Tracking Daily Writ Reward Drop Rates & Refining Rates

tmbrinks

friimynd wrote: »

Thanks for the info. I've been considering what to do with my alts. Obviously having at least one main crafter is important for unlocking the crafting sets. Is there a benefit to having more than one?
It was mentioned that there is an inefficiency quotient to doing crafting writs, depending on your proficiency. So you could probably do better just earning a few more dollars by working some overtime or finding a 2nd income source. Then you do whatever people do to convert dollars to in game gold and other things. IDK, but it seems there are ways.
So really the value of doing the crafting on the alts needs to be great enough to offset this inefficiency. For example, one could be powerleveling or doing end game content for rewards and fun, vs. running around like robots punching buttons in kiosks. I do find it kind of relaxing and rewarding in a non-material way, especially with all the well-made addons.

What is the main benefit from crafting with alts?
- More high-end rewards (that can be bought with gold/money, so inefficiency again) basically just gold upgrades?
- Ability to obtain such rewards without having to shop/wait for others to post, compete with other buyers, etc.
- what else?

So, I've decided to keep on doing it, if only because it is something to do, but maybe sometimes I will and sometimes I won't.

So, let's put a pile of rewards/benefits from alt-crafting on the table and then a stack of $$$ representing the opportunity cost of the time spent doing the crafting. The new minimum minimum wage is now $22 so it just got more costly to waste time crafting.

Time per day per character doing all the writs? ... _________ minutes/seconds (high/low/average times)

Cost in $$$ of that time versus $$$ value of the rewards obtained.... _______ / ________ (which should be on top? probably the latter, so reward value / time value)

Inefficiency of crafting vs. spending $$$ for same in-game benefit: _______

.
.

on a side note, would there be any value to having a character at each level of crafting for the different reward boxes?

I also find them relaxing, so any monetary gains are really immaterial. I also won't sell gold for real money (against TOS), but I will use it to buy items from the crown exchanges... Minimum wage is also only $9.50 here... lol

The only craft it would be beneficial to have at different levels is provisioning, since it's one of the best sources of recipes to learn on alts. For all other crafts the loss in drop rate of the gold improvement materials (and the complete loss of master writ drops) is WAY bigger of a loss than any gains from items that drop (if any).

friimynd

what settings affect load time?
seems like it loads faster with minimal settings, but i'd like to know for sure, just have one or two settings to change

friimynd

aside: a 4 disk HDD array works well for speeding up disk access; i have 4 2TB drives for games, ssd for os and some progs
you could go bigger though with a sata card, 8, 10 hdd
i just use windows stripe

friimynd

i like the provisioner because you get a lot back, quantities of ingredients; i got 30 for 4 just now
but if i'm doing one i might as well do all of em (except alchemy, i save that for my alchemist only) except for the water one, where you need 3 waters, those are plentiful

friimynd

I thought of a benefit to having crafters at different levels, one per each level, for example.
They each would craft using different resources so the availability would be greater.
And they could each hold their own resources, freeing up bank space.
(I prefer non-sub, on principle; so i've got different crafters holding their own items, per profession, with a main eq crafter doing the 3 of those, for styles. Other alts hold his not needed materials like various style/trait and material items)
[i do find the limitations to non-sub crafting to be a bit annoying, offputting; but it has been interesting trying to develop a work-around; bank space getting bigger now, alts inventory bigger]

tmbrinks

If you're going for solely gold profit (which can be used to buy any materials you need) Max level is far and away the way you want to go. The single most valuable thing you get from daily writs are the gold improvement materials that drop from BS/WW/Cloth/Jewelry, and those have the highest drop chance on max level. Master writs are also valuable (except for jewelry), and those only drop on max level.

The only crafts I would consider doing at "not max level" would be
1. alchemy (definitely not levels 1 or 2, as those use corn flower, very expensive, plus the lower level waters are much more expensive than Lorkhan's Tears)
2. Provisioning - this one is good to do, get rarer recipes from it, plus no gold materials, and master writs are pretty minor
3. Jewelry - I'd consider splitting them half and half between level 1 and level 5. Level 1 is nearly self-sustaining, and you can get surveys, which you collect on a max level crafter for the platinum. You still come out ahead with doing max level on all, but it can be more tideous to manage the inventory.

friimynd

thanks, starting research with alts; greater chance of rewards from writs right?
glad to know they don't use the corn flower after level 2 alchemy
i like the idea of having at least 2 crafters for jewelry so they can help each other level up
maybe 1 character at each level of provisioning then; besides the idea of having my main provisioner have all the recipes, better luck at selling a bunch of recipes at different levels, probably
Was there a benefit to writ rewards for having more recipe knowledge? probably, i guess i'll keep having them use all the green ones at least, they don't sell for much

tmbrinks

friimynd wrote: »

thanks, starting research with alts; greater chance of rewards from writs right?
glad to know they don't use the corn flower after level 2 alchemy
i like the idea of having at least 2 crafters for jewelry so they can help each other level up
maybe 1 character at each level of provisioning then; besides the idea of having my main provisioner have all the recipes, better luck at selling a bunch of recipes at different levels, probably
Was there a benefit to writ rewards for having more recipe knowledge? probably, i guess i'll keep having them use all the green ones at least, they don't sell for much

yes, more research = more master writs for WW/BS/Cloth/Jewelry

For provisioning it's based on purple and gold recipes known for more master writs.

tmbrinks

Spreadsheet has been updated for the last time for the Dragonhold update.

One thing I'll be looking at is how the drop rate for surveys appears to potentially be lower on the alt account.
A hypotheis is that it might be because it doesn't have access to Elsweyr, which has survey locations, and those are just simply exempted from its rewards if it were to get one for that zone.

Will start tracking again with Harrowstorm!

Jaensn

Amazing work! I took the liberty of translating a simplified summary for a german social guild:

clan-oberon.de/2020/02/25/drop-raten-im-handwerk/

Thanks a lot for this insight!

tmbrinks

Awesome, glad it's being put to good use!

mursie

@tmbrinks

thanks for this thread. I'm hoping you could help with the following question:

I have 1 master crafter with all craft lines maxed with skill points in the upgrade lines (i.e. his daily writs are at max level)

my other 11 toons have lvl 50 in all crafts but i didn't spend skill points on their upgrade lines so they do daily writs at basic lvl 1 materials.

in your opinion, is this not effective if my main goal is the following: maximizing my chance to gain gold materials (dreugh wax, tempering alloys, chromium grains)?

if i am doing it wrong... what is the most effective spend of skill points that gets you max gold mats without over spending skill points (as my alts dont have a ton of them)

thanks for any and all help

tmbrinks

mursie wrote: »

@tmbrinks

thanks for this thread. I'm hoping you could help with the following question:

I have 1 master crafter with all craft lines maxed with skill points in the upgrade lines (i.e. his daily writs are at max level)

my other 11 toons have lvl 50 in all crafts but i didn't spend skill points on their upgrade lines so they do daily writs at basic lvl 1 materials.

in your opinion, is this not effective if my main goal is the following: maximizing my chance to gain gold materials (dreugh wax, tempering alloys, chromium grains)?

if i am doing it wrong... what is the most effective spend of skill points that gets you max gold mats without over spending skill points (as my alts dont have a ton of them)

thanks for any and all help

In my opinion, you cannot "overspend" the skill points, since the chances of getting gold improvement materials goes up significantly with the added skill points in the craft line.

Tier 1 writs give about a ~3% chance to drop a gold material, and at tier 10 it's up to about 30%.

For Jewelry, you get a guaranteed grain if you do them at tier 5, so it's even more important to get that maxed out.

In order of importance (for maximum profit), I'd maximize jewelry first, then clothing, then blacksmithing, then woodworking.

But, spending a few hours to collect the extra skill points so that you can do writs at maximum level is optimal.

Neoealth

Wow some people treat this game like a job. I just do the writs when I feel like it and don't pay too much attention to what drops.

Can't imagine ever feeling compelled to create spread sheets and collect data on writs. Not knocking it though, everyone to their own.

Asardes

All my characters are maxed out, not hard if you feed them trash drops & the intricate items from the other crafters doing writs to deconstruct, takes 3-4 days for wood, cloth & blacksmith, a couple of weeks for jewelry & enchanting. Alchemy and provisioning can be done in 15-20 minutes. I've had characters sitting idle for 2 years, just logging in for writs, till the time came to get them, grab skill points and make them combat ready. 6 will remain auxiliaries, just for storage & crafting since I don't see the point of having more than 2 of each class - stamina can DD & tank, magicka can DD & heal. It takes just around 80 skill points to fully spec crafting, meaning main passive, research and hirelings, but on an active character I have 375-376. So I will not go trough that effort to have redundant builds.

friimynd

So, as an anti-sub (averse to subbing) or if you like 'casual', with no access to the craft storage, the bank gets too damn full and it is just a real pain to do all the writs on all characters. Doing the equipment writs is less painful. If I keep the characters at the same level of crafting as they progress, it is fairly easy to do, having the bank as a central store of materials and a dump for research items. There must be enough space for the main character to offload his/her haul from questing or gathering or whatever.
What seems best is for each character to have its own resource pool in inventory, leaving the bank open for shuffling of goods from one character to the other, as I have different main crafters for each of the consumable professions and one for jewelry and one for the main 3 equipment skills, because of the styles.
The question is, is it worth it to craft at all if you are not a subber?
Well, no, unless you devote all your alts, in my case 9 total characters, to crafting.
My main is the eq crafter and doesn't hold any materials, styles, or traits, except when needed, and what is needed for the writs. He also does jewelry and enchanting, as it is easy to level my enchanter main together with him, and the same for jewelry, breaking down each others' makes.
The character breakdown looks like this:
1. Main eq crafter, Clothing, Blacksmithing, Woodworking... secondary Enchanter and Jeweler.
- inventory: only materials needed for writs, precrafted consumable writs.
2. Jeweler.
3. Enchanter.
4. Alchemist.
5. Provisionary.
6. equipment materials storage
7. equipment traits/styles storage
8. survey/treasure map storage
9. premium items and costume items storage

I was trying to do all the writ crafting using the bank, thinking that maybe if they stayed at the same level of crafting as they progressed it would be easy enough to manage, but it is just a pain.

So, for now I'm just doing the eq writ crafting as it doesn't require as many different materials to be in the bank as the consumable writs. I also do the research for the alts at the same time. The main crafter crafts items for the alts to research.

Eventually I plan on purchasing all the various items required for the other writs for each character to hold in their inventories, or to split up my pool of resources among them, etc. Having open space in the bank is more important for being able to go gathering and dump stuff off in the bank to keep going.

Honestly, it is kind of bs. I'm really burned out on it. Just sick of running out of bank space, shuffling through 9 characters to siphon off the various types of inventories.

But, having come this far I've worked it out fairly well how to proceed. Basically it began by doing the writs to get gold so the alts could train the stable skills up. Then I learned about this thread and improving one's chances of getting good rewards, which means more upgrade potential and just a greater experience of the game with various gear sets and such, crafting, improving. So, it is of value, but is it really worth it? idk

At this point it is merely an exercise in ... futility? There is improvement of crafting levels through writs. There is obvious rewards like gold upgrade materials and surveys etc. It is more for the puzzle of it really, how can someone who does not like to sub do it?

I'd say i'm less inclined to even play the game after all this time, after going through various things, like learning about the stupid tiny dropdown arrow for depositing other currency, like stones (rather than losing them, oops). It hasn't been great, overall. Maybe if I had just subbed I might have had a better experience of the game overall. Unfortunately now it is too late and I'm jaded.

So, I log in but I dont' care about the daily reward anymore. I just check to see if maybe something good is up there, like how they gave us Mirkmire. Murkmire. lol, smirkmire

ok, so... it goes like this... log in, see nothing is really going on with the game (idc about dragons, they are stupid; indriks don't impress me, etc.) basically click the stable upgrade, maybe run around doing writs and research, repeat 8 more times, the alts. Or just log off.

I don't even want to play the game anymore... just bleh.

oh well, i might sub some day, or go do some pvp, idk.

whatever

so, if they hadn't put crafting behind the paywall... guess it isn't the game for me

i doubt i'll contine...
hf

tmbrinks

@friimynd

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/515042/how-to-regularly-do-craft-writs-without-eso-a-minimalist-guide-by-zulera301

lots of suggestions here.

It can be done.

Neoealth

tmbrinks wrote: »

Neoealth wrote: »

Wow some people treat this game like a job. I just do the writs when I feel like it and don't pay too much attention to what drops.

Can't imagine ever feeling compelled to create spread sheets and collect data on writs. Not knocking it though, everyone to their own.

Literally set up the spreadsheet while I was on Christmas vacation, and it took me a few hours. With the add-ons tracking the drops, I spend maybe an hour a month to update it (and another hour every patch to transfer the data). It's provided numerous people the benefit of knowing what drop rates are, what they can expect from refining, and helps us avoid conspiracy theories.

...but you still felt compelled to come in here and comment

"Not knocking it though"... which is akin to "no offense... but"

You make it sound like I suggested this was not helpful to anyone. Never made any such claim.

Also, people actually create conspiracy theories about eso? That's kind of hilarious if true. Unless you meant to combat incorrect data. A conspiracy theory would suggest there is sinister motive or agenda. Players just innocently providing false data is hardly a conspiracy. 😂

Tatanko

Asardes wrote: »

a couple of weeks for ... enchanting

You can do enchanting in about 10 minutes for a new character, assuming you have an established master crafter who can make glyphs for the new character to deconstruct and ~200 open bank slots to store those glyphs in temporarily. Multicraft is great!

Neoealth wrote: »

You make it sound like I suggested this was not helpful to anyone.

What you wrote was interpreted that way, yes, and certainly not just by tmbrinks. Consider why multiple people felt that way about what you said. Tone is everything.

Neoealth

Tatanko wrote: »

Asardes wrote: »

a couple of weeks for ... enchanting

You can do enchanting in about 10 minutes for a new character, assuming you have an established master crafter who can make glyphs for the new character to deconstruct and ~200 open bank slots to store those glyphs in temporarily. Multicraft is great!

Neoealth wrote: »

You make it sound like I suggested this was not helpful to anyone.

What you wrote was interpreted that way, yes, and certainly not just by tmbrinks. Consider why multiple people felt that way about what you said. Tone is everything.

That's what happens when people don't read what someone says properly or jumps to conclusions because they get defensive. That is purely your fault not mine, I simply stated my personal opinion that I would never go to such trouble, then literally made the disclaimer that despite that, I see no problem if others want to do such a thing. It's called just stating a personal opinion. His defensive reaction was not necessary.

friimynd

Neoealth wrote: »

Also, people actually create conspiracy theories about eso? That's kind of hilarious if true. Unless you meant to combat incorrect data. A conspiracy theory would suggest there is sinister motive or agenda. Players just innocently providing false data is hardly a conspiracy. 😂

i don't mind 'tone', but it is good to be polite (or 'politic') [tactful]

so, conspiracy? maybe not, but...
.
basically the conspiracy is this... game companies, owned by faceless corporations mainly, EA, etc. are all in on the 'joke' of the video game industry, which is basically the same 'joke' as the tv and movie industry and ...sports, other 'entertainment', escapism

The idea is that you are 'suckered' into wasting your time AND your money on a trivial activity (like 'trivial pursuit', or 'jeopardy', etc.. lol, f____ wheel of fortune!) [i guess even the cross word puzzle] such as ESO and so are rendered impotent in the theatre of the world. Theater or theatre as in 'theater of war'. The world stage. Maybe you would be a member of your school board, or lead a cub scout pack. But no, you are playing a video game.

And the video game nerd says... 'but I'm effective in the world, or theater, of the video game, leading others and creating relationships etc.' This is the 'joke'. I like me some video game, but cmon... ESO, WoW, etc. they demand so much of an investment of your life.

And so it becomes clear, after enough research and experience, that there is indeed an actual 'conspiracy'. The developers and investors of the video game industry get it. They like video games so it is ok with them. They don't mind taking your money. They will probably play their own game and beat you at it in pvp. AND take your money.

But as far as conspiracies go it isn't that big of a deal. I mean, 9/11? iraq war? etc.? wwII even, and so on. A little bigger. Monsanto.?
But anyway. You know the deal. Take a break from it, if you can. Can you 'unsub' for a month? Notice they make it difficult to sub for just one month? Usually you have to do at least 2. Why can't I sub for a week? or a weekend? hmm...

anyway... i MIGHT sub to eso someday, but maybe i'll sub to swtor before i do eso? or even rift? (lol, probably not)
what did i spend money on last? Paladins. bought the valentines day box, all 13, got the pink unicorn; it is great
but i quit playing paladins because i decided i didn't want any of the remaining BP rewards (i had purchased the BP) i got to 29 and quit, because 30 just looked like junk to me (kind of how i see the indrik, and the dragons)

don't be so quick to discount any 'conspiracy THEORY', probably something to it

hf

friimynd

actually looking forward to playing some wizard101 (and pirate101)

VaranisArano

Players who don't pay attention to crafting issues may not realize, but tmbrinks' data here has been indispensable when dealing with player concerns over ZOS' drop rates for refining.

I'll give an example: when ZOS introduced Multicrafting, there were a number of players who refined a couple hundred to a couple thousand mats at a time and got bad results. They came to forums concerned that ZOS had screwed something up and that the drop rate foe using Multicraft was worse than refining one at a time as we used to.

Not only did tmbrinks help check the drop rates for Multicraft refining on the PTS, their enormous data set on the Live servers from before and after helped confirm that ZOS did not change the drop rate. Unlike the concerned and complaining players, tmbrinks has a large enough data set that it's statistically significant. Thus, we're able to actually use it to draw conclusions without it being biased by small sample sizes or outliers.

Their data is useful for a lot more than just that, of course. That's simply a particular example of how its been used to debunk conspiracy theories/fears that ZOS was screwing players over with Multicraft.

As someone who's done much smaller batch testing for ideas about how refining might be impacted, I really appreciate this store of data. (I got started testing refine rates myself when a guildie was convinced that refining 200 iron ore then 200 rubedite ore would give more tempers than just refining 400 rubedite ore. After testing 4000 mats with each method...there was no signiificant difference )

friimynd

haha, that is so funny, because it is true; ppl do get superstitious like that (although perHAPs because there may be some truth to the rumors, but who can really say for sure; we know devs do crazy stuff though)

i'll say it like this... i'm currently trying to get all the materials on my main's inventory for doing all the crafting writs daily (you have to craft it yourself, right?). I wouldn't be doing that if not for this thread. It sparked my interest and i find it relaxing, or something. so... good on ya

funny aside; i was doing a lot of alt-tab checking wikis for crafting writ requirements and looking at stores and kept having to re-initialize the store because of the 'alt' keybind for 'character windows', which i just now changed to 'numpad-0'

lol, finally changed that stupid keybind... after idk how long now

my favorite keybind i got from ESO is H for 'horse'. I changed autorun to Y (i used to use R but that is often 'reload', and T I like for 'target' or 'attack'), so it is an easy 'H+Y' to get on the horse and ride. For other games it is usually H ... wait ... Y, but still. I use H+Y for all my games now. (basically why I don't like to sub, because I like to play multiple games)

Veinblood1965

Well back on subject sigh.....

Great post btw, my RNG SUCKS! I gather about 5 jewelry surveys last night and refined 874 platinum dusts and got ONE freaking gold grain.

ZOS_Volpe

Greetings,

We have recently removed some unnecessary back and forth from this thread. This is a reminder to keep the discussion civil and constructive. Please keep our Community Rules in mind moving forward.

tmbrinks

Veinblood1965 wrote: »

Well back on subject sigh.....

Great post btw, my RNG SUCKS! I gather about 5 jewelry surveys last night and refined 874 platinum dusts and got ONE freaking gold grain.

OOF... sorry about the bad RNG. Good news is that it should revert back to the mean in the future. Here's to hoping you have the same RNG later, but the other direction!!!

friimynd

idk, i really feel that RNG is like luck, either you have good rng or you have bad rng, or maybe you are in between somewhere
.
you know the craps players blowing on their dice etc... something to it
but if you don't have it, don't worry about it, it probably means you don't need it

Tatanko

Big thank you to tmbrinks and this thread in general for motivating me to grind out 2 more crafting alts over the last week and a half. Even before social distancing was being implemented I knew that I wanted another project, and they're nearly ready to pump out all seven max level crafts at level 50! Yay for more income

friimynd

just finished deleting my top 3 characters "more deletions will become available over time"
eventually i will have zero characters
feels good, actually more fun than i ever had playing, though there were times it was fun
maybe someday I'll do a character and NOT craft
.
basically, it is just a chore and a waste of time and energy; and i don't even really like the game, though i wanted to; i still want to like it, but i don't
.
thanks for the interesting game of run around; was something
.
hf