More Alliance Ranks & greater rewards for Alliance War Veterans!

Katinas

No. PVP with another character if after reaching rank 50 you feel you are no longer being rewarded.

Bam_Bam

Too many Grand Overlord wall and door repairers....

EliteWarrior

I love the idea of new AvA ranks, the titles you suggested were decent too imo.
However I think the buffs are a terrible idea. There are players in Cyrodiil today who have been playing since 2014, and have mastered PvP, they can take down groups of players with ease (I've seen you @Universe you damn Sorc). Giving the vets even more power, especially something as large as 50% stats is insane. Those players will be rocking 40k+ health for a light armour build, and some 50k+ resource pools, that's just too op I think.
Although, the idea of the final rank having a rank logo of the Alliance is an awesome idea

Universe

AndyMac wrote: »

Agree with increasing ranks - but no to the buffs.

There’s actually quite a few GO’s nowadays in Vivec NA PC and the numbers are increasing - it would be good for them to have something to aim for rather than just be capped.

Maybe a range of cool titles to select from as you get past GO. Or maybe the ability to come up with your own. That could be hilarious imo.

Edit: spelling

Thanks for your feedback
Yes, the buff is optional since it might cause problems...
An interesting idea
Though it may be potentially open to abuse since players may come up with titles that violate the ToS.

Vapirko wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Vapirko wrote: »

Everything was fine up to the buffs. Power creep is already a huge issue.

Fine
Even though I disagree I will edit my post to make it optional.

You’re suggesting 50% ult gen buff that’s a comical amount. Even 10% is a lot. Sure you can lower it to 2% but at this point in the games life they’re actively looking at ways to reduce power creep including an entire redesign of CP. So including new ways for people to get stronger is going to be a no go, especially when it comes to percentages which they are also getting rid of.

Thanks
Well, the buff can be even minimal, like 1% or just some bonuses to Rewards of the Worthy mail & end of campaign rewards.
I don't think that a minimal stats buff will have such large effect on PVP gameplay, especially when it group vs group or in outnumbered situation.
The buff won't save the player in a tough 1vX.
As I stated earlier, the buff is optional.

ku5h wrote: »

Support the idea of more ranks, since im 3mill shy of GO and would like to feel some progression from that point. Instead of adding raw power, I would suggest something like double rewards from turning in quests, or 2X End of campaign rewards.
Also pls something besides furnishing, for me it's useless. Add a skin or costume, or both for Legendary Hero rank. It would be super exclusive.

Thanks for sharing your opinion
This could be a very nice addition to my post in regard to rewards.
I initially didn't want the rewards to be too high but if there will be no buff, it can certainly be included.


@ErMurazor Thank you for the feedback!
The rewards I have posted are just a template that the developers can build on, so yes a skin and other rewards can be added.

@starkerealm Thanks
The buff is optional and can be replaced to just buff the rewards of the worthy mail and end of campaign rewards etc.
The idea of exclusive housing for higher ranked players is very nice
The Archduke rank I suggested can have the 30 on 30 meters furnishing being changed to an actual exclusive arena!
Same for the Legendary Hero Inner Keep furnishing.

Waseem wrote: »

LOL rank 50 not enough? you think its easy?

Thanks for your comment
I never said it's easy.
Though since the game will soon be 5 years old and many are rank 50 for years, there ought to be more alliance ranks and rewards to keep the veteran players(such as myself) interested in fighting the alliance war.
It is always great to play just for fun, but a new grind can really make veteran players enjoy more PVP.

Rake wrote: »

I would like above AvA rank 50 progression.
I would also like some changes and perks tied to AvA ranks.
Each AvA rank should buff siege weapon damage by 1%
Each AvA rank above AvA 50 should give +250 of all max stats
Each AvA rank above AvA 40 should give 1% resource regen

Make fights against high AvA ranks more challenging and boost rewards for killing high ranked players a bit.
Killing AvA 30+ should net 100 more alliance points per rank
Killing AvA 50+ should give 5 minutes buff of +5% damage dealt to enemies

These are just suggestions, but I am sure many players would like to see something similar.
Make PvP more interesting, make it spicy outside using one-hit-artefact-weapons.

Thanks for sharing your ideas!
I'm not sure that buffing all alliance players will be a good idea, since it may prove too OP.
My optional buff was that only selected few will have some increased power.
I'm all for better rewards for killing other players while in cyrodiil and maybe temporarily buff if killing higher ranked players.
The bonuses per ranks are reasonable.

SaintSubwayy wrote: »

Plain and Simple....oh hell Naw!

the Grind to lvl 50 is already painstacking af....its over more than a year with 200k AP / day (which already is quite much)...adding even more Ranks for even more grind is just plain out stupid sry.

you seriously ask for the hardest Grind this game woud have ever seen...NO tyvm.

You cannot compare the Grind for Alliance Ranks with stuff like Undaunted passives, since you can get Undaunted Rank up to 9 within 1 Day of playing, if you know how and are good enough for it....
Alliance Ranks have absoluutly nothing to do with skill (granted, many high rank pvpers are very skilled)... but its a pure Grind...and with enough time spent even a noob will get Grand Overlord some day, by just running arround in a zerg and healing ppl.
Same is true for undaunted, you can get rank 10 by doin normal dailies jeah, but the Grind is somewhat balanced. vet HM nodeath speedruns all in one can boost you up way more than normal dailies can...but thats depending on skill.

in Cyro, while you can get quite a lot more AP when you're good its not really compareable to undaunted, since the Pool you have to fill up is way bigger, and the drops you can fill it are smaller.

so No to more Alliance Ranks, especially if they grant more combatstats....or they can add the same for PVE...If I have Griphonheart I deal 3% more DMG...imagine how this will spiral out of controll if someone has all achievement which grants Combat stats...he'll be OP af in PVP and in PVE.....and therefore force ppl to once again play content they dont wana play, to stay relevant in their prffered content.

Thank you for the input

@Alucardo The buff is optional.
Though if it would be implemented, it will be hard to get(so not many will have it).

@visionality Thanks for your feedback!
The buff is optional.
The idea of an extra grind is very appealing, at least to me
I always like challenges.
So I will have to spend 2-3 or more years in getting there, not a big deal but rather just a nice bonus while playing

@Katinas Thank you
Well, the rewards are just extra.
Any veteran player can just play for fun until he reaches the higher ranks.
Also, the current ranks(up to 50) can be improved so they may be nicer to earn.

@Bam_Bam There will always be ap farmers, regardless of how many ranks there are and what are the rewards.

EliteWarrior wrote: »

I love the idea of new AvA ranks, the titles you suggested were decent too imo.
However I think the buffs are a terrible idea. There are players in Cyrodiil today who have been playing since 2014, and have mastered PvP, they can take down groups of players with ease (I've seen you @Universe you damn Sorc). Giving the vets even more power, especially something as large as 50% stats is insane. Those players will be rocking 40k+ health for a light armour build, and some 50k+ resource pools, that's just too op I think.
Although, the idea of the final rank having a rank logo of the Alliance is an awesome idea

Thank you for your feedback!
The buff is optional and can be replaced to just a boost to the rewards of the worthy mail & end of campaign rewards etc.
I might have encountered you on PC EU Vivec LOL, GF xD
Though as much it can be exciting to 1vX, there is a limit.
I won't defeat 2/3 good/very good players no matter how much I will try, maybe even with the suggested buff.
ZOS nerfed the 1vX and buffed zerging, so it is a lot harder now.

Universe

In addition to my post I wanted to add an idea for better rewards for existing top rank Grand Overlord:
Optional: *Your chance to obtain an Arena Gladiator's Proof from a second quest within 20 hours is doubled.
*Grand Hat of Authority - The hat will have the alliance symbol in all sides with a description: "Awarded to Esteemed Generals of Aldmeri Dominion/ Ebonheart Pact/Daggerfall Covenant".
*In addition to normal end of campaign rewards, if you participated in the alliance war(earned any alliance points) you shall receive 1 random gold jewelry in the end of the campaign.

ghastley

You don't need extra ranks. Have the existing ones degrade over time, if you're not using them. That will keep people playing just as well.

Iki

How about no. Grand overlord-grind is already time-consuming and frustrating enough for vast majority of players. Remember that not everybody wants to play one same character for a long time, we alt-o-holics also exist who enjoy playing multiple characters.
And you not only wanted to add more alliance-ranks but also attach more nice things to them, that only relatively small portion of playerbase would ever have access to... big fat NO to that. Even more I disagree with adding any stat-increases and combat-bonuses to those ranks.
However, I can think of things they could add to give pvp`ers more achievements to chase.
What do you think about these achievement ideas:
- Kill 100 enemy players near your own scroll-temple to get title of "Scroll-guardian"
- Complete 100 scouting missions to get title of "Scout"
- Kill 1000 enemy players near your home-keep to get title of "Honor-guard"
- Deal x amount of damage to enemy structures with siege weapons to gain title of "Siege-engineer"
Something like that. New titles related to pvp and everyone would have access to them within not too long time. Could attach some dyes/costumes/housing things to those if they wanted.

Universe

ghastley wrote: »

You don't need extra ranks. Have the existing ones degrade over time, if you're not using them. That will keep people playing just as well.

Thanks for your feedback
I disagree, Players have worked very hard to earn grand overlord, making it degrade over time will be unfair.

Iki wrote: »

How about no. Grand overlord-grind is already time-consuming and frustrating enough for vast majority of players. Remember that not everybody wants to play one same character for a long time, we alt-o-holics also exist who enjoy playing multiple characters.
And you not only wanted to add more alliance-ranks but also attach more nice things to them, that only relatively small portion of playerbase would ever have access to... big fat NO to that. Even more I disagree with adding any stat-increases and combat-bonuses to those ranks.
However, I can think of things they could add to give pvp`ers more achievements to chase.
What do you think about these achievement ideas:
- Kill 100 enemy players near your own scroll-temple to get title of "Scroll-guardian"
- Complete 100 scouting missions to get title of "Scout"
- Kill 1000 enemy players near your home-keep to get title of "Honor-guard"
- Deal x amount of damage to enemy structures with siege weapons to gain title of "Siege-engineer"
Something like that. New titles related to pvp and everyone would have access to them within not too long time. Could attach some dyes/costumes/housing things to those if they wanted.

Thank you for your feedback!
I believe the new ranks will best serve Alliance War veterans who aspire to even greater heights, be it on one character or multiple characters.
Same as PVE trials/arenas, for example not everyone can obtain "Bringer of Light" or "The Flawless Conqueror" titles on all characters.
I'm not that good with my magicka Warden, does it mean that no one should get the rank because I just stepped into Cyrodiil ?
No. Players should complete the achievements they can and not hope to complete 100% on all of their characters.
It is also unrealistic since it will take too much time to complete AR 50 on all 15 characters...
Obviously, very small percentage of the player base completed almost everything on all chars & most/all classes, but this minority is so small, that's insignificant.
Though I agree with your other achievements suggestions as a nice addition to my original idea.

Sandman929

Once you've seen a GO with less than 10k alliance war kills, you start to think the whole AvA ranking needs an overhaul, not necessarily more ranks.

Universe

Sandman929 wrote: »

Once you've seen a GO with less than 10k alliance war kills, you start to think the whole AvA ranking needs an overhaul, not necessarily more ranks.

I'm not against changing some of the ways AP is gained.
For many it is a lot easier to run in zergs, so maybe ZOS could further reduce the overall AP gained from kills when the enemy is seriously outnumbered in an area(not just split the ap based on damage/healing), it should be quite to easy to program.
Also, the AP gained should reflect good strategy, i.e if a player killed players while defending a keep/scroll he should be rewarded with more AP rather than someone who just kill players near a resource(farming).
So yes, while changing some of the ways AP is gained, new ranks can be added(though changing how's AP is gained doesn't have to be mandatory).
Though it's all other topic, my discussion is about adding more ranks & greater rewards for Veteran Alliance War players

disintegr8

Sandman929 wrote: »

Once you've seen a GO with less than 10k alliance war kills, you start to think the whole AvA ranking needs an overhaul, not necessarily more ranks.

If I ever get to GO (highest alliance rank is currently 25), it will probably be with less than 10k kills. Most of my AP comes from taking and defending keeps and resources using siege rather than focusing on killing individual players. And yes, I do stay to repair the doors and walls after a battle, instead of running off to the next big AP collection point.

GO is a high enough, hard to reach goal already and I agree with other posters that if you want further challenge, start another character. I have a few characters ranked in the 20's but with 15 max level characters, my AP is fairly well spread out.

Considering level 24 or 25 is only 10% of the way to GO, if I put all of their earned AP together, it still probably wouldn't get me there..

Universe

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Once you've seen a GO with less than 10k alliance war kills, you start to think the whole AvA ranking needs an overhaul, not necessarily more ranks.

If I ever get to GO (highest alliance rank is currently 25), it will probably be with less than 10k kills. Most of my AP comes from taking and defending keeps and resources using siege rather than focusing on killing individual players. And yes, I do stay to repair the doors and walls after a battle, instead of running off to the next big AP collection point.

GO is a high enough, hard to reach goal already and I agree with other posters that if you want further challenge, start another character. I have a few characters ranked in the 20's but with 15 max level characters, my AP is fairly well spread out.

Considering level 24 or 25 is only 10% of the way to GO, if I put all of their earned AP together, it still probably wouldn't get me there..

Thanks for your input
Well, It was high, years ago
There should be new ranks so progression could continue.
For the players who are just starting or are below AR 50 it shouldn't matter, since they will earn the rewards if/when they get there, be it AR 50 or AR 60.

Sandman929

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Once you've seen a GO with less than 10k alliance war kills, you start to think the whole AvA ranking needs an overhaul, not necessarily more ranks.

If I ever get to GO (highest alliance rank is currently 25), it will probably be with less than 10k kills. Most of my AP comes from taking and defending keeps and resources using siege rather than focusing on killing individual players. And yes, I do stay to repair the doors and walls after a battle, instead of running off to the next big AP collection point.

GO is a high enough, hard to reach goal already and I agree with other posters that if you want further challenge, start another character. I have a few characters ranked in the 20's but with 15 max level characters, my AP is fairly well spread out.

Considering level 24 or 25 is only 10% of the way to GO, if I put all of their earned AP together, it still probably wouldn't get me there..

This is one of the reasons I think that Alliance War achievements definitely need to be more diverse than this simple ranking system based solely on AP gained. GO doesn't really mean anything other than "has played for a long time" and "gained a lot of AP on this particular toon". ZOS certainly has the data, if not the will, to make a broad array of Alliance War titles for healers, tanks, objective based players taking keeps/resources, etc.

Universe

Sandman929 wrote: »

disintegr8 wrote: »

Sandman929 wrote: »

Once you've seen a GO with less than 10k alliance war kills, you start to think the whole AvA ranking needs an overhaul, not necessarily more ranks.

If I ever get to GO (highest alliance rank is currently 25), it will probably be with less than 10k kills. Most of my AP comes from taking and defending keeps and resources using siege rather than focusing on killing individual players. And yes, I do stay to repair the doors and walls after a battle, instead of running off to the next big AP collection point.

GO is a high enough, hard to reach goal already and I agree with other posters that if you want further challenge, start another character. I have a few characters ranked in the 20's but with 15 max level characters, my AP is fairly well spread out.

Considering level 24 or 25 is only 10% of the way to GO, if I put all of their earned AP together, it still probably wouldn't get me there..

This is one of the reasons I think that Alliance War achievements definitely need to be more diverse than this simple ranking system based solely on AP gained. GO doesn't really mean anything other than "has played for a long time" and "gained a lot of AP on this particular toon". ZOS certainly has the data, if not the will, to make a broad array of Alliance War titles for healers, tanks, objective based players taking keeps/resources, etc.

I agree that the current ranking system is far from perfect.
Though I don't imagine ZOS ever changing it completely so I suggest to build on what we already have.

While Grand Overlord doesn't really prove good individual combat skill, it does reflect on overall time played and possible experience from PVP.
It is quite common that high Alliance rank players perform better in AVA in Cyrodiil than players who have just started or are lower rank(unless the lower ranked player already has a main with high alliance rank).
Obviously, it doesn't prove good skill in 1v1 or 1vX(though unless the AR 50 player always run in his zerg for years, he should have some normal skill in 1v1 and some can be good in both 1v1 and 1vX).

So alliance rank can somewhat give an estimate of the player's overall experience/knowledge of Cyrodiil AVA mechanics & strategy and possibly better tactical skill in group/s vs group/s oriented combat.
It will be nice if ZOS will add more to the ranking system while adding more alliance ranks.

Enkil

We fought hard to get the former emp buffs removed. Please no buffs. More rewards are fine, maybe more ranks, but def nothing that affects combat please.

ATomiX96

Universe wrote: »

I'm speaking of a final rank which have bonuses.
PVE players have their undaunted, I want the same in PVP(though it will take much more effort to obtain, 165M alliance points - so it will be balanced).

Sounds like a terrible idea, also comparing something that takes 1 week to grind to something that takes like a year to get if you exclusively pvdoor is just irrational.
And if you check campaign leaderboards, the top 10 are always the same idiotic pvdoorers which run in their 24 man " lfg groups" all day.
So those kind of people would be the first to reach the new "highest rank" and get buffs so they can fight the keep npcs even harder.

Stop encouraging PvDoor and Zerging in general, thanks.

You want PvP passives?
What about Assault/Support Passives?
You can hit Assault/Support 10 pretty much as fast as you would hit undaunted 9.
So there you go, PvP Passives at least as impactful as Undaunted.

Universe

Enkil wrote: »

We fought hard to get the former emp buffs removed. Please no buffs. More rewards are fine, maybe more ranks, but def nothing that affects combat please.

Thanks for the feedback
Yes, I stated that the buff to combat is optional.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I'm speaking of a final rank which have bonuses.
PVE players have their undaunted, I want the same in PVP(though it will take much more effort to obtain, 165M alliance points - so it will be balanced).

Sounds like a terrible idea, also comparing something that takes 1 week to grind to something that takes like a year to get if you exclusively pvdoor is just irrational.
And if you check campaign leaderboards, the top 10 are always the same idiotic pvdoorers which run in their 24 man " lfg groups" all day.
So those kind of people would be the first to reach the new "highest rank" and get buffs so they can fight the keep npcs even harder.

Stop encouraging PvDoor and Zerging in general, thanks.

You want PvP passives?
What about Assault/Support Passives?
You can hit Assault/Support 10 pretty much as fast as you would hit undaunted 9.
So there you go, PvP Passives at least as impactful as Undaunted.

Thank you for sharing your opinion
That's a narrow way to look at it.
Most* Alliance players(including players in the campaign leaderboard top 100) are not what you describe.
The minority who both Zerging to farm alliance points and do PVDoor will always exist, regardless of what I propose here.
Btw, playing the campaign while not zerg farming still provide an healthy amount of AP per hour.
While I solo or in small group or accompany medium sized group I still earn very good AP per hour.

IxSTALKERxI

Even with those buffs the GO's will probably still get 1vX'd.

idk

First off I am pretty sure at least one of those titles are already in game. That one title eliminates two of the titles at that. iirc, Duke is tied to home ownership.

Second, there really is not a reason to add more ranks what exists other than OP wants it. It is what it is. Maybe Zos should have come up with a different system for BGs instead of tying the two together, but that ship sailed.

So, my vote is no.

Universe

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Even with those buffs the GO's will probably still get 1vX'd.

Thanks for the input
LOL

idk wrote: »

First off I am pretty sure at least one of those titles are already in game. That one title eliminates two of the titles at that. iirc, Duke is tied to home ownership.

Second, there really is not a reason to add more ranks what exists other than OP wants it. It is what it is. Maybe Zos should have come up with a different system for BGs instead of tying the two together, but that ship sailed.

So, my vote is no.

Thanks for the feedback!
The title/s you're referring to is "Lord" or "Count"(Or both).
I don't think it will be an issue if there will be a PVP title named "Duke" and a housing title named "Lord"/"Count" at the same time.
A "Duke" is above "Count" and "Lord" is very general form of apply to a noble, so it doesn't impact other titles.
Though if "Duke" will prove to be problematic for the the developers, it could be changed to "High General".
Also, "Archduke" could be changed to "Marshal" or to "Field Marshal".
There are many different ways it could be implemented.

The two main reasons to add more ranks & titles:
A. It can provide a new sense of PVP progression, especially for veteran players.
B. Add new rewards for existing ranks and new ranks - this could motivate veteran players & newer players to participate more in Cyrodiil PVP even after reaching Grand Overlord.

I will add the two reasons to my OP post so it will be clearer.

idk

Universe wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Even with those buffs the GO's will probably still get 1vX'd.

Thanks for the input
LOL

idk wrote: »

First off I am pretty sure at least one of those titles are already in game. That one title eliminates two of the titles at that. iirc, Duke is tied to home ownership.

Second, there really is not a reason to add more ranks what exists other than OP wants it. It is what it is. Maybe Zos should have come up with a different system for BGs instead of tying the two together, but that ship sailed.

So, my vote is no.

Thanks for the feedback!
The title/s you're referring to is "Lord" or "Count"(Or both).
I don't think it will be an issue if there will be a PVP title named "Duke" and a housing title named "Lord"/"Count" at the same time.
A "Duke" is above "Count" and "Lord" is very general form of apply to a noble, so it doesn't impact other titles.
Though if "Duke" will prove to be problematic for the the developers, it could be changed to "High General".
Also, "Archduke" could be changed to "Marshal" or to "Field Marshal".
There are many different ways it could be implemented.

The two main reasons to add more ranks & titles:
A. It can provide a new sense of PVP progression, especially for veteran players.
B. Add new rewards for existing ranks and new ranks - this could motivate veteran players & newer players to participate more in Cyrodiil PVP even after reaching Grand Overlord.

I will add the two reasons to my OP post so it will be clearer.

I think it is clear why you want to add more ranks and such but what you state are reasons are merely statements of what you want added. You have failed to provide one reason to justify the changes.

Simply put, adding more ranks for the heck of it is pointless. It does nothing to make Cyrodiill (or BGs) more interesting. PvP has been bleeding profusely for years now. It is a shell of it's former self. Your idea does absolutely nothing to change it because people do not really PvP for titles. That is just a byproduct.

At best you are putting lipstick on a pig and nothing more, but even that is not your reason. Your reason is merely because you want it.

Universe

idk wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

Even with those buffs the GO's will probably still get 1vX'd.

Thanks for the input
LOL

idk wrote: »

First off I am pretty sure at least one of those titles are already in game. That one title eliminates two of the titles at that. iirc, Duke is tied to home ownership.

Second, there really is not a reason to add more ranks what exists other than OP wants it. It is what it is. Maybe Zos should have come up with a different system for BGs instead of tying the two together, but that ship sailed.

So, my vote is no.

Thanks for the feedback!
The title/s you're referring to is "Lord" or "Count"(Or both).
I don't think it will be an issue if there will be a PVP title named "Duke" and a housing title named "Lord"/"Count" at the same time.
A "Duke" is above "Count" and "Lord" is very general form of apply to a noble, so it doesn't impact other titles.
Though if "Duke" will prove to be problematic for the the developers, it could be changed to "High General".
Also, "Archduke" could be changed to "Marshal" or to "Field Marshal".
There are many different ways it could be implemented.

The two main reasons to add more ranks & titles:
A. It can provide a new sense of PVP progression, especially for veteran players.
B. Add new rewards for existing ranks and new ranks - this could motivate veteran players & newer players to participate more in Cyrodiil PVP even after reaching Grand Overlord.

I will add the two reasons to my OP post so it will be clearer.

I think it is clear why you want to add more ranks and such but what you state are reasons are merely statements of what you want added. You have failed to provide one reason to justify the changes.

Simply put, adding more ranks for the heck of it is pointless. It does nothing to make Cyrodiill (or BGs) more interesting. PvP has been bleeding profusely for years now. It is a shell of it's former self. Your idea does absolutely nothing to change it because people do not really PvP for titles. That is just a byproduct.

At best you are putting lipstick on a pig and nothing more, but even that is not your reason. Your reason is merely because you want it.

Thanks for sharing your opinion
The reasons I provided are valid.
Many other players want it too.
If I was the only one who wanted it, I wouldn't have suggested it in the first place.
I agree there are key aspects of PVP that should be improved, server performance and overall gameplay in PVP should be improved, but it is separated from the ranks/titles/rewards I suggest in this discussion.

ChefZero

PvP rewarding system itself is broken. AvA rank is more about grinding and not playing good. You should get rewards by playing good, playing the map and sportsmanship attitude.

AP in the current state should be a common currency for buying common stuff. For a good and representative reward/ladder system we need a 2nd scoring mechanic. Give PvP guilds something to be meaningful and not just an extended buddy list.

Universe

ChefZero wrote: »

PvP rewarding system itself is broken. AvA rank is more about grinding and not playing good. You should get rewards by playing good, playing the map and sportsmanship attitude.

AP in the current state should be a common currency for buying common stuff. For a good and representative reward/ladder system we need a 2nd scoring mechanic. Give PvP guilds something to be meaningful and not just an extended buddy list.

Thank you for the feedback
I wouldn't mind if ZOS will adjust the AP gain to better reflect skill.
Though no scoring system will be immune from abuse.
I do consider PvP raiding through guilds a bit too powerful and many already expressed their opinion that pvp guilds who wish to raid need their own campaigns, i.e competitive organized PVP, CP enabled and no CP.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

We fought hard to get the former emp buffs removed. Please no buffs. More rewards are fine, maybe more ranks, but def nothing that affects combat please.

Thanks for the feedback
Yes, I stated that the buff to combat is optional.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I'm speaking of a final rank which have bonuses.
PVE players have their undaunted, I want the same in PVP(though it will take much more effort to obtain, 165M alliance points - so it will be balanced).

Sounds like a terrible idea, also comparing something that takes 1 week to grind to something that takes like a year to get if you exclusively pvdoor is just irrational.
And if you check campaign leaderboards, the top 10 are always the same idiotic pvdoorers which run in their 24 man " lfg groups" all day.
So those kind of people would be the first to reach the new "highest rank" and get buffs so they can fight the keep npcs even harder.

Stop encouraging PvDoor and Zerging in general, thanks.

You want PvP passives?
What about Assault/Support Passives?
You can hit Assault/Support 10 pretty much as fast as you would hit undaunted 9.
So there you go, PvP Passives at least as impactful as Undaunted.

Thank you for sharing your opinion
That's a narrow way to look at it.
Most* Alliance players(including players in the campaign leaderboard top 100) are not what you describe.
The minority who both Zerging to farm alliance points and do PVDoor will always exist, regardless of what I propose here.
Btw, playing the campaign while not zerg farming still provide an healthy amount of AP per hour.
While I solo or in small group or accompany medium sized group I still earn very good AP per hour.

[edited to remove naming and shaming]

Thanks for the input!
Yes, players who zerg a lot do appear on the leaderboard.
Though many players are mistaken for being zergers and the sample list you have provided is not a real indicator of the general PVP population.
There are players who are boosted by their guilds to gain higher than normal AP gain per hour.
Though no scoring system will be immune from abuse.

starkerealm

Universe wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

PvP rewarding system itself is broken. AvA rank is more about grinding and not playing good. You should get rewards by playing good, playing the map and sportsmanship attitude.

AP in the current state should be a common currency for buying common stuff. For a good and representative reward/ladder system we need a 2nd scoring mechanic. Give PvP guilds something to be meaningful and not just an extended buddy list.

Thank you for the feedback
I wouldn't mind if ZOS will adjust the AP gain to better reflect skill.
Though no scoring system will be immune from abuse.
I do consider PvP raiding through guilds a bit too powerful and many already expressed their opinion that pvp guilds who wish to raid need their own campaigns, i.e competitive organized PVP, CP enabled and no CP.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

We fought hard to get the former emp buffs removed. Please no buffs. More rewards are fine, maybe more ranks, but def nothing that affects combat please.

Thanks for the feedback
Yes, I stated that the buff to combat is optional.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I'm speaking of a final rank which have bonuses.
PVE players have their undaunted, I want the same in PVP(though it will take much more effort to obtain, 165M alliance points - so it will be balanced).

Sounds like a terrible idea, also comparing something that takes 1 week to grind to something that takes like a year to get if you exclusively pvdoor is just irrational.
And if you check campaign leaderboards, the top 10 are always the same idiotic pvdoorers which run in their 24 man " lfg groups" all day.
So those kind of people would be the first to reach the new "highest rank" and get buffs so they can fight the keep npcs even harder.

Stop encouraging PvDoor and Zerging in general, thanks.

You want PvP passives?
What about Assault/Support Passives?
You can hit Assault/Support 10 pretty much as fast as you would hit undaunted 9.
So there you go, PvP Passives at least as impactful as Undaunted.

Thank you for sharing your opinion
That's a narrow way to look at it.
Most* Alliance players(including players in the campaign leaderboard top 100) are not what you describe.
The minority who both Zerging to farm alliance points and do PVDoor will always exist, regardless of what I propose here.
Btw, playing the campaign while not zerg farming still provide an healthy amount of AP per hour.
While I solo or in small group or accompany medium sized group I still earn very good AP per hour.

lets just take a look at the current top10 from vivec EU



try again.

Thanks for the input!
Yes, players who zerg a lot do appear on the leaderboard.
Though many players are mistaken for being zergers and the sample list you have provided is not a real indicator of the general PVP population.
There are players who are boosted by their guilds to gain higher than normal AP gain per hour.
Though no scoring system will be immune from abuse.

Without looking at the list to check, he's not wrong. The current system does reward players for pursuing a quantity over quality approach to PvP. There may be ways to address that, but, simply adding ranks on the upper edge doesn't.

Universe

starkerealm wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

ChefZero wrote: »

PvP rewarding system itself is broken. AvA rank is more about grinding and not playing good. You should get rewards by playing good, playing the map and sportsmanship attitude.

AP in the current state should be a common currency for buying common stuff. For a good and representative reward/ladder system we need a 2nd scoring mechanic. Give PvP guilds something to be meaningful and not just an extended buddy list.

Thank you for the feedback
I wouldn't mind if ZOS will adjust the AP gain to better reflect skill.
Though no scoring system will be immune from abuse.
I do consider PvP raiding through guilds a bit too powerful and many already expressed their opinion that pvp guilds who wish to raid need their own campaigns, i.e competitive organized PVP, CP enabled and no CP.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

Enkil wrote: »

We fought hard to get the former emp buffs removed. Please no buffs. More rewards are fine, maybe more ranks, but def nothing that affects combat please.

Thanks for the feedback
Yes, I stated that the buff to combat is optional.

ATomiX96 wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

I'm speaking of a final rank which have bonuses.
PVE players have their undaunted, I want the same in PVP(though it will take much more effort to obtain, 165M alliance points - so it will be balanced).

Sounds like a terrible idea, also comparing something that takes 1 week to grind to something that takes like a year to get if you exclusively pvdoor is just irrational.
And if you check campaign leaderboards, the top 10 are always the same idiotic pvdoorers which run in their 24 man " lfg groups" all day.
So those kind of people would be the first to reach the new "highest rank" and get buffs so they can fight the keep npcs even harder.

Stop encouraging PvDoor and Zerging in general, thanks.

You want PvP passives?
What about Assault/Support Passives?
You can hit Assault/Support 10 pretty much as fast as you would hit undaunted 9.
So there you go, PvP Passives at least as impactful as Undaunted.

Thank you for sharing your opinion
That's a narrow way to look at it.
Most* Alliance players(including players in the campaign leaderboard top 100) are not what you describe.
The minority who both Zerging to farm alliance points and do PVDoor will always exist, regardless of what I propose here.
Btw, playing the campaign while not zerg farming still provide an healthy amount of AP per hour.
While I solo or in small group or accompany medium sized group I still earn very good AP per hour.

lets just take a look at the current top10 from vivec EU



try again.

Thanks for the input!
Yes, players who zerg a lot do appear on the leaderboard.
Though many players are mistaken for being zergers and the sample list you have provided is not a real indicator of the general PVP population.
There are players who are boosted by their guilds to gain higher than normal AP gain per hour.
Though no scoring system will be immune from abuse.

Without looking at the list to check, he's not wrong. The current system does reward players for pursuing a quantity over quality approach to PvP. There may be ways to address that, but, simply adding ranks on the upper edge doesn't.

Thanks for the feedback
As I posted earlier, I agree that the current ranking system is far from perfect.
The ranks I suggested can be added as a part of an overhaul to the Alliance War - ways that AP is gained.
The ranks will be like elite ranks after an overhaul for the Alliance War occurred.
So anyone who may attempt to earn any of the new ranks will have to work harder.

starkerealm

Universe wrote: »

The ranks I suggested can be added as a part of an overhaul to the Alliance War - ways that AP is gained.

Actually, skip the new ranks for a second.

The problem with the Alliance War system right now is, you keep ranking up. You'll eventually end up with zergs full of Grand Overlords. Which doesn't make much sense.

If you wanted to overhaul this to avoid this, you'd need to rework ranks so they actually functioned like ranks. With different ranks earning AP for different things, and in different quantities. Probably also with rank specific buffs. Encouraging players to pick roles and stick with them in Cyrodiil, rather than just mindless Zerging.

Universe

starkerealm wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

The ranks I suggested can be added as a part of an overhaul to the Alliance War - ways that AP is gained.

Actually, skip the new ranks for a second.

The problem with the Alliance War system right now is, you keep ranking up. You'll eventually end up with zergs full of Grand Overlords. Which doesn't make much sense.

If you wanted to overhaul this to avoid this, you'd need to rework ranks so they actually functioned like ranks. With different ranks earning AP for different things, and in different quantities. Probably also with rank specific buffs. Encouraging players to pick roles and stick with them in Cyrodiil, rather than just mindless Zerging.

Thank you for the input!
Yes, roles can be a good addition for the new ranks, but the ranks can be fine without too many issues.
Well unless there is a dedicated guild raid of veteran alliance players who played for a long time and mysteriously all are AR50 or other bizarre scenario, not all the players in one group will ever be Grand Overlords at the same time.
Same with Legendary Hero, I don't think we will ever see 24 men group and each of them earned 165M AP/120M AP(if buff not implemented).
I still see rarity in different types of groups.

starkerealm

Universe wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

The ranks I suggested can be added as a part of an overhaul to the Alliance War - ways that AP is gained.

Actually, skip the new ranks for a second.

The problem with the Alliance War system right now is, you keep ranking up. You'll eventually end up with zergs full of Grand Overlords. Which doesn't make much sense.

If you wanted to overhaul this to avoid this, you'd need to rework ranks so they actually functioned like ranks. With different ranks earning AP for different things, and in different quantities. Probably also with rank specific buffs. Encouraging players to pick roles and stick with them in Cyrodiil, rather than just mindless Zerging.

Thank you for the input!
Yes, roles can be a good addition for the new ranks, but the ranks can be fine without too many issues.
Well unless there is a dedicated guild raid of veteran alliance players who played for a long time and mysteriously all are AR50 or other bizarre scenario, not all the players in one group will ever be Grand Overlords at the same time.
Same with Legendary Hero, I don't think we will ever see 24 men group and each of them earned 165M AP/120M AP(if buff not implemented).
I still see rarity in different types of groups.

I'm actually thinking, the rank characteristics for a GO should be that they don't earn AP from their own kills, but instead earn it from Keep captures and defenses. But, also get flagged on the map for all players. So, you'd know where a GO was going on the map, before they got there. If you wanted to zerg with them, you'd get (non-stacking) buffs, but at the same time, you knew, wherever they were going, there was going to be a party.

Universe

starkerealm wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Universe wrote: »

The ranks I suggested can be added as a part of an overhaul to the Alliance War - ways that AP is gained.

Actually, skip the new ranks for a second.

The problem with the Alliance War system right now is, you keep ranking up. You'll eventually end up with zergs full of Grand Overlords. Which doesn't make much sense.

If you wanted to overhaul this to avoid this, you'd need to rework ranks so they actually functioned like ranks. With different ranks earning AP for different things, and in different quantities. Probably also with rank specific buffs. Encouraging players to pick roles and stick with them in Cyrodiil, rather than just mindless Zerging.

Thank you for the input!
Yes, roles can be a good addition for the new ranks, but the ranks can be fine without too many issues.
Well unless there is a dedicated guild raid of veteran alliance players who played for a long time and mysteriously all are AR50 or other bizarre scenario, not all the players in one group will ever be Grand Overlords at the same time.
Same with Legendary Hero, I don't think we will ever see 24 men group and each of them earned 165M AP/120M AP(if buff not implemented).
I still see rarity in different types of groups.

I'm actually thinking, the rank characteristics for a GO should be that they don't earn AP from their own kills, but instead earn it from Keep captures and defenses. But, also get flagged on the map for all players. So, you'd know where a GO was going on the map, before they got there. If you wanted to zerg with them, you'd get (non-stacking) buffs, but at the same time, you knew, wherever they were going, there was going to be a party.

A truly interesting idea
Though it could be open to abuse and griefing.
What ZOS can take from this idea is the no AP from kills for Grand Overlord if they implement my new ranks, then the all claim "They got to Legendary Hero because they zerg" will disappear.

A way to implement the no AP:
So the grand overlord can toggle an option to play for "Legendary Hero" ON or OFF.
If the setting is ON, the AP from kills will be turned OFF and if the setting is OFF then the AP from kills will be turned ON but the Grand Overlord won't progress any further in alliance rank until he turns the setting ON again.
A bit weird way to deal with AP gained from zerging, but this may work xD.
In order to progress to Elite ranks over AR50, there will be need to do extra work!

Note: Not part of my OP post suggestions in the discussion, just a wild way to deal with zerging.
It can include healing too.
This is just optional.