

ssewallb14_ESO

ShadowProc wrote: »

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »

The problem with many "Ball Groups" is their definition of a challenging fight, they can't siege a defended keep because their structure gets broken, this leads to either taking an undefended keep or running in after another group or faction has breached the keep.

Once in a keep they have to keep moving to keep their structure so flipping flags at a defended keep is difficult, in tri keeps with an upper level once forced upstairs they are usually wiped eventually.

I am not doubting the skills involved in Balling, just the logic. They are predictable and in my opinion a bit sad.

Always amaze to me to see people judging others playstyles but most of the time haven't experienced it themselves. In other words, I would be happy to have you teach us how to run a group of 12 players fighting on their own and having enough damage to kill people while being able to stand still under a siege shower and heavy pressure to flip flags.

The thing is, I know sometimes guilds manage to make it work and flag the keep on their own from the inside with a ram while dealing with that pressure and personally when it works out, that's one of the most satisfying thing to me.

It always amazes me that some try to sell playing in a ball group farming pugs think it’s hard. Your not fooling anyone. If your in a group and 50 players are not the group of 16 has the advantage.
Everyone I know that plays small scale that played in large groups would never go back. It is WAY more challenging to fight solo or less than 4.
Most ball groups avoid other groups to farm ungrouped players because its way easier.

Why is fighting as 4 more challenging then say 6 or 8? The fights you take are completely different.

Honest question. Can I take a player and bring him into a ball group and make him effective first day in a specialized role? Now can I take that same player and make him an effective soloer in one day?

I bet I could make someone a better nightblade than you in one day.

MipMip

ShadowProc wrote: »

MipMip wrote: »

ShadowProc wrote: »

Honest question. Can I take a player and bring him into a ball group and make him effective first day in a specialized role? Now can I take that same player and make him an effective soloer in one day?

Honest answer: neither. If a player wants to be highly competitive both play styles are challenging and take much more than one day to learn, and even experienced players who can be considered 'effective' will continue to encounter new situations and go on learning (fortunately!)

That is so not true. Give someone the build and tell them which 2 or 3 buttons and stay on crown. Easy support member. And yes I played high end g v g

You seem to be talking about some other type of group play than any of my current or past raid guilds (see my signature) play.

In none of these raids would it be acceptable for a player (in any role) to be pressing only 2 - 3 buttons. Such a player would not be fulfilling their role and would be considered a waste of a slot in raid.

Also, while obviously the raid stays together, a player's positioning is not about 'staying on crown' but positioning relative to the raid and relative to enemies depends on the situation and on the player's role and involves many split second decisions that the player has to make by him/herself.

CrustyCroco

I understand ShadowProcs PoV, if he made those experiences in his larger scaled groups, i don't agree with a player being "effective" playing like that tho.
Groups aren't limited to "only use 2 skills - stay on crown" and i don't see this in our AoE Rats group (besides @jam maybe).

Every group has a high influence on which enemies they want to fight. Run with your faction-zerg and only take on enemies groups with less or even groupsizes? Yea, pretty easy. Take and defend a keep on your own with a group <10 players? Depends on how many enemies are there and how well each player in the group performs.
And the better the group is coordinated and players actually perform on a high level, the more enemies they can take.
It's up to the group to define the limit. It's not easier than playing solo, when you set your limits higher and higher (like you do playing solo).

It's like comparing solo-sports like Tennis/ Golf/ athletics with team-sports like Basketball/ Football and say Football is easier because you only need someone standing on the goal-line that can fix the other players faults.

I know there are semi-coordinated groups running with their faction-zerg, satisfied with rushing from keep to keep.
But you can't really compare that with AoE Rats, who run 4-9 player groups anyway.

Oh and we are fighting ANY groups, we compete with full 24man groups that play the way ShadowProc is describing. They rarely stand a chance if we fight them alone. Even in keepfights when they are backed up by 30+ of their faction we have a chance to defend or take the keep, which is our selfset challenge.
So there is a big difference between different groups and thats mainly because we don't limit ourselves and are much more effective than groups that play like ShadowProc was describing. Our AP/hour reflects this pretty good, which is usually between 100k-150k AP/h and occasionally ceiling up to 200k if we manage to generate high ticks on top of that.

TLDR: Don't compare us with the generic 15+ factionstacking groups and don't limit yourself to make groupplay as effective and challenging as possible.

P.S.: Get rekt kredo exDee

ShadowProc

Not to mention the effect on performance. As frozen once was a leading voice on the effect until he was invited to a guild, it is night and day different.
Look at The main campaign on NA PC right now versus the standard one Laat I think it is. When both are pop locked it is vastly different in lag. Barely any actual ball groups on Laat and the lag is significantly better.
I have listened and watched a bunch of the ball groups videos and been part of them. If it was quick engagements with other groups it wouldn’t have an effect. But no. Most groups just want to farm pugs. So what happens? It concentrates more and more players in one area spamming buttons.
Most don’t play objectives at all. They just want the most amount of AP they can get the easiest. Hence farming pugs. Who cares about the performance for everyone else right?