Echoing Vigor vs Mutagen

Seraphayel

ProzTh3Almighty wrote: »

Its not vigor vs anything or Mutagen vs anything. Magicka can use shields sure but thats not the point. Stamina heals are all either ties to weapon skill lines, a single skill in the warden tree, scaling hots that everyone can usebut cost magicka or or ....vigor. Not Honor the Dead or Bubble or Coagulating Blood or Burning Embers or Cauterize or Matriarch or Resist Flesh, or Intensive Mender, or Restoring Tether, or or or or or or or or or or Rapis Regen or Mutagen or combat prayer or healing springs or or or or or or. If you want to make all skills the same then give me stam shields and all the heals cost highest resource an cool beans.

Sure then please give Magicka mitigation, break free and movement options Stamina has.

Idinuse

Iskiab wrote: »

So everyone’s been focused on comparing vigor to rapid regen, I think people have missed the big disparity of mag vs stam - echoing vigor vs mutagen.

Both have the same tooltip amounts, both heal over 10 seconds. The big difference is:

Echoing vigor - Heals 6 people
Mutagen - Heals 1 person, bonus effect that if it ticks while someone’s under 20% health they get burst healed.

The issue I see is echoing vigor is a million times better then mutagen.

As a suggestion how about these changes:

Echoing vigor - hits 4 total players
Mutagen - hits two total players.

Perhaps what would be best would be to remove the health condition burst heal entirely and make mutagen hit 6 players as well... but that’s boring to have two abilities be the same. I just want them closer in strength.

And the the “slight” difference in that Mag builds need to slot a bloody Resto Staff for Mutagen while any Stam class using any Stam weapon can slot Vigor. Vigor should be pulled out of the AvA Assult Tree and put in one of the Bow trees (yes every build should be both range and melee imo).

Or even better: make one Morph Magicka.

Anyron

Zatox wrote: »

slot vigor instead of mutagen

hm .. why not to use vigor instead rapid regen its ok it heals 3x less if im mag player, but thats fine

Mayrael

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

Ranger209

In my mind healing should revolve around the restoration staff. That is it's only true function, healing. It should get a 30% increase to all healing done. Stamina healing? I'm not sure why that is even a thing. Self healing as stamina is a requirement, but group healing as stamina I just don't get. Restoration staff should be a group healing requirement. If you are going to have a weapon line dedicated to healing it needs to be head and shoulders better than healing with any other weapon type. If not, get rid of the resto line and give magicka another damage type weapon in its stead. Any non class, non resto heal should be self only. Take 2, maybe 3 class skills from each class and make them group heals for flavor, but have them magnified by resto staff. Then adjust heals to the potency of restoration staff across the board. Maybe 50% increase to resto, whatever separates it as a group heal mechanic from a self heal mechanic.

FrancisCrawford

WrathOfInnos wrote: »

Just make Mutagen hit 4-6 people and healers might actually use it.

Hitting two people for 20 seconds was enough to justify using it in dungeons.

Saril_Durzam

They´re not comparable. One is a weapon skill, another a general skill.

Darkonflare15

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

So are you going to ignore all of heals that are in all of the classes. All the skills that use Magicka in the class skills. Stop it. Stop trying to be a victim. Magicka classes have plenty of tools.

Wuuffyy

Austinseph1 wrote: »

Considering vigor can be slotted anywhere but mutagen is locked behind a resto staff takes its use away from anybody expecting to stay competitive with dps. But this is probably more from the PvE side.

Lol cept ya have shields boo. Instant 60% health and more effective health.

Insco851

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

Considering vigor can be slotted anywhere but mutagen is locked behind a resto staff takes its use away from anybody expecting to stay competitive with dps. But this is probably more from the PvE side.

Lol cept ya have shields boo. Instant 60% health and more effective health.

Stam has plenty of dodge rolls by comparison. These things are not new.

Wuuffyy

Insco851 wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

Considering vigor can be slotted anywhere but mutagen is locked behind a resto staff takes its use away from anybody expecting to stay competitive with dps. But this is probably more from the PvE side.

Lol cept ya have shields boo. Instant 60% health and more effective health.

Stam has plenty of dodge rolls by comparison. These things are not new.

So do you tho. Free ones as you dont use stam skills gg.

iCaliban

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

So are you going to ignore all of heals that are in all of the classes. All the skills that use Magicka in the class skills. Stop it. Stop trying to be a victim. Magicka classes have plenty of tools.

Most magicka class based heals now work on stam as well.... Ill even list them

Crit surge now scales with max stats, cauterize, warden vines (the ones that pull) necro healing teather, templar ritual, dark conversion, warden shrooms have a stam morph, dark cloak.

The ONLY class skills that dont scale with wd/stam now are burst heals. Wont be long till stamina gets those too. Meanwhile, shields get nerfed over and over, while vigor gets buffs? FFS.

Insco851

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

Considering vigor can be slotted anywhere but mutagen is locked behind a resto staff takes its use away from anybody expecting to stay competitive with dps. But this is probably more from the PvE side.

Lol cept ya have shields boo. Instant 60% health and more effective health.

Stam has plenty of dodge rolls by comparison. These things are not new.

So do you tho. Free ones as you dont use stam skills gg.

Uhhh free??? lol
You get like 1 maybe 2 if you build for it otherwise you better save that stam to break free or get ready to revive when you are stam broke and stunned....

Wuuffyy

iCaliban wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

So are you going to ignore all of heals that are in all of the classes. All the skills that use Magicka in the class skills. Stop it. Stop trying to be a victim. Magicka classes have plenty of tools.

Most magicka class based heals now work on stam as well.... Ill even list them

Crit surge now scales with max stats, cauterize, warden vines (the ones that pull) necro healing teather, templar ritual, dark conversion, warden shrooms have a stam morph, dark cloak.

The ONLY class skills that dont scale with wd/stam now are burst heals. Wont be long till stamina gets those too. Meanwhile, shields get nerfed over and over, while vigor gets buffs? FFS.

Shrooms cost 4k, crit surge is and has been a universal healing value, cauterize (like flames of oblivion) has always scaled, vines heal team only (no such thing as an efficient stam healer), healing tether is not that great, templar ritual was already a free heal to begin with, dark conversion has always been a set health value and even MAG got that. Dark cloak heal is based off health and is bad.

Wuuffyy

Definition of free bud... if I run out of stam then not only can I not DPS but I am dead too. Your point.

Wuuffyy

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Insco851 wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Insco851 wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Austinseph1 wrote: »

Considering vigor can be slotted anywhere but mutagen is locked behind a resto staff takes its use away from anybody expecting to stay competitive with dps. But this is probably more from the PvE side.

Lol cept ya have shields boo. Instant 60% health and more effective health.

Stam has plenty of dodge rolls by comparison. These things are not new.

So do you tho. Free ones as you dont use stam skills gg.

Uhhh free??? lol
You get like 1 maybe 2 if you build for it otherwise you better save that stam to break free or get ready to revive when you are stam broke and stunned....

Insco851

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

Definition of free bud... if I run out of stam then not only can I not DOS but I am dead too. Your point.

iCaliban

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

So are you going to ignore all of heals that are in all of the classes. All the skills that use Magicka in the class skills. Stop it. Stop trying to be a victim. Magicka classes have plenty of tools.

Most magicka class based heals now work on stam as well.... Ill even list them

Crit surge now scales with max stats, cauterize, warden vines (the ones that pull) necro healing teather, templar ritual, dark conversion, warden shrooms have a stam morph, dark cloak.

The ONLY class skills that dont scale with wd/stam now are burst heals. Wont be long till stamina gets those too. Meanwhile, shields get nerfed over and over, while vigor gets buffs? FFS.

Shrooms cost 4k, crit surge is and has been a universal healing value, cauterize (like flames of oblivion) has always scaled, vines heal team only (no such thing as an efficient stam healer), healing tether is not that great, templar ritual was already a free heal to begin with, dark conversion has always been a set health value and even MAG got that. Dark cloak heal is based off health and is bad.

Incorrect. Cauterize did not scale until elswywhere. FOO did.

Arguing against the fact that many class based heals have been given stam scaling in the very recent past based on your subjective "they are bad" rationale is ridiculous and shows your bias. Tether and vines are both commonly used and quite good, especially when paired with vigor or rally, ditto ritual.

What the hell does "vines only heals the team" even mean? You want to heal your enemies?

Iskiab

iCaliban wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

So are you going to ignore all of heals that are in all of the classes. All the skills that use Magicka in the class skills. Stop it. Stop trying to be a victim. Magicka classes have plenty of tools.

Most magicka class based heals now work on stam as well.... Ill even list them

Crit surge now scales with max stats, cauterize, warden vines (the ones that pull) necro healing teather, templar ritual, dark conversion, warden shrooms have a stam morph, dark cloak.

The ONLY class skills that dont scale with wd/stam now are burst heals. Wont be long till stamina gets those too. Meanwhile, shields get nerfed over and over, while vigor gets buffs? FFS.

Shrooms cost 4k, crit surge is and has been a universal healing value, cauterize (like flames of oblivion) has always scaled, vines heal team only (no such thing as an efficient stam healer), healing tether is not that great, templar ritual was already a free heal to begin with, dark conversion has always been a set health value and even MAG got that. Dark cloak heal is based off health and is bad.

What the hell does "vines only heals the team" even mean? You want to heal your enemies?

Thread’s taken off while waiting for patch notes. Great entertainment.

I see comments like this one all the time, don’t you know it’s a negative in pvp to help other players? Anything that isn’t selfishly used is a negative!

iCaliban

Iskiab wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

So are you going to ignore all of heals that are in all of the classes. All the skills that use Magicka in the class skills. Stop it. Stop trying to be a victim. Magicka classes have plenty of tools.

Most magicka class based heals now work on stam as well.... Ill even list them

Crit surge now scales with max stats, cauterize, warden vines (the ones that pull) necro healing teather, templar ritual, dark conversion, warden shrooms have a stam morph, dark cloak.

The ONLY class skills that dont scale with wd/stam now are burst heals. Wont be long till stamina gets those too. Meanwhile, shields get nerfed over and over, while vigor gets buffs? FFS.

Shrooms cost 4k, crit surge is and has been a universal healing value, cauterize (like flames of oblivion) has always scaled, vines heal team only (no such thing as an efficient stam healer), healing tether is not that great, templar ritual was already a free heal to begin with, dark conversion has always been a set health value and even MAG got that. Dark cloak heal is based off health and is bad.

What the hell does "vines only heals the team" even mean? You want to heal your enemies?

Thread’s taken off while waiting for patch notes. Great entertainment.

I see comments like this one all the time, don’t you know it’s a negative in pvp to help other players? Anything that isn’t selfishly used is a negative!

I just realized what he probably meant LMAO. The base morph only heals the target... he is such an expert on stam healing he doesnt even know what the fantastic morph does. (heals you as well, pretty massive single target HOT) and it heals half your team in a bg with 1 cast.

Wuuffyy

iCaliban wrote: »

Wolf_Watching wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

Darkonflare15 wrote: »

Mayrael wrote: »

ZOS shows us where is magicka place, stamina gets all the toys. Can we at least ha e a "Selfish switch" in menu when we are not playing healers so we can actually heal OURSELVES?!

So are you going to ignore all of heals that are in all of the classes. All the skills that use Magicka in the class skills. Stop it. Stop trying to be a victim. Magicka classes have plenty of tools.

Most magicka class based heals now work on stam as well.... Ill even list them

Crit surge now scales with max stats, cauterize, warden vines (the ones that pull) necro healing teather, templar ritual, dark conversion, warden shrooms have a stam morph, dark cloak.

The ONLY class skills that dont scale with wd/stam now are burst heals. Wont be long till stamina gets those too. Meanwhile, shields get nerfed over and over, while vigor gets buffs? FFS.

Shrooms cost 4k, crit surge is and has been a universal healing value, cauterize (like flames of oblivion) has always scaled, vines heal team only (no such thing as an efficient stam healer), healing tether is not that great, templar ritual was already a free heal to begin with, dark conversion has always been a set health value and even MAG got that. Dark cloak heal is based off health and is bad.

Incorrect. Cauterize did not scale until elswywhere. FOO did.

Arguing against the fact that many class based heals have been given stam scaling in the very recent past based on your subjective "they are bad" rationale is ridiculous and shows your bias. Tether and vines are both commonly used and quite good, especially when paired with vigor or rally, ditto ritual.

What the hell does "vines only heals the team" even mean? You want to heal your enemies?

Not a biased or our points are both biased. Foo was the idea for the other morph and would have occurred either way. Vines only effectively heal up to one other ally (not yourself) per use and was not even being used by mag prior to these changes. STAM would only use it for lack of class healing skills or a stam resto staff. Get your facts straight man. Also subjective and facts are too different worlds. When something is performing poorly and has underwhelming stats on the majority of specs, thats a fact. When I think that vigor isnt OP due to x y and z outliers and I am stam and clearly feel a need to relay it being balanced to you IMO... thats subjective.

SkysOutThizeOut

Everyone complaining just needs to improvise, adapt, and overcome...... or change classes. What exact copies of each ability from mag to stam with different animations makes it the exact same skill no matter what color it is. I guess everyone cares more about equity in a game that allows you to choose what you want and doesn’t make you play it than they do about diversity. People care more about equity because “me, me, me.”

Wuuffyy

SkysOutThizeOut wrote: »

Everyone complaining just needs to improvise, adapt, and overcome...... or change classes. What exact copies of each ability from mag to stam with different animations makes it the exact same skill no matter what color it is. I guess everyone cares more about equity in a game that allows you to choose what you want and doesn’t make you play it than they do about diversity. People care more about equity because “me, me, me.”

What are you on about?