[Dragonknight] Molten Weapon and its morphs

Bodycounter

Hello community,

until now i really liked Molten Weapon and especially its morph Molten Armanents. But with the upcoming changes to Empower and the scalings to light/heavy attacks, the ability feels a bit outdated in my opinion. The first morph adds Major Brutality which can be acquired from various better sources. The second morph adds 40% damage to fully-charged heavy attacks.

Critic on the first morph:
Its a nice to have that the ability buffs the whole group, but most people run a form of Sorcery/Brutality anyway. This morph feels unspecial in what its doing after activation. In my opinion this should become a stamina-centric morph which substitutes an interesting passive for Major Sorcery. For example: Empowered light attacks add minor fracture to your target.

Critic on the second morph:
This morph was really interesting until now, because it made fully-charged heavy attacks of the Dragonknight hit really hard.it was still awkward to use it on a stamina character, because it only adds Major Sorcery. On top of that light attack weaving will outclass heavy attacks after the PTS changes —> This morph should increase the overall damage of an autoattack scaling with the charge time. For example: 20% on light attacks scaling up to 40% for fully-charged heavy attacks.

Any other opinion from Dragonknight players?

RoyJade

Seeing the second morph getting bonus to light attack make sense, I like that.

For the stamina morph, I keep asking that it would transform all physical attack (or at least single target one) from the caster to poison damage ; along with a buff to world in ruin to affect all fire/poison damage (including single target and dots) as the energized passive from sorc and the piercing cold passive from warden does, it would allow stamDK to use any generic spammable in the game but while adding their own flavor.

Bodycounter

Thanks for your suggestion. I think a stamina morph for this ability has many options to give (stamina) Dragonknights a bit of unique idendity that they really lack at the moment.

There may be a few other abilities in the game which have to be adjusted after the changes to empower and the attack scalings, but Molten Weapons seems to be one of the urgent ones.

Jeezye

Really like the idea of switching the second morph to light attack damage with scaling. Im not sure though if this would buff DKs dps by too much in PvE since Im mainly a PvP player.

I'd also like to use one of the morphs reliably on a stamdk, which to date wasn't worth it. Adding something to the first one to give Stamdks some identity and love would be awesome, however I can't really think of a proper buff yet. Since DK is the tanking class of the game (yes ZOS', not my opinion), something defensive/ utility would match, to use on a tank as well. Keep major sorcery and savagery for group buff, but add like minor vitality/ protection after each light attack so it encourages people to drop permablock.

Just some thoughts...

Ragnarock41

molten weapons is completely inferior compared to surge,netch etc. The idea of giving your group sorcery/brutality is just laughable at best, which is why literally nobody uses the first morph.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

I liked that it buffed fully charged heavy attacks a lot. It was the center piece to my build along with empower from wrecking blow. I enjoyed a reason to heavy attack weave because getting the timing perfect on the heavy attack was skillful as well as fun because of the huge numbers. With the Nerfs to both and the Los of value in molten armaments as a result, I'll probably just let me 2h dk build dreams die.

LA weaving doesn't interest me in the least. A 2h is supposed to be a slow lumbering unstoppable Force that murders things if you manage to hit, like in dark souls or monster hunter. In pve, this translates to slow speed with hugenumbers in my mind. They've effectively made that impossible.

mr_wazzabi

Bodycounter wrote: »

Hello community,

until now i really liked Molten Weapon and especially its morph Molten Armanents. But with the upcoming changes to Empower and the scalings to light/heavy attacks, the ability feels a bit outdated in my opinion. The first morph adds Major Brutality which can be acquired from various better sources. The second morph adds 40% damage to fully-charged heavy attacks.

Critic on the first morph:
Its a nice to have that the ability buffs the whole group, but most people run a form of Sorcery/Brutality anyway. This morph feels unspecial in what its doing after activation. In my opinion this should become a stamina-centric morph which substitutes an interesting passive for Major Sorcery. For example: Empowered light attacks add minor fracture to your target.

Critic on the second morph:
This morph was really interesting until now, because it made fully-charged heavy attacks of the Dragonknight hit really hard.it was still awkward to use it on a stamina character, because it only adds Major Sorcery. On top of that light attack weaving will outclass heavy attacks after the PTS changes —> This morph should increase the overall damage of an autoattack scaling with the charge time. For example: 20% on light attacks scaling up to 40% for fully-charged heavy attacks.

Any other opinion from Dragonknight players?

No to changing the second morph. It allows heavy attack builds on dk to be competitive.

This heavy attack lightning staff build by @Masel92 uses molten armaments in its current form.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/309550/elemental-fury-pve-heavy-attack-dk-build-summerset-ready/p1

Bobak

A good way to make the first morph more useful would be changing to have minor berserk as only a very few sources actually give minor berserk out.
have something like this:

Igneous Weapons
Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Minor Berserk, increasing your damage done by 8%
Morph Effect: You and your allies gain Minor Berserk, increasing your damage done by 8%.
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 28 Meters
Duration: 15 Seconds
Cost: 2897 stamina

This would give that unique feel to stamina DK, and with the other morph just adding extra damage with light attacks would be good as well.

something simple e.g.:
Molten Armaments
Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Sorcery, increasing your Spell Damage by 20% for 33 seconds.|Your own damage with fully-charged Heavy Attacks is increased by 40% and Light Attacks is increased by 5% while active.
Morph Effect: Your own damage with fully-charged Heavy Attacks and light attacks is increased.

Both of these can definitely be made better

Bodycounter

To sum the current statements up:

1. Everyone thinks that the first morph „Igneous Weapons“ is outdated and outshined by other abilities. Zenimax should definitely add some flavour to this morph. Suggestions have been: Add minor Brutality/Fracture on empowered attacks (or as a group buff) or the morph should convert (direct) damage into poison damage.

2. Most people liked my suggestion to also improve the damage of light attacks. I don‘t understand Mr_Wazzabis critic, because my suggested change would still allow for his posted build and would also open up for light attack weaving builds, that will become meta with Summerset.

Another thing that i mentioned in other threads: Why does Empower only increase the damage of light attacks? It further widens the gap for classes/builds that rely on heavy attacks for sustain. Most builds are going to feel and play out pretty much the same now —> Empower should increase the damage of the next heavy attack (~20%) too. Obviously, the morph „Molten Armaments“ wouldn‘t need my suggested buff then.

RoyJade

With the change of 4.0.2, molten armament and his buff to heavy attack only may seem fine again. Light attack deals now less damage and while heavy are being nerfed also, it's not as much as light. More testing are needed.

Empower doesn't buff heavy because a heavy attack on stealth in pvp can lead to a one second gank kill. Molten armaments already can do that but the cast unstealth you, so it's hard to do (you've to use it well hidden then move next to your target). Empower, on the other side, is really easy to get, and we all know what an empowered stealth engage means in pvp.
That's also one of the reason 2H heavy has been nerfed, even if the downside are dramatic in pve.

Twohothardware

They should change Armaments back to the way it used to be where it gave increased damage to low health targets. This would revitalize the class, especially Stamina DK, in both PvE and PvP. StamDK is lacking damage in PvP against classes like Stam Warden and StamSorc and has no other real advantage because you can tank just as well and better on Warden while still dishing out damage.

Bodycounter

Then Zenmix should fix stealth ganks in PvP and not bend the rest of the whole game around it.

Didn‘t read the current changes when i wrote the lasr post. Will do now.

RoyJade

Twohothardware wrote: »

They should change Armaments back to the way it used to be where it gave increased damage to low health targets. This would revitalize the class, especially Stamina DK, in both PvE and PvP. StamDK is lacking damage in PvP against classes like Stam Warden and StamSorc and has no other real advantage because you can tank just as well and better on Warden while still dishing out damage.

I would rather see a better change on molten weapons' both morph and see elder dragon's passive changed for 12-25% increased dot damage against target behind 30% health.
Make Dk good with dot even in pvp. It's the dot and continuous pressure class after all (or it should be, and has been long before).

mr_wazzabi

Bodycounter wrote: »

To sum the current statements up:

1. Everyone thinks that the first morph „Igneous Weapons“ is outdated and outshined by other abilities. Zenimax should definitely add some flavour to this morph. Suggestions have been: Add minor Brutality/Fracture on empowered attacks (or as a group buff) or the morph should convert (direct) damage into poison damage.

2. Most people liked my suggestion to also improve the damage of light attacks. I don‘t understand Mr_Wazzabis critic, because my suggested change would still allow for his posted build and would also open up for light attack weaving builds, that will become meta with Summerset.

Another thing that i mentioned in other threads: Why does Empower only increase the damage of light attacks? It further widens the gap for classes/builds that rely on heavy attacks for sustain. Most builds are going to feel and play out pretty much the same now —> Empower should increase the damage of the next heavy attack (~20%) too. Obviously, the morph „Molten Armaments“ wouldn‘t need my suggested buff then.

I misread your comment hehe. Yes I agree with it buffing both light and heavy attacks

Bodycounter

RoyJade wrote: »

I would rather see a better change on molten weapons' both morph and see elder dragon's passive changed for 12-25% increased dot damage against target behind 30% health.
Make Dk good with dot even in pvp. It's the dot and continuous pressure class after all (or it should be, and has been long before).

Buffing DoT damage of the Dragonknight for low health targets would be a nice idea, but too many sudden changes are hard to balance. But since DK has no inherent form of execute, it seems reasonable to think about a passive like mentioned in the future progress.

seitekisaki

Would it be cool if they got rid of the whole heavy thing? Since that makes no sense anymore, and put in light attack execute. Reverse of what they had long ago heavy attack execute.

b.bredfeldtub17_ESO

Molten armaments only interacting with heavy attacks is the entire reason I rolled a DK. It seemed like a good natural way to try and maximize heavy attacks so I could rely on them and weave with WB. Getting rid of it, changing it to not be HA exclusive, etc, would make me essentially shelve my dk and probably the game since 2h in general is getting unnecessary nerfs.

Bodycounter

seitekisaki wrote: »

Would it be cool if they got rid of the whole heavy thing? Since that makes no sense anymore, and put in light attack execute. Reverse of what they had long ago heavy attack execute.

Definitely not. As i said me personally and other people like the fact, that the Dragonknight is the only character with the ability to do fully-charged heavy attacks as a source of burst damage and ressource management. In PvP it's high risk though, because it is a telegraphed move especially on a fire staff.

This thread was about two things: Molten Armaments should allow for heavy and light attack weaving, because other sources like Entropy are more versatile (because of Max Magicka and Mage Guild passives) and therefore used more frequently. I only suggest this change because Zenimax is emphazising on light attacks with the next update so much. That's why Entropy will become even stronger in comparison, if Molten Armaments does not get adjusted (Sorcerer's armor was adjusted too for example.)

Secondly the morph "Igneous Weapons" is plain bad and boring in its current form and should become a stamina-centric morph.

EvilCroc

We need Corrosive Weapons with green visual effect on it.

profundidob16_ESO

Bobak wrote: »

A good way to make the first morph more useful would be changing to have minor berserk as only a very few sources actually give minor berserk out.
have something like this:

Igneous Weapons
Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Minor Berserk, increasing your damage done by 8%
Morph Effect: You and your allies gain Minor Berserk, increasing your damage done by 8%.
Cast Time: Instant
Target: Area
Radius: 28 Meters
Duration: 15 Seconds
Cost: 2897 stamina

This would give that unique feel to stamina DK, and with the other morph just adding extra damage with light attacks would be good as well.

something simple e.g.:
Molten Armaments
Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Sorcery, increasing your Spell Damage by 20% for 33 seconds.|Your own damage with fully-charged Heavy Attacks is increased by 40% and Light Attacks is increased by 5% while active.
Morph Effect: Your own damage with fully-charged Heavy Attacks and light attacks is increased.

Both of these can definitely be made better

agreed. This spell will be the first to go off my bar unless they change it

Asardes

I really like the idea of adding a special effect. If so make it symmetrical.

Venomous Weapons:
Grants Major Brutality. Dip your weapon in venom, causing them to do poison damage when damaging an enemy with light or heavy attacks, scaling on the duration of the attack up to a maximum of [X]. This effect can occur every 4s.

Molten Armaments:
Grants Major Sorcery. Imbue your weapons with molten metal, causing them to do flame damage every time when damaging an enemy with light or heavy attacks, scaling on the duration of the attack up to a maximum of [X]. This effect can occur every 4s.

With a cooldown of 4s every 3rd of 4th LA or every 2nd HA will apply the bonus damage.

ghastley

mr_wazzabi wrote: »

No to changing the second morph. It allows heavy attack builds on dk to be competitive.

Did I read this right? Your only objection is that a build other your own should not be competitive?

seitekisaki

Am I the only one that thinks even with the heavy attack buff heavy attack is abysmal, and it should be changed to some sort of light attack buff on a class that has almost no burst? Also light attacks are a big part of dps as well wouldn't that be nice if your tank buffed everyone's lights? It synergies too. Am I just wrong someone tell me.

Orimas

Here is my fix for molten weapons and it's morphs.

Molten weapons:
Molten Weapons Instant Area–28 meters
30 seconds 4320 Magicka
Duration: [27 / 28 / 29 / 30] seconds.

Charge you and your allies' weapons with volcanic power to gain Major Sorcery and Major Brutality increasing your Spell Damage and Weapon Damage by 20% for [27 / 28 / 29 / 30] seconds.
Additionally you increase the damage of your light and heavy attcks on low health targets by x% below x%

Morphs

Igneous Weapons:
See above +
Your Magicka heavy attack damage is increased by 40% and your magicka light and heavy attacks apply the burning status effect.

Venomous Weapons:
See above +
Your Stamina heavy attack damage is increased by 40% and your stamina light and heavy attacks
apply the poisoned status effect.

Ability and morphs improved. This brings DK an execute finally and it ties in with the new combustion change to guarantee improved resource management. I believe this will help bring All DK to a more competive level.

seitekisaki

Orimas wrote: »

Ability and morphs improved. This brings DK an execute finally and it ties in with the new combustion change to guarantee improved resource management. I believe this will help bring All DK to a more competive level.

I'd back that.

Orimas

seitekisaki wrote: »

Orimas wrote: »

Ability and morphs improved. This brings DK an execute finally and it ties in with the new combustion change to guarantee improved resource management. I believe this will help bring All DK to a more competive level.

I'd back that.

Yeah I think it's an all around improvement. It probably wouldn't even have to be a big increase as an execute. Even a small increase of 20% on low health targets would be a big improvement and close the gap a bit. I can't remember how much the original execute for light attacks that was built in to the skill was for but I don't think it was much higher than that.

Didaco

I just hope they'll never change the +40% added damage to heavy attacks.

TrinityBreaker

Orimas wrote: »

seitekisaki wrote: »

Orimas wrote: »

Ability and morphs improved. This brings DK an execute finally and it ties in with the new combustion change to guarantee improved resource management. I believe this will help bring All DK to a more competive level.

I'd back that.

Yeah I think it's an all around improvement. It probably wouldn't even have to be a big increase as an execute. Even a small increase of 20% on low health targets would be a big improvement and close the gap a bit. I can't remember how much the original execute for light attacks that was built in to the skill was for but I don't think it was much higher than that.

140% and I think it affected heavy attacks

Bodycounter

I like Orimas suggestions. Easy, impactful and fixes the Dragonknights shortcomings to some extent.

I hope this thread gets some attention from Zenimax. We have critics on an existing ability and brought up several suggestions to improve and adjust it. Didn‘t expect so many good answers and the impact of potential changes.

Thanks for this fruitful discussion.

Orimas

Bodycounter wrote: »

I like Orimas suggestions. Easy, impactful and fixes the Dragonknights shortcomings to some extent.

I hope this thread gets some attention from Zenimax. We have critics on an existing ability and brought up several suggestions to improve and adjust it. Didn‘t expect so many good answers and the impact of potential changes.

Thanks for this fruitful discussion.

I added my suggestions to the official DK feedback thread and added some more detailed explanations in it.

Soul_Demon

Bodycounter wrote: »

Hello community,

until now i really liked Molten Weapon and especially its morph Molten Armanents. But with the upcoming changes to Empower and the scalings to light/heavy attacks, the ability feels a bit outdated in my opinion. The first morph adds Major Brutality which can be acquired from various better sources. The second morph adds 40% damage to fully-charged heavy attacks.

Critic on the first morph:
Its a nice to have that the ability buffs the whole group, but most people run a form of Sorcery/Brutality anyway. This morph feels unspecial in what its doing after activation. In my opinion this should become a stamina-centric morph which substitutes an interesting passive for Major Sorcery. For example: Empowered light attacks add minor fracture to your target.

Critic on the second morph:
This morph was really interesting until now, because it made fully-charged heavy attacks of the Dragonknight hit really hard.it was still awkward to use it on a stamina character, because it only adds Major Sorcery. On top of that light attack weaving will outclass heavy attacks after the PTS changes —> This morph should increase the overall damage of an autoattack scaling with the charge time. For example: 20% on light attacks scaling up to 40% for fully-charged heavy attacks.

Any other opinion from Dragonknight players?

So, in a nutshell you think this should be changed to be utilized by stam players and make recommendations to simply do just that.