Cyrodiil is overly DPS-centric.

NBrookus

Major_Lag wrote: »

As much as I sympathize with healers in ESO, who are being rendered increasingly irrelevant with every new update (and I used to main a PvP largescale healer character), quite frankly I find your proposition just plain silly.
It does not make any sense on a purely logical level, and also fails to make any sense within the context of the rules of the game.

Healers are anything but irrelevant in PVP. Heals and support are even more important this patch, IMO.

zyk

The classic MMO trinity is an artificial construct in ESO. You can play that way if you want, but you are artificially limiting yourself because the design of the game allows for a character that is strong at healing to also be strong at dealing damage -- and vice versa.

I would guess your actual issue is playing a character that is built to be a tank-healer. There's no reason a build optimized for healing can't also do damage very easily. But characters that are just built to not die are bland in all contexts.

If you want to play solo in any context, you must have a method of mitigating or avoiding damage, healing and dealing damage.

By playing a character that only heals solo, you are making a decision to limit yourself. It's really easy to swap abilities as needed or even gear.

I must also say the expectation that you can win an encounter of any kind simply by not dying is unrealistic and kind of baffling.

phuein

Almost every post now misrepresents my op and further posts. It's creepy.

- I do not play a tanky healer.

- I can flag as a healer with some dmg. But I might as well play dps for it, because it's way longer for a healer.

- There is literally no reason to not let players capture flags by means of their actual role. In BGs it works great. There is no analogy in PvE, so stop echoing that.

Almost all the responses are "just play [with] dps", which shows what everyone is playing. Which is why healers and tanks are rare and not as fun nor appreciated.

There is no point in all of your dpsers just echoing each other, saying the same thing that doesn't help or add to the conversation in any way. I already know I can play a dps.

xylena_lazarow

phuein wrote: »

There is literally no reason to not let players capture flags by means of their actual role. In BGs it works great. There is no analogy in PvE, so stop echoing that.

So what are you asking for?

You want the flag to flip because you're standing next to npc guards healing yourself?

You want the npc guards removed? You want to heal the guards to death?

Some people take this "play how you want" thing way too literally...

Major_Lag

NBrookus wrote: »

Major_Lag wrote: »

As much as I sympathize with healers in ESO, who are being rendered increasingly irrelevant with every new update (and I used to main a PvP largescale healer character), quite frankly I find your proposition just plain silly.
It does not make any sense on a purely logical level, and also fails to make any sense within the context of the rules of the game.

Healers are anything but irrelevant in PVP. Heals and support are even more important this patch, IMO.

Yeah, IMO this patch is garbage as far as group heals go - especially in PvP with the very mobile nature of the fights, for which the new healing springs are rubbish.
Between that, and the other problems with the game, my magsorc largescale healer has been shelved and is currently waiting for better times.

But it's wildly wrong to say that healers are (or at least, were) irrelevant in PvP.
From my experience, a good part of the random pugs didn't even have a selfheal slotted (perhaps PvEers grinding for caltrops, etc?).
Good luck killing an organized enemy raid if you don't focus their healers first.
Both in smallscale and largescale, a good healer is an invaluable resource. Especially in BGs.

And on an extreme end of the spectrum, I once ran into an enemy raid that appeared to consist ENTIRELY of healers. Yep, you heard it right.
They were relentlessly spamming heals on each other and couldn't be killed no matter what, but posed very little threat outside of that.
A raid like that could totally flip flags without fighting, just by outnumbering the enemy NPCs.

phuein wrote: »

Almost all the responses are "just play [with] dps", which shows what everyone is playing. Which is why healers and tanks are rare and not as fun nor appreciated.

If you played much PvP then you would know that "tanks" are quite common in PvP (or at least, that used to be the case before Scalebreaker patch), usually they were stamDK or more uncommonly magDK LOSers, stacking weapon/spell damage for insane selfhealing.
Although perhaps calling them "TROLL tanks" would be more accurate

Because of the damage stacking, these "tanks" were also quite capable of dealing significant amounts of damage.
On PC-EU server, Bubosh and extrawelt are the most famous 2 names that come to mind. You can find Bubosh's gameplay videos on the forum if you want to see that kind of gameplay in action. (Surgeon General's warning: may contain extreme amounts of tree hugging and rock humping!)

xylena_lazarow wrote: »

So what are you asking for?

You want the flag to flip because you're standing next to npc guards healing yourself?

You want the npc guards removed? You want to heal the guards to death?

Some people take this "play how you want" thing way too literally...

^ THIS

ESO is VERY lenient when it comes to "play how you want", at least outside of the endgame content.
But there are limits to everything.

Cyrodiil is a war zone - if you go solo without at least some means to kill the enemies you encounter, then that's just foolish.
Neither the enemy players nor the enemy NPCs will care in the slightest that you are a no-damage healer.

Against enemy PLAYERS, the best you can do as a solo tank/healer is to use a "troll build" which combines high damage mitigation with high healing (note: this might be no longer viable in the new DoT meta!) and makes you effectively near-unkillable in 1v1 encounters.
Of course with such a build you will have a near-nonexistent damage output. At least the enemy player might get bored eventually and leave you alone if they can't kill you. But it's quite likely that they will quickly return with some of their friends instead...

And as the others have said, even PvE tanks and healers end up dealing SOME damage through their debuffing abilities and synergies.

And in PvP, to be successful solo - even if only against NPCs - you MUST combine at least some of the 3 aspects of the "trinity": tanking, healing AND dealing damage.
That's just how the game works. If you don't like it, then perhaps you should consider looking for another game that suits your preferred playstyle better?

Dutchessx

@phuein, you stated at one point no healer mains had answered you. I am pretty sure some of them are but I know I main a healer in groups and I play magplar or sorc and I really miss my magDK. if I am solo. I can take a town solo or a resource solo. Yes, I put a damage skill or 2 on my bar as a healer. Yes, my role is not to dps in a group but if I get separated from my group then I’ll be darn tootin if I am going to let that guy get free AP from me. I can take resources solo I can take most towns solo but I have to time it right because of the timers on the guards. I have to admit I never thought about running up to a flag and standing there with guards hitting me to flip it. Number one if I tried it I would be concerned an enemy player would run up and then I would have to fight them and the guards, this usually happens when i suicide on guards enough as it is. I understand that is not how you want to play but it is the means by which to take that flag, even though I don’t understand the purpose of doing so if you can’t kill the enemy that comes.

phuein

This thread is not about healing in groups. Or fighting other players. Or managing some dps on a healer. Your advice, guides, and arguments about those are irrelevant to this discussion!

Dutchessx wrote: »

@phuein, you stated at one point no healer mains had answered you. I am pretty sure some of them are but I know I main a healer in groups and I play magplar or sorc and I really miss my magDK. if I am solo. I can take a town solo or a resource solo. Yes, I put a damage skill or 2 on my bar as a healer. Yes, my role is not to dps in a group but if I get separated from my group then I’ll be darn tootin if I am going to let that guy get free AP from me. I can take resources solo I can take most towns solo but I have to time it right because of the timers on the guards. I have to admit I never thought about running up to a flag and standing there with guards hitting me to flip it. Number one if I tried it I would be concerned an enemy player would run up and then I would have to fight them and the guards, this usually happens when i suicide on guards enough as it is. I understand that is not how you want to play but it is the means by which to take that flag, even though I don’t understand the purpose of doing so if you can’t kill the enemy that comes.

My impression is that most people responding, if they ever seriously main healer in Cyro, only did it for a very limited time. And my complaint actually helps to explain why it's not a beloved role that people stick to more.

In my experience, when I setup for strong heals, a single player is unable to kill me through my heals. At least, most single players. The NPCs can't even remotely kill me. That means that (if Cyrodiil was fair towards healers then) a healer could take a flag just by self-healing next to it, which can be rather quick if no killing is required! It would be a fun flag grabber role, when a healer wants to do some solo disruption. And yes, eventually a group of players will come and kill that healer. Just like they would do to a strong dps quickly taking over flags solo for fun.

Major_Lag

Dutchessx wrote: »

Yes, I put a damage skill or 2 on my bar as a healer. Yes, my role is not to dps in a group but if I get separated from my group then I’ll be darn tootin if I am going to let that guy get free AP from me.

When I used to main a no-damage healer, I would either crouch into stealth or pop an invis pot, since any combat was obviously out of the question.
If that left me in an inconvenient spot where I would have had to ride back a very long distance, I would then port to another campaign and back, to "reset" myself back to alliance base

Dutchessx wrote: »

I can take resources solo I can take most towns solo but I have to time it right because of the timers on the guards.

Yep, towns can be tricky to flip when solo.
Bruma is easiest because 2 of the flags have no NPCs on them. 1 in Vlastarus. Crops is hardest, all of the flags there are manned. You need good DPS for that, preferably AoE DPS, which was easier before the recent nerfs to AoEs in general.

Dutchessx wrote: »

I have to admit I never thought about running up to a flag and standing there with guards hitting me to flip it. Number one if I tried it I would be concerned an enemy player would run up and then I would have to fight them and the guards (...).
I understand that is not how you want to play but it is the means by which to take that flag, even though I don’t understand the purpose of doing so if you can’t kill the enemy that comes.

Yep - during primetime, trying to solo flip resources at a keep which has connection to the enemy transit network is an exercise in frustration.
Usually, as soon as the resource shows up as being under attack on the map, one or more enemy players tend to show up before the flag can even finish flipping. Now instead of a bunch of guards, you have enemy player(s) to deal with instead, and they are a LOT less forgiving than the NPCs...

Major_Lag

phuein wrote: »

This thread is not about healing in groups. Or fighting other players. Or managing some dps on a healer. Your advice, guides, and arguments about those are irrelevant to this discussion!

(...)

That means that (if Cyrodiil was fair towards healers then) a healer could take a flag just by self-healing next to it, which can be rather quick if no killing is required! It would be a fun flag grabber role, when a healer wants to do some solo disruption.

Well, if you don't want to discuss healers off-DPSing (or DPSes off-healing), then there is nothing else to talk about, really.

The rules of the game are such that a healer cannot ever take flags solo without killing the flag guards. Period.

You have failed to supply a convincing argument for WHY a healer should be able to take a resource without dealing any damage. It makes absolutely zero sense that the game would ever allow such a thing.

Imagine for a moment that the resource guard NPCs are actual players (who happen to be quite a fair bit weaker compared to "real" players, but that's beside the point here).
An enemy player shows up... they try to kill the enemy but it's not possible because of the enemy's high selfhealing. But the enemy is likewise unable and/or unwilling to harm the defenders.
Does anything change? No. The enemy force is still very much controlling the resource. The invading healer is little more than an irrelevant pest in this case, effectively a noncombatant who does nothing except just annoying everyone around him by his unkillable-ness.

TBois

Is slotting a seige weapon in you quick slot too dpsy?

Kartalin

I'm not even sure if this guy is trolling at this point, the point they seem to be making is utterly ridiculous.

Goal: Capture a flag
Requirement: Guards must be killed to capture
OP: I want to flip flags without slotting dps abilities in my healing build
Matter of fact: Guards cannot be killed by healing.
Conclusion: Contradictory elements

This seems like more of a question for the devs about why you can't heal guards to death. Players can't control that.

idk

phuein wrote: »

Almost every post now misrepresents my op and further posts. It's creepy.

- I do not play a tanky healer.

- I can flag as a healer with some dmg. But I might as well play dps for it, because it's way longer for a healer.

- There is literally no reason to not let players capture flags by means of their actual role. In BGs it works great. There is no analogy in PvE, so stop echoing that.

Almost all the responses are "just play [with] dps", which shows what everyone is playing. Which is why healers and tanks are rare and not as fun nor appreciated.

There is no point in all of your dpsers just echoing each other, saying the same thing that doesn't help or add to the conversation in any way. I already know I can play a dps.

I think it is more that you are missing the point and just want to play with a limiting build and want the game to change to your choices.

Further, you are flat out wrong that tanks and healers cannot have fun in Cyrodiil. If you are not having fun there you are doing it wrong. Granted, PvP is not everybody and especially so with open world PvP.

If you want to run a pure healer build you need to run with a group. If you do not want to run with a group you need to run a hybrid DPS/Healer build. This is not some overly simplistic game like WoW where you are limited so stop limiting yourself.

Lucky28

Yeah, well..... PvP is generally about damage. i don't know what to tell you other than you really shouldn't be running around Cyrodiil as a pure healer if you're solo.

phuein

It's terrifying that not even one comment has been on topic and offered some insight.

No, I'm not looking to heal guards to death.

No, I do have fun in Cyrodiil as a healer.

No, I'm not looking for tips on how to dps flags as a healer.

DPSers shouldn't even be replying here. It's a constant dredge of telling me off about wanting to play my actual role as a healer. Entirely unhelpful and empty-minded.

And no, you're not revealing some mystery or misunderstanding on my side about how the game works. Tanks and healers should simply be able to capture flags with their own roles purely, so not only dps get to do it efficiently. It's called variety!

Gederic

Offered some insight as to why you cant just stand next to a flag under guard and claim it? Golly gee....

If only the Germans had just meditated next to Stalingrad, maybe they would have claimed the city and won 4head

Rianai

The "holy trinity" is a concept that only applies to group PvE in some games. It is not an universal applicable rule. It has no place in solo play and it has no place in PvP. And in general, roles aren't very strictly separated in this game. Doesn't mean there aren't different roles in PvP, but again, specialisation only works in groups. This applies to any role, not just healer. The smaller a grp the less efficient specialisation becomes and once there is only 1 player left, he needs everything - dmg, healing, cc, mitigation, whatever ... Those builds aren't "dps builds". Those builds are builds that are suited for solo play and there are still a lot of different ways on how to fulfill those very basic requirements.
If you play solo on a build that has zero dmg (which btw isn't even possible, since every weapon including resto staff deals dmg with light and heavy attacks, whether that's enough to kill guards idk) you aren't playing "your actual role as a healer." You are playing a useless build not suited for the job you want to do. Because a healer is a support role by definition and as such meant to help other players. And not just spam heals on himself.

Major_Lag

Rianai wrote: »

If you play solo on a build that has zero dmg (which btw isn't even possible, since every weapon including resto staff deals dmg with light and heavy attacks, whether that's enough to kill guards idk) you aren't playing "your actual role as a healer."

Correction: it IS possible for a player to deal absolutely 0 damage to enemies while weaving light attacks - just use the Psijic skill Mend Wounds or its morphs. When enabled, iInstead of damaging enemies, light and heavy attacks heal allies.
Can't even target enemies with LA/HA in this state, but damaging abilities still work as normal.

However that skill kinda sucks, its usefulness is VERY situational at best, and I have yet to see anyone use it in PvP for its intended purpose.

idk wrote: »

If you want to run a pure healer build you need to run with a group. If you do not want to run with a group you need to run a hybrid DPS/Healer build.

^ This ^
Enough said.

Rianai

Major_Lag wrote: »

Rianai wrote: »

If you play solo on a build that has zero dmg (which btw isn't even possible, since every weapon including resto staff deals dmg with light and heavy attacks, whether that's enough to kill guards idk) you aren't playing "your actual role as a healer."

Correction: it IS possible for a player to deal absolutely 0 damage to enemies while weaving light attacks - just use the Psijic skill Mend Wounds or its morphs. When enabled, iInstead of damaging enemies, light and heavy attacks heal allies.
Can't even target enemies with LA/HA in this state, but damaging abilities still work as normal.

I did not think about that skill, but still, you can just toggle it off, so the possibility to deal some dmg on builds without dmg skills is still there.

VaranisArano

phuein wrote: »

Almost every post now misrepresents my op and further posts. It's creepy.

- I do not play a tanky healer.

- I can flag as a healer with some dmg. But I might as well play dps for it, because it's way longer for a healer.

- There is literally no reason to not let players capture flags by means of their actual role. In BGs it works great. There is no analogy in PvE, so stop echoing that.

Almost all the responses are "just play [with] dps", which shows what everyone is playing. Which is why healers and tanks are rare and not as fun nor appreciated.

There is no point in all of your dpsers just echoing each other, saying the same thing that doesn't help or add to the conversation in any way. I already know I can play a dps.

You fundamentally misunderstand the difference between Cyrodiil and Battleground flag matches.

In Battlegrounds, the match arena is tiny. Players are the only enemies present and they are able to see and respond quickly to flags being turned. Therefore, it makes sense that players do not have to defeat NPC guards who are able to turn the flags. All players have to do is stand there and not die.

In contrast, Cyrodiil is a much larger battlefield encompassing the whole region. Unless yoir target is obvious, or you are fighting at a contested resource, you are very likely to find your flag unguarded by any human player. Nor will any human player know that you are there until you've partway flipped the flag, and once they do, they normally have to travel quite a distance,to get to you or even transit back to that keep. For this reason, keeps and resources are guarded by NPCs of their faction. Not only does it mean you can't win an important mine or town just by walking up to the flags, it means that capturing players face a challenge or delay (usually minor, if you know what you are doing) that might give defending players a chance to reach them despite the distances involved in Cyrodiil.

Your idea that you shouldnt have to fight NPCs for resources or towns in Cyrodiil is flawed. NPCs serve an important purpose in the Alliance War: screening out those incapable of defeating them and delaying those who can, thus giving time for a defender to arrive and if one does, aiding that defender. Those NPCs can and will recapture the flags for their alliance, meaning you must deal with them.

You don't get to queue for an empty campaign and make your AP by walking up to a flag and letting the NPCs whale on your healer while it flips. You have to actually kill those enemy NPCs to flip the flags and get the AP. It should be obvious why your suggestion would be bad for Cyrodiil, I hope.

There are no NPCs in Battlegrounds guarding flags because a fast-paced 4v4v4 skirmish on a tiny map is quite different in design than an AvAvA Alliance War on the scale of a huge province. In BGs, there's no need for extra challenge because enemy players can easily and quickly provide that challenge, unlike in Cyrodiil given the distances involved. In Cyrodiil, often enough the only challenge you'll face at an out of the way resource is the NPCs, and we don't need to make resources easier by allowing players to flip the flags while healing themself through the incoming damage.


So as one of the posters who told you I can do it on a healer with some damage skills (still do, have for over 2 years now)...

I very much disagree that Cyrodiil flags need to work like BG flags. They are two very different PVP modes and both their flags work the way they do because of how their PVP mode gives players a quick or delayed response time. I think changing Cyrodiil flags to match BGs would make capturing towns and resources too easy.

Major_Lag

VaranisArano wrote: »

Your idea that you shouldnt have to fight NPCs for resources or towns in Cyrodiil is flawed. NPCs serve an important purpose in the Alliance War: screening out those incapable of defeating them (...)

Let's be fair here: anyone whose build isn't capable of doing enough damage to kill the resource NPC guards in an expedient fashion (and doing enough self-healing to stay alive in the process) sure ain't gonna be solo killing any enemy players who aren't "PvP potatoes".

VaranisArano wrote: »

In Cyrodiil, often enough the only challenge you'll face at an out of the way resource is the NPCs, and we don't need to make resources easier by allowing players to flip the flags while healing themself through the incoming damage. (...)
I think changing Cyrodiil flags to match BGs would make capturing towns and resources too easy.

Yep. It's already easy enough as it is - although the NPC guards seem to have been buffed somewhat in the Elsweyr patch, and then buffed even further in the Scalebreaker patch.

Now, instead of being a complete joke, the NPCs can at least offer SOME challenge to a solo player (in CP campaign; I don't play noCP). Incidentally, that means they are also much better at weeding out players/builds who are functionally incapable of solo PvP.

VaranisArano

Major_Lag wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Your idea that you shouldnt have to fight NPCs for resources or towns in Cyrodiil is flawed. NPCs serve an important purpose in the Alliance War: screening out those incapable of defeating them (...)

Let's be fair here: anyone whose build isn't capable of doing enough damage to kill the resource NPC guards in an expedient fashion (and doing enough self-healing to stay alive in the process) sure ain't gonna be solo killing any enemy players who aren't "PvP potatoes".

VaranisArano wrote: »

In Cyrodiil, often enough the only challenge you'll face at an out of the way resource is the NPCs, and we don't need to make resources easier by allowing players to flip the flags while healing themself through the incoming damage. (...)
I think changing Cyrodiil flags to match BGs would make capturing towns and resources too easy.

Yep. It's already easy enough as it is - although the NPC guards seem to have been buffed somewhat in the Elsweyr patch, and then buffed even further in the Scalebreaker patch.

Now, instead of being a complete joke, the NPCs can at least offer SOME challenge to a solo player (in CP campaign; I don't play noCP). Incidentally, that means they are also much better at weeding out players/builds who are functionally incapable of solo PvP.

Much like Maelstrom Arena is the ultimate test of solo PVE, requiring players to DPS, tank, sustain, prioritize targets, follow mechanics, and self-heal...

Resources and Towns serve a similar function for a solo PVPer who cares about objectives (which not every solo PVPer does, to be clear). I also play CP, and yeah, the guards have gotten more challenging since I first taught myself to solo a resource on Haderus! Its a good change. As always, the real challenge comes from enemy players when they actually show up, but the challenge provided by NPCs alone still requires situational awareness, tanking, DPS, and self-healing - essential skills for PVP in general and especially for solo PVP.

So I'm not in favor of taking away the requirement to kill the flag guards in order to flip the flag. Its part of the challenge of taking a resource or town and - due to the vast distances of Cyrodiil - its often the only challenge you'll face at an out of the way resource. When I solo resources at an out of the way keep, I can often grab two resources and not see an enemy player. Someone will usually respond by the time I'm cutting off the keep at the 3rd one, but if I moved to another keep, its not hard to keep going and only ever have to fight NPCs. Merely tanking the NPCs and self-healing so I don't die would be a LOT easier and greatly lessen the challenge.

Reverb

Let’s sit if I’m following. You want to capture towns be healing the enemy guards? You want to show your superiority by buffing them?

VaranisArano

Reverb wrote: »

Let’s sit if I’m following. You want to capture towns be healing the enemy guards? You want to show your superiority by buffing them?

If I'm understanding it right, its more that the OP wants flags to behave closer to BG flags so that NPCs can't turn a flag by being close. In BGs, its possible to capture and hold flags just by healing and not dying, whereas in Cyrodiil you must kill the guards first, otherwise the guards will capture/hold the flag for their alliance.

xylena_lazarow

VaranisArano wrote: »

If I'm understanding it right, its more that the OP wants flags to behave closer to BG flags so that NPCs can't turn a flag by being close. In BGs, its possible to capture and hold flags just by healing and not dying, whereas in Cyrodiil you must kill the guards first, otherwise the guards will capture/hold the flag for their alliance.

BGs flags behave the same as Cyro flags, but don't have guards. I think the OP wants Cyro guards removed?

That may not be a bad idea, since if removing deer and torchbugs helped performance, removing guards could do the same! Cyro guards are little more than speed bumps for zergs in most fights anyway.

Major_Lag

As outlined by the others above, removing the NPC guards from Cyro is a VERY BAD idea.

True, they pose no real resistance to a skilled player (and effectively at most a minor speedbump to a group of any size), but they are the only thing which prevents any random PvEer - especially of the "light attack hero" kind - from going into Cyro to grab some free AP by just standing on a flag for 1 minute.

If anything, the guards (keep/outposts especially) should be BUFFED considerably to discourage rampant PvDooring during times when Cyro is almost completely empty.

Dutchessx

Major_Lag wrote: »

As outlined by the others above, removing the NPC guards from Cyro is a VERY BAD idea.

True, they pose no real resistance to a skilled player (and effectively at most a minor speedbump to a group of any size), but they are the only thing which prevents any random PvEer - especially of the "light attack hero" kind - from going into Cyro to grab some free AP by just standing on a flag for 1 minute.

If anything, the guards (keep/outposts especially) should be BUFFED considerably to discourage rampant PvDooring during times when Cyro is almost completely empty.

I agree that the Crydiil guards shouldn’t be removed but should be buffed in the CP campaigns, possibly even a little more in the no cp campaign. I recently started playing some on the cp server and the guards seem so week there it isn’t funny. Where as on the no cp server a level 5 resource is more difficult to solo.

Major_Lag

Actually the flag NPCs received a ninja buff in Scalebreaker patch.
It's no longer possible to siege them down from max range with a meatbag, they will INSTANTLY heal back up to full.

Also they seem to apply a pretty strong defile now - I tried soloing the flag NPCs without a purge slotted (with a PvE build that worked very well for this before) and my selfheals were doing next to nothing; it felt like a 50% or stronger defile.

So after all this time, ZOS seems to be making baby steps in the right directions as far as the NPCs are concerned

phuein

Finally, the conversation is turning into something interesting and useful! Thank you.

I feel like the responses above are dismissing the challenge in self-healing through all those NPCs attacking. It takes a meaningful healing setup that won't do if a strong player comes in and attacks. So there is a risk and strategy to it.

Also, how quickly does a strong player kill those mobs before the flag starts turning? Is that extra delay really that meaningful to justify not letting players have more of a variety of fun? I don't think so. It's silly to encourage zerging but discourage interesting solo strategies that come with risks. Just remember how often you hated getting zerged instead of fighting skill.

Realistically, right now during the empty hours whether it's me self-healing on the flag or me dpsing the mobs and flagging, either way only player presence will stop me. If anything, doing the healing setup would mean less mob grind but even more risk from an oncoming player!

TheRedRavenTR

phuein wrote: »

At this point, I have to wonder what is the actual healer/tank/dps ratio in ESO. The most common response is "just dps" as if it wouldn't be more fun and efficient to just play a dps build in that case.

There is literally no reason that healers and tanks can't flag towns in Cyro without basically playing a dps. No reason at all.

Dude, this isnt PVE, there arent specific Tanks/Healers/DPS except in 15+ man organized ball groups. In pvp you need to do the healing tanking and DPS'ing yourself. You wont get anything done in PvP with a 100% DPS, tank or a healer. Again, this isnt pve. And you can't just expect to walk up to a flag and flip it while there are 4 guards staring at you while you spam heals, it would be the most immersion breaking thing ever. It feels like you just love your healer so much you want to be able to do anything on it without a care in the world. Like others say in the thread, if you want to play a 100% healer join a zerg or you wont be able to do anything in pvp. And just saying you wont do any good without being a tank as well if you want to heal because you will get focused down. Welcome to PvP yes, this isnt PvE. Healers need to do a bit of damage and they need to be really tanky to not die because they get focused by players that have the ability to think with their brains. "Tanks" need to have ALOT of self healing or they wont be any good. "DPS' players need to have healing enough to get themselves from 0% to 100% health in 1-2 skills and most of them wonder around the resistance cap which is about 32k i believe with having 26k MİNİMUM max health. Or they are just gonna die without being able to go offence. Welcome to PvP yes this isn't PvE hope you have a great time!

usmcjdking

How the *** is this thread 2 pages long?

The logic here is so mindbogglingly stretched that I almost can't take it seriously enough to post, nevermind actually taking it seriously in any medium.

Flags flip based on the controlling presence of the flag. 2 AD NPCs and 1 EP Player = flag stay yellow. 3 EP player and 2 AD NPCs means = flag flips red.

Faction NPCs are on the flag. That means they have to leave the flag in order to flip it or you need to increase the player count to be greater than the amount of NPCs on the flag.

This is such a simple concept that it blows my mind that someone would even bother attempting to subvert it.