A simple suggestion to improve Cyrodiil performance

Solariken

I'm super excited for the PvP event coming up, but thinking of it prompted me to post this suggestion I've been sitting on for a while:

Change Purge (Alliance War Support skill) to a forward conal field like Warden spore heal. This would almost single-handedly squash the ballgroup playstyle and promote a more realistic battle formation (brutes run in first and healers hang back).

It's glaringly obvious that Cyro suffers badly because ESO has some weird fetish for PBAOE effects that just encourage people to stack on top of each other and spam aoe. It looks ridiculous, is terribly unrealistic, is a brainless playstyle, and obliterates server performance. Let's make some practical changes to reduce the incentive to stack up like a bag of potatoes.

BONUS SUGGESTION: slightly reduce the radius of Earthgore.

BONUS BONUS SUGGESTION: If Earthgore procs on top of another Earthgore, make the second one negate the first. Too often I see five of these things go off right on top of each other and the server decides to take a nap.

frozywozy

I 100% agree that balling up is a brainless playstyle. People need to learn to small scale and git gud.

Delsskia

When I grow up I want to be adequate.

VaranisArano

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

Minno

Most AOEs should be conal in my opinion. We don't have friendly fire/camera lock to justify 360 AOE.

Unless of course Zos decides to keep pvp only first person lol.

Solariken

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

frozywozy

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

VaranisArano

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Get with an organized raid that doesn't run more than a couple Earthgore, and lets their healers use more than one skill (I used all of mine most nights I played) and get back to me.

As I said, try it, or get with a better raid. I've been playing as an organized raid healer since before Earthgore existed and the organized raids dominated Cyrodiil then too.

I'd ve terribly bored if all I did as a PVP healer was spam one skill and let Earthgore proc,

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

Thats the case because an organized raid knows how to stay together, which contrary to what some people think, is more a product of practice and teamwork than merely following a crown brainlessly. Keeping a 16 to 24 man raid tight enough that healers and, yes Earthgore, can keep everyone healed at once is not as easily as it looks - when cohesion fails, that's when the group dies - and that cohesion is a product of practice, purges, rapids, and every member breaking free and following or anticipating crown's calls while playing their role on the team.


But frankly, I think I'm casting pearls before swine when it comes to explaining how good organized raids work. Either people understand, and thus understand why no amount of PVP changes have touched the ability of the good organized raids to adapt and remain dominant over Cyrodiil, or they continue to think its a brainless playstyle and beg for ZOS to give them silver bullets to deal with good organized raids and are surprised when the silver bullets don't work. This suggested Purge change is one such silver bullet - change it and it won't fundamentally change the dominance of organized raids who can easily adapt because they aren't actually brainless about how they play as a raid.


You want to know what really challenged even the good organized raids? The buffs to Scattershot and meatbag siege. That really pushed our healers when it came to coordinated, smart healing. Problem is, siege became murder for everyone else who couldn't field dedicated and good healers so ZOS reverted it. Make of that what you will.

frozywozy

VaranisArano wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

Thats the case because an organized raid knows how to stay together, which contrary to what some people think, is more a product of practice and teamwork than merely following a crown brainlessly. Keeping a 16 to 24 man raid tight enough that healers and, yes Earthgore, can keep everyone healed at once is not as easily as it looks - when cohesion fails, that's when the group dies - and that cohesion is a product of practice, purges, rapids, and every member breaking free and following or anticipating crown's calls while playing their role on the team.

I was being sarcastic. Personally I would like Earthgore to be entirely removed from the game but this being said, I believe that pugs and large unorganized zergs benefit the most from it, not the ballgroups who run 3 or 4.

VaranisArano

frozywozy wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

Thats the case because an organized raid knows how to stay together, which contrary to what some people think, is more a product of practice and teamwork than merely following a crown brainlessly. Keeping a 16 to 24 man raid tight enough that healers and, yes Earthgore, can keep everyone healed at once is not as easily as it looks - when cohesion fails, that's when the group dies - and that cohesion is a product of practice, purges, rapids, and every member breaking free and following or anticipating crown's calls while playing their role on the team.

I was being sarcastic. Personally I would like Earthgore to be entirely removed from the game but this being said, I believe that pugs and large unorganized zergs benefit the most from it, not the ballgroups who run 3 or 4.

Ah, then I apologize, it seems my sarcasm detector is constantly broken and I fall afoul of Poe's Law quite frequently

Solariken

@VaranisArano nobody is doubting the effectiveness of balling up tight. It's obviously effective.

But if you think spamming aoe and creating targeting problems for enemies is "skillful play"...

But it doesn't even matter what either of us think, because the root issue is that these "tactics" have objective, measurable detrimental impact on server performance for everyone.

My OP suggestion would help mitigate the problem, no doubt in my mind.

VaranisArano

Solariken wrote: »

@VaranisArano nobody is doubting the effectiveness of balling up tight. It's obviously effective.

But if you think spamming aoe and creating targeting problems for enemies is "skillful play"...

But it doesn't even matter what either of us think, because the root issue is that these "tactics" have objective, measurable detrimental impact on server performance for everyone.

My OP suggestion would help mitigate the problem, no doubt in my mind.

Whereas I'm of the opinion that organized groups dominated Cyrodiil before Earthgore, and given that they've adapted and continued to dominate Cyrodiil despite every other change and that Purge is only one part of the toolkit that allows them to do so, your suggestion is not a silver bullet to the performance issues caused by many players all in the same area or even to the dominance of organized raids.

The only silver bullet is ZOS actually fixing Cyrodiil.

Moreover, I'm not arguing that organized raid gameplay is more or less skillful than other types of play - thats a whole different argument and I think different game styles require different skills. I am however, strongly disagreeing with your OP in which you state that its "brainless". Large organized raids require a great deal of practice, cooperation and teamwork to compete at a high level which is quite different from the skills needed to play as a ganker, a 1vXer, or a small group. Moreover, its that very practice, cooperation, and teamwork that allow the large organized raids to adapt to every change the Devs throw at PVP, and the same would allow them to adjust to your suggested Purge and Earthgore changes.

But we aren't going to convince each other. So I'm content to agree to disagree, and hope you have a great day!

antihero727

frozywozy wrote: »

I 100% agree that balling up is a brainless playstyle. People need to learn to small scale and git gud.

You run with a ball group that does the exact same thing. You can tell when drac is on the server from the ping spikes.

idk

Based on the title I expected an actual suggestion to improve performance. Not a thread to nerf skills. This thread is only about nerfing skills. lol

Solariken

idk wrote: »

Based on the title I expected an actual suggestion to improve performance. Not a thread to nerf skills. This thread is only about nerfing skills. lol

Sadly it's a case where you can't have one without the other.

antihero727

I wouldn’t mind playing a smaller server, smaller population, and only the center ring keeps 2 per faction. 30 players per faction and some having unique objectives or obstacles. Like super tough walls or glass walls. I still don’t #BeliveallZOSemployees and doubt anything will ever significantly improve.

p00tx

One consistent theme underlying every "nerf dis thing plz thnx" thread seems to be the lag. I think the lag is caused by a whole, complicated, probably long list of things all intertwined and interconnected, and can't be reduced down to one or two simple things. I also believe that many of our concerns regarding skills or sets would dramatically lessen if there were no/less lag to make playing unnecessarily difficult. If I were able to actually fire off skills or move, or swap bars, I know I could bring down those balls groups with a few carefully timed ultis and some smart movement. I've done it before during times when things were functioning a bit better. I'll take a thousand more Earthgores if it means I can just move more than 5m without hitting another loading screen or lag spike.

We need to quit focusing on the symptoms of the problem (skills that exacerbate the lag or seem to be exploiting the lag) , and instead focus on the problem (the lag). Zos sees nothing but a constant and growing wall of complaints about every single, solitary aspect of the game, and they're probably just ignoring us now out of self preservation. I imagine it's exhausting to read day in and day out. We should be flooding the forums with calls to fix the lag, and nothing else, until it's done. Then we can go back to our regularly scheduled complaining.

Solariken

p00tx wrote: »

One consistent theme underlying every "nerf dis thing plz thnx" thread seems to be the lag. I think the lag is caused by a whole, complicated, probably long list of things all intertwined and interconnected, and can't be reduced down to one or two simple things. I also believe that many of our concerns regarding skills or sets would dramatically lessen if there were no/less lag to make playing unnecessarily difficult. If I were able to actually fire off skills or move, or swap bars, I know I could bring down those balls groups with a few carefully timed ultis and some smart movement. I've done it before during times when things were functioning a bit better. I'll take a thousand more Earthgores if it means I can just move more than 5m without hitting another loading screen or lag spike.

We need to quit focusing on the symptoms of the problem (skills that exacerbate the lag or seem to be exploiting the lag) , and instead focus on the problem (the lag). Zos sees nothing but a constant and growing wall of complaints about every single, solitary aspect of the game, and they're probably just ignoring us now out of self preservation. I imagine it's exhausting to read day in and day out. We should be flooding the forums with calls to fix the lag, and nothing else, until it's done. Then we can go back to our regularly scheduled complaining.

@p00tx but what about when there is a legitimate flaw in the way combat is designed (exhibited in this case via PBAOE skills)?

Lag and performance issues aside, don't you think that players stacking inside each other is a ridiculous concept? Why continue to encourage such ridiculousness especially when it is a known cause of heavy lag?

p00tx

Solariken wrote: »

p00tx wrote: »

One consistent theme underlying every "nerf dis thing plz thnx" thread seems to be the lag. I think the lag is caused by a whole, complicated, probably long list of things all intertwined and interconnected, and can't be reduced down to one or two simple things. I also believe that many of our concerns regarding skills or sets would dramatically lessen if there were no/less lag to make playing unnecessarily difficult. If I were able to actually fire off skills or move, or swap bars, I know I could bring down those balls groups with a few carefully timed ultis and some smart movement. I've done it before during times when things were functioning a bit better. I'll take a thousand more Earthgores if it means I can just move more than 5m without hitting another loading screen or lag spike.

We need to quit focusing on the symptoms of the problem (skills that exacerbate the lag or seem to be exploiting the lag) , and instead focus on the problem (the lag). Zos sees nothing but a constant and growing wall of complaints about every single, solitary aspect of the game, and they're probably just ignoring us now out of self preservation. I imagine it's exhausting to read day in and day out. We should be flooding the forums with calls to fix the lag, and nothing else, until it's done. Then we can go back to our regularly scheduled complaining.

@p00tx but what about when there is a legitimate flaw in the way combat is designed (exhibited in this case via PBAOE skills)?

Lag and performance issues aside, don't you think that players stacking inside each other is a ridiculous concept? Why continue to encourage such ridiculousness especially when it is a known cause of heavy lag?

Someone pointed out earlier that these groups will adapt to any and all changes, and continue to find ways to make balling up a viable thing. I have to agree with them. These groups will always exist no matter what, as they have always existed. Some players feel more powerful when in these groups and just can't fight on their own, and it works for them.

In all honesty, I can see the allure, given that the lag is not contingent upon large group sizes and makes it impossible to fight or escape the inevitable larger groups who insist on mobbing you when you're alone. I've experienced intense lag spikes while capturing a resource in an outlying area with another random solo player (literally no one around for "miles" as everyone was down south), so bad that we couldn't land a hit on the NPCs and I ended up using siege to take them down(I'm embarrassed to admit).

Fix the lag, and you disincentivize the "safety in numbers" mentality and squash the cycle for many of the groups. We will always see ball groups, but without the lag, they lose most of their bite strength and go back to being an annoyance. Take away the PBAOE effect of Purge and it'll have some pretty bad implications in PvE, as much as it might provide a minute and very temporary fix for a portion of PvPers.

frozywozy

antihero727 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I 100% agree that balling up is a brainless playstyle. People need to learn to small scale and git gud.

You run with a ball group that does the exact same thing. You can tell when drac is on the server from the ping spikes.

That was sarcasm. Also, to answer your comment, you are definitely right when you say that 16men who know how to play the game are entirely responsible for creating the lag. Not the players that need to stack with 60 others because they don't understand game mechanics.

The_Shadowborn

antihero727 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I 100% agree that balling up is a brainless playstyle. People need to learn to small scale and git gud.

You run with a ball group that does the exact same thing. You can tell when drac is on the server from the ping spikes.

Sure well NA must be diffrent as when our 12 man on EU see ping spikes 99% of the time means TDA are rushing around the corner with their 30 man and the rest of the Faction. Lag obviously nothing to do with faction stacking.

Most people from guilds like Drac on NA or Noxs on EU came from small sale but when you take a resource now 40+ people turn up (how it is now on EU) there i only so much you can do on your own after all. So suprise suprise we got together a small group to take them on.
We will always adapt no matter the changes dw.

antihero727

frozywozy wrote: »

antihero727 wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

I 100% agree that balling up is a brainless playstyle. People need to learn to small scale and git gud.

You run with a ball group that does the exact same thing. You can tell when drac is on the server from the ping spikes.

That was sarcasm. Also, to answer your comment, you are definitely right when you say that 16men who know how to play the game are entirely responsible for creating the lag. Not the players that need to stack with 60 others because they don't understand game mechanics.

Sarcasm or not a 60 person stack of light attack spammers and a 16 person organized raid have around the same effect. It’s not wrong for drac and others to run that way it’s ZOS’s fault for everything.

Rake

small scale DC 120 on a single keep great playstyle best ever

Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO

@Solariken
What about converting purge to a conal do you think would reduce lag having been told it would have almost 0 affect on groups or are you looking for a suggestion to remove groups from pvp?

Irylia

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

Alright so remove those crutches then if it already doesn’t make a difference.
The difference was, before all these freebies with mobile aoe ults like sleet, Free healing from
earthgore and easier access to hp stacking was that said organized raids could and would get snuffed out much easier.
Now for anyone with less players than the raid will find it extremely difficult to kill past earthgores/30k hp min.

And all these aoe’s on top of increased cp just add to the list of calculations the server is forced to make.

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

You aren’t fighting 60 people

frozywozy

Irylia wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

You aren’t fighting 60 people

How it's going Irylia?

p00tx

frozywozy wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

You aren’t fighting 60 people

How it's going Irylia?

Hoooooly zerglets Batman. This is what it's like day in and day out in Xbox Vivec too. Looks like EP is the zerg faction no matter where you go.

Irylia

frozywozy wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

You aren’t fighting 60 people

How it's going Irylia?

That's not 60 nor are 60 players hitting you at one time.
Also if 60 was your consistent # for clips/skirmishes we would see more of them during the drac vids, which we don't.
They usually number equal to double your raid.

frozywozy

Irylia wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

You aren’t fighting 60 people

How it's going Irylia?

That's not 60 nor are 60 players hitting you at one time.
Also if 60 was your consistent # for clips/skirmishes we would see more of them during the drac vids, which we don't.
They usually number equal to double your raid.

That was 54 different players during that clip to be exact.

The point was not that 60 players are hitting us at once but the amount of earthgores a raid of 16 have to deal with.

We have been fighting that specific guild for a few weeks now. This is mainly why I personally decided to play AD on Sunday nights because I cannot stand that amount of people stacking together. No abilities are working and people crash like crazy.

It is well known that they advertise often in zone for Raid3 filling with 2 raids full already. I know you are desperately trying to shame us down but please accept that you just went too far assuming or speculating and let's move on from this. thanks

Delsskia

Oh Frozn, everyone knows that Izzy was spamming his iWin button. :-)

Irylia

frozywozy wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Irylia wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

In a decent organized group, "ball group" play is not brainless. I've been the healer, using Purge in addition to other skills, and if you think its brainless, either go try it or get a better group to run with.

And if you think that changing the way Purge works will "squash" the organized raids, LOL. They'll adapt, as they have to everything else. Nothing that ZOS has changed about Cyrodiil has seriously impacted the dominance of the good organized raids.

You won't reduce incentives to ball up as long as:
A. Cyrodiil's objectives are important to the score, attracting lots of players whether grouped or not
B. Cyrodiil, originally designed for groups of 8-24 and currently 2 to 24, rewards organized groups, and the larger, the better, becuase they can cover the weaknesses in each other's builds better than smaller groups and the good groups adapt to new changes better than anyone else. Changing Purge alone (or handing Earthgore a deserved nerf) isnt going to change that dynamic.

@VaranisArano please tell me more about how hard it is to follow crown and mash one button and letting Earthgore procs do all the heavy lifting.

Again, solid point brought on the table. The 3-4 earthgores of a 16men raid carry the group much more than the 15-20 earthgores of the 60men zerg they are fighting.

You aren’t fighting 60 people

How it's going Irylia?

That's not 60 nor are 60 players hitting you at one time.
Also if 60 was your consistent # for clips/skirmishes we would see more of them during the drac vids, which we don't.
They usually number equal to double your raid.

That was 54 different players during that clip to be exact.

The point was not that 60 players are hitting us at once but the amount of earthgores a raid of 16 have to deal with.

We have been fighting that specific guild for a few weeks now. This is mainly why I personally decided to play AD on Sunday nights because I cannot stand that amount of people stacking together. No abilities are working and people crash like crazy.

It is well known that they advertise often in zone for Raid3 filling with 2 raids full already. I know you are desperately trying to shame us down but please accept that you just went too far assuming or speculating and let's move on from this. thanks

WHat portion of anything i said is “desperately shaming you down”
I’m stating what I see in the videos since you peruse the forums always saying you fight an entire faction or x numbers such as 60.

I’m responding to something you said, not initiating it with bm like you would like to believe.

Aren’t you also the same person to mock small groups or talk down to someone on the forum who voices an issue with large raids or zergs.
From

frozywozy wrote: »

I 100% agree that balling up is a brainless playstyle. People need to learn to small scale and git gud.

To your “they need to get good and not stack more numbers but Learn to chain people out, well timed ult bomb...” etc phrase.

Your guild even attempts to diminish the fights we have because of size, cp or no cp, players amongst them as well.

Then again you are the guy who thought my gank videos were to expose people and not complete sarcasm/comedy.

Please accept that you just went too far assuming or speculating and let’s move on from this, thanks.