Official Discussion Thread for "Battlegrounds for All & Morrowind Moving to Crown Store"

molecule

Perhaps now they are opening up BGs' to more players, they might address the total imbalance with team creation.

Getting rolled by pre-made teams is funny once, but when it's virtually every round it wears thin quickly.

Or did the top tier BG ers put this suggestion forward to ZOS, so they can farm more fodder ?

CaffeinatedMayhem

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

The Expansion Marketing move didn't go over too well.

This is ZoS improving their practices.

Change after "failure" is never a pleasant experience, but it will improve the overall game in the future.

Take that into consideration before berating ZoS about this change. (As you do have ground to stand on)

Don't enforce a standard of: Our customers will be happy if we keep things as they're first released.

At the same time though, it would be best for ZoS to prepare a PR statement or action.

Except there is no change. Summerset is still an expansion and you have to pay cash, not crowns. This is just what they're going to do with "old" content - wrap it into base game, and section it off.

Lumsdenml

Been a subscriber since January 2015, and really, I have no issues with this. Get more people in, that's great. I paid $30 for early access, so what? Everyone who is complaining about spending the money to get it a year early has probably spent more money last month at Starbucks for coffee...

Lumsdenml

NeroBad wrote: »

When Skyrim was launched it had a typical AAA price tag, and its DLCs was 20-20-5 Euros. Now you can buy the special edition for 20 with the right moment.

If we argue about that Morrowind Chapter was 40 EUR and now you have options to aquire it for "free" (preorder bonus), then I hope we will argue about the whole topic, that nearly all other games do that - So if you are not okey with it in ESO you should also go to other games forums and tell them the same.

When I think a game or its dlc is too expensive I just wait then I buy it on sale which always I mean always comes.

Those who feel riped off are new comers to the gaming market, or insatiable ones.

Oh my gosh, so much this! People who bought Skyrim when it came out, did you complain when it was half off a year later?

VaranisArano

Lumsdenml wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

When Skyrim was launched it had a typical AAA price tag, and its DLCs was 20-20-5 Euros. Now you can buy the special edition for 20 with the right moment.

If we argue about that Morrowind Chapter was 40 EUR and now you have options to aquire it for "free" (preorder bonus), then I hope we will argue about the whole topic, that nearly all other games do that - So if you are not okey with it in ESO you should also go to other games forums and tell them the same.

When I think a game or its dlc is too expensive I just wait then I buy it on sale which always I mean always comes.

Those who feel riped off are new comers to the gaming market, or insatiable ones.

Oh my gosh, so much this! People who bought Skyrim when it came out, did you complain when it was half off a year later?

Did Skyrim promise ESO+ members free access to DLC, then call certain things a "Chapter" aka totally not a DLC, only to later make those things into a DLC and a base game update?

It was a money grab, and I dont have to applaud then for it,.

Avran_Sylt

thatlaurachick wrote: »

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

The Expansion Marketing move didn't go over too well.

This is ZoS improving their practices.

Change after "failure" is never a pleasant experience, but it will improve the overall game in the future.

Take that into consideration before berating ZoS about this change. (As you do have ground to stand on)

Don't enforce a standard of: Our customers will be happy if we keep things as they're first released.

At the same time though, it would be best for ZoS to prepare a PR statement or action.

Except there is no change. Summerset is still an expansion and you have to pay cash, not crowns. This is just what they're going to do with "old" content - wrap it into base game, and section it off.

Meh, probably right. Though in more specifics I'm referring to the old expansion essentially being changed into various DLC packages.

cynaes

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

Meh, probably right. Though in more specifics I'm referring to the old expansion essentially being changed into various DLC packages.

I think it's a smart move. They'll probably make more money from those DLC packages in the crown store than from discounted shelf/Steam editions of the game. Assuming that chapters will be the way to deliver major content updates for the years to come, in a few years we would have "ESO: Morrowind", "ESO: Summerset", "ESO: Swampything", "ESO: Skyrim". Then they would probably start making collected editions. ESO: Platinum Edition (incl. Morrowind & Summerset), ESO: Diamond Edition (+ Swampything), etc. All those editions would probably hit the shelves at great discounts (not in itself a bad thing, but they'll be able to make more money from it through the crown store).

Also, as a new customer, I'd be confused as to what to buy (people are already confused as it is now: "What edition should I get" is a common question on reddit).

I'm still not sure whether they really thought this through longterm (the chapter vs. DLC-stuff), but making Morrowind available in the crown store is a good thing, because it generates more money. If Summerset gets the same treatment in one year's time - I'll be fine with it. Actually, I'll be fine with them giving away every chapter for free, 1 year after it is released, for the next 10 years. Because it means the game will be supported for all that time.

WuffyCerulei

I was honestly a bit miffed when I saw this, but it's been a year since Morrowind was released. I more than got my money's worth from the chapter.

Aldmera

Based on this, if you average the cost over 1 year, they increased ESO+ to $18.34/month and if I get Summerset and they release it for crowns in a year, my ESO+ will be only $16.50. I guess it does not look so bad.

It just feels bad, man.



Can I have my loyalty rewards back, please?

Recremen

I'm not 100% sure how to feel about most of this, so I'll just talk about what I'm 100% sure on : MORE PEOPLE IN BATTLEGROUNDS IS GONNA ROCK!!! Excellent decision for the health of that system.

DaveMoeDee

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Looks like ESO+ can rejoice.

I can't imagine anyone paying for ESO+ while not buying an expansion for a full year and also not pre-ordering Summerset with the included Morrowind, but I suppose it is possible.

DaveMoeDee

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

The Expansion Marketing move didn't go over too well.

This is ZoS improving their practices.

Change after "failure" is never a pleasant experience, but it will improve the overall game in the future.

Take that into consideration before berating ZoS about this change. (As you do have ground to stand on)

Don't enforce a standard of: Our customers will be happy if we keep things as they're first released.

At the same time though, it would be best for ZoS to prepare a PR statement or action.

Is it? Or is it just their plan since they can't keep trying to sell expansions separately for years. When they introduced expansions, they had to eventually have some plan for how to handle old expansions when new ones come out. Here is the plan.

Jayne_Doe

While I agree that this is good for new players and those who did not pre-order or purchase MW outright, it's a pretty big slap in the face to those of us who did purchase it outright, and even pre-ordered for all the bonuses. We were told that this was a new business model - that chapters were going to be larger and ONLY available through direct purchase and NOT available to ESO Plus members.

Now, you suddenly offer MW as part of the base game and free to ESO+ members? WTF? Sure, you have to buy the class separately, but BG is also base game and everyone can buy all the pre-order and collector's edition stuff now. Why did any of us bother to pre-order the game? It will now be a part of my ESO+, but I've already purchased it because I was told that was the only way I'd ever be able to play it. Now, we're told otherwise.

I guess all the players complaining about jewel crafting being behind a paywall don't have to worry now. A year from now, it'll be part of the base game and free to all ESO+ members and purchasable with Crowns.

Now, the ONLY reason to buy the chapter early is to play the content now, rather than having to wait a year. Granted, those who purchase it now will be ahead of the game in terms of jewel crafting, but if I've now spent $30 and next year it'll just be a part of ESO+ that I'm already paying $15/month for, it's not really a benefit and I'm still only getting 3 DLCs/year for my sub.

On the one hand, this is great news for new players and those that never purchased MW, but it just puts a lie to this whole chapter model that they told us they had moved to. One wonders if this wasn't their plan all along and of course, they wouldn't say that then because less people would have purchased MW and more would have waited. How this will affect Summerset sales remains to be seen. Those who can't afford it now or some patient ESO+ players may just wait it out.

DaveMoeDee

Apache_Kid wrote: »

NeroBad wrote: »

When Skyrim was launched it had a typical AAA price tag, and its DLCs was 20-20-5 Euros. Now you can buy the special edition for 20 with the right moment.

If we argue about that Morrowind Chapter was 40 EUR and now you have options to aquire it for "free" (preorder bonus), then I hope we will argue about the whole topic, that nearly all other games do that - So if you are not okey with it in ESO you should also go to other games forums and tell them the same.

When I think a game or its dlc is too expensive I just wait then I buy it on sale which always I mean always comes.

Those who feel riped off are new comers to the gaming market, or insatiable ones.

That's not even why people feel cheated.

It's because ZoS had a set system in place in which they distributed DLCs. They decided to make an exception for the Morrowind DLC and take it OUT of the system they had in place so that could get a cash grab and not let people use crowns they had saved up on sale or their ESO plus to get Morrowind.

Then 1 year later, they take the exception they made for morrowind and put it back into the system.

It's not the same as what other games do in the slightest. I have never seen anything like this.

I agree with both of you. Last year, it was fair to criticize the bait and switch that they did. But now chapters are part of how the game works and people have known this before making any purchases over the past year.

The only problem is that they initially promoted ESO+ as one thing and then made it something else. If not for that, what they are doing is not problematic. And since everyone has known for a year that this was the new model, it is time to move on.

"Cash grab" seems the wrong term. The game needs to make money at a certain level to continue. The problem isn't them seeking new revenue streams, the problem is the bait-and-switch that happened over a year ago.

Giraffon

This might be a step in the right direction. I would like to see them eliminate the so called "Chapter" concept completely. It's a big lie. They are DLCs. Next year don't roll out a "chapter" at all. Just put out two DLCs and make them nice. Nobody was complaining when it was all DLC. We all understood it and it was fair. We all knew that crowns would let us get whatever we wanted in game. We stocked up so we'd be ready for the next new great thing. Then you screwed us and would only sell us new content (Chapters) with new money instead of money we had already given you. You violated our trust and showed your dark side. Now it looks like you might be starting to realize you would have been fine leaving things the way they were. It wasn't broke you know.

Anotherone773

So in a nutshell....

* if you buy the new base game, it will include morrowind.
* Morrowind will become a DLC that is free with ESO+ or can be purchased for crowns.
* Warden can be purchased separately
* BGs are now part of the base game.

So my problem with this is that i bought morrowind a few months ago as a package deal. I have ESO+, so basically its like paying twice for the same content. I know people do this with DLCs buy them and occasionally sub but if i cancel my sub, its because i decided to stop playing.

I would like the option to get the morrowind crown price refunded( in crowns) and it become tied to my sub rather than i own it, since i would of never bought it if it was going to become a sub option. Im ok with the rest of it.

This is why i like sub games with no BS. You pay one price a month, everything included, access to all content, no gimmicks, no this person pays $100 for the content and this person that starts 3 months later pays $60 and this person that starts 6 months later pays $25.

Jayne_Doe

NeroBad wrote: »

When Skyrim was launched it had a typical AAA price tag, and its DLCs was 20-20-5 Euros. Now you can buy the special edition for 20 with the right moment.

If we argue about that Morrowind Chapter was 40 EUR and now you have options to aquire it for "free" (preorder bonus), then I hope we will argue about the whole topic, that nearly all other games do that - So if you are not okey with it in ESO you should also go to other games forums and tell them the same.

When I think a game or its dlc is too expensive I just wait then I buy it on sale which always I mean always comes.

Those who feel riped off are new comers to the gaming market, or insatiable ones.

The issue I have is not that later people could buy MW on sale, for cheaper, or even that it was free with a Summerset pre-order. My issue is that they advertised a new chapter model, where a chapter HAD to be purchased and would NOT be available for crowns or part of ESO+. The issue is not that they changed the price, but that they changed the model for ESO+ members. They told us it was NOT part of ESO+, that we HAD to purchase it separately, and then a year later they suddenly make it part of the sub.

It's one thing to buy a game at launch because you want to play it then, knowing that of course it will be on sale later. I've waited for sales on titles I wasn't necessarily interested in playing at the time. But, telling us that the ONLY way to get something is by direct purchase, and then telling all the ESO+ members a year later that no, they didn't really have to pay for it separately, just wait a year, is a bit different. While we all knew the price of MW would go down (though, admittedly, not that it would be offered as a free pre-order bonus), we did NOT know that they'd just make it part of our sub a year later. So, now I've paid outright for something that should have been part of ESO+ from the beginning. It feels like I'm paying for MW twice.

In any event, not canceling my sub or anything drastic, as while I take issue with what they've done, I'll get over it. And, I think it's great for new players, certainly, and for those ESO+ members who didn't purchase it before. Plus, having BGs base game sounds like it'll be good for the health of that game mode. I'll decide whether I'll keep my pre-order, though. As now, it's just a matter of - do I pay to play it at launch, or just wait a year for it to then be part of the sub I've been paying. ETA: Now, I would be making an INFORMED decision, whereas before, I was given inaccurate information to encourage a purchase that I didn't necessarily have to make in order to play the content.

DaveMoeDee

Anotherone773 wrote: »

So in a nutshell....

* if you buy the new base game, it will include morrowind.
* Morrowind will become a DLC that is free with ESO+ or can be purchased for crowns.
* Warden can be purchased separately
* BGs are now part of the base game.

So my problem with this is that i bought morrowind a few months ago as a package deal. I have ESO+, so basically its like paying twice for the same content. I know people do this with DLCs buy them and occasionally sub but if i cancel my sub, its because i decided to stop playing.

I would like the option to get the morrowind crown price refunded( in crowns) and it become tied to my sub rather than i own it, since i would of never bought it if it was going to become a sub option. Im ok with the rest of it.

This is why i like sub games with no BS. You pay one price a month, everything included, access to all content, no gimmicks, no this person pays $100 for the content and this person that starts 3 months later pays $60 and this person that starts 6 months later pays $25.

Now that the precedent is set, I expect we will see the same thing every year and people can plan accordingly. Unfortunately, they have moved the goalposts so much over the past year that it is hard to trust things won't change again.

CaffeinatedMayhem

Jayne_Doe wrote: »

The issue I have is not that later people could buy MW on sale, for cheaper, or even that it was free with a Summerset pre-order. My issue is that they advertised a new chapter model, where a chapter HAD to be purchased and would NOT be available for crowns or part of ESO+. The issue is not that they changed the price, but that they changed the model for ESO+ members. They told us it was NOT part of ESO+, that we HAD to purchase it separately, and then a year later they suddenly make it part of the sub.

<snip>

You know...this sounds a lot like Year 1/ Paid Beta. New MMO, subscription only. Players pay for bugs for a year, when all the bug arel fixed (1.0) - FREE! (ok BTP but really...)

Rather disturbing to see this trend continuing. I am now very sorry I pre-ordered Summerset for the mount. I could have waited for a much better deal 6-12 months down the line.

Jayne_Doe

Lumsdenml wrote: »

Been a subscriber since January 2015, and really, I have no issues with this. Get more people in, that's great. I paid $30 for early access, so what? Everyone who is complaining about spending the money to get it a year early has probably spent more money last month at Starbucks for coffee...

Right, except they didn't tell us that was going to happen. With Summerset, I can make that decision. With MW, I wasn't given the information to make that informed decision. I don't mind that I played it a year ago, and certainly very much enjoyed it.

I'm getting over this pretty quickly, as I read other comments and see other perspectives. I still think it's a bit crappy, and perhaps some of it is in the way they presented it. If they had acknowledged somewhere that they recognize that this is a change in the model they announced last year, it would have gone over better. Just saying - hey, we're making all these great changes! MW is going base game, available for crowns, and in ESO+. Those are all great on the face of it, but perhaps they couldn't or didn't want to acknowledge that either the chapter model didn't go over as well as they'd hoped or that this was the plan from the beginning, but they didn't tell us so as not to affect sales. I'm certain that this will affect sales of Summerset, and I suppose they can live with that, since perhaps it will keep more subs now and people can make the decision to either purchase it now for early access or wait until it's part of their sub. They can also purchase it with crowns later if they want (so it encourages more crown sales) and people can buy just the Warden class if they want. It does give options now, which is great, but it still stings a bit as an ESO plus member.

Sotha_Sil

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

The Expansion Marketing move didn't go over too well.

This is ZoS improving their practices.

Change after "failure" is never a pleasant experience, but it will improve the overall game in the future.

.

You really think they had not planned this all along ? haha think again

casparian

This is terrific news and the way it always should have been.

But this just makes it all the more clear that Summerset ought to be available through ESO Plus as well.

VaranisArano

casparian wrote: »

This is terrific news and the way it always should have been.

But this just makes it all the more clear that Summerset ought to be available through ESO Plus as well.

This. Its the right choice for the game going forward.

It should have always been this way.

"Chapters" were always nothing more that DLC bundled together to get more money from ESO+ subscribers.

Ankael07

They seperate Morrowind from ESO+ people rage. Then they listen to people and merge Morrowind with ESO+ but people still rage. Make your minds up y'all

RMerlin

It's called a business model, not a cash grab. ESO doesn't get developed for free, and the yearly amount of content this game adds is quite significant. The same thing exists for pretty much everything else: new games are always more expensive at launch than a year later. Hardware go down in price later on. Or are you guys complaining every time something goes down in price after a while?

I've been used to other MMOs also charging me a monthly fee + a more or less yearly expansion. I guess the younger players here are more used to getting pretty much everything for free or for dirt cheap, having grown on the microtransaction model introduced by mobile games. ESO isn't a mobile game. It needs a different business model.

In terms of the volume of content, Morrowind contains more than any other DLCs (with the exception of Wrothgar, which could probably have been sold as a chapter at the time). A typical DLC for most games contains a few hours of content. Morrowind and Wrothgar contains many tens of hours of playable content, voiced quests, and so on.

While I find the chapter are priced a bit high, it's still not enough for me to consider it a major issue. I could understand however if some players felt that it was indeed an issue for their own budget.

Including them in the newly purchased base game (replacing One Tamriel) makes sense, because otherwise the entry level for a new player would be very frustrating, if they had to buy the game, then to discover that large areas require paying for a chapter, and then dungeon/quest lines would require paying for DLCs. Rolling Chapters (or expansions as called in other games) is also common practice in MMO. When you bought the latest EQ2 box, it came with the latest expansion.

And once they include it in the "new" base game, adding it to ESO+ is only logical.

casparian

Ankael07 wrote: »

They seperate Morrowind from ESO+ people rage. Then they listen to people and merge Morrowind with ESO+ but people still rage. Make your minds up y'all

What we always said is that Chapters should be part of ESO+ just like DLC. They're still not in general, even though one Chapter has been added to it a year after release.

poleth1984

wait! zos is a company that wants to make money?! NO WAY!

Aerius_Sygale

I am not upset, but happy with this overall, really just glad this ends up happening EVENTUALLY. If they were up frot about it in the first place, what a Chapter after Morrowind will do to it, I still would have paid to have access to the stuff a whole year earlier.

This will be in time shortly before Midyear Mayhem in July, hoping this will allow much more of a presence of players in Battlegrounds for it, I need Legate's Black dye already...by that point it will have been over 4 years since I started playing (June 10th, 2014)...

Elsonso

Avran_Sylt wrote: »

The Expansion Marketing move didn't go over too well.

This is ZoS improving their practices.

Change after "failure" is never a pleasant experience, but it will improve the overall game in the future.

I'd say it is actually the opposite of what you think. I think Morrowind was pretty successful, as is the entire game. They aren't fixing a "mistake". if they were doing that, Summerset would follow the same path.

They want it to stay successful. They are correcting an upcoming problem with new players having to spend money on the base game, then Morrowind, and finally Summerset, to play all features of the game. It eliminates the question of whether to buy Morrowind before Summerset. It gets them away from a The Sims situation.

Likewise, I expect they will be creating a new bundle of DLC so that new players can buy the bundle and get a larger number of DLC than what is currently offered.

driosketch

Ohhh boy. Well this is one of those things that salts the long time customers but is better for the future health of the game.