Super Chill TES Discord Server - LGBTQ Friendly!

Bobby_V_Rockit

Samadhi wrote: »

TheRiversEdge wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

that's great to see the eso community, provide a community for so many people...

just wondering - what does the q stand for?

I'm glad!!! And the Q technically isn't an official part of the acronym but it covers a lot of bases so it's used often. It stands for qu*er which is a term a lot of people in the LGBT community have reclaimed for themselves.

In Canada, it has been extended to LGBTQ2
in order to include a traditional classification of individuals from First Nations
known as "two spirited"

Do not use Discord much, but may very well look into joining
thank you for sharing

In Australia it’s something like LGBTQIA+ now I believe.

Gandrhulf_Harbard

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you want people to tolerate you, you have to start by tolerating them. That is a two way street. If you treat all straight people with hostility not only do you make them react in a hostile way but you set a bad example and defeat your goal of acceptance. How can i accept someone who is being hostile to me for no apparent reason?

^ This.

So much this.

Far, far, far, far too many people demand "tolerance" of their "in crowd" but steadfastly refuse to offer it to anyone outside of that "in crowd".

They don't actually want "tolerance" at all, what they want is their particular brand of intolerance to be protected, and all others to be eradicated.

All The Best

greylox

Hey at least no one's used the homophobes favourite word 'agenda'. And I can't see anywhere on the thread that was saying only LGBT people can join, some people need more chill.

Chaos2088

As someone who is a gay man reading all of this.

I am literally confounded why people have got offended.

Who cares.....if someone even wants to open a discord of people who like eating oranges in a penguin suit, let them..

If you don't understand why LGBT+ have to add LGBT friendly to stuff, then I applaud you for being so innocent.(not a dig at anyone, just a viewpoint)

We do not live in a world where LGBT people are fully accepted...lets just face it, we arn't. There was a post a few up from this one about people getting uncomfortable/ignoring you if you even go into that spectrum of conversation. I have had personal experience with this, nothing new. Couldn't care to be honest. Even had some people ask me to leave a trial group based on people being uncomfortable with playing with me....*faceplam*

I 100% agree with being visible and not segregating totally, I would love to join anything and it not be an issue. But in some cases it really can be, some people just do not know how to have a conversation with someone different. You do need to be apart of a conversation to be counted yes, but this is not what OP was stating, they wanted to created an environment that is LGBT friendly.....that's it....nothing more..

I would love to live in a world where this just not has to be the case, but this whole thread is an example to why it happens..

Last note: A LGBT+ person or any other human being for that matter is not your automatic teacher/corrector for you. Also to LGBT+ people get the fact there are some people who do not understand, having a go will solve nothing.

Be patient and respect each other, we are all human.

Jade1986

Ackwalan wrote: »

Jade1986 wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

ZOS_RyanM wrote: »

We have removed several posts that were inappropriate and causing disruption. Please avoid turning a thread about a discord community into a debate and discussion on real-word issues. The forum is meant to be a friendly and welcoming atmosphere for all people. Please take a moment before you post to consider if what you are about to say will add any value. If what you are going to say is going to cause unnecessarily conflict, it is best if you don't post it at all.

What a perfect example demonstrating the problems of saying a guild is LGBT friendly. Anything less then praise, is considered inappropriate. Thus creating a hostile environment.

Well, go to some threads about french guilds, russian guilds, etc, and say you arent ok with that, see how you are recieved, its like that with all of these types of threads. You dont get to be aggressive and expect a hug.

language isn't a lifestyle or feeling, it is language. Have a guild that speaks a language is just that and nothing more. You are comparing apples and oranges.

and being born gay, or trans isnt a lifestyle, its just how we are. So again. Its the same thing. And in fact, languages you can learn, you cant become un gay, or un trans. You are or you arent.

I joined this discord server, and they are seriously super nice. You dont have to have anxiety thinking " will somone disapprove and make a big deal out if it ", you can just be. And that is very relaxing.

Bobby_V_Rockit

It has always confused me somewhat that a persons real life attributes effect the game socially. Noones ever asked me what my sex religion or sexual orientation is, frankly I dont see why I would ever feel the need to bring it up.

ZOS_MattL

We have removed several comments that served no purpose but to bait other users. This thread is not for discussion of real world issues. Keep any and all future posts in this thread related to the original topic.

Wrubius_Coronaria

Simply, if the thread and this group bother so much, (and if you have some problems for accept this group), then feel free to leave the thread and stop posting comments.

I don't understand why it's an issue when a discord (guild of whatever) gathering people having in common something with LGBT is seen as something problematic. It's not different of others groups and guilds that we can see in game or in guild recruitment forum. (roleplayers, based in differents interests and criteras,etc...)

Or if you are tolerant or open minded and not here for post any unrespectful comments, feel free to join.

JJBoomer

LOL the tolerance argument.

"How can LGBT+ people want tolerance if they are not willing to tolerate that I hate them and wished they didn't exist? How intolerant of them!"

Yeah and proud of it. I'm glad that our intolerance of your hatred, bigotry and ignorance makes you upset. And frankly, it's necessary to specify a community is LGBT+ friendly because it weeds out people using this argument from joining that community and bringing it's value down.

Samadhi

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

It has always confused me somewhat that a persons real life attributes effect the game socially. Noones ever asked me what my sex religion or sexual orientation is, frankly I dont see why I would ever feel the need to bring it up.

No one has directly asked me either

have however, in previous games,
had incidences where making a passing mention of "my girlfriend"
resulted in "wait you're a lesbian" and being blocked on friend's lists

studied World Religions in university,
some communities are open to discussion on how religious beliefs impact social structures
other guilds have kicked me out

hell, have been kicked out of a guild for having a medical cannabis license from my country's government
on the basis that the guild leader said it made me a druggy
(despite him having never spoken to me while sober prior to that; and having no actual basis for comparison)
but that is something that has gotten less problematic over the years
with various other parts of the world moving to recognize medical systems as well

the reality is, for every nice and accepting gamer there is out there
there is also some underdeveloped individual spewing slurs and hating on people for inalienable traits
it is nice to join a community and know they will not turn around and judge or abandon you for things that you should not have to bring up
but that come up in casual conversation

Samadhi

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

TheRiversEdge wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

that's great to see the eso community, provide a community for so many people...

just wondering - what does the q stand for?

I'm glad!!! And the Q technically isn't an official part of the acronym but it covers a lot of bases so it's used often. It stands for qu*er which is a term a lot of people in the LGBT community have reclaimed for themselves.

In Canada, it has been extended to LGBTQ2
in order to include a traditional classification of individuals from First Nations
known as "two spirited"

Do not use Discord much, but may very well look into joining
thank you for sharing

In Australia it’s something like LGBTQIA+ now I believe.

Are you familiar with what the IA stands for
and whether it is culturally specific?

Two-spirited is a traditional belief about gender and social roles in Native American (First Nations) communities in Canada
it apparently traces back to before Europeans arriving in Canada; and it is a culturally embedded term in the modern day
such that Indigenous communities disapprove of non-Native individuals attempting to describe themselves as two-spirited
while not being a part of the 'larger system' of beliefs it is contained within

it has been included as LGBTQ2+ in Canada as a show of solidarity and respect for the First Nations community
who are also a rather vulnerable community in the larger social sphere

coop500

I find the title of this thread to be very amusing compared to what the thread became...

'Super chill'
*Everyone proceeds to lose their heads and is everything but super chill*

On the other hand, I plan to join the discord and see how it goes.

TheRealPotoroo

Samadhi wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Samadhi wrote: »

TheRiversEdge wrote: »

geonsocal wrote: »

that's great to see the eso community, provide a community for so many people...

just wondering - what does the q stand for?

I'm glad!!! And the Q technically isn't an official part of the acronym but it covers a lot of bases so it's used often. It stands for qu*er which is a term a lot of people in the LGBT community have reclaimed for themselves.

In Canada, it has been extended to LGBTQ2
in order to include a traditional classification of individuals from First Nations
known as "two spirited"

Do not use Discord much, but may very well look into joining
thank you for sharing

In Australia it’s something like LGBTQIA+ now I believe.

Are you familiar with what the IA stands for
and whether it is culturally specific?

Intersex, Asexual.

Anotherone773

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you want people to tolerate you, you have to start by tolerating them. That is a two way street. If you treat all straight people with hostility not only do you make them react in a hostile way but you set a bad example and defeat your goal of acceptance. How can i accept someone who is being hostile to me for no apparent reason?

^ This.

So much this.

Far, far, far, far too many people demand "tolerance" of their "in crowd" but steadfastly refuse to offer it to anyone outside of that "in crowd".

They don't actually want "tolerance" at all, what they want is their particular brand of intolerance to be protected, and all others to be eradicated.

All The Best

And this is my major problem with many in this thread. Someone asked a legit question about "why does your group need a special place in a game. No other group needs or does that". It is a legit question. As in why is your minority so special. Another poster gave an answer that "outsiders" could understand instead of just replying with hostility and it cleared the question up for me and probably many others.

I then tried to explain to the "in crowd" why the "out crowd" doesnt understand followed by that posters explanation to show what helps us understand why you feel you need such a group. That was also met with a bunch of hostility by the "in crowd"

I dont know if LGBTQ members on here are overly sensitive or just like to warrior because they can hide behind a PC, but a large majority of the LGBTQ are not so hostile towards people not in their group. Both my wife and i interact with them regularly in real life and we have never been met with the hostility i have seen in this thread from the same group. We find them quite fun and pleasant people to be around which is a far cry from what ive seen in this thread.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Who cares.....if someone even wants to open a discord of people who like eating oranges in a penguin suit, let them..

If you don't understand why LGBT+ have to add LGBT friendly to stuff, then I applaud you for being so innocent.(not a dig at anyone, just a viewpoint)

I think the problem many people have with this is you have YOUR group who get to have their space and by all intents and purposes special treatment. Many groups dont get that privilege. And your group, on here, has proven to be hostile to anyone not in your group, asking questions, or doesnt immediately fall in line with your group's sub culture. Your group wants tolerance and acceptance, but in this thread that same group cant even tolerate questions being asked or accept that people genuinely dont understand. I mean i have experience with your group and i have to constantly look terms up because your inventing new ones pretty much every week. And you use things like CiS. That may be your term for me, but that doesnt mean i know it. That term outside of the context your group uses it for, is completely irrelevant in my life and didnt even exist in my life until this thread. Which is absolutely ridiculous in itself. You get to decide what terms are used for you and for me both.

Most people not in your group, even the ones who are generally friendly and supportive of the general premise of it dont always understand. Its a very complex group of people with a lot of variations within the same group and the entire group is fluid in its members, so its both complex and ever changing. It makes it hard for people that arent in the group to understand and keep up even if we are friendly and interact with some of your members regularly. Also we are not all from parts of the world where LGBTQ is prevalent. You just assume that everywhere is like where you are, but most of the world probably isnt even close to your specific everyday experience.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

We do not live in a world where LGBT people are fully accepted...lets just face it, we arn't. There was a post a few up from this one about people getting uncomfortable/ignoring you if you even go into that spectrum of conversation. I have had personal experience with this, nothing new. Couldn't care to be honest. Even had some people ask me to leave a trial group based on people being uncomfortable with playing with me....*faceplam*

Im sorry that people are like that, but that problem is not exclusive to your group. And this is a problem for many non members of your group. Your problems and struggles are not exclusive to your group, but you claim them as if you are the only group to experience these issues. Your group just makes a bigger deal out of them and honestly in many ways you are a large "sub culture/group" than many of us may be in so you have a better ability to get away with it. The rest of us just have to ignore it and deal with and get on with our lives. I just learned a lot of tolerance for others because i have no choice but to tolerate their criticism, judgement, or prejudices about my groups. I dont get to really ever "come out", because i am actually in a very small minority. And the first thing people jump on is what they heard even though that is usually not even close to accurate.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

but this is not what OP was stating, they wanted to created an environment that is LGBT friendly.....that's it....nothing more..

But that same group is being hostile to "outsiders", calling anyone who doesnt fall in step immediately a troll and other such things. From my perspective this would be me like me creating a group called " Straight people and friends" and then being hostile to every LGBTQ that said something in the thread even if they were generally interested. In fact i bet that group wouldnt make it a full day with an advertisement thread like this one.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Last note: A LGBT+ person or any other human being for that matter is not your automatic teacher/corrector for you. Also to LGBT+ people get the fact there are some people who do not understand, having a go will solve nothing.

Yes you are. Especially in a group that changes as much as yours does. Im sure people within your group teach you how to interact with them. If you were a gay man 20 -30 years ago you didnt have to worry about all the terms for other members of your group that you do now. The same applies to everyone else in the world.

Do you want to teach us "from the horses mouth" or do you want us to google it? Because if you want me to google stuff then its going to go badly for you. For one thing i have to sort through( ive tried) pages of information that isnt even relevant to what i want to know. And then i could happen on any article or site that may or may not be accurate or prejudice towards you. Do you want google to be the teacher of your movement? Because if you do, its going to be a much rougher road for you.

I am a straight white guy, this is the first thing everyone see about me, so they automatically assume im in the majority and have life easy. But i belong to two minority "groups/sub cultures". These i dont let them see. But when i do let someone see, its either met with hostility, judgement, disdain, attempts at "conversion", and other such things i am sure you are familiar with. Sometimes, just sometimes, they will ask me questions about it. And i will answer happily. Its better that i explain it and they dont get the wrong information than take my chances and let them get the info somewhere else. Yes its a pain in the ass having to explain my choices, preferences, beliefs, ideals, etc over and over to people one person at a time. But its the only sure way to make sure they get the right information about me, my group, and why it exists.

As a final note, do remember that your issues, struggle, problems, and the abuses you suffer are not exclusive to you or your group. Your members seem to forget that you dont have the patent on such things.

* Many people struggle with intolerance about something about them, not just the groups you see in the news.
* Many people struggle with being victims of hate, not just the ones in your group.
* Many people struggle with having to hide parts of them from all but a very few who they cantrust. Many dont even get the privilege you do in LGBTQ, they just have to hide and occasionally get to meet with a few people like them. Definitely dont get to march down main street holding a banner with the group name on it. The reason you get to is because their is so many of you.
* Many of our groups are so shunned, we wouldnt survive on most inet forums, little lone a game forum.
* Many of us have to endure uncomfortable situations in which a majority group who is completely oblivious to anyone or their beliefs, ideals, or preferences goes on and on as if they are the only group on the planet. We have to sit there and just listen to them, and you really want to give it to them both barrels, but you know if you do, others are going to pile on you and now your not defending yourself against one person, but a dozen.

I can go on but i hope people who read this LGBTQ or not get the point. Just because a struggle is your struggle doesnt mean its exclusive to your group. You dont own that problem or struggle. So dont immediately pre judge others not in your group as " not capable of understanding". You would be surprised at how many people can relate if you give them the chance and they have an open mind.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

No matter how many times I read this thread, I’m still confused by the responses this got and still gets.

bellatrixed

I'm not straight but have always disliked the concept of LGBT guilds/communities... because it's 2018, every community should be LGBT friendly.

Virtually every community has rules about no harassment--people who are hostile about LGBT issues are told to STFU or get out in every community I've ever found that's worth being a part of.

Furthermore, being in an LGBT community is not a guarantee that you won't face discrimination. I have trans friends with so many stories about facing discrimination from the gay community, for example.

Maybe it's because I run a roleplay guild, which are generally more accepting, but we literally have more gay/bi/trans members than we do straight members, and yet have never advertised as LGBT friendly.

This ^^^^^^^^ is why many people question the need for an LGBT community. Bigotry, especially in online gaming communities, should NOT be accepted or condoned by ANY community.

HOWEVER, every single community has the right to advertise how they wish, so I wish the OP group the best of luck. But I also don't think commentary and questions are out of line. A lot of people just genuinely don't understand.

emilyhyoyeon

bellatrixed wrote: »

Furthermore, being in an LGBT community is not a guarantee that you won't face discrimination. I have trans friends with so many stories about facing discrimination from the gay community, for example.

If something is advertised as LGBT+ friendly, then there should be no one, for ex. from the gay community, who discriminates against trans people, so it doesn't matter if non-LGBT+ friendly gay people exist, because they wouldn't be "allowed" in an LGBT+ friendly place.

So to clarify, LGBT+ friendly doesn't mean "only for LGBT+ people even if they are bigoted"

Jade1986

JJBoomer wrote: »

LOL the tolerance argument.

"How can LGBT+ people want tolerance if they are not willing to tolerate that I hate them and wished they didn't exist? How intolerant of them!"

Yeah and proud of it. I'm glad that our intolerance of your hatred, bigotry and ignorance makes you upset. And frankly, it's necessary to specify a community is LGBT+ friendly because it weeds out people using this argument from joining that community and bringing it's value down.

This to the T. lol. " If I am not allowed to hate you, then you are cleary the intolerant one "

Saywut?

bellatrixed wrote: »

I'm not straight but have always disliked the concept of LGBT guilds/communities... because it's 2018, every community should be LGBT friendly.

Virtually every community has rules about no harassment--people who are hostile about LGBT issues are told to STFU or get out in every community I've ever found that's worth being a part of.

Furthermore, being in an LGBT community is not a guarantee that you won't face discrimination. I have trans friends with so many stories about facing discrimination from the gay community, for example.

Maybe it's because I run a roleplay guild, which are generally more accepting, but we literally have more gay/bi/trans members than we do straight members, and yet have never advertised as LGBT friendly.

This ^^^^^^^^ is why many people question the need for an LGBT community. Bigotry, especially in online gaming communities, should NOT be accepted or condoned by ANY community.

HOWEVER, every single community has the right to advertise how they wish, so I wish the OP group the best of luck. But I also don't think commentary and questions are out of line. A lot of people just genuinely don't understand.

There are a lot of things in this world that should be normal and no problem, yet here we are, people making a big deal about a discord channel.

Nihility42

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Who cares.....if someone even wants to open a discord of people who like eating oranges in a penguin suit, let them..

If you don't understand why LGBT+ have to add LGBT friendly to stuff, then I applaud you for being so innocent.(not a dig at anyone, just a viewpoint)

I think the problem many people have with this is you have YOUR group who get to have their space and by all intents and purposes special treatment. Many groups dont get that privilege. And your group, on here, has proven to be hostile to anyone not in your group, asking questions, or doesnt immediately fall in line with your group's sub culture. Your group wants tolerance and acceptance, but in this thread that same group cant even tolerate questions being asked or accept that people genuinely dont understand. I mean i have experience with your group and i have to constantly look terms up because your inventing new ones pretty much every week. And you use things like CiS. That may be your term for me, but that doesnt mean i know it. That term outside of the context your group uses it for, is completely irrelevant in my life and didnt even exist in my life until this thread. Which is absolutely ridiculous in itself. You get to decide what terms are used for you and for me both.

Most people not in your group, even the ones who are generally friendly and supportive of the general premise of it dont always understand. Its a very complex group of people with a lot of variations within the same group and the entire group is fluid in its members, so its both complex and ever changing. It makes it hard for people that arent in the group to understand and keep up even if we are friendly and interact with some of your members regularly. Also we are not all from parts of the world where LGBTQ is prevalent. You just assume that everywhere is like where you are, but most of the world probably isnt even close to your specific everyday experience.

You act as if this Discord community is a privilege magically granted to the LGBTQ+ members and somehow exclusive to them. "Many groups dont get that privilege." Like what groups? Unless a group is a hate group or otherwise would somehow break Discord's rules, how do they not get the privilege to create their own community if they choose?

Furthermore, I understand that the perceived hostility is off-putting, but even in this thread you can see a number of people questioning why this group exists and being what could be perceived to be confrontational. For members of a marginalized group that often faces hostility and discrimination in the gaming community, it's easy to see why they don't respond favorably.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Chaos2088 wrote: »

but this is not what OP was stating, they wanted to created an environment that is LGBT friendly.....that's it....nothing more..

But that same group is being hostile to "outsiders", calling anyone who doesnt fall in step immediately a troll and other such things. From my perspective this would be me like me creating a group called " Straight people and friends" and then being hostile to every LGBTQ that said something in the thread even if they were generally interested. In fact i bet that group wouldnt make it a full day with an advertisement thread like this one.

If you actually think that a group specifically for straight people is acceptable or equivalent, you are more ignorant than you'd like to believe. Every group is a group for straight people. We are considered the default, all spaces are our spaces by default and even more so in gaming. A minority looking to create their own space carved out from our overwhelming presence (and not excluding us as straight people either) is radically different from a majority group excluding a marginalized minority.

Anotherone773 wrote: »

I am a straight white guy, this is the first thing everyone see about me, so they automatically assume im in the majority and have life easy. But i belong to two minority "groups/sub cultures". These i dont let them see. But when i do let someone see, its either met with hostility, judgement, disdain, attempts at "conversion", and other such things i am sure you are familiar with. Sometimes, just sometimes, they will ask me questions about it. And i will answer happily. Its better that i explain it and they dont get the wrong information than take my chances and let them get the info somewhere else. Yes its a pain in the ass having to explain my choices, preferences, beliefs, ideals, etc over and over to people one person at a time. But its the only sure way to make sure they get the right information about me, my group, and why it exists.

As a final note, do remember that your issues, struggle, problems, and the abuses you suffer are not exclusive to you or your group. Your members seem to forget that you dont have the patent on such things.

* Many people struggle with intolerance about something about them, not just the groups you see in the news.
* Many people struggle with being victims of hate, not just the ones in your group.
* Many people struggle with having to hide parts of them from all but a very few who they cantrust. Many dont even get the privilege you do in LGBTQ, they just have to hide and occasionally get to meet with a few people like them. Definitely dont get to march down main street holding a banner with the group name on it. The reason you get to is because their is so many of you.
* Many of our groups are so shunned, we wouldnt survive on most inet forums, little lone a game forum.
* Many of us have to endure uncomfortable situations in which a majority group who is completely oblivious to anyone or their beliefs, ideals, or preferences goes on and on as if they are the only group on the planet. We have to sit there and just listen to them, and you really want to give it to them both barrels, but you know if you do, others are going to pile on you and now your not defending yourself against one person, but a dozen.

I can go on but i hope people who read this LGBTQ or not get the point. Just because a struggle is your struggle doesnt mean its exclusive to your group. You dont own that problem or struggle. So dont immediately pre judge others not in your group as " not capable of understanding". You would be surprised at how many people can relate if you give them the chance and they have an open mind.

While I agree with all of your points, it's also important to recognize your own privilege. As a straight, white man you are part of an exceptionally privileged group. That is not to minimize any struggles you have or the importance of other minority groups you may belong to, but it's still important to understand. To use myself as a an example, I am an upper middle class, straight/cis, white man. I am literally one of the most privileged people in the entire world. I don't face the struggles that people of color, women, LGBTQ+ people, or those of less wealth face. I do suffer from mental illness and struggle with that, but I understand that even in that struggle I am privileged to be able to afford healthcare and to have the social and cultural allowances I do solely because of how I was born. I can understand struggle, but I can never understand the specific struggle of people from the aforementioned groups. I can, likely, never understand the specific struggle that you face as a member of your minority groups. I think it's important to make that distinction.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

bellatrixed wrote: »

A lot of people just genuinely don't understand.

This is really what confuses me. I don’t think people don’t understand, I think they don’t want to understand. It isn’t any different then saying 18+. People knows what that means. Yet they will still join and act like kids until they get the boot. And then they will whine about how they didn’t know.

Same thing here. The op didn’t say no one else was welcome. Just know that if you join this is how we expect you to act. Pretty clear. If you can’t understand something that simple, you may want to rethink playing multiplayer games, or maybe even going outside.

datgladiatah

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you want people to tolerate you, you have to start by tolerating them. That is a two way street. If you treat all straight people with hostility not only do you make them react in a hostile way but you set a bad example and defeat your goal of acceptance. How can i accept someone who is being hostile to me for no apparent reason?

^ This.

So much this.

Far, far, far, far too many people demand "tolerance" of their "in crowd" but steadfastly refuse to offer it to anyone outside of that "in crowd".

They don't actually want "tolerance" at all, what they want is their particular brand of intolerance to be protected, and all others to be eradicated.

All The Best

The idea that his questions were anything other than derailment is something that needs to be taken into context here. It was an advertisement to an LGBT guild. We're not obligated to explain why we wanted this, but most people still did, and he continued to loop the conversation around, over and over, acting like he wasn't being heard and that we were being aggressive. He didn't empathize with what we were saying. "tolerance is a two way street" but he never built that road to us to begin with

ZOS_Mika

Hey there everyone! This another reminder to remain civil and respectful. Our forums are meant to serve as a welcoming and open environment for anyone that wants to discuss ESO. Please keep this community standard in mind as this thread continues, and be sure that you are affording other community members the level of respect that you would want to receive yourself.

TheValar85

This is soo cool

Stewart1874

Interesting thread.

I'm in several guilds and the worst behaviour i've ever saw was a guy arguing - like really arguing, about a healer build. Told the GM to f-off and got kicked.

Whilst I can understand LGBT people would want to be amongst each other, I'd hope that would simply be a mechanism to meet other LGBT people and not some kind of self segregating. The vast majority of people have no issue with LGBT people and i'm of the opinion within a game its not relevant but it should be something that should be 'normalised' and therefore mixing with everybody is important. People are people, are people - the business of people is of no business to other people!

Anyway, point i'm getting at is ESO has a really friendly community and I'd hope this guild as i've said is merely a mechanism to meet other LGBT people and not a way of removing yourselves from mixing in with everybody else.

Best of luck

TheRiversEdge

@Stewart1874 Our server is LGBT-friendly, not LGBT-exclusive, just so you're aware.

Stewart1874

TheRiversEdge wrote: »

@Stewart1874 Our server is LGBT-friendly, not LGBT-exclusive, just so you're aware.

Awesome! Glad to hear it! Sometimes it seems like inclusivity is a one way street so its good to see you making the effort to include everyone not just the intended people.

Hope it takes off and you get decent numbers

thomas1970b16_ESO

Remember to not become so tolerant that you tolerant intolerance.

KJJ

We're beating around the bush a bit.

Let me tell you why I personally want to join an LGBT guild in any MMORPG: I play them for the social aspect. If I want pure game mechanics I'd play Dark Soul. Or Chess.

That means I want to chat about certain things. Game related, sure, that'll be maybe half of the discussions. The other half will be about, I don't know, gay relationships, dating, Rupaul's Drag Race, male celebs and their swimsuit photos, stuff. No different from a social guild asking for maturity level or family friendly conversations, it's about the conversation and the topics. You don't keep mentioning gay dating when only 10% of the people in the guild are even remotely interested --- come on, even if bigotry is not an issue, you just tend not to talk about it if you know others don't really care about such topics. You also don't really feel like talking about it when out of 50 people in the guild, maybe 5 share the same interests in topics, but they're not even online at the same time most of the time. It's a simple gathering of like minded individuals. Maybe I just want to hang around other LGBT people because I live in a small town where literally there's no one else like that around. Maybe I'm desperately looking to date someone who is both gay AND a gamer, which is next to impossible to find other than actually finding them in games.

People look for specific communities for many reasons. Some may be afraid of persecution, others just do it out of... Well... Common interest. I don't know how else to explain it. We have Chinatown because Chinese people eat and use stuff that often are not sold in other places. We have book clubs because not everyone want to read and discuss books. We have RP guilds for people who enjoy a particular style of gaming. We have family friendly guilds for people who want to keep chat topics within a certain range. Why is having an LGBT specific guild different?

There may be a point that we shouldn't make it FULLY about "safe place", it is not THAT unsafe in other guilds, but at the same time it is not always safe. Absolute argument in either way is moot. In any case that is not the only reason why someone would want to join a LGBT guild. Sometimes people question RP guilds too, arguing "why does there need to be RP guilds", sometimes people question the 18+ requirement. In this case they question the need for LGBT guilds. Well. Unless you can promise that everyone in your guild will entertain my constant topics of bulges and drag queens, I should find a guild where such topics are NOT stigmatizing in the chat, shouldn't I? It's simply a great solution for everyone. Remember that we can have MULTIPLE guilds in this game --- You can have one where you chat about PvE mechanics, one where you chat about PvP, one where you chat about RP stuff, one where you chat about LGBT stuff. Even one guild where you speak Spanish/French/German in. You can also chat and play with people outside of your guild, like, all the time. Nothing is restrictive here --- I mean, if you don't mind joining or at least listening to discussions about Lip Sync For Your Life for hours, I highly doubt any LGBT guilds will refuse your entry. Having the tag there is just so you know what is to be expected in the chat and in the interactions between the players there. It is also a way to "beacon" like minded individuals so that lively conversations about common interest topics can be had.

Kalebron

Anotherone773 wrote: »

Gandrhulf_Harbard wrote: »

Anotherone773 wrote: »

If you want people to tolerate you, you have to start by tolerating them. That is a two way street. If you treat all straight people with hostility not only do you make them react in a hostile way but you set a bad example and defeat your goal of acceptance. How can i accept someone who is being hostile to me for no apparent reason?

^ This.

So much this.

Far, far, far, far too many people demand "tolerance" of their "in crowd" but steadfastly refuse to offer it to anyone outside of that "in crowd".

They don't actually want "tolerance" at all, what they want is their particular brand of intolerance to be protected, and all others to be eradicated.

All The Best

And this is my major problem with many in this thread. Someone asked a legit question about "why does your group need a special place in a game. No other group needs or does that". It is a legit question. As in why is your minority so special. Another poster gave an answer that "outsiders" could understand instead of just replying with hostility and it cleared the question up for me and probably many others.

I then tried to explain to the "in crowd" why the "out crowd" doesnt understand followed by that posters explanation to show what helps us understand why you feel you need such a group. That was also met with a bunch of hostility by the "in crowd"

I dont know if LGBTQ members on here are overly sensitive or just like to warrior because they can hide behind a PC, but a large majority of the LGBTQ are not so hostile towards people not in their group. Both my wife and i interact with them regularly in real life and we have never been met with the hostility i have seen in this thread from the same group. We find them quite fun and pleasant people to be around which is a far cry from what ive seen in this thread.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Who cares.....if someone even wants to open a discord of people who like eating oranges in a penguin suit, let them..

If you don't understand why LGBT+ have to add LGBT friendly to stuff, then I applaud you for being so innocent.(not a dig at anyone, just a viewpoint)

I think the problem many people have with this is you have YOUR group who get to have their space and by all intents and purposes special treatment. Many groups dont get that privilege. And your group, on here, has proven to be hostile to anyone not in your group, asking questions, or doesnt immediately fall in line with your group's sub culture. Your group wants tolerance and acceptance, but in this thread that same group cant even tolerate questions being asked or accept that people genuinely dont understand. I mean i have experience with your group and i have to constantly look terms up because your inventing new ones pretty much every week. And you use things like CiS. That may be your term for me, but that doesnt mean i know it. That term outside of the context your group uses it for, is completely irrelevant in my life and didnt even exist in my life until this thread. Which is absolutely ridiculous in itself. You get to decide what terms are used for you and for me both.

Most people not in your group, even the ones who are generally friendly and supportive of the general premise of it dont always understand. Its a very complex group of people with a lot of variations within the same group and the entire group is fluid in its members, so its both complex and ever changing. It makes it hard for people that arent in the group to understand and keep up even if we are friendly and interact with some of your members regularly. Also we are not all from parts of the world where LGBTQ is prevalent. You just assume that everywhere is like where you are, but most of the world probably isnt even close to your specific everyday experience.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

We do not live in a world where LGBT people are fully accepted...lets just face it, we arn't. There was a post a few up from this one about people getting uncomfortable/ignoring you if you even go into that spectrum of conversation. I have had personal experience with this, nothing new. Couldn't care to be honest. Even had some people ask me to leave a trial group based on people being uncomfortable with playing with me....*faceplam*

Im sorry that people are like that, but that problem is not exclusive to your group. And this is a problem for many non members of your group. Your problems and struggles are not exclusive to your group, but you claim them as if you are the only group to experience these issues. Your group just makes a bigger deal out of them and honestly in many ways you are a large "sub culture/group" than many of us may be in so you have a better ability to get away with it. The rest of us just have to ignore it and deal with and get on with our lives. I just learned a lot of tolerance for others because i have no choice but to tolerate their criticism, judgement, or prejudices about my groups. I dont get to really ever "come out", because i am actually in a very small minority. And the first thing people jump on is what they heard even though that is usually not even close to accurate.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

but this is not what OP was stating, they wanted to created an environment that is LGBT friendly.....that's it....nothing more..

But that same group is being hostile to "outsiders", calling anyone who doesnt fall in step immediately a troll and other such things. From my perspective this would be me like me creating a group called " Straight people and friends" and then being hostile to every LGBTQ that said something in the thread even if they were generally interested. In fact i bet that group wouldnt make it a full day with an advertisement thread like this one.

Chaos2088 wrote: »

Last note: A LGBT+ person or any other human being for that matter is not your automatic teacher/corrector for you. Also to LGBT+ people get the fact there are some people who do not understand, having a go will solve nothing.

Yes you are. Especially in a group that changes as much as yours does. Im sure people within your group teach you how to interact with them. If you were a gay man 20 -30 years ago you didnt have to worry about all the terms for other members of your group that you do now. The same applies to everyone else in the world.

Do you want to teach us "from the horses mouth" or do you want us to google it? Because if you want me to google stuff then its going to go badly for you. For one thing i have to sort through( ive tried) pages of information that isnt even relevant to what i want to know. And then i could happen on any article or site that may or may not be accurate or prejudice towards you. Do you want google to be the teacher of your movement? Because if you do, its going to be a much rougher road for you.

I am a straight white guy, this is the first thing everyone see about me, so they automatically assume im in the majority and have life easy. But i belong to two minority "groups/sub cultures". These i dont let them see. But when i do let someone see, its either met with hostility, judgement, disdain, attempts at "conversion", and other such things i am sure you are familiar with. Sometimes, just sometimes, they will ask me questions about it. And i will answer happily. Its better that i explain it and they dont get the wrong information than take my chances and let them get the info somewhere else. Yes its a pain in the ass having to explain my choices, preferences, beliefs, ideals, etc over and over to people one person at a time. But its the only sure way to make sure they get the right information about me, my group, and why it exists.

As a final note, do remember that your issues, struggle, problems, and the abuses you suffer are not exclusive to you or your group. Your members seem to forget that you dont have the patent on such things.

* Many people struggle with intolerance about something about them, not just the groups you see in the news.
* Many people struggle with being victims of hate, not just the ones in your group.
* Many people struggle with having to hide parts of them from all but a very few who they cantrust. Many dont even get the privilege you do in LGBTQ, they just have to hide and occasionally get to meet with a few people like them. Definitely dont get to march down main street holding a banner with the group name on it. The reason you get to is because their is so many of you.
* Many of our groups are so shunned, we wouldnt survive on most inet forums, little lone a game forum.
* Many of us have to endure uncomfortable situations in which a majority group who is completely oblivious to anyone or their beliefs, ideals, or preferences goes on and on as if they are the only group on the planet. We have to sit there and just listen to them, and you really want to give it to them both barrels, but you know if you do, others are going to pile on you and now your not defending yourself against one person, but a dozen.

I can go on but i hope people who read this LGBTQ or not get the point. Just because a struggle is your struggle doesnt mean its exclusive to your group. You dont own that problem or struggle. So dont immediately pre judge others not in your group as " not capable of understanding". You would be surprised at how many people can relate if you give them the chance and they have an open mind.

The main reason for an LGBTQA group is for feeling safe, safe to talk openly and honestly with another person of like or similar interests. I bet if I joined a straight guild and started talking about how my paramour and I had a wonderful honeymoon, many people would not be interested especially with details. Another main reason is just simply connecting with like-minded individuals or people with similar commonalities. Personally, I would never join a role-play guild because I don’t enjoy it. By the way, there are several female only groups too. I just don’t see any entitlement here. I just see people wanting to group with people who have similar interests. This was my 2 cents. It’s nice to have a topic but I am sure OP did not intend on the thread being hi-jacked by explanations for or reason to have LGBTQA. Everyone just needs to be happy.

Good job on the post.

TheRiversEdge

Updating just to mention this Discord is closed due to lack of activity, thank you for understanding.