[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Uryel

My worst issue with Nighblades today is that the identity of the class has been slashed over and over for PvP balance reasons, watering it down to a point it's unrecognisable.

Best exemple ? The "assassination" skill line.

First skill : an execute abiulity, meaning it does decent damage on already wounded targets. Good enough, but not quite "assassination". Still, not a bad one.

Second skill : teleports, deal some damage, and utility. Allright, so far, so good.

Third skill : defense skill. In assassination. What the... ?

Fourth skill : debuff, mostly useful against strong enemies, in a group. Cool skill, one of the morphs would fit the theme of a berserker way more than that of an assassin, though, and overall nothing you'd expect from an assassin. Pretty cool skill for a support role, if the game had one.

Fifth : used to be a decent assassination-themed skill. Now, it's a very, very lame defense skill. The top skill of the assassination line is a defense skill.

And then there is the path of shadow or whatever it's called, changed long ago because it wasn't "unique" enough. can't have nightblades deal AoE heal and damage, that's not good. Templars can, though, but hey, now you get to start with a speed buff ONLY, until you morph it into something actually useful, either damage or heal.

I suppose I would do exactly just that if I wanted people to stop playing nightblades.

Moose_Scout wrote: »

...oh and a class that can't survive and has almost no defensive/healing abilities shouldn't have cast times!

This I don't get, however. If your nightblade can't survive, you're playing it wrong. That's basically the ONE thing they are good at now, since assassination is a joke, and their healing for others is meh. But you can steal life left, right and center.

John_Falstaff

@Chelo , people do weave on gamepads... but of course, there are many other factors.

Say, mNB rotation best be dynamic, else it's a significant damage loss - and on consoles, lack of buff duration trackers makes it way harder. I sure would like ZOS to add more user-friendly and customizable buff tracker to core game, but failing that, they might want to adjust some skill durations at least, because it's one of the points where disparity between platforms is very noticeable.

Langeston

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Chelo

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Me too... The moment he other guy said NB healing was enough in the current meta, I knew he was playing on console, so I checked his profile and guess what... He was playing on Xbox.

I often can tell the plataform just by reading the comments because it feels we are playing different games...

Streak is nasty in PC because of high APM (actions per minute). A PC player can do like 4 different actions while streak, healing, shielding, stunning, changing streak direction like 3 or 4 times, in very few seconds.

But when a NB cloak, half of the actions break cloak, we can use Race Against Time while cloaking but every Resto Staff skill breaks cloak.

There are other examples but honestly I love when consoles players play on PC for the first time, it's like experiencing a whole new game haha.

OWLTHEMAD

Dont get me wrong, its op on console. But you have a split second to react to it and can see where someone is going to go. The whole sprite changes direction in that breif instant at the begining of the animation. (My buddy mains a sorc. We duel. A LOT.) so long as you manage your stam its not insurmountable. Streak is far more expensive if used consecutively so if they abuse it thats to your advantage. There is but only so much they can cast it without it being a waste of resources. The key against any mag sorc is to keep swallow soul, radiating regen (radiating works better on magblade imo, longer duration makes it more dependable for after getting burst) and phantasmal escape going. The major evasion, and the merciless resolve mitigation stacking will keep you from getting taken out by a streak/meteor or other ulti combo, then the hots will give you enough time to break free and get your head back on straight. Then you can teleport or cloak if you got em.

Old healing ward might count as a burst heal btw. I think nightblades using it as such (cast then cloak till the heal pops) is i think why it got nerfed. Not that any reasoning was given for that decision.

Rapid regen is bursty but still sits firmly in Hot territory. I think wed be fine if soul siphon dropped its cast time. Pretty much useless in pvp with the cast time.

I dont remember but i think the current healing ward is a heal based on shield strength or something like that.

Deathlord92

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Chelo wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Me too... The moment he other guy said NB healing was enough in the current meta, I knew he was playing on console, so I checked his profile and guess what... He was playing on Xbox.

I often can tell the plataform just by reading the comments because it feels we are playing different games...

Streak is nasty in PC because of high APM (actions per minute). A PC player can do like 4 different actions while streak, healing, shielding, stunning, changing streak direction like 3 or 4 times, in very few seconds.

But when a NB cloak, half of the actions break cloak, we can use Race Against Time while cloaking but every Resto Staff skill breaks cloak.

There are other examples but honestly I love when consoles players play on PC for the first time, it's like experiencing a whole new game haha.

Depends how competitive the console player is I play PS4 and I’m a fast APM player a very good mag sorc is very lethal completely agree so is a templar imo and don’t get me started on stamcro of course this is just from a stamblade and magblade point of view as it’s all I play. Obviously you can’t compare to completely different games but I have no problems killing pc players on mw a crossplatform game.

Chelo

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Chelo wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Me too... The moment he other guy said NB healing was enough in the current meta, I knew he was playing on console, so I checked his profile and guess what... He was playing on Xbox.

I often can tell the plataform just by reading the comments because it feels we are playing different games...

Streak is nasty in PC because of high APM (actions per minute). A PC player can do like 4 different actions while streak, healing, shielding, stunning, changing streak direction like 3 or 4 times, in very few seconds.

But when a NB cloak, half of the actions break cloak, we can use Race Against Time while cloaking but every Resto Staff skill breaks cloak.

There are other examples but honestly I love when consoles players play on PC for the first time, it's like experiencing a whole new game haha.

Depends how competitive the console player is I play PS4 and I’m a fast APM player a very good mag sorc is very lethal completely agree so is a templar imo and don’t get me started on stamcro of course this is just from a stamblade and magblade point of view as it’s all I play. Obviously you can’t compare to completely different games but I have no problems killing pc players on mw a crossplatform game.

You are not getting it... Doesn't matter how good/competitive you are, on a console you are limited by your hardware.

If you are doing "well" at 30 fps, imagine what could you do at 200 fps (just to put an example).

If we just take hardware as the only variable (ceteris paribus), PC will give you the fastest APM.

This is why Gaming hardware and mostly peripherals keep evolving, to give you that edge of advantage. If you think about about mechanical keyboards, 200 hrz monitors, MMO gaming mouse, heck even internet connection and ping, everything keep stacking to the pile of advantages.

All of this won't make you a better player, but it will let you show your best performance because you won't be limited by hardware variables.

When people make comments about classes that seems completely out of place, most of the time is because they haven't watch/fight that class as his full potential and that's how we can tell which plataform people are using.

NB is the one class that's benefits the most on PC, because it requiere higher APM than other classes, you have to be very dynamic in PvP and keep your weaving all the time, even when you are defending, you have to keep those Bow Proccs up, also understand your surroundings, use los, etc, etc. Other classes are more straight forward and mistakes have less punishment.

Deathlord92

Chelo wrote: »

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Chelo wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Me too... The moment he other guy said NB healing was enough in the current meta, I knew he was playing on console, so I checked his profile and guess what... He was playing on Xbox.

I often can tell the plataform just by reading the comments because it feels we are playing different games...

Streak is nasty in PC because of high APM (actions per minute). A PC player can do like 4 different actions while streak, healing, shielding, stunning, changing streak direction like 3 or 4 times, in very few seconds.

But when a NB cloak, half of the actions break cloak, we can use Race Against Time while cloaking but every Resto Staff skill breaks cloak.

There are other examples but honestly I love when consoles players play on PC for the first time, it's like experiencing a whole new game haha.

Depends how competitive the console player is I play PS4 and I’m a fast APM player a very good mag sorc is very lethal completely agree so is a templar imo and don’t get me started on stamcro of course this is just from a stamblade and magblade point of view as it’s all I play. Obviously you can’t compare to completely different games but I have no problems killing pc players on mw a crossplatform game.

You are not getting it... Doesn't matter how good/competitive you are, on a console you are limited by your hardware.

If you are doing "well" at 30 fps, imagine what could you do at 200 fps (just to put an example).

If we just take hardware as the only variable (ceteris paribus), PC will give you the fastest APM.

This is why Gaming hardware and mostly peripherals keep evolving, to give you that edge of advantage. If you think about about mechanical keyboards, 200 hrz monitors, MMO gaming mouse, heck even internet connection and ping, everything keep stacking to the pile of advantages.

All of this won't make you a better player, but it will let you show your best performance because you won't be limited by hardware variables.

When people make comments about classes that seems completely out of place, most of the time is because they haven't watch/fight that class as his full potential and that's how we can tell which plataform people are using.

NB is the one class that's benefits the most on PC, because it requiere higher APM than other classes, you have to be very dynamic in PvP and keep your weaving all the time, even when you are defending, you have to keep those Bow Proccs up, also understand your surroundings, use los, etc, etc. Other classes are more straight forward and mistakes have less punishment.

Oh yeah I see your point mate even agree with you performance wise console ain’t close to pc.

Moose_Scout

Uryel wrote: »

My worst issue with Nighblades today is that the identity of the class has been slashed over and over for PvP balance reasons, watering it down to a point it's unrecognisable.

Best exemple ? The "assassination" skill line.

First skill : an execute abiulity, meaning it does decent damage on already wounded targets. Good enough, but not quite "assassination". Still, not a bad one.

Second skill : teleports, deal some damage, and utility. Allright, so far, so good.

Third skill : defense skill. In assassination. What the... ?

Fourth skill : debuff, mostly useful against strong enemies, in a group. Cool skill, one of the morphs would fit the theme of a berserker way more than that of an assassin, though, and overall nothing you'd expect from an assassin. Pretty cool skill for a support role, if the game had one.

Fifth : used to be a decent assassination-themed skill. Now, it's a very, very lame defense skill. The top skill of the assassination line is a defense skill.

And then there is the path of shadow or whatever it's called, changed long ago because it wasn't "unique" enough. can't have nightblades deal AoE heal and damage, that's not good. Templars can, though, but hey, now you get to start with a speed buff ONLY, until you morph it into something actually useful, either damage or heal.

I suppose I would do exactly just that if I wanted people to stop playing nightblades.

Moose_Scout wrote: »

...oh and a class that can't survive and has almost no defensive/healing abilities shouldn't have cast times!

This I don't get, however. If your nightblade can't survive, you're playing it wrong. That's basically the ONE thing they are good at now, since assassination is a joke, and their healing for others is meh. But you can steal life left, right and center.

Try stealing life as a Stamblade in PVP

Legendry

No pain points. I think the development team finally nailed the NB class and put it in their place.
Cloak is still is overperforming imo. Maybe ramp the cost? Make it 2 sec?

Deathlord92

Legendry wrote: »

No pain points. I think the development team finally nailed the NB class and put it in their place.
Cloak is still is overperforming imo. Maybe ramp the cost? Make it 2 sec?

Detect pots, camo hunter, mage light, jabs or any aoe really will break cloak. Cloak is the only skill in the game with hard counters just remembered gap closers break it to cloak on its own is a very bad skill against good players it’s not op but it is very good if used properly los or shade first and then cloak.

Chelo

Legendry wrote: »

No pain points. I think the development team finally nailed the NB class and put it in their place.
Cloak is still is overperforming imo. Maybe ramp the cost? Make it 2 sec?

Cloak is a noob killer skill, doesn't work against good players.

You get the "illusion" that cloak seems to be op, because most of the people playing this game are noobs (most of the people came from Skyrim and this is their first MMO, or are console players who doesn't have any experience with MMOs, either way, this is the first time playing this genre for most of the community, and they don't know EVERY MMO for the last 20 plus years have an Assassin/Rogue type class with access to invisibility).

SHOW

Over 1,000 comments (literally) in this thread and ZERO changes or dialogue from ZOS?

Where is the community engagement here guys?

Who is the NB class rep?
Do they still play anymore?
Do we need a new class rep?

I'm not trying to sound like a jerk, I'm honestly asking.

We need help here.

xI_The_Owl_Ix

Chelo wrote: »

Langeston wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

Maybe start an iformative thread on it in general discussion? The topic is interesting in its own right i should think. Im still unconvinced personally on the necessity of a burst heal regardless of platform. The best i can think is that performance differences might make altercations move and end faster on pc thus making more immediate healing capacity more desirable and necessary. Though I still think that could be accomplished by retuning the ones we already have available.

Is Healing Ward or Rapid Regeneration considered a burst heal? If something like either of those made their way into the NB toolkit I'd jump on it in a heartbeat. Or, just make a magicka morph of Vigor. The fact that NBs are pretty much forced to use a restoration staff on their back bar in PVP is a big disadvantage (among many.)

As far as the gameplay being different on consoles vs PC, it seems pretty clear to me that something is different. I'm sure KB/M has a lot to do with it — you're just capable of doing things that you can't do on a gamepad. (That may be why console players don't see streak as being as awful as PC players do — with a KB/M the sorc has more control, and it can be pretty OP.) I could also see cloak being more of a problem for players on console because moving the camera is less intuitive on a gamepad.

In any case, I can often tell by someone's post if they play on a console or PC, because console players sound like they're playing a completely different game than I am. (And I'm sure I sound the same way to them.)

Me too... The moment he other guy said NB healing was enough in the current meta, I knew he was playing on console, so I checked his profile and guess what... He was playing on Xbox.

I often can tell the plataform just by reading the comments because it feels we are playing different games...

Streak is nasty in PC because of high APM (actions per minute). A PC player can do like 4 different actions while streak, healing, shielding, stunning, changing streak direction like 3 or 4 times, in very few seconds.

But when a NB cloak, half of the actions break cloak, we can use Race Against Time while cloaking but every Resto Staff skill breaks cloak.

There are other examples but honestly I love when consoles players play on PC for the first time, it's like experiencing a whole new game haha.

Ah,yes PC elitism at its finest. Im a console player and I dont think cloak is OP or NB has enough self heals.
I also have the game on PC and the game doesnt feel different at all. If I could transfer my console account to PC, I would with no hesitation.
You should maybe shift your focus more on the NB toolkit then the platforms its being played on. And realize that bad opinions dont only come from console players. There are PC players who also think cloak is OP or NBs are OP in general. Your PC elitism wont help make the change to NBs you desire.

Also feel free to check my post history and tell me that I dont have a clue about NBs "because Im a console player"...

MindOfTheSwarm

Legendry wrote: »

No pain points. I think the development team finally nailed the NB class and put it in their place.
Cloak is still is overperforming imo. Maybe ramp the cost? Make it 2 sec?

2 seconds? No. That is just getting into ridiculous territory. Make it last forever, but once stealth is broken whether through taking an action or taking damage or being revealed, simply put it on a 6 second Cooldown. 6 seconds is ample time to punish an NB who engages at the wrong time. Cloak is currently something that allows NB's to constantly be in and out due to it being able to be spammed. The spammability of the skill is what causes so much frustration not the duration. By simply buffing the skill and adding a CD, you change the nature of the skill to something which fits inline with what Cloak should be. A skill that allows for sufficient set up without worrying about spamming it and allows for escape when things look dire. The cooldown would add an element of risk to the ability which would punish NB's that engage at the wrong time. Of course, the ability on activation could say have 2 seconds of 'Unrevealable' to prevent other players from spamming reveal abilities and allow a very small window of escape.

Cloak needs a complete rework, it is too spammy while at the same time too easy to be revealed.

SHOW

Don't let the user Legendary derail the discussion, [snip]

Dude literally said nerf cloak, buff streak lol

[snip] we are trying to have a productive discussion on how to make our mains feel less crappy to play.

[Edited to remove Baiting]

Chelo

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

No pain points. I think the development team finally nailed the NB class and put it in their place.
Cloak is still is overperforming imo. Maybe ramp the cost? Make it 2 sec?

2 seconds? No. That is just getting into ridiculous territory. Make it last forever, but once stealth is broken whether through taking an action or taking damage or being revealed, simply put it on a 6 second Cooldown. 6 seconds is ample time to punish an NB who engages at the wrong time. Cloak is currently something that allows NB's to constantly be in and out due to it being able to be spammed. The spammability of the skill is what causes so much frustration not the duration. By simply buffing the skill and adding a CD, you change the nature of the skill to something which fits inline with what Cloak should be. A skill that allows for sufficient set up without worrying about spamming it and allows for escape when things look dire. The cooldown would add an element of risk to the ability which would punish NB's that engage at the wrong time. Of course, the ability on activation could say have 2 seconds of 'Unrevealable' to prevent other players from spamming reveal abilities and allow a very small window of escape.

Cloak needs a complete rework, it is too spammy while at the same time too easy to be revealed.

The Game was made to not have CDs... It's what make it different from other MMOs, the combat system is more like a fighting game...

They will never add CDs to this game or they will have to rework the entire combat system, and it wont be any different from WoW or any other generic MMO.

Langeston

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

No pain points. I think the development team finally nailed the NB class and put it in their place.
Cloak is still is overperforming imo. Maybe ramp the cost? Make it 2 sec?

2 seconds? No. That is just getting into ridiculous territory. Make it last forever, but once stealth is broken whether through taking an action or taking damage or being revealed, simply put it on a 6 second Cooldown. 6 seconds is ample time to punish an NB who engages at the wrong time. Cloak is currently something that allows NB's to constantly be in and out due to it being able to be spammed. The spammability of the skill is what causes so much frustration not the duration. By simply buffing the skill and adding a CD, you change the nature of the skill to something which fits inline with what Cloak should be. A skill that allows for sufficient set up without worrying about spamming it and allows for escape when things look dire. The cooldown would add an element of risk to the ability which would punish NB's that engage at the wrong time. Of course, the ability on activation could say have 2 seconds of 'Unrevealable' to prevent other players from spamming reveal abilities and allow a very small window of escape.

Cloak needs a complete rework, it is too spammy while at the same time too easy to be revealed.

Hell no.

erio

No major defile or fracture on surprise attack

Cloak doesnt work and surprise attacks range is WAY to small

OWLTHEMAD

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

Legendry wrote: »

No pain points. I think the development team finally nailed the NB class and put it in their place.
Cloak is still is overperforming imo. Maybe ramp the cost? Make it 2 sec?

2 seconds? No. That is just getting into ridiculous territory. Make it last forever, but once stealth is broken whether through taking an action or taking damage or being revealed, simply put it on a 6 second Cooldown. 6 seconds is ample time to punish an NB who engages at the wrong time. Cloak is currently something that allows NB's to constantly be in and out due to it being able to be spammed. The spammability of the skill is what causes so much frustration not the duration. By simply buffing the skill and adding a CD, you change the nature of the skill to something which fits inline with what Cloak should be. A skill that allows for sufficient set up without worrying about spamming it and allows for escape when things look dire. The cooldown would add an element of risk to the ability which would punish NB's that engage at the wrong time. Of course, the ability on activation could say have 2 seconds of 'Unrevealable' to prevent other players from spamming reveal abilities and allow a very small window of escape.

Cloak needs a complete rework, it is too spammy while at the same time too easy to be revealed.

Sounds like youd be spending magicka to get slightly better version of the basic sneak mechanic.

The spammy nature of cloak IS what cloak should be. The class is balanced around this skill being our primary defense. Tons and tons of hard counters are available.

The skill you envision is an uneccesary nerf to the skill and would make the class virtually pointless.

People play the nightblade for cloak. In the past people tried the class to experiment with some of its other tools, but those are no longer unique yo the nightblade. In pve they are chosen by meta hoppers or those who like the QoL of cloak in pvp. They are played because people like cloak. Maybe shadow image, though with streak in its current state you wouldnt choose NB for shadow image alone.

It all revolves around cloak. To nerf it in such a hamfisted way would be tantamount to deleting the class.

You clearly either dont play the class or dont know how to play the class.

SteveS

Hey All,

Not sure it is the right thread but I have a magNB that is not working properly.
My skills are not casting, my LAs are not recognized and my bar swap is not recognized.
When I parse it is just simply not working. I have other characters and I have no problem with those and I also checked my mouse but it is working fine with other characters as well.
It feels like something is bottle necked and that makes my character unplayable.
Should I report this? Why is it applies only for 1 character?
Sometimes I have problems with other chars but with magblade it is like everything is bottle necked.

Czekoludek

SteveS wrote: »

Hey All,

Not sure it is the right thread but I have a magNB that is not working properly.
My skills are not casting, my LAs are not recognized and my bar swap is not recognized.
When I parse it is just simply not working. I have other characters and I have no problem with those and I also checked my mouse but it is working fine with other characters as well.
It feels like something is bottle necked and that makes my character unplayable.
Should I report this? Why is it applies only for 1 character?
Sometimes I have problems with other chars but with magblade it is like everything is bottle necked.

Lags and desyncs applies to all chars, Nb happened to be most affected by that. If I parse on magDK or stamcro, loosing some casts or La will hurt but loosing it on Nb will basically destroy my DPS.
Class cannot handle bad performance as good as other classes

SteveS

Czekoludek wrote: »

Lags and desyncs applies to all chars, Nb happened to be most affected by that. If I parse on magDK or stamcro, loosing some casts or La will hurt but loosing it on Nb will basically destroy my DPS.
Class cannot handle bad performance as good as other classes

Yeah, on my magblade the dps loss is unbearable. I just got the Master Architect set and wanted to try it out on the trial dummy and I was surprised bc usually I play with my magsorc or magden and they are just fine.

VoidCommander

The class’s best group utility of minor vulnerability is locked behind a skill that can’t be efficiently used in pve because it
1: places the ranged magblade too close to enemies
2: takes over 2 seconds to fully cast, making it eat two abilities casts every two seconds instead of one.
3: The ability itself doesn’t do enough damage nor applies the debuff for a long enough duration to make it worth running.

MindOfTheSwarm

VoidCommander wrote: »

The class’s best group utility of minor vulnerability is locked behind a skill that can’t be efficiently used in pve because it
1: places the ranged magblade too close to enemies
2: takes over 2 seconds to fully cast, making it eat two abilities casts every two seconds instead of one.
3: The ability itself doesn’t do enough damage nor applies the debuff for a long enough duration to make it worth running.

Sometimes it puts you behind the enemy too. Clunky ability.

OWLTHEMAD

VoidCommander wrote: »

The class’s best group utility of minor vulnerability is locked behind a skill that can’t be efficiently used in pve because it
1: places the ranged magblade too close to enemies
2: takes over 2 seconds to fully cast, making it eat two abilities casts every two seconds instead of one.
3: The ability itself doesn’t do enough damage nor applies the debuff for a long enough duration to make it worth running.

I actually really like this ability for pve. Lotus fan should be cast right after a bar swap and right before soul harvest and bow proc. Theres nothing wrong with playing magblade in melee range, and often enough the skill still gives you a decent enough gap.

I will agree the damage could still be higher, and i wish the group damage it gives would remain after primary target is dead, but its actually a decently strong aoe damage ability and the aoe minor vulnerability combined with wall of elements, path, and orbs, generates enough extra damage alone to justify the skill in add fights.

OWLTHEMAD

MindOfTheSwarm wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

The class’s best group utility of minor vulnerability is locked behind a skill that can’t be efficiently used in pve because it
1: places the ranged magblade too close to enemies
2: takes over 2 seconds to fully cast, making it eat two abilities casts every two seconds instead of one.
3: The ability itself doesn’t do enough damage nor applies the debuff for a long enough duration to make it worth running.

Sometimes it puts you behind the enemy too. Clunky ability.

Well, way back in the day it was supposed too. That was part of its pvp charm. You would gap close behind your target. This ability and shadow image made you very hard to hit if used correctly.

Dont know when they stopped that.

Chelo

VoidCommander wrote: »

The class’s best group utility of minor vulnerability is locked behind a skill that can’t be efficiently used in pve because it
1: places the ranged magblade too close to enemies
2: takes over 2 seconds to fully cast, making it eat two abilities casts every two seconds instead of one.
3: The ability itself doesn’t do enough damage nor applies the debuff for a long enough duration to make it worth running.

Its a PvP skill...

SHOW

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

The class’s best group utility of minor vulnerability is locked behind a skill that can’t be efficiently used in pve because it
1: places the ranged magblade too close to enemies
2: takes over 2 seconds to fully cast, making it eat two abilities casts every two seconds instead of one.
3: The ability itself doesn’t do enough damage nor applies the debuff for a long enough duration to make it worth running.

I actually really like this ability for pve. Lotus fan should be cast right after a bar swap and right before soul harvest and bow proc. Theres nothing wrong with playing magblade in melee range, and often enough the skill still gives you a decent enough gap.

I will agree the damage could still be higher, and i wish the group damage it gives would remain after primary target is dead, but its actually a decently strong aoe damage ability and the aoe minor vulnerability combined with wall of elements, path, and orbs, generates enough extra damage alone to justify the skill in add fights.

So, in summary... "I like the buff, but the skill implementation needs improvement"

FTFY

But in all honesty, that pretty much sums up NB as a class right now, the implementation is just too clunky.

OWLTHEMAD

SHOW wrote: »

OWLTHEMAD wrote: »

VoidCommander wrote: »

The class’s best group utility of minor vulnerability is locked behind a skill that can’t be efficiently used in pve because it
1: places the ranged magblade too close to enemies
2: takes over 2 seconds to fully cast, making it eat two abilities casts every two seconds instead of one.
3: The ability itself doesn’t do enough damage nor applies the debuff for a long enough duration to make it worth running.

I actually really like this ability for pve. Lotus fan should be cast right after a bar swap and right before soul harvest and bow proc. Theres nothing wrong with playing magblade in melee range, and often enough the skill still gives you a decent enough gap.

I will agree the damage could still be higher, and i wish the group damage it gives would remain after primary target is dead, but its actually a decently strong aoe damage ability and the aoe minor vulnerability combined with wall of elements, path, and orbs, generates enough extra damage alone to justify the skill in add fights.

So, in summary... "I like the buff, but the skill implementation needs improvement"

FTFY

But in all honesty, that pretty much sums up NB as a class right now, the implementation is just too clunky.

True for the most part, but still, the skill is far from useless in pve. For me its a must slot in dungeons, and trash fights in trials. Though a bit redundant in boss fights. The minor vulnerability is a ten second proc on anyone caught in the aoe regardless. If the damage did the same it would be completely solid.