Buff to pets in pve?

SirAndy

BretonMage wrote: »

I'd like to say, as a solo magsorc who also uses the Clannfear, that even without the taunt, having a pet draw at least some aggro is immensely helpful for my survivability. Making them untargettable would (especially with the shield nerf) make the solo experience unplayable.

Exactly ...

Waffennacht

BretonMage wrote: »

I'd like to say, as a solo magsorc who also uses the Clannfear, that even without the taunt, having a pet draw at least some aggro is immensely helpful for my survivability. Making them untargettable would (especially with the shield nerf) make the solo experience unplayable.

I tested out both the Clannfear and the Matriarch last night (not on PTS), and I was definitely targeted more with the Matriarch. People who want to do group content can bring the Matriarch, but the Clannfear still rules for soloplay.

But I'd love it if they didn't need to be double-barred...

As one of the only solo veteran content players remaining; I disagree that it would have a noticeable difference.

swirve

SirAndy wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

... One thing to keep in mind also, pets can not use Taunts in the content in which they are immune so, the dream of having pets tank for you is not possible ...

Goodbye solo PvE PetSorc, you were fun to play while it lasted ...

Sad they dont offer a tankable non immune version...

SirAndy

swirve wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

... One thing to keep in mind also, pets can not use Taunts in the content in which they are immune so, the dream of having pets tank for you is not possible ...

Goodbye solo PvE PetSorc, you were fun to play while it lasted ...

Sad they dont offer a tankable non immune version...

I'd gladly pay crowns for that!

Orihara_Izaya

@ZOS_Finn

What about the idea of allowing Pet's to scale off your max stat (like Stamina or Magicka?). I feel like stamina players have very little variety when it comes to class skills, wouldn't it be interesting to allow players pet's to scale of either max Magicka/Spell Power or Stamina/Weapon DMG.

Just a suggestion maybe if you could pass the thought along?

Zer0oo

a little unrelated but can pets in pvp not get damage from siege?

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wow, that's a solid change for solo play

Actually no it’s not. I agree with this change as it does more good than harm, but if you were someone that likes soloing vet content on a pet Sorc, you got nerfed hard. Losing the aggro from pets is a game changer when solo.

ZOS_Finn

YoshinJaa wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn
Thank you for taking the time out to respond to inquiries/concerns over pets in PvE. I do have a suggestion to add to this discussion. Would it be possible or a beneficial thing to have combat pets scale to highest magicka/stamina and weapon/spell damage pools so that you could theoretically make a stamina pet build? Looking at Clannfear in Sorc that deals physical damage as a part of my reason. Also, this would include the spiders from Tangling Webs (which I can't still understand why stamina can't activate a stamina based synergy but that is another question no to the discussion), and potentially pets from proc sets, like Maw or Shadowrend.

I believe this has been suggested before but it's more a question to ask the combat team. It may be helpful to start a thread on Sorc Pets for them to better focus on.

@karpok This change only affects Dungeons, Trials and Group Arenas. It does not affect any other portion of the game. Pets already had a very high reduction in damage taken within this content, this change just pushes it to 100% because of the nature of some abilities we make, 90% wasn't quite enough to keep them safe. Pets do not move out of danger in the same ways players do and those players which utilize pets as part of their damage in PVE were losing DPS without much recourse.

Feric51

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wow, that's a solid change for solo play

Actually no it’s not. I agree with this change as it does more good than harm, but if you were someone that likes soloing vet content on a pet Sorc, you got nerfed hard. Losing the aggro from pets is a game changer when solo.

I don't think it ever said they couldn't draw aggro, they are simply losing the ability to taunt. There is a difference. Mobs will aggro either the closest enemy, or the one that deals the most damage, and generally "lock" onto a target for a set period of time (5-10 seconds (*anecdotal))where it recalculates the source of max damage being done to it unless forcibly taunted away.

Historically, certain pets (Clanfear I'm looking at you) could reliably taunt, and hold aggro while the player was DPSing away. As the PTS changes imply, pets will still be targetable, and can draw aggro from mobs if they attack first or are in LoS between the mob and the player. As long as the player doesn't attack that mob, it should continue to hold aggro. Now, once you focus that mob, it will most likely turn and attack you once its timed targeting cycle is reset. The changes to group content just mean that during that time your pet is drawing aggro it will be invincible... and also invincible to AoE mechanics as well.

The non-targetable aspect Finn was talking about was restricted to specific trial mechanics that used proximity chain reactions. Not that they would be completely untargetable for the entirety of the group content.

That's my interpretation anyway.

Moloch1514

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

YoshinJaa wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn
Thank you for taking the time out to respond to inquiries/concerns over pets in PvE. I do have a suggestion to add to this discussion. Would it be possible or a beneficial thing to have combat pets scale to highest magicka/stamina and weapon/spell damage pools so that you could theoretically make a stamina pet build? Looking at Clannfear in Sorc that deals physical damage as a part of my reason. Also, this would include the spiders from Tangling Webs (which I can't still understand why stamina can't activate a stamina based synergy but that is another question no to the discussion), and potentially pets from proc sets, like Maw or Shadowrend.

I believe this has been suggested before but it's more a question to ask the combat team. It may be helpful to start a thread on Sorc Pets for them to better focus on.

@karpok This change only affects Dungeons, Trials and Group Arenas. It does not affect any other portion of the game. Pets already had a very high reduction in damage taken within this content, this change just pushes it to 100% because of the nature of some abilities we make, 90% wasn't quite enough to keep them safe. Pets do not move out of danger in the same ways players do and those players which utilize pets as part of their damage in PVE were losing DPS without much recourse.

@ZOS_Finn thats a great idea to start a new thread but why bother when the combat team never interacts like this. Maybe you can ping them for us and let them chime in on this issue?

iCaliban

Orihara_Izaya wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn

What about the idea of allowing Pet's to scale off your max stat (like Stamina or Magicka?). I feel like stamina players have very little variety when it comes to class skills, wouldn't it be interesting to allow players pet's to scale of either max Magicka/Spell Power or Stamina/Weapon DMG.

Just a suggestion maybe if you could pass the thought along?

This is honestly a horrible idea. What possible rationale could there be for daedra summoned from oblivion to become more powerful the more stamina/physical strength you have?

Instead of trying to trying to shoehorn in something that doesnt make sense, perhaps instead they could change some passives/sorc skills to give the theme of a warrior sorc/battlemage.

Stam sorc absolutely needs love. Just dont think this is the way to go at all.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

iCaliban wrote: »

Orihara_Izaya wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn

What about the idea of allowing Pet's to scale off your max stat (like Stamina or Magicka?). I feel like stamina players have very little variety when it comes to class skills, wouldn't it be interesting to allow players pet's to scale of either max Magicka/Spell Power or Stamina/Weapon DMG.

Just a suggestion maybe if you could pass the thought along?

This is honestly a horrible idea. What possible rationale could there be for daedra summoned from oblivion to become more powerful the more stamina/physical strength you have?

Instead of trying to trying to shoehorn in something that doesnt make sense, perhaps instead they could change some passives/sorc skills to give the theme of a warrior sorc/battlemage.

Stam sorc absolutely needs love. Just dont think this is the way to go at all.

I think I am with you on this one. Stam sorc is in last place for trial DPS, but it is still a highly useful build in a lot of respects. One of the most obvious is benefits to a stam sorc is mobility. Unless pets were drastically redesigned, I feel they would be counterproductive to the stam playstyle. It would be like asking Usain Bolt to take up a job as a cat hearder.

Waffennacht

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Wow, that's a solid change for solo play

Actually no it’s not. I agree with this change as it does more good than harm, but if you were someone that likes soloing vet content on a pet Sorc, you got nerfed hard. Losing the aggro from pets is a game changer when solo.

They have already stated that the pets have lost the taunt ability patches ago.

They will still draw aggro in the same manner as before.

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

BretonMage wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

One thing to keep in mind also, pets can not use Taunts in the content in which they are immune so, the dream of having pets tank for you is not possible.

So the Clannfear will no longer tank?

This thread took me from ecstatic to anxiety-ridden in just 1 minute

The change to taunt I mentioned was changed quite a while ago, when we upped their damage resistance initially.

For those mentioning Maelstrom, it is not affected as it is solo, we want players to be able to use pets effectively in that arena. That said, bosses within Maelstrom have always been immune to pet taunt and this has not changed.

When the changes occurred were not noted; but any pet sorc player should have noticed the difference

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

FYI

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/438763/combat-pet-changes-from-update-19

In short, there were some changes made in Update 19 which were not noted. They are live however.

We realize that pets within Trials and Dungeons can sometimes be a point of frustration and are looking into ways to alleviate that feeling. We will continue to evaluate and make changes when possible so, by all means, keep providing feedback.

Thanks!

The only change currently listed is how the pets are immortal - meaning the weakened Shields will not be a Nerf to pet survivability.

You can reliably slot any pet solo and not rely on casting ward for the pet when you didn't need it yourself. Prevents pets from dying to one shot mechanics

You now, for example, when soling WGT have more time to pick the lock because your pet can't die.

You' can slot pets on Stam characters or tank characters and they won't die.

The only change is positive, you're reacting to a change that occurred awhile ago

codestripper

So I noticed that pets actually die way more often in vMA now...Like even on round 1. Maybe I don't spam my shields enough but any more than what I do and sustain would become an issue. Is anyone else having trouble keeping pets alive in vMA on the PTS? That matriarch is my only heal, the fact that it dies so quickly makes me want to switch it out for crit surge...but i like my flappy bird...

Edit: The odd part about it is the fact that when I did my crit surge only (no shield) runs on the PTS, I actually saw my pets die a lot less. I'm not sure if they got changed to take more damage or? I don't get it.

daedemrwb17_ESO

.

daedemrwb17_ESO

@ZOS_Finn

While this thread is alive can you have whoever is in charge of gear sets, specifically monster sets, look at removing the proc chance on Maw of the Infernal?

This set can be extremely powerful or extremely underwhelming in PvE depending on how long it takes to proc the Daedroth.

Even if the damage has to be toned down (I have seen it do 3k DPS on a parse before) I would just like the consistency. It would also be a great way to allow Necropotence to be viable on classes other than petsorc and wardens running the bear.

iCaliban

daedemrwb17_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn

While this thread is alive can you have whoever is in charge of gear sets, specifically monster sets, look at removing the proc chance on Maw of the Infernal?

This set can be extremely powerful or extremely underwhelming in PvE depending on how long it takes to proc the Daedroth.

Even if the damage has to be toned down (I have seen it do 3k DPS on a parse before) I would just like the consistency. It would also be a great way to allow Necropotence to be viable on classes other than petsorc and wardens running the bear.

Even better would be changing the 1pc to max mag. Since pet sorcs have more than enough health with the passive from daedric summoning

phileunderx2

I've been playing around the last 2 days with the scamp soloing some normal dungeons and a gyser. In the dungeons he has been working pretty well. Only has died to the last boss in Darkshade Caverns. But at the gyser all was well until the last boss and it was the giant poison spitting turtle and the scamp died constantly to the point I no longer bothered to re summon him. So the scamp needs work. It went from pretty good to absolutely useless.

SirAndy

phileunderx2 wrote: »

I've been playing around the last 2 days with the scamp soloing some normal dungeons and a gyser. In the dungeons he has been working pretty well. Only has died to the last boss in Darkshade Caverns. But at the gyser all was well until the last boss and it was the giant poison spitting turtle and the scamp died constantly to the point I no longer bothered to re summon him. So the scamp needs work. It went from pretty good to absolutely useless.

That gives me an idea, jumping on the PTS right now, I''ll be baaaack ...

Transairion

There is already an invincible, untargetable pet on Live: the nightblade shade.

Even though pets have no taunt, they can still draw aggro (much to the consternation of a tank who finds that a melee enemy, instead of walking to the group, is hanging out at a distance in the back whacking on a Twilight), and now that they are invincible, any aggro that they do draw effectively becomes free damage mitigation. Making them untargetable similar to the NB shade would solve this problem, no?

The NB Shade also does next-to-nothing for damage output, which is why it is untargetable/invincible and has a set duration (so you don't have to double bar it). NB Shade and Warden Netch are basically just abilities with pet graphics attached, fire and forget abilities you use every 10-20 seconds.


Sorc Pets have all the weaknesses of players (getting stunned/snared/CC'd included), but as a result of having HP and being targetable they have actual damage output and remain indefinitely while slotted (save Storm Atronach Ult which is limited duration but can still be CC'd/killed). They will ONLY be made invincible in group content (4 player dungeons and 12 player Trials) simply because a lot of Hard Mode mechanics now oneshot pets (while players can avoid the mechanic entirely). Technically pets shouldn't even BE getting oneshot due to a past Patch Note where combat pets couldn't lose more than 50% of their HP in one hit, but maybe that broke or never applied to certain things.


But as far as NB Shade mechanics being applied to Sorc pets, you'd have to redesign the entire skill line to make that change and I vastly prefer the playstyle of permanent pets to temporary low-damage spell effects with utility (IE Shade).

I disagree, but then again, i'm probably the one PetSorc left on live who uses the Clannfear ...

I feel obligated to ask why you do use Clanferr (I assume you're not a tank/using it soley for the burst heal), since it's damage is really low and when it lost the ability to actual-taunt back in the day it sort of lost any purpose it actually had left. I can't remember if the "tail swipe" still knocks NPC's over...

Since it can't taunt, wouldn't the Familiar/Scamp hold aggro exactly the same if/when the pet has aggro?

SirAndy

SirAndy wrote: »

That gives me an idea, jumping on the PTS right now, I''ll be baaaack ...

@ZOS_Finn

Jumped on the PTS and made an exact copy of my live PetSorc. I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

I play this character mainly to solo veteran group content so i took her to solo veteran Fungal Grotto I because i have run this dungeon many, many times on live while farming for gear.

My setup is pretty simple:
Heavy attack lightning staff AOE based using the Clannfear to take aggro and to heal myself while i and my AOE's do the damage. I weave in light attacks and skills when my resources allow for it. Empowered Ward is my goto shield.

ON LIVE:
The Clannfear may not taunt enemies anymore but it sure holds a *lot* of aggro, even on the mini bosses and final boss.
Resource management is not a problem and neither is shield uptime. I do have to pay attention to my Pet healthbar, but otherwise this dungeon is simple and routine.

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.


This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

SirAndy wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

That gives me an idea, jumping on the PTS right now, I''ll be baaaack ...

@ZOS_Finn

Jumped on the PTS and made an exact copy of my live PetSorc. I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

I play this character mainly to solo veteran group content so i took her to solo veteran Fungal Grotto I because i have run this dungeon many, many times on live while farming for gear.

My setup is pretty simple:
Heavy attack lightning staff AOE based using the Clannfear to take aggro and to heal myself while i and my AOE's do the damage. I weave in light attacks and skills when my resources allow for it. Empowered Ward is my goto shield.

ON LIVE:
The Clannfear may not taunt enemies anymore but it sure holds a *lot* of aggro, even on the mini bosses and final boss.
Resource management is not a problem and neither is shield uptime. I do have to pay attention to my Pet healthbar, but otherwise this dungeon is simple and routine.

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.


This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

Because of this-

. Champion System
The Apprentice
Spell Precision: Decreased the Spell Critical Strike Chance granted to 9% from 12%.
The Ritual
Precise Strikes: Decreased the Weapon Critical Strike Chance granted to 9% from 12%.
Developer Comment:
Spoiler
These changes were made to keep damage and critical strike rates in line after the increased changes to Minor Prophecy/Savagery.

You will now have to figure out how to get a dark magic ability on your bar and use it, 6% spell crit is huge not to have.

mague

MyKillv2.0 wrote: »

@ZOS_Finn

Thinking strictly from a Magden perspective.... the magic bear's only difference between base and magic morph is that the bear automatically responds upon death. If the bear cannot die, the morph is rather useless. Am I wrong?

Both morphs have slightly higher damage.

DoobZ69

Will the pets tooltip say this is how they operate? NO

BrightOblivion wrote: »

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Make pets immune to damage sometimes - this is what this change comes down to - idiotic.

This is such a stupid change.
First of all its inconsistent - some places the pets will take damage and in some instances it won't. The list is vague and ridiculous. Many players are still having to be told to stop using the Frost staff because they do not realise it taunts and now this.
Then you have the separation of pve vs pvp on top of that. The player will need to learn 2 playstyles for their pets - in 1 they keep an eye on their health and make sure they stay alive and in the other they don't. WTF. It goes completely against this BS idea ZOS puts forward where they don't separate PVE from PVP as far as skills are concerned.

Completely disappointed with ZOS this PTS cycle. The changes are erratic, not thought through, game-breaking and just downright childish. On top of that they're massive and has no consideration for any of the issues the players have/are putting forward. The current team clearly has no goal for what they actually want to achieve and are leaving actual concerns behind. Every change has a knee-jerk reaction which is even more inconsistent and shocking.

Get your *** together and take a deep breath and give a moment's thought before creating situational constraints on something as massive as that.

Maybe it's because I'm a petsorc main and have been for the past year or more (give or take a couple months where I was in a guild that had banned their use), but I'm going to have to disagree with much of your assessment.

First, I don't find the change remotely idiotic. As a petsorc, my familiar's pulse is easily in my top 3 sources of damage on almost every fight. For a sorc healer, it's one of the- if not the- main burst heal. In both cases, he takes up two bar spots out of 10 and take almost 1.5 seconds to resummon, during which you can do nothing else and your dps/hps drops hard. Particularly with the shield changes, they would die incredibly often, and then you have to spend the time resummoning them. It'd be like making it so that jabs or bol could be disabled with a 1.5s interruptable cast time before you could even cast and make use of it. Except worse because, again, they take up 2 spots. Silly, right?

But it's inconsistent! Not really. In group PvE content (trials, dungeons, group arenas), where the incoming damage is severe and you generally have a tank, the pets are invulnerable, so they don't die to a sneeze. In anything else, they aren't. It's actually quite simple to figure out. 1. Are you in a 4 man dungeon/trial/group arena, or aren't you? 2. What was truly difficult to figure out (and incredibly inconsistent, too) was which bosses/mechanics would kill/brutally maim the pet and which wouldn't. My familiar has died 5 times during one storm atro boss fight in vAA before, for reasons I still don't know. Meanwhile, in the Galchobar fight in vet Bloodroot Forge, he would stand there in the middle of the Weapon Throw, slobber, growl, and be perfectly fine. 3. This actually makes it more consistent and easier to follow, and makes it so you don't have to keep non-pet gear and skills for some fights where the pets are dying too quickly or killing your team mates because of mechanics.

In PvP, where counterplay is king, an invulnerable pet is a horrible idea. "I'm going to take a mobile turret, send it into your midst, and, when I push this button, it starts pulsing AoE damage and emits a stun every 2 seconds for 8 seconds. And there's nothing you can do about it." is a very good way to get them nerfed into Oblivion. You have to be able to take them off the field and put the sorc on the back foot, or a 1v1 becomes a permanent 1v3, with a potential 1v4 every time they drop the atro and all you can do is either soak up that damage or run away. Sorc's using his Twilight to heal? Kill it and force a resummon. Scamp in your face? Kill it and force a resummon. Bonus points if you interrupt the sorc and drag it out.

I'll be the first to admit a lot of the changes this patch had me scratching my head and feeling like they were turning too many gears too far too quickly. This change here though, I think Finn and his team got right on the money and, as a petsorc main, I feel it absolutely addresses a major pain point without being overpowered. So, #F...UmmThanksFinn.

@ZOS_Finn Now, about that Yokeda Kai fight.... xD

@BrightOblivion

The pets need fixing but the way its being done is wrong. They're separating venue from venue (pvp vs pve vs overland) in how the pets operate and that is just WRONG. Will they add tooltips for this for the pets? NO. What if you take a 3 month break and come back and walk into a dungeon and suddenly your pets ARE dying? Are you going to send time looking into why? The improvement for the pets is NEEDED, nobody is denying it, but carving up the situations in which a pet works in certain ways is just lazy design. I've boldened the points in your post:
1. What if you run the dungeon solo? What about with 2 people? what about with 3? is it always immune? The fact that they just announced this change and already have to explain 20 times how and where this will work is only an indication of future confusion for players. Its the same way people don't know that defile is useless in PVE and taunt is useless in PVP. Again - lazy design.
2. How is your pet not dying in a dungeon going to make it easier for you to figure out how your pet died when it DOES die? This argument is illogical. Simply saying "its because i'm not in a """4man pve area""" " won't give you any answers. May as well blame God.
3. You will now have to wear pet gear and non-pet gear. Congrats. On top of Pve/PVP gear you also have to double for each depending on which content you are actually doing. CONSISTENCY, that's what you're defending here??

I play a tank and suffer from a terrible disease known as gearing. Gear for overland, light pve, heavy pve and pvp. Why? Because the skills are designed separately for each venue. Your whole class design has just got a kick in the nuts into the same space. Its WRONG and STUPID and LAZY. And you are not seeing it I'm afraid to say. This is the same exact problem that causes 2h be irrelevant in PVE and DW lacklustre in PVP. So currently your pets are broken in PVE and to some extent in PVP and I guarantee you they will be an even bigger nuisance if this change goes through. I'm sorry the pets have been rubbish this entire time but the #1 issue for pets is SLOTTING and this will not be fixed by this rubbish bandage approach.

Vahrokh

SirAndy wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

That gives me an idea, jumping on the PTS right now, I''ll be baaaack ...

@ZOS_Finn

Jumped on the PTS and made an exact copy of my live PetSorc. I somehow ended up with slightly less critical but a few more points in spell damage even though they are an exact copy of each other.

I play this character mainly to solo veteran group content so i took her to solo veteran Fungal Grotto I because i have run this dungeon many, many times on live while farming for gear.

My setup is pretty simple:
Heavy attack lightning staff AOE based using the Clannfear to take aggro and to heal myself while i and my AOE's do the damage. I weave in light attacks and skills when my resources allow for it. Empowered Ward is my goto shield.

ON LIVE:
The Clannfear may not taunt enemies anymore but it sure holds a *lot* of aggro, even on the mini bosses and final boss.
Resource management is not a problem and neither is shield uptime. I do have to pay attention to my Pet healthbar, but otherwise this dungeon is simple and routine.

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?) but it does *not* draw any aggro anymore, even the trash mobs ignore it!
So now i have the full onslaught of all trash mobs plus the bosses while trying to keep my reduced 40% shields up, heavy attacking and staying alive.
There are no more resources for any light attacks or skills, i can barely keep up the Liquid Lightning, let alone weave in an staff skills.
All my magicka goes into shields and heals and there is nothing left for offensive attacks.


This pretty much confirms what i suspected from your comments.
I never imagined this character to struggle that hard to get through what i otherwise consider the easiest of the veteran group dungeons.

If pets keep DIYING and even Clanfear does not tank (it's only reason to exist) any more, then I am sorry, I cannot keep paying a sub for this.

What can we do: we cannot shield pets any more. They die like before. We have neutered shields but now pets won't take any hit any more, including the pet whose only reason to exist is to tank.

Am I the only one who just cannot understand what's going on with our class?

What else can we get before this accursed Murkmire is out? That we become unable to slot a staff and can only wear chest and belt any more?

I mean: if I tell what they are doing in a LIVE (not alpha!!!) AAA MMO to my friends, they would ask me what I have been drinking!

ZOS_Finn

SirAndy wrote: »

ON PTS:
The Clannfear still takes damage (so i'm guessing the 0 damage hasn't been added yet?)

The change should already be on the PTS, what abilities if you know were damaging your pet so we can take a look?

After doing some digging, it looks like the damage reduction for Trials made it into the last PTS but the damage reduction for group Dungeons and Arenas did not. Look for that to make its way into the next PTS push. Sorry for the confusion.

SirLeeMinion

Vahrokh wrote: »

Am I the only one who just cannot understand what's going on with our class?

What else can we get before this accursed Murkmire is out?

While I have far more time on several other toons, I've been primarily playing pet sorc since spring of this year. I find the shield changes appalling on all my mag toons. The knee-jerk pet changes made to cover the shield mis-step are something a bit more than annoying.

In truth, I don't think all this is merely a blunder with the sorc class. The Devs are either oblivious to or opposed to the many people who want to run solo in this MMO. Ping time, long queues, bad experiences with toxic players, real-life demands that prohibit extended periods of play time... whatever the reason, this is a game where many players choose to and prefer to run content solo or in low-commitment groups most of the time. These changes that gimp challenging solo play to balance high-end, high commitment content just seem like one more stab at a play-style that seemingly typifies most players.

karpok

DoobZ69 wrote: »

Will the pets tooltip say this is how they operate? NO
They're separating venue from venue (pvp vs pve vs overland) in how the pets operate and that is just WRONG.

I completely agree. Besides we're talking about Murmire, but I guess (hope ?) there will be an eso after Murkmire.
Class balance is already complex and draw many issues. What if tomorrow sorc skill tweaking need to integrate multiple constraint depending on the type of venue they are applying.

I don't undertand the logic behind. Many have already called for different skill tuning for PvE and PvP. Devs always said it would be too complicated and we always struggle for changes made for either PvE or PvP impacting the other.
And now we came with changes that only applies to a subset of PvE content. Does it really make sense ?

katorga

The improvement for the pets is NEEDED, nobody is denying it, but carving up the situations in which a pet works in certain ways is just lazy design.

Bingo. New players, casual players, are going to be completely baffled. It is obviously a knee jerk change because the impact of the shield nerfs.

It might be a moot point, because using pets, especially two, is close to not viable without the 3rd bar from overload.

Waffennacht

katorga wrote: »

The improvement for the pets is NEEDED, nobody is denying it, but carving up the situations in which a pet works in certain ways is just lazy design.

Bingo. New players, casual players, are going to be completely baffled. It is obviously a knee jerk change because the impact of the shield nerfs.

It might be a moot point, because using pets, especially two, is close to not viable without the 3rd bar from overload.

I can't remember the last time I saw a two pet sorc build I even remotely thought about using.

1 pet for years now, the familiar.

I don't know why so many players have issues soloing vet content now