How to monetize PvP

Thogard

The claim that PvE generates more crownstore revenue than PvP is an accurate one.

It is not that PvE players individually spend more than PvP players. I’d bet it’s actually the other way around...

It’s that PvE players significantly outnumber PvP players.

BigBragg

1. AP bonus to ESO+ would be pay to win for the leaderboards.
2. Selling PvP specific maps is what they tried to do with BGs. I called it out then as a bad idea and will repeat now that is is, because PvP is based around players interacting. If not enough go to it the content dies. Imperial City can also be cited in this.
3. Customizable siege. AD would love that.
4. Adding custom death and res animations is bad because it will just add unnecicarally to the game load. Performance is already a struggle, no need to pay to make it worse.
5. Stop trying to make ESO into GW2. Their PvPs are different, and that is a good thing. Not to mention their WvW suffers from many of the same issues even with monetization.

apri

Wolfpaw wrote: »

The response you quoted me on was a concern some players had that I insinuated pvp players don't spend as much in ESO as PvE players.

What I was trying to convey was an interest to see community ideas for how pvp game modes like bg, dueling, & Cyrodiil could also have some item/content releases like pve/housing

Fair enough but I think the main trouble around PVP at this very moment is not the lack of spending options but the lack of stability and performance. Who does indeed freshly join PVP nowadays gets to see first hand the inability to properly play. The frustration threshold is different for everyone so I can just assume that quite a bunch of players would not even stay for the most fancy bling bling you could imagine if they have to deal with constant crashes, lag feast etc, the whole PVP situation basically.

For the whole community and for the public reception of the game it would be a difficult step if ZOS would add further annoyances to the troublesome PVP right now, in particular around the infamous cancellation of Midyear Mayhem. It might be a different story if what you named was not purchases but instead unlockables for PVP-related in-game activities. Tho pvp actually has a fair amount of unlockables like color dyes, skill points and housing items already. I'm not sure if that's thriving people to Cyrodiil. Fairly speculative topic as a whole tbh.

Tommy_The_Gun

Wolfpaw wrote: »

1. ESO Plus adds 10% increase to AP.

Would be fine, but that would mean that a "paying" player will be able to place more sieges, camps than regular player. Not to mention it will be P2W for scoreboards & getting EMP.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Add an Alliance Change token to the Crown Store.

That would mean that "paying" player will be able to totally by-pass alliance lock mechanism. Kinda P2W (or in this case P2 Troll other factions etc).

Imho, the only things that can be added is almost only cosmetics. Even if ZOS would add "siege bag" (similar as craft bag, but for sieges), that can also be seen as P2W (because you will be able to carry 1000 sieges in your back pack and spam them willy-nilly).

Kilcosu

I'd buy a crown furnishing item that gave your house the battle spirit buff.

make it kinda like a switch or an activated toggle. I'd love to have housing duels with cyro rules

idk

el.

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Ri_Khan wrote: »

This whole idea that pve'rs spend more than pvp'rs is trash. Unless several posters above are employees and have access to the numbers it's a 100% baseless assumption, fake news, purposely divisive thread...

"Context: PvP content doesn't bring the money in like PvE, housing, & non-combat items due to the lack of items directly tied to PvP within the Crown store."

PvP Content/game modes, not the player, was my intention.

No offense but your ideas, at least the first two are not workable for PvP. I pointed out earlier that your first idea is P2W since leaderboards and Emp are directly tied to AP. Your second idea makes no sense to restrict sales to only PvP as non PvP players would be interested in such things.

Unfortunately the very simple fact remains that the community has chosen to not support PvP financially. BG were requested ad nauseum and Not enough showed interest in paying for BG access so they were moved to the base game.

So yes, it would be great to think of ideas but those ideas have to be workable.

worrallj

I am adamant that the crown store itself is a toxic feature. However I think some ESO plus exclusive content, such as a special battleground or AvA campaign, would be very cool.

Wolfpaw

BigBragg wrote: »

1. AP bonus to ESO+ would be pay to win for the leaderboards.
2. Selling PvP specific maps is what they tried to do with BGs. I called it out then as a bad idea and will repeat now that is is, because PvP is based around players interacting. If not enough go to it the content dies. Imperial City can also be cited in this.
3. Customizable siege. AD would love that.
4. Adding custom death and res animations is bad because it will just add unnecicarally to the game load. Performance is already a struggle, no need to pay to make it worse.
5. Stop trying to make ESO into GW2. Their PvPs are different, and that is a good thing. Not to mention their WvW suffers from many of the same issues even with monetization.

Thank you for your valuable input.

apri wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

The response you quoted me on was a concern some players had that I insinuated pvp players don't spend as much in ESO as PvE players.

What I was trying to convey was an interest to see community ideas for how pvp game modes like bg, dueling, & Cyrodiil could also have some item/content releases like pve/housing

Fair enough but I think the main trouble around PVP at this very moment is not the lack of spending options but the lack of stability and performance. Who does indeed freshly join PVP nowadays gets to see first hand the inability to properly play. The frustration threshold is different for everyone so I can just assume that quite a bunch of players would not even stay for the most fancy bling bling you could imagine if they have to deal with constant crashes, lag feast etc, the whole PVP situation basically.

For the whole community and for the public reception of the game it would be a difficult step if ZOS would add further annoyances to the troublesome PVP right now, in particular around the infamous cancellation of Midyear Mayhem. It might be a different story if what you named was not purchases but instead unlockables for PVP-related in-game activities. Tho pvp actually has a fair amount of unlockables like color dyes, skill points and housing items already. I'm not sure if that's thriving people to Cyrodiil. Fairly speculative topic as a whole tbh.

The first sentence of my original post should explain this is not for the present.

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

1. ESO Plus adds 10% increase to AP.

Would be fine, but that would mean that a "paying" player will be able to place more sieges, camps than regular player. Not to mention it will be P2W for scoreboards & getting EMP.

VaranisArano wrote: »

Add an Alliance Change token to the Crown Store.

That would mean that "paying" player will be able to totally by-pass alliance lock mechanism. Kinda P2W (or in this case P2 Troll other factions etc).

Imho, the only things that can be added is almost only cosmetics. Even if ZOS would add "siege bag" (similar as craft bag, but for sieges), that can also be seen as P2W (because you will be able to carry 1000 sieges in your back pack and spam them willy-nilly).

Good points on AP, telvar maybe.

p_tsakirisb16_ESO

Monetizing PVP. Yeah. WE DO NOT NEED ANOTHER FORTNITE HERE.

BigBragg

Wolfpaw, do you directly work for, contracted to, or are marketing towards ZeniMax Media Inc. or their subsidiaries?

Wolfpaw

BigBragg wrote: »

Wolfpaw, do you directly work for, contracted to, or are marketing towards ZeniMax Media Inc. or their subsidiaries?

Yes, also blizzard, & ArenaNet.

My past posts should cover that. I have been pretty critical on pvp performance,..and resources allocated towards housing, & other fluff that take away ZOS focus on ESO pvp.

The game originally touted as a largescale faction pvp mmo made by some of the people from daoc.

"For the sake of this thread lets say ZOS fixed PvP performance making it better than ever."

To be clear, I wont open my wallet for ESO til I see zos make pvp performance a priority with results.

Taleof2Cities

I think you could still have the 10% bonus AP for ESO+ ... as long as that specific AP is not counted towards leaderboards.

Wolfpaw

Taleof2Cities wrote: »

I think you could still have the 10% bonus AP for ESO+ ... as long as that specific AP is not counted towards leaderboards.

As well as % tel var stones increase would be a nice addition to sub.

labambao

Performance chapter for 40$.
Works only when Eso+ active

The Uninvited

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Interesting thread.

And I never really thought about it, but you do make a good point. PvP'ers (on average) probably do not bring in the revenue that your regular PvE'ers and, specifically, RPG-driven players bring in. I think that is a safe assumption to make? Obviously people that are driven to housing and fashion are more likely to purchase items from the Crown Store as it offers items that are useful to their interest. On the other hand, there is not much in the Crown Store (besides the newly added skyshards upgrade) that will directly benefit the interest of a player who typically spends a majority of their time PvP'ing.

You'd be surprised how many PVP players are also into housing.

Gronk

best money way maker. Gamble with private discord channel and use pay pal to send winnings. Dark web has nice options too. Bitcoin and other digital currencies.

MaxJrFTW

- Fix Cyrodiil performance.
- Rework IC, free for all.
- Competitive ranked bgs for 4 player premades only. Random bgs for solo queuers only.

Start there, then we can talk marketing.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Donny_Vito wrote: »

Interesting thread.

And I never really thought about it, but you do make a good point. PvP'ers (on average) probably do not bring in the revenue that your regular PvE'ers and, specifically, RPG-driven players bring in. I think that is a safe assumption to make? Obviously people that are driven to housing and fashion are more likely to purchase items from the Crown Store as it offers items that are useful to their interest. On the other hand, there is not much in the Crown Store (besides the newly added skyshards upgrade) that will directly benefit the interest of a player who typically spends a majority of their time PvP'ing.

Thats cuz nothing new come to pvp.

Also you make the assumption that PvPer do not pay for eso+ dont buy chapter and font buy skins from the crown store. Wich makes no sense.

david_m_18b16_ESO

Donny_Vito wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

Donny_Vito wrote: »

TequilaFire wrote: »

As a mainly PvP player I have been continuously subbed for the past 5 years on 3 accounts and spent hundreds of dollars on ESO. I take exception to statements that PvP players don't put just as much revenue into the game as PvE players.

I don't think the OP was insinuating that some PvP players don't spend as much as other PvE players, but more as a whole he was making the assumption that PvE players spend more (which I would have to agree with).

If you had two players, one who only PvP'd and the other who only did overland PvE content, who do you think is more likely spend money in the Crown Store and/or ESO+. To me, it seems like a no-brainer...the PvE player. But I could be making the completely wrong assumption, and maybe there is no correlation between what content you play and how likely you are to purchase from the Crown Store...

Anyways, I do like some of the ideas of how to bring new items/functionality to the Crown Store that would target PvP players.

I have houses, the banker, the merchant, pets, mounts.
I have leveled 32 characters buying experience scrolls etc.
So it is the wrong assumption.

Lol, again, you keep using your personal example to summarize the whole PvP community. No real point in this argument.

Pretty much the same with yours.

D0PAMINE

Raudgrani wrote: »

Improve performance, and revert a few really recent stupid changes (like the new incap strike, the previous one was perfect), and PVP is actually good to go. It is pretty well balanced now, so for the love of god (or whatever), stop "balancing" and "adjusting" all kinds of skills now. We are fine with it.

I can actually agree with this. If I can log in and play then i've already progressed enough to enjoy the experience, even dealing with unfair scenerios. I'll take the bleeds, defiles, x80 destro ults lol. I just want to play without lag, disconnects and queueing in already stuck in combat. Does anyone like RP walking up to keeps then missing the massive tick because you freeze, then spawn into an enemy keep? All that if you can even get the damn campaign.

Mr_Walker

Tommy_The_Gun wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

1. ESO Plus adds 10% increase to AP.

Would be fine, but that would mean that a "paying" player will be able to place more sieges, camps than regular player. Not to mention it will be P2W for scoreboards & getting EMP.

Even if you only casually play PvP the bolded isn't an issue.

mandricus

1) give us the ability to create a "private" battleground instance, allowing us to decide the players (by invitation only), the game type and the team formation. E.g. create a "Capture The Flag" instance with 12 guild mates, select the teams, and be able to play the match with my friends / guild mates. Of course what happens in this private battleground instances should not affect leaderboars, players score, MMR and so on. This would also open up the option, for the player base, to create private tournaments or leagues, with premade teams fighting each other and competing for the final victory. A reasonable fee for each match (I would say no more than 50 crowns / match ) could be acceptable for most players, and could give zos a new monetization path.

2) Crown item to enable / disable battle spirit in player's houses

3) Crown item to enable / disable CP in player's houses

Sevn

Thogard wrote: »

The claim that PvE generates more crownstore revenue than PvP is an accurate one.

It is not that PvE players individually spend more than PvP players. I’d bet it’s actually the other way around...

It’s that PvE players significantly outnumber PvP players.

Finally! My goodness, all this posturing is pointless. Pver's bring in more due to the sheer amount of pver's. I still don't understand why any diehard pvper would sub? What are you gaining from subbing?

Most begrudgingly do a dungeon or two for whatever new meta build they need and never set foot in a dungeon again until a new meta is set. By most accounts they hate pve content because it's so braindead easy so why are you buying dlcs? Why not sub for a month, run that dungeon and cancel your sub. Why keep subbing for content most say they hate? Baffling.

Wolfpaw

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

The claim that PvE generates more crownstore revenue than PvP is an accurate one.

It is not that PvE players individually spend more than PvP players. I’d bet it’s actually the other way around...

It’s that PvE players significantly outnumber PvP players.

Finally! My goodness, all this posturing is pointless. Pver's bring in more due to the sheer amount of pver's. I still don't understand why any diehard pvper would sub? What are you gaining from subbing?

Most begrudgingly do a dungeon or two for whatever new meta build they need and never set foot in a dungeon again until a new meta is set. By most accounts they hate pve content because it's so braindead easy so why are you buying dlcs? Why not sub for a month, run that dungeon and cancel your sub. Why keep subbing for content most say they hate? Baffling.

Heck most of my sets are oldschool set that you dont need dlc's.

Spinners, spriggin, fury, trans, necro, 7th, war maiden, etc...

Sevn

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

The claim that PvE generates more crownstore revenue than PvP is an accurate one.

It is not that PvE players individually spend more than PvP players. I’d bet it’s actually the other way around...

It’s that PvE players significantly outnumber PvP players.

Finally! My goodness, all this posturing is pointless. Pver's bring in more due to the sheer amount of pver's. I still don't understand why any diehard pvper would sub? What are you gaining from subbing?

Most begrudgingly do a dungeon or two for whatever new meta build they need and never set foot in a dungeon again until a new meta is set. By most accounts they hate pve content because it's so braindead easy so why are you buying dlcs? Why not sub for a month, run that dungeon and cancel your sub. Why keep subbing for content most say they hate? Baffling.

Heck most of my sets are oldschool set that you dont need dlc's.

Spinners, spriggin, fury, trans, necro, 7th, war maiden, etc...

I'll ask you directly then, why do you sub? What are you gaining from your sub that's worth it? Terrible performance and you still sub? Please, genuinely asking, why sub?

Wolfpaw

Sevn wrote: »

Wolfpaw wrote: »

Sevn wrote: »

Thogard wrote: »

The claim that PvE generates more crownstore revenue than PvP is an accurate one.

It is not that PvE players individually spend more than PvP players. I’d bet it’s actually the other way around...

It’s that PvE players significantly outnumber PvP players.

Finally! My goodness, all this posturing is pointless. Pver's bring in more due to the sheer amount of pver's. I still don't understand why any diehard pvper would sub? What are you gaining from subbing?
I agree.
Most begrudgingly do a dungeon or two for whatever new meta build they need and never set foot in a dungeon again until a new meta is set. By most accounts they hate pve content because it's so braindead easy so why are you buying dlcs? Why not sub for a month, run that dungeon and cancel your sub. Why keep subbing for content most say they hate? Baffling.

I agree & was taking what you have pointed out a little further, you don't even need dlc armor to stay competitive.
Heck most of my sets are oldschool set that you dont need dlc's.

Spinners, spriggin, fury, trans, necro, 7th, war maiden, etc...

I'll ask you directly then, why do you sub? What are you gaining from your sub that's worth it? Terrible performance and you still sub? Please, genuinely asking, why sub?

Added in bold above.

This was the part of the point of thread. What would players that enjoy pvp, casual/hardcore, like to see added to sub/CS. Items that can be used in pvp (or both pve/pvp), & added to sub perks.

dotme

Sevn wrote: »

Finally! My goodness, all this posturing is pointless. Pver's bring in more due to the sheer amount of pver's. I still don't understand why any diehard pvper would sub? What are you gaining from subbing?

Most begrudgingly do a dungeon or two for whatever new meta build they need and never set foot in a dungeon again until a new meta is set. By most accounts they hate pve content because it's so braindead easy so why are you buying dlcs? Why not sub for a month, run that dungeon and cancel your sub. Why keep subbing for content most say they hate? Baffling.

The number of PvP players has fallen considerably over the years. We can debate chicken vs egg, but my own opinion is that if you neglect an aspect of the game, don't be shocked if people who primarily play that aspect leave the game.

I'm a PvP player. I sub. I buy housing. The sub is handy for bank space and craft bag - And most "die-hard" PvP players want to craft their own gear and make their own pots/food/drink. Almost every player I see in PvP has a nice mount, and those aren't usually free.

Rather than trying to make more money from PvP, maybe first stop the bleeding. Fix the performance, fix the bugs, and retain existing customers. It's a lot harder to find new ones after your "regulars" have all given up in disgust. Simple business rule.

WeerW3ir

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[Y] Toggle Recap (50 Crown)
[R] Here (500 Crown)