Faction lock is good

Enkil

@DisgracefulMind The devs rarely take into consideration the entire playerbase anywhere and pretty much do what they want. Expecting them to be sophisticated enough to make changes and improvements that will have positive implications for all as well as oceanic populations is simply a pipe dream. That’s just how it is. I know this all too well as I got started in ESO pre-launch while living in Hawaii from 2013 until 2017. The oceanic issues are real and you should post about them in threads appropriately titled and regarding that.

However, you cannot expect the devs to cater to one of the smallest player bases on the planet. Companies are all about the bottom line. The oceanic players will have no choice but to adapt to whatever the devs see fit to change, just like always.

Faction lock and oceanic time zone playing are totally different issues and though they may converge for you in a negative way, many other Oceanic players are clamoring for, and supportive of a faction lock campaign being made available.

DisgracefulMind

Enkil wrote: »

@DisgracefulMind The devs rarely take into consideration the entire playerbase anywhere and pretty much do what they want. Expecting them to be sophisticated enough to make changes and improvements that will have positive implications for all as well as oceanic populations is simply a pipe dream. That’s just how it is. I know this all too well as I got started in ESO pre-launch while living in Hawaii from 2013 until 2017. The oceanic issues are real and you should post about them in threads appropriately titled and regarding that.

However, you cannot expect the devs to cater to one of the smallest player bases on the planet. Companies are all about the bottom line. The oceanic players will have no choice but to adapt to whatever the devs see fit to change, just like always.

Faction lock and oceanic time zone playing are totally different issues and though they may converge for you in a negative way, many other Oceanic players are clamoring for, and supportive of a faction lock campaign being made available.

No one asked them to specifically cater to one population; stop putting words in people's mouths. Oceanic players are simply asking to be considered.

I don't see "many" others clamoring for faction locks either.

Ranger209

Server stability is the main thing the Oceanic/Asiatic player base needs to help with population. You can still play on an underdog faction, you just can't play on both of them if one faction continues to dominate. Best case scenario is that some of that dominating faction splits off to one of the weaker factions. Perhaps the inability to faction swap helps make that happen. If not, then hopefully ZOS implements something that takes whatever fun can be found in pvdooring the map one color out of the game.

Sheezabeast

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Galagos1 wrote: »

I expect that the biggest problem in the faction locked 30 day campaign will be that 10 days into the campaign, the population will be completely lopsided on the winning faction’s advantage because the players in the losing factions will not want to play a losing game or get zerged by the winning faction in every fight.

Volendrung artifact will spawn their side of the map. Will encourage people to play on the losing team.

@DisgracefulMind I agree oceanic can not play anywhere but vivec. I am of the opinion that faction locks will not impact population balance between the factions.

The majority of faction flipping happens on shor but that is the one they aren't locking which is interesting.

The mentality I've seen from players recently, on both EP and DC, when they're getting gated for the....however many times it's happened, is that defeatist attitude. Last night it was "well, thanks for coming to help but we should just let them take the scrolls so we can just get our keeps back, nothing else we can do". I've been seeing this more and more. Actually, I played DC loyally (yes, yes, I know, I'm the evil b**ch of the Pact, but I did main DC for over a year of this game ) when they were literally gated in the main campaign almost entirely all day. This was the same attitude, and people played less and less. HOWEVER, that's where I met the people who I still play with now - the EP who would come over to try and help the DC. Eventually, over time, those people started to main DC. And more and more came over too. The faction did balance out, eventually. Guilds started rerolling at one time, then DC was the zerg faction, then I rerolled to main EP, and, well, here we are now. My point is that the people who faction hopped to help an almost dead faction were actually really appreciated in that time. Even if we still stayed gated.

Now, I do see that faction lock will stop Volendrung abuse. But there can be other ways to implement that. Couldn't we do a soft-lock campaign, make it so that if you're not homed (you can't home on multiple alliances) that you can't pick up the artifact?

I do agree, I think Shor should be the locked one. And I do see both sides of the fence, I just want to speak out for the people against the faction lock.

Bee, I like your soft lock idea for trying to balance the artifact. You should try to convey this point during the pts, when you can test it out. Maybe get with a class rep on discord. This could be a reasonable compromise. I would be able to play when I wanted how I wanted and with who I wanted, and the decision to forfeit use of Volundrung would make the decision have impact .

Volsers

@Joy_Division If I may ask, what is a "good fight" for you?

Edirt_seliv

Oceanic playerbase is too small of a percentage to bother factoring into any critical decision making. I am against faction lock but i understand ZoSs buisness case for it's implementation and shxtty oceanic pvp is just a sacrifice that has to be made to apease the more important majority.

zyk

I think among AvA enthusiasts, there's probably a 50/50 split when it comes to this topic. We see that in divide in this forum.

However, among the greater -- and very casual -- ESO playerbase who doesn't pay attention to any of this, I don't think there is any tolerance for a rigid, inflexible faction lock as described so far.

As a result of the faction barriers removed from the game, I think it's normal for players to have characters in multiple factions. Players like me with all of their developed characters on one faction are outliers.

Therefore, I think despite the roughly even divide we see here, there will be incredible outrage when the impact of the change reaches the average ESO player. This will be especially true when players accidentally lock the main campaign to the wrong character.

So even the players who prefer faction locks should be against such an inflexible lock because it's destined to fail.

Volsers

@zyk ZOS has basically stated though that you gotta be pretty dumb if you accidentally lock the campaign to the wrong character because you will get messages warning you what you are about to do and explaining it crystal clear.

Casuals simply don't care, they don't have time to. They just want to jump in and have some fun. If they want the tier 3 reward they will play home til they get it and then do whatever they want. I have spoken to casuals so this is how I would very shortly summarize their views. I recently had a discussion with a casual and we both believe that the pvp environment in it self on a faction locked campaign will also be much more beneficent to the casual player as its much more fair and combative.

Joy_Division

Volsers wrote: »

@Joy_Division If I may ask, what is a "good fight" for you?

I'd say these three components make up a good fight:

1. Both sides have roughly the same collective strength
2. The map is dynamic and reasonably balanced such that the loser feels they can win the next fight
3. It lasts somewhere between one-shot/alpha strike wipe and drags on forever bc/ they are no-damage/earthgore wearing tanks

Bonus if there is an objective or terrain that influences strategy, but that's a bonus.

Now, we all play this game for different reasons. I and most of the people who dislike faction locks prioritize what I just listed over the 10 wall repair kits and the decon fodder rings I'll get for winning a campaign that I'll forget about in two weeks. But to each, their own. Without a faction lock, we no longer have the ability to log into our characters to help make #1 and #2 a reality. Faction lock advocates claim that people like me "bandwagon" or hop onto the alliance that's winning for AP boosts and distort #1 and #2. A couple things:

1. That assertion is just anecdotal. I have 100 friends on my list and in 5 years, I have never had any PvPer I know say or ask me "Hey, let's hop onto our EPs because they are rolling the map and we can get AP!". Their anecdotal evidence is not somehow more valid than mine. Nobody has investigated just how much this happens, who is doing it, and what % of the multi-faction players actually do this. And here's something else to consider. Let's assume that some crappy DC guild does log onto EP to "flip the map". Cyrodiil is zero-sum, which means those 20 crappy DC players are now off and replaced by 20 better players. Meanwhile, EP now has 20 wasted slots filled by non-competitive crappy players. EP is worse off, not better.
2. What I have been asked to do in the past 5 years is to help Emperor someone on a under-populated or "buff" server. This stuff happens not because there isn;t a faction lock but because the server is underpopulated. And it's still going to happen because there are going to be underpopulated servers and since I have characters from all alliances, one of them will be able to help no matter what sort of faction lock restrictions are implemented.

Volsers

@Joy_Division I should give you and your 100 friends a golden star. My evidence lies in the people I had on my friends list who used to always play for the winning side which I did not like at all. It is true I don't know how many in the community does this, but at least I know enough to view it as a problem. Maybe my experience is not more valid than yours but in that case neither is your experience more valid than mine.

Joy_Division

Volsers wrote: »

@Joy_Division I should give you and your 100 friends a golden star. My evidence lies in the people I had on my friends list who used to always play for the winning side which I did not like at all. It is true I don't know how many in the community does this, but at least I know enough to view it as a problem. Maybe my experience is not more valid than yours but in that case neither is your experience more valid than mine.

Yeah, it's amazing how everyone I know always does one thing and everyone someone else always knows always does the other.

Riddle me this though. How do I make more AP dropping from my DC, then wait in a 100+ que to log onto my EP?

DisgracefulMind

Joy_Division wrote: »

[*] What I have been asked to do in the past 5 years is to help Emperor someone on a under-populated or "buff" server. This stuff happens not because there isn;t a faction lock but because the server is underpopulated. And it's still going to happen because there are going to be underpopulated servers and since I have characters from all alliances, one of them will be able to help no matter what sort of faction lock restrictions are implemented.
[/list]

What's funny is the "ap flipping" that everyone keeps going on about happens in these underpopulated servers, particularly "overnight". Punishing the people who play the 30-day and look for actual PvP, but letting the actual problem slip by is a bit mind-boggling.

Enkil

Takeaway from most of this discussion, and really many of the numerous faction lock discussions that have started is that new 7-day locked campaign should be added, but most are against locking of 30-day Vivec.

Thing is most players advocating for faction lock agree on this. We just want ONE (preferably 7-day) locked campaign.

Maybe devs think locking most will spread the PvP population? They rarely even talk to the community anymore tho so who tf knows....

It’s the devs that want to lock vivec and all the rest. Why? They prob have their reason but unfortunately their communication efforts are almost nonexistent anymore. I’m personally very grateful that the devs have listened to and responded to calls for factions locks. But, please also take steps to implement it in a smart, thoughtful and well-intentioned way. (Current plans are NOT coming across as such). FFA campaigns have been the norm for years now, so let’s please not leave all hose players out in the cold please.

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom Will y’all please get some interactive conversation started here?? Aren’t y’all tasked with exactly this type thing????