Why are Bretons so short in stature

mairwen85

Breton, aka manmer (Aldmeri-Nedes) are the descendents of Direnni and Nedes, both tall and imposing races. So why are Bretons so small in comparison?

Claudman

Because everything in Tamriel is better than them, even Sloads.

mairwen85

Claudman wrote: »

Because everything in Tamriel is better than then, even Sloads.

I don't understand your answer, sorry. Let me rephrase my question with a bit more depth:

The progenitors of the human races Nord, Imperial, Breton are the Nedes -- an inherently hardy race of beings. When they arrived in Tamriel from Atmora, some settled in the Northern Harshlands (Skyrim) where their descendants eventually became Nords -- Nords bare the closest resemblance to the original Nedes in frame and appearance, their natural resistances an evolution of Nedic hardiness; others settled in the arid plains of Hammerfell (the Deathlands). The Nedes were driven out of their Hammerfell settlements by the invading Yokuda (who eventually became Redguards); the refugees spread across Tamriel, the survivors integrating into other civilisations as vassals or slaves -- the central tribes becoming Imperials -- those who escaped to High Rock were taken in by the Direnni and many Nedic females were taken as concubines by Dirennic nobles (as part of their 'permit' to stay the Direnni had a law that allowed them to have intercourse with any Nede they wished, and Nedes were compelled to comply). The offspring were the Aldmeri-Nedes, or Manmer -- they are described as being tall and slender with pale skin; so pale to be almost translucent and appearing as if charged by magicka, ears not as pointed as elves, but with a more pronounced tip than their Nedic for-bearers.

Centuries later, the Alessian Order ran campaigns against the Direnni which allowed their subversive population to rise up and rebel against them -- the Direnni withdrew, and the Aldmeri-Nedes took control over the area. High Rock was heavily contested by Human and Mer during this period, and splinter groups in the Aldmeri-Nedes appeared, the region was bastardised by many invading forces, but eventually came to exist as the Breton kingdom; dissidents and feudal divisions within the kingdom took up residence in the border region of the Reach, becoming Reachmen (a 'sub-race' of many heritages across all races, but primarily Breton).

Bretons have an innate affinity for magicka because of their elven ancestry, likewise their resistance to it is an evolution of Nedic hardiness.

If all this is considered, what happened to the unique physical features of the Bretons? They are slim and small in frame, but shorter than most other races (apart from Bosmer); they're basically just smaller Imperials (no pointy ears either) -- surely they should be tall like Altmer, and broad like Nords? I like that they're not, but I don't understand why that is?

One reason I could think of is that the original Direnni nobles conducted some form of (reverse-)eugenics, i.e. only 'kept' the ones born small or with desirable traits -- similar to how dogs are selectively bred -- to ensure subservience and to negate any possible future in which the Aldmeri-Nedes may attempt to claim their nobility from them...

Thoughts? [or theories, detail etc.]

RaddlemanNumber7

Lack of mead in their diet?

ApostateHobo

Not enough malk

mairwen85

Done some digging on the forum. Found this post:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/207172/height-scale-diagram

I stand corrected, it seems that Bretons, Dunmer and Imperials have the same height scale options from smallest to largest.

http://i.imgur.com/aQnGFfv.jpg

So -- Breton aren't any smaller than any other race(s) than Altmer, Nord and Orc.

Claudman

I meant "them", I was ****posting.

Bretons just look short because of their weird heads. Their heads are more "ball-y" then the other races of man like that of a potato or well...A ball, so it makes their overall body look a bit odd as well especially if you were to make them muscular and short. This all changes if you make their faces angular of course instead of soft or heroic. Bretons just look kinda weird in this game, but they've honestly looked weird in every game except Daggerfall, Arena or Battlespire.

TelvanniWizard

RaddlemanNumber7 wrote: »

Lack of mead in their diet?

The contrary. As a medieval-themed society they drink too much wine, mead and beer, even as children. Thus their growing process suffers from the very first steps.

LMar

Bretons are average height similar to imperials. Probably the loss of elven traits over time and breeding with other humans.

Some bits of the Breton history described are a bit wrong. We can expand if you like but you can check UESP.net for more detail

Minyassa

Might just be what was locally attractive for a while. Humans will naturally breed selectively just like any other animal depending on what's considered a desirable set of physical traits for their environment. Maybe the Breton womenfolk just prefer a sleeker chassis on prospective mates. xD

Sekt_Tiberlus

I know that dryskins, especially the altmer are inferior and weak, but bretons are truly mongrels. They took every worst trait from both elves and nedes. They are more miserable even than dunmer. Not surprised that their height is almost equal to bosmer.

Claudman

Sekt_Tiberlus wrote: »

I know that dryskins, especially the altmer are inferior and weak, but bretons are truly mongrels. They took every worst trait from both elves and nedes. They are more miserable even than dunmer. Not surprised that their height is almost equal to bosmer.

'Dryskins'?

Why are you RP'ing on a forum? :thinking:

MartiniDaniels

I wish they were smaller.

mairwen85

LMar wrote: »

Bretons are average height similar to imperials.

I found a forum post with height scale that shows the same.

LMar wrote: »

Probably the loss of elven traits over time and breeding with other humans.

Yes, I did consider that, inter-human coupling would naturally make human traits more dominant.

LMar wrote: »

Some bits of the Breton history described are a bit wrong. We can expand if you like but you can check UESP.net for more detail

I'd happily be told what I misunderstood -- this is basically what I interpret and put together from the various in game sources; I did check: https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Breton, which seems in broad lines to be in line with my (very much abbreviated) summary. If my understanding is off-piste in anyway, please do let me know.

MartiniDaniels wrote: »

I wish they were smaller.

I do too. Was just wondering why they weren't tall -- and by extension why they'd lost all elven traits. I guess the truth is that they really are the most mixed of the races (which makes them all the cooler in my opinion).

Deathlord92

Breton are my favourite race Breton are master race 🙂

JD2013

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Breton are my favourite race Breton are master race 🙂

Bretons certainly have a more civilised society than most of the races of Tamriel. Breton master race indeed! (Even if it is raining like 95 percent of the time in High Rock lol)

TheImperfect

As an intermingling of an enslaved race of nedes and the elves who bred with them I'd expect them to be pretty much as tall as any other people. Maybe if some are smaller it's because they didn't have as good a diet because they were of a lower social standing. If what I wrote was correct as I am relatively new to the lore.

LennoxPoodle

Are Needs Atmorans though? I thought that wasn't really clear. If they were tamrielic or came to tamriel long before Ysgramor, they might have been smaller than Atmorans, which would make sense (Bergmann's law). In that case the race most related to Nedes would be Imperials.