[Class Rep] Nightblade Feedback Thread

Maulkin

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Maulkin , magblades, way more than stamblades, are more likely to stand outside of Combat Prayer, so the Minor Berserk uptime would definitely be lower on them. I would argue that if ZOS wanted to target stamblades, then they've missed and hit the wrong spec.

That's a very weird spin on things. That's not a disadvantage. It's a conscious choice to sit where they're sitting because it confers the biggest benefit, which is the survivability of being ranged and mobile with major exp. from Cripple. Nothing stops a magblade slotting Zaan and going in with all the other melee dps and getting near-100% uptime on Minor Berserk and the highest possible DPS.

Deathlord92

Legendry wrote: »

Just read the PTS patch notes 5.0.0 on class balance and it's totally great. Finally NB's got nerfed to the ground and forced to run Mark, as the cheesy class they are. Finally ZOS understood there is absolutely no reason why a NB could run solo in PVP. The only solo classes in PVP should be Sorc, DK, Templar, Warden and Necro. NB's can stay at the back of large groups and siege.

At last some sense was put into this game. Finally!!

Well you said it your self nb will be so weak it be unplayable unless u zerg no class should be tht weak thank you for pointing this out 😂

Deathlord92

I hope thy reconsider these dramatic class breaking nerfs on nb this will make nb unplayable especially magblade and me end my subscription and quit

ruff

*sigh* I just finished building my new nb char. At least I know now how good they were, before dumping them to dirt.

kaithuzar

Insco851 wrote: »

Did the class reps also die from the nerf hammer?

I’m pretty sure they’re all re-rolling necro.

kaithuzar

Maulkin wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Maulkin , magblades, way more than stamblades, are more likely to stand outside of Combat Prayer, so the Minor Berserk uptime would definitely be lower on them. I would argue that if ZOS wanted to target stamblades, then they've missed and hit the wrong spec.

Nothing stops a magblade slotting Zaan and going in with all the other melee dps and getting near-100% uptime on Minor Berserk and the highest possible DPS.

That’s incorrect,
The thing that stops us in pve dps is called “mechanics”. For the last 5+ years it’s been a known fact that ranged damage is preferred over melee due to their ability to move around in accordance with the mechanics & still keep dps up.

anatole1234

The Major defile and minor berserk I understand, but removing major fracture from surprise attack and the dark cloak nerf were uncalled for.

The main reason why people hate on NB is due to gankers which in fact have not been affected that much but buffed thanks to ambush 8% damage buff. Any good ganker runs camo hunter which already gives minor berserk and now throw in the extra 8% from ambush, faster snipes and incap instantly deleting 10% maxhp : looks like you nerfed the wrong side of the aisle. (at least no more major defile 100% uptime)

Deathlord92

Zos please reconsider nb nerfs and buff magblade healing give em a burst heal or something please just reconsider nb only class I like mainly because I love the rogue play style I have in previous elder scrolls games to please just reconsider these nerfs to nb 😔

Iskiab

Maulkin wrote: »

Iskiab wrote: »

Um, you don’t think these changes will effect pve? Are you guys nuts?

Read the Templar changes. They just got a buff and were already tied for the top magdps spot. Magblade nerf + MagTemplar buff = MagTemplar are the new top ranged dps class.

What dps nerf did magbaldes get?

Loss of minor berserk on grim focus. Not an issue on stacking fights, but on fights where you need to spread out it was advantage magblade.

Ra_ZieL

I bought this game because I liked the stealth system in this game. I like rogue classes. Rouges can kill fast but also they can be killed fast too. This is their uniqueness in most games
I like this class. Maybe NB must be nerfed but this is too much
Minor Berserk
Minor Endurance
Major Fracture
Major Defile
Nerf Snipe. Snipe is the most reason why all hates nightblades in PVP.
Also in your running to nerf stamblade you nerf mageblade, even now they don't feel good in PVP.
I'm playing for 2 years and this my first post here because this patch is very disappointed me

kaithuzar

At this point I don’t even want the healing, I want the ability to remove dots & purge myself like necro can.
Or at least the ability to “SIPHON” the next heal my opponent would’ve taken...cough cough siphoning tree..cough cough #MissedOpportunities

Deathlord92

Ra_ZieL wrote: »

I bought this game because I liked the stealth system in this game. I like rogue classes. Rouges can kill fast but also they can be killed fast too. This is their uniqueness in most games
I like this class. Maybe NB must be nerfed but this is too much
Minor Berserk
Minor Endurance
Major Fracture
Major Defile
Nerf Snipe. Snipe is the most reason why all hates nightblades in PVP.
Also in your running to nerf stamblade you nerf mageblade, even now they don't feel good in PVP.
I'm playing for 2 years and this my first post here because this patch is very disappointed me

I feel ya m8 nb all I ever played and ever will play let’s hope thy listen 😔

Heresyall

Magblade is decent this patch(PVE BG CYRO),because of the new racial passives.I think people are over reacting on the dmg nerf when magblade is going to have acces to shields ( best defense ig atm) cloak and snare immunity. Also, Soul Harvest remains unchanged.

jlb1705

As a mostly solo player who mains a stamblade and doesn't give a squirt about getting into trials groups, I hate these changes. When I do play group content I do pugs, and in the dungeon finder you have to BYOB (bring your own buffs) because you never know who you'll be stuck with. I don't have the time or the desire to make in-game friends and rely on pre-mades to get the capabilities that I used to have built-in on my character.

That said, I've been spending more time playing my magplar lately. It started off with farming skill points to support crafting, then I used him to farm undaunted keys, and the more I played him the more I found that I started enjoying it more than playing my stamblade. I came to realize that it mostly came down to not having to manage Relentless Focus when I play that character. That skill has always been PITA, but it at least came with benefits that made it worth the grief. Going forward though, it just won't be worth the trouble for me.

After the initial disappointment and frustration from reading the patch notes, I had a thought. What if I built my stamblade to play more like my magplar? What would that look like, and how would feel to play it? My magplar rotation is straightforward, responsive, and feels satisfying to play. I've spent some time on the UESP build editor tonight and have a stamblade build that I want to experiment with. I dumped Relentless Focus and Surprise Attack and am going to see what happens when I get a little weird with my skill selection.

If that doesn't work, maybe I'll park my stamblade for a while or maybe I'll finally unseal my copy of RDR2.

Datthaw

This is supposed to be the thread where zos and the class reps communicate with us

When is the last time you have seen any of them comment?

What a joke

But hey we have discord

Go to discord and it's nothing but people sucking up to kena and talking about worthless crap.

Another joke

Zos like your soooooo bad at balance and @NightbladeMechanics you're supposed to be the magnb guru man, what gives, these changes are horrid, and what makes it worse is I heard you say in guild chat "I'm giving up on melee magnb"

This whole thing is pathetic

Datthaw

Heresyall wrote: »

Magblade is decent this patch(PVE BG CYRO),because of the new racial passives.I think people are over reacting on the dmg nerf when magblade is going to have acces to shields ( best defense ig atm) cloak and snare immunity. Also, Soul Harvest remains unchanged.

Magnb is...OK I guess in no cp, but once you get into high mmr bgs with nothing but sorcs dks and wardens our viability falls off fast.

Deathlord92

Again please zos don’t butcher stamblade and give magblade better survive ability perhaps give malevolent offering a burst heal for caster or someone in mentioned on my post turning mirage into a blood shield giving the magblade heals on being hit personally I love this idea don’t butcher a loved class by many because few cry babies litter forums with bs 🙏

Fiktius

I've been testing out these changes in PTS with my mag blade and brought my character into environment, where I play most:
Cyrodiil. There I did several kind of testings regarding Merciless Resolve changes and looked for several encounters of different classes with different playstyles.After all of this testing it does not matter from which perspective I look at PTS version of Merciless resolve, this new way how the skill functions is very bad:

Perspective 1: Ranged Magicka Nightblade playstyle

This is the one which I'm familiar with, I've been doing solo for years as mag NB with ranged attacks.
This playstyle supports the opportunity of staying at range and avoiding closer range fights by pushing melee characters back to distance with fire reach, meanwhile I have opportunity fight against other ranged specs like Magicka Sorcerers, which are often excellent in keeping their distance. Especially on these fights against ranged opponents that Assassin's will bow heal was non-existant. Also the bow proc is so LOUD and the projectile is so SLOW!
In PTS it felt like ringing the doorbell of opponent: "HEY YOU THERE! Dodge this projectile or let me heal a bit and damage you!!"
Not to mention that we have to spend resources to cast it just in order to have a possibility to proc the bow with light attacks.
That makes this skill borderline almost useless. Too bad the burst is still needed in order to actually combo skills and kill competitive opponent, so right now I have love/hate relationship with Merciless. I hate it, but I need it.

Perspective 2: Short range Magicka Nightblade playstyle

This is the playstyle which I don't personally play, but I do know how technically such playstyle functions.
Melee Nightblades takes a giant risk in order to go close to their enemies, because mBlade defensive kit is not too wonderful:
Healing is heavily HoT related and if enemies gives a lot pressure with burst, struggles are getting real.
(Mag blades are at most popular builds tied to light armor shield and unreliable healing ward, which they may not get the ward when they need it and it might go to ally instead.)
Before Dark Cloack was a candidate to cover some lack in survival tool kit, but even that skill went towards chopping block.
Why in earth would you make 7 metres range requirement to bow proc heal, if you will not give proper defensive tool kit to survive at close range? I know that some slippery playstyles rely on cloack & shade for avoiding damage, but good luck for any Nightblade when they get taken out of cloack by potions/Aoes.

How this situation could be changed to be better then?

- Give additional bonus to Merciless resolve, which both - short and long range - playstyles could use.
Assassin's Will is important part of bursting enemies on both playstyles, so for build variety sake make Merciless more viable for both types, without forcing us to walk into fossilize range and risk our heal/damage being entirely missed by dodging opponent. Replacement buff candidates which I liked are Major Sorcery and/or Major Prophecy. By this way both playstyles would benefit and build variety would not suffer. Entropy is often clunky to use and can't be activated in cloack without revealing ourselves, so it would be wonderful if we could buff up before we start the fight. That's why Major Prophecy/Major Sorcery for example would be fantastic due it would free us some bar space, so we could slot something else what we would need.

- Let us slot more class skills without gimping our builds seriously. Personally I think it would be giant improvement in magblade survival, if we could get a class shield which would return HP back to us, while the shield is being damaged.
This would give us useful reliable shield which we get every time. This change alone would improve build variety and let us select other weapons outside of restoration staff pigeonhole.

- And if all these feedback above will go to deaf ears, please at least revert the Major Protection removal from Light's Champion restoration staff ultimate. If we are so badly tied on hugging restoration staves, at least give us ultimate which can help us to remain alive. That nerf was totally uncalled for.

Deathlord92

Fiktius wrote: »

I've been testing out these changes in PTS with my mag blade and brought my character into environment, where I play most:
Cyrodiil. There I did several kind of testings regarding Merciless Resolve changes and looked for several encounters of different classes with different playstyles.After all of this testing it does not matter from which perspective I look at PTS version of Merciless resolve, this new way how the skill functions is very bad, no matter from which perspective I view at it:

Perspective 1: Ranged Magicka Nightblade playstyle

This is the one which I'm familiar with, I've been doing solo for years as mag NB with ranged attacks.
This playstyle supports the opportunity of staying at range and avoiding closer range fights by pushing melee characters back to distance with fire reach, meanwhile I have opportunity fight against other ranged specs like Magicka Sorcerers, which are often excellent in keeping their distance. Especially on these fights against ranged opponents that Assassin's will bow heal was non-existant. Also the bow proc is so LOUD and the projectile is so SLOW!
In PTS it felt like ringing the doorbell of opponent: "HEY YOU THERE! Dodge this projectile or let me heal a bit and damage you!!"
Not to mention that we have to spend resources to cast it just in order to have a possibility to proc the bow with light attacks.
That makes this skill borderline almost useless. Too bad the burst is still needed in order to actually combo skills and kill competitive opponent, so right now I have love/hate relationship with Merciless. I hate it, but I need it.

Perspective 2: Short range Magicka Nightblade playstyle

This is the playstyle which I don't personally play, but I do know how technically such playstyle functions.
Melee Nightblades takes a giant risk in order to go close to their enemies, because mBlade defensive kit is not too wonderful:
Healing is heavily HoT related and if enemies gives a lot pressure with burst, struggles are getting real.
(Mag blades are at most popular builds tied to light armor shield and unreliable healing ward, which they may not get the ward when they need it and it might go to ally instead.)
Before Dark Cloack was a candidate to cover some lack in survival tool kit, but even that skill went towards chopping block.
Why in earth would you make 7 metres range requirement to bow proc heal, if you will not give proper defensive tool kit to survive at close range? I know that some slippery playstyles rely on cloack & shade for avoiding damage, but good luck for any Nightblade when they get taken out of cloack by potions/Aoes.

How this situation could be changed to be better then?

- Give additional bonus to Merciless resolve, which both ranged playstyles could use.
Assassin's Will is important part of bursting enemies on both playstyles, so for build variety sake make Merciless more viable for both types, without forcing us to walk into fossilize range and risk our heal/damage being entirely missed by dodging opponent. Replacement buff candidates which I liked are Major Sorcery and/or Major Prophecy. By this way both playstyles would benefit and build variety would not suffer. Entropy is often clunky to use and can't be activated in cloack without revealing ourselves, so it would be wonderful if we could buff up before we start the fight. That's why Major Prophecy/Major Sorcery for example would be fantastic due it would free us some bar space, so we could slot something else what we would need.

- Let us slot more class skills without gimping our builds seriously. Personally I think it would be giant improvement in magblade survival, if we could get a class shield which would return HP back to us, while the shield is being damaged.
This would give us useful reliable shield which we get every time. This change alone would improve build variety and let us select other weapons outside of restoration staff pigeonhole.

- And if all these feedback above will go to deaf ears, please at least revert the Major Protection removal from Light's Champion restoration staff ultimate. If we are so badly tied on hugging restoration staves, at least give us ultimate which can help us to remain alive. That nerf was totally uncalled for.

I feel ya m8 I love nb to I say nb because I love both magblade and stamblade I personally believe thy should make mirage a blood shield and return health to us when being hit and I love your idea with merciless resolve give major sorcery a spot on idea this would give me hope and I wouldn’t be so salty about the nerfs

Maulkin

Datthaw wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Magblade is decent this patch(PVE BG CYRO),because of the new racial passives.I think people are over reacting on the dmg nerf when magblade is going to have acces to shields ( best defense ig atm) cloak and snare immunity. Also, Soul Harvest remains unchanged.

Magnb is...OK I guess in no cp, but once you get into high mmr bgs with nothing but sorcs dks and wardens our viability falls off fast.

I don't do badly at all in high MMR BGs and I'm not the best magblade around or anything.

The only problem I find in those BGs is the difficulty in escaping the Permafrost/Frost Blockade/Talons AoE [snip] fest unless I had the foresight to put out a Shade and stay within distance to it. And even then snare post teleport could keep you from actually surviving. The single target pressure otherwise is very strong.

RAT will make a huge difference towards solving the problems magblades face in those fights. And also Sap Essence with the dmg buff becomes an insanely strong tool in premade BGs. You do a lot of a AOE dmg with good heals on top.

If they sort out the Merciless pre-cast and also break the link beween Swallow/Funnel heal and the damage caused then we'll be golden.

[edited for profanity bypass]

Yhoden

Deathlord92 wrote: »

Fiktius wrote: »

I've been testing out these changes in PTS with my mag blade and brought my character into environment, where I play most:
Cyrodiil. There I did several kind of testings regarding Merciless Resolve changes and looked for several encounters of different classes with different playstyles.After all of this testing it does not matter from which perspective I look at PTS version of Merciless resolve, this new way how the skill functions is very bad, no matter from which perspective I view at it:

Perspective 1: Ranged Magicka Nightblade playstyle

This is the one which I'm familiar with, I've been doing solo for years as mag NB with ranged attacks.
This playstyle supports the opportunity of staying at range and avoiding closer range fights by pushing melee characters back to distance with fire reach, meanwhile I have opportunity fight against other ranged specs like Magicka Sorcerers, which are often excellent in keeping their distance. Especially on these fights against ranged opponents that Assassin's will bow heal was non-existant. Also the bow proc is so LOUD and the projectile is so SLOW!
In PTS it felt like ringing the doorbell of opponent: "HEY YOU THERE! Dodge this projectile or let me heal a bit and damage you!!"
Not to mention that we have to spend resources to cast it just in order to have a possibility to proc the bow with light attacks.
That makes this skill borderline almost useless. Too bad the burst is still needed in order to actually combo skills and kill competitive opponent, so right now I have love/hate relationship with Merciless. I hate it, but I need it.

Perspective 2: Short range Magicka Nightblade playstyle

This is the playstyle which I don't personally play, but I do know how technically such playstyle functions.
Melee Nightblades takes a giant risk in order to go close to their enemies, because mBlade defensive kit is not too wonderful:
Healing is heavily HoT related and if enemies gives a lot pressure with burst, struggles are getting real.
(Mag blades are at most popular builds tied to light armor shield and unreliable healing ward, which they may not get the ward when they need it and it might go to ally instead.)
Before Dark Cloack was a candidate to cover some lack in survival tool kit, but even that skill went towards chopping block.
Why in earth would you make 7 metres range requirement to bow proc heal, if you will not give proper defensive tool kit to survive at close range? I know that some slippery playstyles rely on cloack & shade for avoiding damage, but good luck for any Nightblade when they get taken out of cloack by potions/Aoes.

How this situation could be changed to be better then?

- Give additional bonus to Merciless resolve, which both ranged playstyles could use.
Assassin's Will is important part of bursting enemies on both playstyles, so for build variety sake make Merciless more viable for both types, without forcing us to walk into fossilize range and risk our heal/damage being entirely missed by dodging opponent. Replacement buff candidates which I liked are Major Sorcery and/or Major Prophecy. By this way both playstyles would benefit and build variety would not suffer. Entropy is often clunky to use and can't be activated in cloack without revealing ourselves, so it would be wonderful if we could buff up before we start the fight. That's why Major Prophecy/Major Sorcery for example would be fantastic due it would free us some bar space, so we could slot something else what we would need.

- Let us slot more class skills without gimping our builds seriously. Personally I think it would be giant improvement in magblade survival, if we could get a class shield which would return HP back to us, while the shield is being damaged.
This would give us useful reliable shield which we get every time. This change alone would improve build variety and let us select other weapons outside of restoration staff pigeonhole.

- And if all these feedback above will go to deaf ears, please at least revert the Major Protection removal from Light's Champion restoration staff ultimate. If we are so badly tied on hugging restoration staves, at least give us ultimate which can help us to remain alive. That nerf was totally uncalled for.

I feel ya m8 I love nb to I say nb because I love both magblade and stamblade I personally believe thy should make mirage a blood shield and return health to us when being hit and I love your idea with merciless resolve give major sorcery a spot on idea this would give me hope and I wouldn’t be so salty about the nerfs

Yep, we been trying to push this idea for awhile now. would benefit us magblades greatly. rather than having a heal for merciless resolve having major sorcery buff is more useful. Also changing mirage morph to a blood shield would promote variety. I just hope the devs take note of this idea.

Victor_Blade

Actually, you can fix merciless resolve tbh. Just add minor force to it instead of any other buff. It would make sense class identity wise since nightblades are high crit classes and that crit damage buff will help magblades a lot. Also if you could reduce the heal buff to 30% but with range then it'll be a blessing. Please don't kill an already dead class that nobody plays cos it's literally useless in pvp.

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Iskiab

Datthaw wrote: »

Heresyall wrote: »

Magblade is decent this patch(PVE BG CYRO),because of the new racial passives.I think people are over reacting on the dmg nerf when magblade is going to have acces to shields ( best defense ig atm) cloak and snare immunity. Also, Soul Harvest remains unchanged.

Magnb is...OK I guess in no cp, but once you get into high mmr bgs with nothing but sorcs dks and wardens our viability falls off fast.

Unless you switch to healing yes.

irstarkey57

I mean….where do you even begin for magicka NB. Pvp wise. They are non existent in cyro anymore. Everything pulls you out of stealth, no burst heal. It's just really not worth playing in PVP. Some of the changes made to stamblade seem good although it seems they will be more reliant on casting more magicka abilities besides cloak, which will be troublesome for sure. But yea, surprise attack was overloaded as a spammable. Incap, meh, I thought It was in a decent spot.

irstarkey57

bardx86 wrote: »

1. Cloak in pvp is to strong, not really much risk in playing the class.
2. Incap has to low of a cost and to many effects. It would be nice if we had a bit longer rotation as spamming2 skills in pvp gets old.

Cloak is weak AF imo. Everything pulls them out of stealth. I feel bad for NB's. they cloak and I just laugh. detect pot, spin to win, volatile armor, shalks, hurricane, ritual. I mean...when can they cloak?

Jabbs_Giggity

irstarkey57 wrote: »

bardx86 wrote: »

1. Cloak in pvp is to strong, not really much risk in playing the class.
2. Incap has to low of a cost and to many effects. It would be nice if we had a bit longer rotation as spamming2 skills in pvp gets old.

Cloak is weak AF imo. Everything pulls them out of stealth. I feel bad for NB's. they cloak and I just laugh. detect pot, spin to win, volatile armor, shalks, hurricane, ritual.

I mean...when can they cloak?

Basically when they are getting ready to gank and/or when they Snipe-Cloak-Snipe-Cloak-Snipe-Cloak

John_Falstaff

Maulkin wrote: »

John_Falstaff wrote: »

@Maulkin , magblades, way more than stamblades, are more likely to stand outside of Combat Prayer, so the Minor Berserk uptime would definitely be lower on them. I would argue that if ZOS wanted to target stamblades, then they've missed and hit the wrong spec.

That's a very weird spin on things. That's not a disadvantage. It's a conscious choice to sit where they're sitting because it confers the biggest benefit, which is the survivability of being ranged and mobile with major exp. from Cripple. Nothing stops a magblade slotting Zaan and going in with all the other melee dps and getting near-100% uptime on Minor Berserk and the highest possible DPS.

I hope you've given some thoughts to the notion that now other magicka specs deal competitive damage without having to be in melee range (which is a show-stopper in some content) and without bothersome rotation like magblades have. Magblade meta wasn't about damage as much as it was about off-healing, and it's long gone after it was nerfed. Sure any magicka can stand in melee range. But not every magicka needs to. If you have a melee slot, why would you even consider filling it with magblade when you can take a stamblade/stamden (or, after Elsweyr, stam necro)?

Deathlord92

I know I already said it but it’s important to us magblades especially with the changes coming please give magblades a class shield and self heal perhaps making mirage a blood shield tht heals the magblade on being hit and making malevolent offering heal the caster burst heal or hot please please 🙏

Deathlord92

I was also thinking maybe make debilitate do poison damage since magblade gt cripple why not stamblade have debilitate but this would be instead of one of there current changes like maybe get rid stupid heal on relentless let us keep minor endurance on it instead etc just an idea

kaithuzar

My envisionment of how I see this going...

NB_Community: We need buffs, we’re too weak. Gives us something for our initial merciless cast. Give us our dark cloak healing back. Give us more dots & higher damage.

ZOS: We’ve heard you & decided to give cripple minor magicka steal.

NB_Community:
...WTF....
We asked for damage & healing, we’re trash w/out it!

ZOS:
These guys are never happy, only knowing how to whine & complain.

Class_Rep:
ZOS has a long term vision & my hands are tied.