Stealth archer meta is ruining BGs

Zeromaz

Vapirko wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

That being said I wouldn't be opposed to seeing snipe retuned so that it is buffed for non stealth builds but slightly nerfed or at least have the bugs fixed for the stealth gimmick builds. The reality though is that snipe doesn't exist in a vacuum and a big problem is the NB kit not so much snipe itself. Particularly cloak needs looked at in that regard.

A while back I would have agreed with you, but recently what was a slightly annoying stealth meta has become an endless torrent of stealth meta combined with bow buffing.

Its well understood that every good build probably has some gimmick, massive 2h heavy attack 1 shots, huge bleeds, meat shields, but I think when one build suddenly takes up a third of the slots in a general battleground, you have to see there is a problem. Not just because more people switching to it means its probably overtuned, but also because in this case for each new stealthbow there is, the problem gets exponentially worse.

I can see this being annoying in lower MMRs but where i play... i hardly see NBs in general... much less a bow using NB

Probably because not only are these builds going to be useless against coordinated teams, but better players are less likely to want to cheese their way to a win. They’re more likely to want to engage in combat.

And by not cheese you mean wait for ultimates before fighting then mindlessly AOE everything.

kalunte

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

reduce the damage by 75% make it a instant cast with a small dot component, remove the defile, reduce the range to 20m remove the stun from stealth, fix the health dysinc.
Also fixed some of your values(more accurate how hard a snipestacker can hit) I tried a snipestacker for 1h in pvp 2 months ago and was horrified...

1st: reduce the range? really? why not make achers fight melee with 1 arrow in each hand?

2nd: the stun from stealth is something that can be done with ALL ATTACKS in the game. this is a mechanic from crouch state. nothing more. you can do the same with dark flare. NBs only have a buff that makes this particular stun last longer, but since minded ppl tend to breakfree and dodge right after any stun, this buff is somehow low.

Zeromaz

kalunte wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

reduce the damage by 75% make it a instant cast with a small dot component, remove the defile, reduce the range to 20m remove the stun from stealth, fix the health dysinc.
Also fixed some of your values(more accurate how hard a snipestacker can hit) I tried a snipestacker for 1h in pvp 2 months ago and was horrified...

1st: reduce the range? really? why not make achers fight melee with 1 arrow in each hand?

2nd: the stun from stealth is something that can be done with ALL ATTACKS in the game. this is a mechanic from crouch state. nothing more. you can do the same with dark flare. NBs only have a buff that makes this particular stun last longer, but since minded ppl tend to breakfree and dodge right after any stun, this buff is somehow low.

It surprises me how many people don’t understand basic mechanics in the game but feel they have an important voice on game balancing and changes

JobooAGS

Zeromaz wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

reduce the damage by 75% make it a instant cast with a small dot component, remove the defile, reduce the range to 20m remove the stun from stealth, fix the health dysinc.
Also fixed some of your values(more accurate how hard a snipestacker can hit) I tried a snipestacker for 1h in pvp 2 months ago and was horrified...

1st: reduce the range? really? why not make achers fight melee with 1 arrow in each hand?

2nd: the stun from stealth is something that can be done with ALL ATTACKS in the game. this is a mechanic from crouch state. nothing more. you can do the same with dark flare. NBs only have a buff that makes this particular stun last longer, but since minded ppl tend to breakfree and dodge right after any stun, this buff is somehow low.

It surprises me how many people don’t understand basic mechanics in the game but feel they have an important voice on game balancing and changes

There is a reason why we have a class rep system XD

kalunte

Zeromaz wrote: »

It surprises me how many people don’t understand basic mechanics in the game but feel they have an important voice on game balancing and changes

well, when it comes to balancing, clear rules have to be put on the table. like "a spell cant have more that 2effects" and then list those effects like:
-deals dmg
-heals
-buffs 1major thing
-buffs 2minor things
-applies 1major debuff
-applies 2minor debuffs.

and divided into 2 main classes:
-single target (with everything it includes in terms of avoidability, target necessisty to cast, etc)
-aoe spell (with everything it includes like no need for a target to cast it, undodgeable, suffers from movement lag)

only exemples and particularly offtopic but still. spells that are being spot as OP often stacks multiple effects or allows (in the shadow) some classes to overperform with larger kits.

this is why i dont get why ppl cry about snipe, and snipers ^^ they dont stack anything, they act like strategists or cowards (your choice mates), but dont have more mobility like it was designed in the begening of the game, nor any major tankyness in their kit, neither can they help their team unless they kill enough ppl so that their mates dont get outnumbered over and over.

Zeromaz

JobooAGS wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

reduce the damage by 75% make it a instant cast with a small dot component, remove the defile, reduce the range to 20m remove the stun from stealth, fix the health dysinc.
Also fixed some of your values(more accurate how hard a snipestacker can hit) I tried a snipestacker for 1h in pvp 2 months ago and was horrified...

1st: reduce the range? really? why not make achers fight melee with 1 arrow in each hand?

2nd: the stun from stealth is something that can be done with ALL ATTACKS in the game. this is a mechanic from crouch state. nothing more. you can do the same with dark flare. NBs only have a buff that makes this particular stun last longer, but since minded ppl tend to breakfree and dodge right after any stun, this buff is somehow low.

It surprises me how many people don’t understand basic mechanics in the game but feel they have an important voice on game balancing and changes

There is a reason why we have a class rep system XD

This is a valid point. I just find it frustrating when one or more misinformed players posts something completely untrue, then the forums spread that like a wildfire. Then class reps and devs have to sift through it all and decide whats a legitimate complaint and what isn’t.

JobooAGS

Zeromaz wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

reduce the damage by 75% make it a instant cast with a small dot component, remove the defile, reduce the range to 20m remove the stun from stealth, fix the health dysinc.
Also fixed some of your values(more accurate how hard a snipestacker can hit) I tried a snipestacker for 1h in pvp 2 months ago and was horrified...

1st: reduce the range? really? why not make achers fight melee with 1 arrow in each hand?

2nd: the stun from stealth is something that can be done with ALL ATTACKS in the game. this is a mechanic from crouch state. nothing more. you can do the same with dark flare. NBs only have a buff that makes this particular stun last longer, but since minded ppl tend to breakfree and dodge right after any stun, this buff is somehow low.

It surprises me how many people don’t understand basic mechanics in the game but feel they have an important voice on game balancing and changes

There is a reason why we have a class rep system XD

This is a valid point. I just find it frustrating when one or more misinformed players posts something completely untrue, then the forums spread that like a wildfire. Then class reps and devs have to sift through it all and decide whats a legitimate complaint and what isn’t.

I feel you, too many times I see not 100% true infomation that people take and run with

jediodyn_ESO

JobooAGS wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

reduce the damage by 75% make it a instant cast with a small dot component, remove the defile, reduce the range to 20m remove the stun from stealth, fix the health dysinc.
Also fixed some of your values(more accurate how hard a snipestacker can hit) I tried a snipestacker for 1h in pvp 2 months ago and was horrified...

1st: reduce the range? really? why not make achers fight melee with 1 arrow in each hand?

2nd: the stun from stealth is something that can be done with ALL ATTACKS in the game. this is a mechanic from crouch state. nothing more. you can do the same with dark flare. NBs only have a buff that makes this particular stun last longer, but since minded ppl tend to breakfree and dodge right after any stun, this buff is somehow low.

It surprises me how many people don’t understand basic mechanics in the game but feel they have an important voice on game balancing and changes

There is a reason why we have a class rep system XD

The class rep system in itself is broken. You need PVP players who actually play multiple PvP classes and who spend most of their time in pvp all day giving advice about pvp balancing, not PvE players who sometimes PvP and are committed to just one class.

You know who can give good pvp balancing advice? Those players on our servers who re-roll every patch to "the Meta' and dominate, every patch. They'll play the 2-3 strongest classes in every patch "season" then move on to the new build once the nerfs hit. Those players actually "get" what is wrong and needs to be fixed.

brandonv516

jediodyn_ESO wrote: »

JobooAGS wrote: »

Zeromaz wrote: »

kalunte wrote: »

Mangeli200194 wrote: »

reduce the damage by 75% make it a instant cast with a small dot component, remove the defile, reduce the range to 20m remove the stun from stealth, fix the health dysinc.
Also fixed some of your values(more accurate how hard a snipestacker can hit) I tried a snipestacker for 1h in pvp 2 months ago and was horrified...

1st: reduce the range? really? why not make achers fight melee with 1 arrow in each hand?

2nd: the stun from stealth is something that can be done with ALL ATTACKS in the game. this is a mechanic from crouch state. nothing more. you can do the same with dark flare. NBs only have a buff that makes this particular stun last longer, but since minded ppl tend to breakfree and dodge right after any stun, this buff is somehow low.

It surprises me how many people don’t understand basic mechanics in the game but feel they have an important voice on game balancing and changes

There is a reason why we have a class rep system XD

The class rep system in itself is broken. You need PVP players who actually play multiple PvP classes and who spend most of their time in pvp all day giving advice about pvp balancing, not PvE players who sometimes PvP and are committed to just one class.

You know who can give good pvp balancing advice? Those players on our servers who re-roll every patch to "the Meta' and dominate, every patch. They'll play the 2-3 strongest classes in every patch "season" then move on to the new build once the nerfs hit. Those players actually "get" what is wrong and needs to be fixed.

So basically we need players that exploit broken mechanics until they get fixed. But they have to be able to excel at doing this, not just be able to replicate. Makes sense.

s.barker1990b16_ESO

The problem is stealth is just too damn powerful.. They need to make it so Dot's break it earlier, aoe affects knock them out olfit etc.. It's too much of an advantage to Nightblades compared to the benefits of all other classes
We might as well all just scrap our mains and go Nightblade if we actually want to do half decent in bg's

Qbiken

Imagine to un-ironically defend snipe in it's current state......

stojekarcub18_ESO

Yesterday I had to deal with not only what you're talking about, but CRAZY stam drain on top of it. Wasn't fun.

Aurielle

stojekarcub18_ESO wrote: »

Yesterday I had to deal with not only what you're talking about, but CRAZY stam drain on top of it. Wasn't fun.

They were running resource poisons on top of Snipe? LOL, the lengths to which some people go to cheese their way to an easy victory in this game never cease to amaze me.

I’m starting to feel like I might just make a permanent switch to FPS games. A shame, because I love high fantasy MMOs. Oh well.

validifyedneb18_ESO

Has been a quite a few days since I even logged on. ESO is very much the sort of game where I just get on for a small reason then find reasons to keep playing for hours on end, but issues like this just mean I cba to even log on in the first place.

PVP is fun, but there is also a roulette wheel determining if ill have significantly less fun or not, and atm the chances of that are pretty damn high with just the sheer quantity of people playing this *one* build.

MilwaukeeScott

Something killed me!!

NERF IT !!!

Toc de Malsvi

Snipe is a ranged projectile designed to maximize burst. Snipe can be blocked for massive reduction in damage, can be reflected for zerp damage to self, can be dodged for zero damage to self. Can be mitigated with resistances or shields. Can be interrupted when cast in 28-36m range. Snares the caster, delays in lag and becomes almost unusable.

Builds that do not utilize one of these many counters will die often to builds designed entirely around maximizing the ranged projectile burst. Mag Wardens are excellent at countering these builds.

Most decent to good players can make a build that will wreck a good portion of their opponents, but will also be very very weak to another percentage of opponents. The top players are always tweaking their builds to try and counter their weaknesses while staying strong enough to finish other opponents.

Zeromaz

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Snipe is a ranged projectile designed to maximize burst. Snipe can be blocked for massive reduction in damage, can be reflected for zerp damage to self, can be dodged for zero damage to self. Can be mitigated with resistances or shields. Can be interrupted when cast in 28-36m range. Snares the caster, delays in lag and becomes almost unusable.

Builds that do not utilize one of these many counters will die often to builds designed entirely around maximizing the ranged projectile burst. Mag Wardens are excellent at countering these builds.

Most decent to good players can make a build that will wreck a good portion of their opponents, but will also be very very weak to another percentage of opponents. The top players are always tweaking their builds to try and counter their weaknesses while staying strong enough to finish other opponents.

Well said. Preach it

iCaliban

The defile on snipe is overtuned. Otherwise its just a highly annoying playstyle to encounter, but not fundamentally broken. The fact that every sniper is a nightblade says that cloak is perhaps too strong and needs a cost change like streak got.

The annoyance most players feel towards snipers is mostly due to how the player themselves play, rather than the skills being too strong. Shooting engaged players in the back from stealth, then hiding the moment anyone looks at you, is frustrating to many.

Its a legit playstyle, and disliking it doesnt mean it should be removed.

Zeromaz

iCaliban wrote: »

The defile on snipe is overtuned. Otherwise its just a highly annoying playstyle to encounter, but not fundamentally broken. The fact that every sniper is a nightblade says that cloak is perhaps too strong and needs a cost change like streak got.

The annoyance most players feel towards snipers is mostly due to how the player themselves play, rather than the skills being too strong. Shooting engaged players in the back from stealth, then hiding the moment anyone looks at you, is frustrating to many.

Its a legit playstyle, and disliking it doesnt mean it should be removed.

Personally, i know how much you love it

Thogard

The snipe playstyle might be cheesy, but it is extremely fun!

https://clips.twitch.tv/MushyVivaciousReubenDxAbomb

Zeromaz

Thogard wrote: »

The snipe playstyle might be cheesy, but it is extremely fun!

https://clips.twitch.tv/MushyVivaciousReubenDxAbomb

This makes me very happy. I haven’t seen you enjoy a kill that much in a long time

brandonv516

s.barker1990b16_ESO wrote: »

The problem is stealth is just too damn powerful.. They need to make it so Dot's break it earlier, aoe affects knock them out olfit etc.. It's too much of an advantage to Nightblades compared to the benefits of all other classes
We might as well all just scrap our mains and go Nightblade if we actually want to do half decent in bg's

You are very misinformed.

DoTs prevent stealth so therefore break it before it begins. They do not break Cloak.

AoE effects DO knock NBs out of Cloak and anyone out of stealth.

If you want to do half decent in BGs you can play any character you'd like.

If you want to dominate in all BGs game modes, you DO NOT create a NB.

I encourage you to scrap your main and try out Magblade in BGs! You're in for a real treat.

iCaliban

Zeromaz wrote: »

iCaliban wrote: »

The defile on snipe is overtuned. Otherwise its just a highly annoying playstyle to encounter, but not fundamentally broken. The fact that every sniper is a nightblade says that cloak is perhaps too strong and needs a cost change like streak got.

The annoyance most players feel towards snipers is mostly due to how the player themselves play, rather than the skills being too strong. Shooting engaged players in the back from stealth, then hiding the moment anyone looks at you, is frustrating to many.

Its a legit playstyle, and disliking it doesnt mean it should be removed.

Personally, i know how much you love it

Lol on my main I hate it. Built to take down heavy armor stam, which means glassy. My dk doesnt care at all about snipers.

Truthfully only the defile is too much. Destro skill line lacks any sort of comparable debuff, and defile while nerfed, is still very very strong.

validifyedneb18_ESO

brandonv516 wrote: »

DoTs prevent stealth so therefore break it before it begins. They do not break Cloak.

Well, true, but they do go into stealth for maybe half a second before the dot hits again im pretty sure?
Could just be mistaking dots for AOEs with cloak, as I have a perma cold aura on me on my main anyway.

Zeromaz

validifyedneb18_ESO wrote: »

brandonv516 wrote: »

DoTs prevent stealth so therefore break it before it begins. They do not break Cloak.

Well, true, but they do go into stealth for maybe half a second before the dot hits again im pretty sure?
Could just be mistaking dots for AOEs with cloak, as I have a perma cold aura on me on my main anyway.

A DoT will prevent you from sneaking for 5 seconds after the last tick... to include any DoTs you have on an enemy player

Betty_Booms

I wonder how a BG completely full of snipe tards would go.

Would they all run around in stealth all match trying to find each other.. ?

When they find each other, do they cloak away and run from each other?

There is nothing worse the fighting say 1v2 and you are actually going to win and a snipe tard pops out and takes 2/3ds of your health.

Because the majority of them sit in stealth waiting for an easy low health target. What a play style!

And when is ZOS going to fix derp shot....omg....like snipers needed another bug to exploit...

Aurielle

Betty_Booms wrote: »

I wonder how a BG completely full of snipe tards would go.

Would they all run around in stealth all match trying to find each other.. ?

When they find each other, do they cloak away and run from each other?

There is nothing worse the fighting say 1v2 and you are actually going to win and a snipe tard pops out and takes 2/3ds of your health.

Because the majority of them sit in stealth waiting for an easy low health target. What a play style!

And when is ZOS going to fix derp shot....omg....like snipers needed another bug to exploit...

I once played a match during off-hours on my magwarden that consisted of approximately 95% stamNB bowtards. I think there was maybe ONE failsorc on another team that kept dying. I fortunately had detect pots on me, and it was effing HILARIOUS. The NBs all tried to run away and died to birb spam. Repeatedly. Since they all were stealthed out, and since there were no other non-NBs to fight against (that poor failsorc...), they weren’t able to wait for me to engage in battle before spamming Snipe on me from 40 meters.

I imagine that if it was three teams full of NBs, it would just be a stalemate unless they had detect pots.

Demra

If not for bow and snipe i would've never scored any kills as a noob and would've not stayed long enough to learn other skills and weapons that i use today in pvp. The same is true for my friends. Yes it is cheap win , but that is what beginners need.

NyassaV

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ6L4omudnE&t=1015s
who said you had to use sneak?

JobooAGS

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/447174/non-snipe-bow-bow-pvp-build#latest