How is this ok? Premades and their effect on BGs

IV_Deity

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

You know, people whine about this nonstop on the Bungie forums. It's a team game, you make your team, you work together, you win. It's not a hard concept. I don't get why anyone thinks a bunch of lone wolves running off doing whatever they want should dominate teams working together. It's stupid. If you're tired of getting steamrolled, stop being a lone wolf, get a team together, and get good.

You missed the point entirely. Matchmaking should be based on team composition and skill. The OP suggests that if a team of 4 solo players search for a BG, then it should match them with another team of 4 solo players or a team similar to them. It's not a matter of getting good.

Duukar

I run in a premade BG group.

The best games we have are vs other premades. We use voice but we do NOT intentionally "raid buff" we just play what we feel like.

Obviously close intense games are more fun. When we start posting numbers with more than 1 of our group members 15-0 or greater you can really see an issue. Those players won't be back for more than a round or two that day.

Sometimes you see the same premade or two over and over and over. Fun but draining.

I've pugged and had the group crush faces. Downing premades who are death matching (ill never get why premades death match or farm pre win) I've been rolled too. Usually do about 1/4th as well without my premade.

Simple fact. The BGs lack population.

Why? Paywall. Premade roflstomps. Pugging (rightfully) sucking. It's really obvious to be honest.

Solution?

Remove pay wall. Create group and solo queue. MASSIVELY increase AP gains. Make BGs count towards earning skills like vigor. Not sure if this one happens now. All my toons are lvled.

The BGs are awesome. A true reprieve from the zergs of cyro. There needs to be some real focus and tweaking by ZOS to bring them up to their full potential.

I truly hope they fix the BGs. Such a great outlet.

Jade1986

This has been an issue since forever in mmos. In other pvp games such as halo and gow for example you are matched with groups only if you are in a group yourself usually.

I dont even have to read through the replies to know that people will be like " well play in a premade, hur durr "

Jade1986

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

You know, people whine about this nonstop on the Bungie forums. It's a team game, you make your team, you work together, you win. It's not a hard concept. I don't get why anyone thinks a bunch of lone wolves running off doing whatever they want should dominate teams working together. It's stupid. If you're tired of getting steamrolled, stop being a lone wolf, get a team together, and get good.

Bungie has a system that matches you with groups if there are groups available, been that way since reach nearly.

Dont_do_drugs

i dont get the problem. is it the problem of those people preparing for bg and also SOCIALISING? if people queue solo for a 4-people content and dont play good together then, how can this be a problem made by those people, who are taking this content more serious and trying to be good?

Jade1986

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont get the problem. is it the problem of those people preparing for bg and also SOCIALISING? if people queue solo for a 4-people content and dont play good together then, how can this be a problem made by those people, who are taking this content more serious and trying to be good?

This is the age old argument premades use. And as has been proven in numerous mmos, it causes the game mode to die over time.

WoW
SWTOR
and Now this game.

Seriously, stop it, people only play in a premade 99% of the time because they know the system is messed up. If you are in a premade, then you shouldnt be against playing against other premades.

Dont_do_drugs

Jade1986 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont get the problem. is it the problem of those people preparing for bg and also SOCIALISING? if people queue solo for a 4-people content and dont play good together then, how can this be a problem made by those people, who are taking this content more serious and trying to be good?

This is the age old argument premades use. And as has been proven in numerous mmos, it causes the game mode to die over time.

WoW
SWTOR
and Now this game.

Seriously, stop it, people only play in a premade 99% of the time because they know the system is messed up. If you are in a premade, then you shouldnt be against playing against other premades.

what? mmos die because people socialise and communicate. flawless logic.

Solariken

Honestly I feel you but a better solution is to make a group yourself. Premade vs premade is much more fun than a bunch of disorganized pugs picking flowers.

Even queing as a duo makes a world of difference. Friend me in game @aliyavana and I'd be happy to run with you.

Jade1986

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont get the problem. is it the problem of those people preparing for bg and also SOCIALISING? if people queue solo for a 4-people content and dont play good together then, how can this be a problem made by those people, who are taking this content more serious and trying to be good?

This is the age old argument premades use. And as has been proven in numerous mmos, it causes the game mode to die over time.

WoW
SWTOR
and Now this game.

Seriously, stop it, people only play in a premade 99% of the time because they know the system is messed up. If you are in a premade, then you shouldnt be against playing against other premades.

what? mmos die because people socialise and communicate. flawless logic.

1. I didnt say mmos. I said small scale pvp modes.
2. The small scale game modes, do indeed die, because people get tired of being forced to play the same premades over and over and over and over again. It was the reason it happened in swtor, it is the reason it happened in wow, and it is the reason a lot of people avoid it in this game. If you want to play with friends and coordinate, thats totally cool, that is what a mmo is about. However, if you actively fight against getting a system that would pit you against other premades, then its clear you arent there for the team work, and you are there for the easy wins.

Jade1986

Solariken wrote: »

Honestly I feel you but a better solution is to make a group yourself. Premade vs premade is much more fun than a bunch of disorganized pugs picking flowers.

Even queing as a duo makes a world of difference. Friend me in game @aliyavana and I'd be happy to run with you.

Thts all well and good, but sometimes none of your friends are online, then you are either forced to not play, or risk being pitted against premades and just getting frustrated most of the time.

A better solution would be a system that searches for other premades . However I have yet to see an mmo dev actually implement something like that.

Dont_do_drugs

Jade1986 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont get the problem. is it the problem of those people preparing for bg and also SOCIALISING? if people queue solo for a 4-people content and dont play good together then, how can this be a problem made by those people, who are taking this content more serious and trying to be good?

This is the age old argument premades use. And as has been proven in numerous mmos, it causes the game mode to die over time.

WoW
SWTOR
and Now this game.

Seriously, stop it, people only play in a premade 99% of the time because they know the system is messed up. If you are in a premade, then you shouldnt be against playing against other premades.

what? mmos die because people socialise and communicate. flawless logic.

1. I didnt say mmos. I said small scale pvp modes.
2. The small scale game modes, do indeed die, because people get tired of being forced to play the same premades over and over and over and over again. It was the reason it happened in swtor, it is the reason it happened in wow, and it is the reason a lot of people avoid it in this game. If you want to play with friends and coordinate, thats totally cool, that is what a mmo is about. However, if you actively fight against getting a system that would pit you against other premades, then its clear you arent there for the team work, and you are there for the easy wins.

okay lets start again.

the small scale dies, because people play together? u say, people are getting tired of playing always in the same group. tells me, that for some weird reasons people arent able to also play with other premade groups and are bound to their group? actually also very weird logic. i mean, looking into the dsa rankings i see a lot of people also playing with different other friends. seemingly it works for them.

again: this is an MMO. if u want to play solo, then play solo. but there is group content. battergrounds are such group content. and people playing solo (thats what it is, there is no team in pugging, since the only communication which is possible that fast would be chatting/typing, which just doesnt work in such a fast content with more or less intelligent enemies).

there is a system, which gives u the choice to do it randomly or to premade, if u chose the way which makes u weaker and which obviously isnt the intention of that content (group play) and u lose due to this, it isnt the fault of the content, its your fault. because obviously u arent playing a tactical multiplayercontent as its intented to be played: tactial and organized.

Beardimus

aliyavana wrote: »

Its not really premades fault that zos locked BGs behind a paywall and so the population cant support separate no cp, cp ques. We can tell that the BG population is pretty low when you see the same players every other match and see how easy it is to catch the same premade over and over again and be stomped since you lack the coordination of the premade. Its not fun to get steamrolled...

Please separate BGs from morrowind and make it base game so that the population can sustain a group and solo ques. It isn't fun for the premade that is actually looking for a challenge and isn't fun for the solo queing pugs to get steamrolled and can turn off people from BGs completely.

Unless you enjoy steamrolling pugs with your coordinated group and enjoy the free ap...

Edit: Another premade team... After a while my team just gave up and played the rest of the match like deathmatch as they felt it was useless to even try to attempt to get the ball from the premade team. Is making players feel like avoiding the objective all together what zenimax wants?

Anotherone773 wrote: »

KiraTsukasa wrote: »

You know, people whine about this nonstop on the Bungie forums. It's a team game, you make your team, you work together, you win. It's not a hard concept. I don't get why anyone thinks a bunch of lone wolves running off doing whatever they want should dominate teams working together. It's stupid. If you're tired of getting steamrolled, stop being a lone wolf, get a team together, and get good.

Premades have the following advantages:
* Can use builds that compliment each other. So they can work basically "raid buffed".
* Communication. They often have voice communication that the entire team is in. This alone offers a significant advantage.
* You know each members strengths and weaknesses before the BG even loads.

The whole purpose of group finder is for people who dont have premades in ANY game. And im pretty sure every BG ive been in i went through GROUP FINDER.

I dont care if i get a bad team. That guy that plays every match as deathmatch and could careless about objectives. That other one that runs around aimlessly not close to any objective or player. The one that runs by a flag but not even through its circle to start the transfer...just a couple meters outside of it. All of that is fine. But that team needs to be put against a group with similar problems. IE: One that is made up of random players. Not against a coordinated buffed premade.

Im pretty sure the only people who actually do battleground and like premades mixed with full PUG are the ones who farm them. I have yet to meet one solo PUGGER, again in any game, that thinks its a good idea or fair. Its a balance flaw in every game with BGS, and its one of the few "features" that ZOS borrowed from other games. They couldnt borrow something like awesome battlegrounds or creative objectives... nope it had to be lets mix premade with random.

In short, Morrowind is basically going base game. Any new players and most current players getting summerset get it free....

Often pugs look like premades when they are just good players who know the deal. But yes a pro premade can mince a PUG.

Best way, make a team. You stand a chance then. PUG stomping isn't fun for most pros either. Well cept the ego idiots

Peekachu99

CP would level the playing field (somewhat) against premades stacking meta gear. There should be the option for BOTH CP and non-CP. Current BG populations are as small as non-CP campaigns. It’s a niche within a niche and while it’s nice to have, it should a choice, not the only choice for BGs.

Jarryzzt

Again, I reiterate the experience of World of Tanks. Which, of course, is pure PVP random deathmatch. And which has historically recognized that premades need to be balanced in a way so as not to affect PUGs. For example, in the big 15 on 15 random battle mode, the matchmaking algorithm tries to evenly distribute premades of 2-3 players between the two teams so that you don't end up with all the premades on one side and all the randoms on the other. As well, the "big" premade groups are generally kept isolated into their own gameplay mode (i.e. PUG players do 15 on 15, clans do something else, like 7 on 7 used to be big).

Unfortunately, the experience does not quite translate one to one because there, the teams are 15 on 15 (in "PUG" mode, that is). Nevertheless. Balancing PUGs and premades not only makes theoretical sense - it's actually been done, in a way, on a large scale. Now - how to do that in ESO is a separate question.

Personally, I see two pathways, potentially:

- Split the queue into groups and non-groups. So essentially the way WoT has matches for PUG players and separate kinds of matches for big premade groups only.
- Make the BG teams somewhat bigger and evenly divide groups between them (i.e. grouped-up players in Team A must equal grouped-up players in Team B ).

Unfortunately, both these things require not only for ZOS to admit that they might just not be practically perfect in every way and - just as crucially - allocate developer resources to rewriting the system...but also for there to be a metric megaton of players in the queue. Or at least a kiloton. Because I've personally seen what happens in low-pop deathmatch games during offpeak hours - you literally wait for 3 minutes until the bare minimum of players jumps in and make up the two teams while junking most of the restrictions because they happen to be the only ones on. Or, as happens in BG, you keep the teams pretty small but then keep running into the same people every other match.

So there we are. Essentially, I don't think the issue will change very much in the visible future, even though theoretically it very well should.

Slick_007

Jade1986 wrote: »

However, if you actively fight against getting a system that would pit you against other premades, then its clear you arent there for the team work, and you are there for the easy wins.

says another person who hasnt put a single iota of thought into pouring out the hatred on other people. Im in a guild. you know, those social things. someone in my guild might say 'hey im going to do a bg, who wants to come?' and 3 people join them. Its a pug. literally. 4 people just happen to be from the same guild, doing the social thing and you and others are claiming that theres something wrong with saying they should be able to fight other pugs.

you know what? im saying theres something wrong with you guys. You havent thought this through and now you're having shots at anyone who disagrees with you, making bullcrap claims about those people. Take your bullcrap and bugger off.

Anotherone773

Feanor wrote: »

5,000 AP difference in per match isn’t exactly significant. Most premades would make a lot more in Cyrodiil.

You mean when they arent getting steamrolled by the zerg?

Biro123

Slick_007 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

However, if you actively fight against getting a system that would pit you against other premades, then its clear you arent there for the team work, and you are there for the easy wins.

says another person who hasnt put a single iota of thought into pouring out the hatred on other people. Im in a guild. you know, those social things. someone in my guild might say 'hey im going to do a bg, who wants to come?' and 3 people join them. Its a pug. literally. 4 people just happen to be from the same guild, doing the social thing and you and others are claiming that theres something wrong with saying they should be able to fight other pugs.

you know what? im saying theres something wrong with you guys. You havent thought this through and now you're having shots at anyone who disagrees with you, making bullcrap claims about those people. Take your bullcrap and bugger off.

Why do people refuse to see the problem here. I for one won't play bgs purely because of this issue. There are obviously quite a lot of other forum posters with the same view, which stands to reason that there are a LOT more players with the same view. How. Can you NOT see that this is a problem?

Btw, what you described is, by definition a premade.. A group formed prior to joining the bg. And I don't think anybody is suggesting that premdes are stopped from queuing, so why all the hostility?

Anotherone773

Owondyah wrote: »

I don't get all this [snip] about premades... It's social game, get friends together and queue up and work as team. Simple as that. Don't cry over something that should not be changed.

It's TEAM based objective game - T E A M. It's meant to be played as premade.


However, I agree that it sholdn't be behind a paywall to get it a bit more populated.

EDIT: name me a game where pug vs pugs and premades vs premades. I have over 20 mmos installed, its not a case in any.

Really? If it was meant to be played as a premade, you couldnt queue for it unless you had a group already. That may is completely illogical.

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

i dont get the problem. is it the problem of those people preparing for bg and also SOCIALISING? if people queue solo for a 4-people content and dont play good together then, how can this be a problem made by those people, who are taking this content more serious and trying to be good?

This is the age old argument premades use. And as has been proven in numerous mmos, it causes the game mode to die over time.

WoW
SWTOR
and Now this game.

Seriously, stop it, people only play in a premade 99% of the time because they know the system is messed up. If you are in a premade, then you shouldnt be against playing against other premades.

what? mmos die because people socialise and communicate. flawless logic.

No BGs tend to go down the hole, when premades are put with solo PUGs. the solo PUGs get tired of getting steamrolled and stop queuing. This increases queue times to large waits. Then premades dont bother to queue because its pointless to sit around for 30-45 minutes for a 10-15 minute fight. So most of the pop ignores BGS all together.

If you separate premades and PUGs, i bet the amount of people that queue increase significantly. I would queue a lot more. I only queue on weekdays before 3 pm local time which means rarely as i have a life. Outside of that time, the BGs become full of "pvpers" who are premade groups, pvp gear, and are setup purely for pvp.

I want to be matched against a similar group to mine. I dont want to steamroll other teams and i dont want to be steamrolled. As someone that has pvped in the hardcore pvp games for two decades i find neither to be fun. The best BGs are the ones where every team is above 400 when someone wins. And the further you get away from that "balance", the worse the BG is for me, even if im on the the team that won. Ive been in BGs were one team has 500 points, another has less than 150, and another has less than 50 sometimes zero. And i have watched as that 500 point team will run as a group and just slaughter people. Even when the other two groups ignore each other, and that happens, and tries to fight the group that is steamrolling, they still get steamrolled.

I would queue 2 or 3 times as much if i knew when i queued that i would matched only against PUGs.

Slick_007 wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

However, if you actively fight against getting a system that would pit you against other premades, then its clear you arent there for the team work, and you are there for the easy wins.

says another person who hasnt put a single iota of thought into pouring out the hatred on other people. Im in a guild. you know, those social things. someone in my guild might say 'hey im going to do a bg, who wants to come?' and 3 people join them. Its a pug. literally. 4 people just happen to be from the same guild, doing the social thing and you and others are claiming that theres something wrong with saying they should be able to fight other pugs.

you know what? im saying theres something wrong with you guys. You havent thought this through and now you're having shots at anyone who disagrees with you, making bullcrap claims about those people. Take your bullcrap and bugger off.

You dont understand what a PUG is, according to your post, which makes your entire post irrelevant.

Edit: Ill help you understand. A PUG is a group of players that would not normally ever group together. IE: People NOT in your guild or on your friends list. It is literally the opposite of a "guild group"

[Edited for quote]

VaranisArano

Nobody quits Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by a good group.

People quit Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by the same group, over and over again, that they and their random teammates have little to no change of beating and they have no option of queuing against other random teams so as to not encounter that pre-made group they can't beat.

In terms of Cyrodiil, how many times would you throw yourself with a few random PUGs against an organized small group farming a resource, getting your butts handed to you every time? How many times would you wipe before you decided to go do something else or call in reinforcements?

In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call in reinforcements against a premade group you can't handle. In Battlegrounds, your only option is to stop playing or keep throwing yourself at them to get farmed.

Its demoralizing for a player queuing with random teammates to run into the same group, over and over, getting farmed with no option to play solely against other randomly-formed teams.

Saying "then get your own pre-made together" is basically saying "Get friends who like Battlegrounds, get voice comms, get gear and builds that mesh together, and get good - now its your turn to smash random PUGs!" AKA not very helpful to a random player who'd like to not get farmed repeatedly by the same pre-made groups while queuing with other random players.

Anotherone773

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nobody quits Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by a good group.

People quit Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by the same group, over and over again, that they and their random teammates have little to no change of beating and they have no option of queuing against other random teams so as to not encounter that pre-made group they can't beat.

In terms of Cyrodiil, how many times would you throw yourself with a few random PUGs against an organized small group farming a resource, getting your butts handed to you every time? How many times would you wipe before you decided to go do something else or call in reinforcements?

In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call in reinforcements against a premade group you can't handle. In Battlegrounds, your only option is to stop playing or keep throwing yourself at them to get farmed.

Its demoralizing for a player queuing with random teammates to run into the same group, over and over, getting farmed with no option to play solely against other randomly-formed teams.

Saying "then get your own pre-made together" is basically saying "Get friends who like Battlegrounds, get voice comms, get gear and builds that mesh together, and get good - now its your turn to smash random PUGs!" AKA not very helpful to a random player who'd like to not get farmed repeatedly by the same pre-made groups while queuing with other random players.

You always manage to articulate the most logical arguments.

makreth

Seraphayel wrote: »

I hope they're making battlegrounds free for everyone with Summerset. I mean they're already gifting Morrowind to everyone who buys Summerset.

It is no fun to wait 30 minutes for a battleground to happen and then it only starts with 3v3v3. Hard to believe there are not more players doing them. I LOVE battlegrounds but fighting a premade group again and again is slowly killing my fun.

Correction *preorders

Solariken

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nobody quits Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by a good group.

People quit Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by the same group, over and over again, that they and their random teammates have little to no change of beating and they have no option of queuing against other random teams so as to not encounter that pre-made group they can't beat.

In terms of Cyrodiil, how many times would you throw yourself with a few random PUGs against an organized small group farming a resource, getting your butts handed to you every time? How many times would you wipe before you decided to go do something else or call in reinforcements?

In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call in reinforcements against a premade group you can't handle. In Battlegrounds, your only option is to stop playing or keep throwing yourself at them to get farmed.

Its demoralizing for a player queuing with random teammates to run into the same group, over and over, getting farmed with no option to play solely against other randomly-formed teams.

Saying "then get your own pre-made together" is basically saying "Get friends who like Battlegrounds, get voice comms, get gear and builds that mesh together, and get good - now its your turn to smash random PUGs!" AKA not very helpful to a random player who'd like to not get farmed repeatedly by the same pre-made groups while queuing with other random players.

But the thing is, you don't even need synergy builds and voice comms. You just need a friend or two who will actively play objectives and don't yolo-solo into 1vX situations.

Joy_Division

There are not enough players queing for battlegrounds to have separate ques. There isn't. Maybe if ZoS makes them universal this may change, but I doubt it. PvP just ins't very big in ESO. And most of the pvp oriented players who are interested in BGs already are quing. At best, BGs would get an influx of the very people who are getting frustrated by being rekt by premades, not a sustainable long term solution.

AhPook_Is_Here

I think it's a good idea to separate Pugs from Group in the queue. This really isn't a "get good" thing, this is about convenience gaming v.s. competitive gaming. PUGs queue for convenience, teams queue for competition. Mixing the two just ruins game-play for one.

I don't know if BGs should be free though. It was one of the attractions of Morrowind and a selling point for PVP players who wanted small man balanced teams. I get that the liquidity isn't there but if ZoS gives up attractions for free they are basically giving up sales. Furthermore, if they didn't sell enough copies it's their failure to make the value proposition appealing enough. I hope they figure that out with their next "chapter". When I played the beta of Morrowind I really felt like there was less to it than Orsinium, which was just a DLC. If they sell a lot of copies of Summerset, then there will be more BG players as Morrowind is getting rolled into it as a package deal, but people who didn't perceive a fair cost for Morrowind, likely won't perceive one for Summerset either if it has the same sense of spare content in a big map.

Anyway, you make great points, particularly from a player's point of view, but as to the "free" thing, I don't think that's in ZoS' interest and it's unlikely they'd consider it. I'm sure packaging it into Summerset was already their answer to that.

VaranisArano

Solariken wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nobody quits Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by a good group.

People quit Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by the same group, over and over again, that they and their random teammates have little to no change of beating and they have no option of queuing against other random teams so as to not encounter that pre-made group they can't beat.

In terms of Cyrodiil, how many times would you throw yourself with a few random PUGs against an organized small group farming a resource, getting your butts handed to you every time? How many times would you wipe before you decided to go do something else or call in reinforcements?

In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call in reinforcements against a premade group you can't handle. In Battlegrounds, your only option is to stop playing or keep throwing yourself at them to get farmed.

Its demoralizing for a player queuing with random teammates to run into the same group, over and over, getting farmed with no option to play solely against other randomly-formed teams.

Saying "then get your own pre-made together" is basically saying "Get friends who like Battlegrounds, get voice comms, get gear and builds that mesh together, and get good - now its your turn to smash random PUGs!" AKA not very helpful to a random player who'd like to not get farmed repeatedly by the same pre-made groups while queuing with other random players.

But the thing is, you don't even need synergy builds and voice comms. You just need a friend or two who will actively play objectives and don't yolo-solo into 1vX situations.

So, basically the "get friends who like Battlegrounds and get good so you can be your own pre-made" solution.

Anotherone773

Joy_Division wrote: »

There are not enough players queing for battlegrounds to have separate ques. There isn't. Maybe if ZoS makes them universal this may change, but I doubt it. PvP just ins't very big in ESO. And most of the pvp oriented players who are interested in BGs already are quing. At best, BGs would get an influx of the very people who are getting frustrated by being rekt by premades, not a sustainable long term solution.

I dont know what server you play on but i can get a BG queue in less than 3 minutes unless im playing in the dead of night. Often in less than a minute. I could get one faster if they would separate premades from PUGs. Quite a few people in my guilds have made comments that imply they would queue or queue more often if BGs were more balanced teams and were not so lopsided.

Apache_Kid

I just can't believe this is a thread again. Sometimes you win sometimes you lose.

The best feeling in the world is smashing one of those pre-mades with a Pug group.

It just blows my mind that people on this message board whine and complain about people playing with their friends.

Also for the record I almost always queue solo and have a great time.

Dont_do_drugs

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nobody quits Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by a good group.

People quit Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by the same group, over and over again, that they and their random teammates have little to no change of beating and they have no option of queuing against other random teams so as to not encounter that pre-made group they can't beat.

In terms of Cyrodiil, how many times would you throw yourself with a few random PUGs against an organized small group farming a resource, getting your butts handed to you every time? How many times would you wipe before you decided to go do something else or call in reinforcements?

In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call in reinforcements against a premade group you can't handle. In Battlegrounds, your only option is to stop playing or keep throwing yourself at them to get farmed.

Its demoralizing for a player queuing with random teammates to run into the same group, over and over, getting farmed with no option to play solely against other randomly-formed teams.

Saying "then get your own pre-made together" is basically saying "Get friends who like Battlegrounds, get voice comms, get gear and builds that mesh together, and get good - now its your turn to smash random PUGs!" AKA not very helpful to a random player who'd like to not get farmed repeatedly by the same pre-made groups while queuing with other random players.

to me it sounds more like a l2p and l2socialize issue.
and actually on ur last part u already got the problem. it is very helpfull. why should other people play worse so random pugs which dont want to learn how to play a content feel better?

Aliyavana

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nobody quits Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by a good group.

People quit Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by the same group, over and over again, that they and their random teammates have little to no change of beating and they have no option of queuing against other random teams so as to not encounter that pre-made group they can't beat.

In terms of Cyrodiil, how many times would you throw yourself with a few random PUGs against an organized small group farming a resource, getting your butts handed to you every time? How many times would you wipe before you decided to go do something else or call in reinforcements?

In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call in reinforcements against a premade group you can't handle. In Battlegrounds, your only option is to stop playing or keep throwing yourself at them to get farmed.

Its demoralizing for a player queuing with random teammates to run into the same group, over and over, getting farmed with no option to play solely against other randomly-formed teams.

Saying "then get your own pre-made together" is basically saying "Get friends who like Battlegrounds, get voice comms, get gear and builds that mesh together, and get good - now its your turn to smash random PUGs!" AKA not very helpful to a random player who'd like to not get farmed repeatedly by the same pre-made groups while queuing with other random players.

to me it sounds more like a l2p and l2socialize issue.
and actually on ur last part u already got the problem. it is very helpfull. why should other people play worse so random pugs which dont want to learn how to play a content feel better?

Sound like a l2listen and l2 not be self centered and narrow minded issue. Have fun farming pugs for ap with no resistance

Anotherone773

Dont_do_drugs wrote: »

VaranisArano wrote: »

Nobody quits Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by a good group.

People quit Battlegrounds when they get stomped on by the same group, over and over again, that they and their random teammates have little to no change of beating and they have no option of queuing against other random teams so as to not encounter that pre-made group they can't beat.

In terms of Cyrodiil, how many times would you throw yourself with a few random PUGs against an organized small group farming a resource, getting your butts handed to you every time? How many times would you wipe before you decided to go do something else or call in reinforcements?

In Cyrodiil, you can walk away or call in reinforcements against a premade group you can't handle. In Battlegrounds, your only option is to stop playing or keep throwing yourself at them to get farmed.

Its demoralizing for a player queuing with random teammates to run into the same group, over and over, getting farmed with no option to play solely against other randomly-formed teams.

Saying "then get your own pre-made together" is basically saying "Get friends who like Battlegrounds, get voice comms, get gear and builds that mesh together, and get good - now its your turn to smash random PUGs!" AKA not very helpful to a random player who'd like to not get farmed repeatedly by the same pre-made groups while queuing with other random players.

to me it sounds more like a l2p and l2socialize issue.
and actually on ur last part u already got the problem. it is very helpfull. why should other people play worse so random pugs which dont want to learn how to play a content feel better?

L2p = what people say when they have nothing of value to contribute and cannot come up with a reasonable argument against something. They simply say "L2P".

You know the premades could L2P and then they wouldnt need the crutch of preformed groups, voice coms, dedicated heals, group buffs, etc. Maybe premades should play on our level and quit playing the game in easy mode.