Damm, its hard

Reedx

No not speaking of the below, but the game. Been playing eso for a long time, but always leave then comes back agein, but finaly i truly understand how dps really works, and *** man its NOT easy to master this game, first you must find your playstyle, then you need to find a build that matches your playstyle then you need to grin for the gear that matches your build and THEN you need to master animation cancelling and rotation... witch btw is a great way to have more in the game without creating new content, but holy *** its not easy to master.. ppl are able to do like 30k-50k dps and i am only able to do 10k xD but honstely its alot of fun to have something to strive for but hell man not easy.

So was wondering how do the hardcore and casuals feel about this, do you hate it or love it ?

SquareSausage

Dude, get a dummy man and practice your rotation

Yea I love learning new rotations etc but not on NB, damn that not fun.

DieAlteHexe

Not easy for me either. I've some disabilities that compound matters but I learned to laugh at myself. I've not bothered to check my DPS, might splurge on a test dummy just to see where I'm at.

I fail, I try, I fail some more, I laugh at myself and, yes, sometimes get frustrated but so long as it's FUN, I keep on keepin' on.

Beardimus

Skeletons kinda sucked the fun out of the game when they landed for me.

I'd cleared vMA loads etc vet DLC but my numbers werent great to my suprise. My mates called me OP but i was under 20k.

That Lead to obsession and I find the skeleton so dull. Yet also unrealistic I.e. Static target and rarely things are like that.

You can't manage what you don't measure tho!

I'm not into trials really, find them dull, and the DPS perfection is mainly needed for them. 30k was my next target then park it

I'm.also not a meta guy. Yet meta helps get easy DPS. Turn on scamp etc!

The way PvE has gone. And robotic DPS Bores me a bit. The robotic perfection etc. So much I then switched to PvP more and loved it as its more dynamic. Burst is what matters there for me.

Just my Experience. Don't let it stress you, ensure you can clear the content you want, that's what matters.

Valkysas154

master animation cancelling

They really need to fix that exploit

Reedx

Valkysas154 wrote: »

master animation cancelling

They really need to fix that exploit

So you dont think it adds skills to eso ? i mean its easy to press keys, but its harder to press skills and weapon swaps or light attack at the right time

Nestor

I have always said that if the mobs die before you do, your doing enough DPS.

For the most part this is true. There is a set of content, certain vet instances, that does put pressure on how much DPS you need to do to be successful. Of course competitive content can put even more pressure on the level of DPS you need to prevail.

So the DPS you need to depends on the content you do.

DieAlteHexe

Nestor wrote: »

I have always said that if the mobs die before you do, your doing enough DPS.

For the most part this is true. There is a set of content, certain vet instances, that does put pressure on how much DPS you need to do to be successful. Of course competitive content can put even more pressure on the level of DPS you need to prevail.

So the DPS you need to depends on the content you do.

That's how I've handled things since I about drove myself batty in EQ. If I can do what I set out to do, I'm good.

Also, accepting that there will usually be some content that is beyond my abilities. I'm not good enough for most grouping (physical limitations, reaction time sort of stuff) so I don't foist myself on groups aside from a few friends who don't mind overmuch if I'm just that tad too slow.

It's also why I make such lovely fodder in PvP. Hah.

jssriot

I much prefer practicing rotation, weaving, resource management and canceling on regular mobs myself. mainly because they die faster and I usually just practice certain combinations in my rotation since I don't rely on macros. I do practice on a dummy, but that's mainly to practice for longer fights. I think parsing is a little overrated. It's good to know what range you're normally hitting, and to use it to make sure you are getting the best out of your gear set-up and rotation. But some dps focus obsessively on numbers. Seriously, deepers, no one cares what your parse was on that last boss, so stop posting it in the group chat. Get a dog if you are that starved for approval and acceptance.

Numbers mean little if you can't prioritize your skills and targets in a fight. I'd rather run with a lower parsing dps that knows how to keep aoe and dots up, will run a support set and can change focus to get adds and rez's than Sir Posting My Parse Every 5 Seconds any day.

There's a lot to this game, yes. There always has been. That was the point from the start, what they wanted ESO to offer than other MMOs didn't.

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

[
Also, accepting that there will usually be some content that is beyond my abilities. I'm not good enough for most grouping (physical limitations, reaction time sort of stuff) so I don't foist myself on groups aside from a few friends who don't mind overmuch if I'm just that tad too slow.

It's also why I make such lovely fodder in PvP. Hah.

I do vet end game dps and I have repetitive stress injuries in both hands and forearms from years for being a guitarist. I also have Aspergers and along with that some frontal lobe issues that can make it challenging for me to shift my attention. But I cope. The trick is not to compare yourself to others and be patient with yourself. A lot of what goes into being good at pve is really anticipation: knowing what to do and what to expect. That takes time to learn, for anyone. It's just a matter of familiarizing yourself with the content, your skills, your build, etc. So don't think this is beyond you.

As for pvp, there are a lot that cannot be predicted from fight to fight, which is why resistances are muy importante in pvp. You don't always need to be fast to survive--just tough enough to last until your group gets the upper hand, or you can pop a pot, or you can get away. And any player can get good resistances--get the right gear (there's both dropped and crafted sets you can choose from), use the Lady stone, pick a race that has resistance passives, etc. You can be an "iron teddy bear"--tanky af but do little damage and still be of value in pvp because you can draw fire away from your group, or scout out locations, or stand on the ram and withstand oils being dumped on you, or be the person still alive and able to rez everyone else. I don't think many people get this about pvp in ESO--there is literally a place for nearly any kind of player in your typical Cyro pvp group.

Mureel

Wait....it's Hard?
I loves me some Rough Nightwood xD *gets her coat*

SirAndy

Skyper wrote: »

ppl are able to do like 30k-50k dps

Group buffed in a raid with a healer watching your back and a tank taking aggro, sure thing.

Sustained (!) SOLO (and by that i actually mean just you alone all by yourself) on a dummy, 30k is pushing it.

SOLO (and by that i actually mean just you alone all by yourself) in a VET dungeon where you have to block, dodge, self-buff, run in circles, attack, jump, sprint and curse like a sailor, nobody gets sustained 30k.


So once you understand what the DPS numbers that people throw out actually mean (hint, it rhymes with epeen), none of this looks quite as daunting anymore.

Nihility42

I love it. I think it adds a lot to the game and the first time you parse 20k or 30k it's really cool. Makes you feel good about your skills and progress. Even better when you go in a dungeon and can still hit good numbers, or even hot much higher numbers with support buffs.

DieAlteHexe

jssriot wrote: »

...

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

[
Also, accepting that there will usually be some content that is beyond my abilities. I'm not good enough for most grouping (physical limitations, reaction time sort of stuff) so I don't foist myself on groups aside from a few friends who don't mind overmuch if I'm just that tad too slow.

It's also why I make such lovely fodder in PvP. Hah.

I do vet end game dps and I have repetitive stress injuries in both hands and forearms from years for being a guitarist. I also have Aspergers and along with that some frontal lobe issues that can make it challenging for me to shift my attention. But I cope. The trick is not to compare yourself to others and be patient with yourself. A lot of what goes into being good at pve is really anticipation: knowing what to do and what to expect. That takes time to learn, for anyone. It's just a matter of familiarizing yourself with the content, your skills, your build, etc. So don't think this is beyond you.

As for pvp, there are a lot that cannot be predicted from fight to fight, which is why resistances are muy importante in pvp. You don't always need to be fast to survive--just tough enough to last until your group gets the upper hand, or you can pop a pot, or you can get away. And any player can get good resistances--get the right gear (there's both dropped and crafted sets you can choose from), use the Lady stone, pick a race that has resistance passives, etc. You can be an "iron teddy bear"--tanky af but do little damage and still be of value in pvp because you can draw fire away from your group, or scout out locations, or stand on the ram and withstand oils being dumped on you, or be the person still alive and able to rez everyone else. I don't think many people get this about pvp in ESO--there is literally a place for nearly any kind of player in your typical Cyro pvp group.

True enough but when I simply cannot do something, there's not "patience" involved. It just is the way it is. I do okay though, just not okay enough for most folk to want to hold up for me and I don't blame them one iota. I'm also one of those ditherers who wants to read everything, see everything etc. IOW, "annoying". LOL

PvP and I...ah, a long history. It's just not my thing, mainly because of the behaviour of so many. Not only the rude prats but the speed at which it all occurs. Sometimes I'd find myself sitting here thinking: WTF just happened? That's okay too as there is so much I can do and enjoy a lot. I'm not an asset unless I can do strict support work (like via crafting) that doesn't require fast reactions or moving around a lot. That's fun.

DieAlteHexe

Mureel wrote: »

Wait....it's Hard?
I loves me some Rough Nightwood xD *gets her coat*

For some of us, yes it is. You can now feel extra Über!

graybeardII

I dont care if its hard but why does the game not teach me the mechanics I need to know to compleat the content? Why do I need to spend money on a dummy I thought thats why i spent money on the game and not to spend hours practiceing rotations and spend hours online and in youtub to figure out what I need to know I bought the game to play and have fun not to spend my game time on the Internet to learn how to play for crying out loud by the time I get to cp 230 on my magsorc I should know how to play at that lvl.so my next post will be to ask a guild, a group or a few good friends to help me figure all this out.
Have a great day. I plan to

Mureel

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Wait....it's Hard?
I loves me some Rough Nightwood xD *gets her coat*

For some of us, yes it is. You can now feel extra Über!

Oh hunny, I wasn't talking about dps ;-)

DieAlteHexe

Mureel wrote: »

DieAlteHexe wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Wait....it's Hard?
I loves me some Rough Nightwood xD *gets her coat*

For some of us, yes it is. You can now feel extra Über!

Oh hunny, I wasn't talking about dps ;-)

Hunny? Okay, young 'un.

And my comment was posted before your edit.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

I just wish the gulf had not gotten so big. As a casual old man I don’t care about rotations. Not going to learn them. Before the nerf storms I was running around 20-25k dps on all my classes. I have a stam/mag version of all the classes except warden.

Now I’m usually around 12-16k and everyone else seems to have gone up. Maybe I am slow to change. Or a crappy player I don’t know. But I did rotations a decade ago in wow. I thought we were trying to be something different here.

monktoasty

Don't forget then they nerf your build and you start all over again

xbobx

this seems like the perfect time to say,

"thats what your mom said."

Reedx

xbobx wrote: »

this seems like the perfect time to say,

"thats what your mom said."

ok

Reedx

SirAndy wrote: »

Skyper wrote: »

ppl are able to do like 30k-50k dps

Group buffed in a raid with a healer watching your back and a tank taking aggro, sure thing.

Sustained (!) SOLO (and by that i actually mean just you alone all by yourself) on a dummy, 30k is pushing it.

SOLO (and by that i actually mean just you alone all by yourself) in a VET dungeon where you have to block, dodge, self-buff, run in circles, attack, jump, sprint and curse like a sailor, nobody gets sustained 30k.


So once you understand what the DPS numbers that people throw out actually mean (hint, it rhymes with epeen), none of this looks quite as daunting anymore.

So you saying doing 10k dps on a dummy solo aint so bad ?

Wreuntzylla

If you have issues reaching 20k, find someone that parses high and talk it over.

At the 20k level, it's usually about staying on target and not rotation. You can build to hit 20k by spamming one skill. Rotation becomes important if you want to hit 30k.

Don't pay attention to people hitting 40-50k. They are doing it in trial type settings where bosses are debuffed and dps are heavily buffed. Not many, if any, are pulling over 30k on a target skelly parse.

Not being able to go over 10k means there is something systemically wrong.

thedude33

Nestor wrote: »

I have always said that if the mobs die before you do, your doing enough DPS.

For the most part this is true. There is a set of content, certain vet instances, that does put pressure on how much DPS you need to do to be successful. Of course competitive content can put even more pressure on the level of DPS you need to prevail.

So the DPS you need to depends on the content you do.

Agree.

My biggest problem for all these types of games ..hell life in general ...I'm a saver. Meaning I always like having something in reserve for when I need it. So I rarely use my Ulti for instance because I am waiting for the oh #@% moment when I actually need it. So yea, if I can win a fight without doing something drastic, I'm fine. Even though it takes a little longer.

boombazookajd

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Skyper wrote: »

Valkysas154 wrote: »

master animation cancelling

They really need to fix that exploit

So you dont think it adds skills to eso ? i mean its easy to press keys, but its harder to press skills and weapon swaps or light attack at the right time

That is not animation canceling, that is weaving. The two things are not the same thing. The only annimation canceling that is done at end game by elite DPS is bar swap canceling. Bar swap canceling is done by most of the population of the game without even realizing it, but with practice it can be perfected. 30K DPS on a dummy is perfectly doable without any type of AC, but if you want to break 40, your bar swap canceling will need to be above average.

Valkysas154 wrote: »

master animation cancelling

They really need to fix that exploit

News flash, you dont get to determine what is an exploit. The only people that can do that are the devs, and they simply dont agree with you are any of the other forum whiners. Remove the ability to bar swap or block cancel and this game's combat would be terrible. You would lose any ability to react to your opponent. If you want a game that rewards mindless button mashing, play something else.

Kalante

Skyper wrote: »

No not speaking of the below, but the game. Been playing eso for a long time, but always leave then comes back agein, but finaly i truly understand how dps really works, and *** man its NOT easy to master this game, first you must find your playstyle, then you need to find a build that matches your playstyle then you need to grin for the gear that matches your build and THEN you need to master animation cancelling and rotation... witch btw is a great way to have more in the game without creating new content, but holy *** its not easy to master.. ppl are able to do like 30k-50k dps and i am only able to do 10k xD but honstely its alot of fun to have something to strive for but hell man not easy.

So was wondering how do the hardcore and casuals feel about this, do you hate it or love it ?

Hardcore pvp'r here.

That's what sets apart the good players from trash such as the anti ani cancel jokesters that want the game to be slow set to their play style. If everyone was the same were no matter how good you are and there is nothing you can improve on because of the game's core mechanics are set to certain standards then the game would be very boring. All the levels of complexity eso has is what is keeping afloat and ani cancel is one of those things. It took me a while to master it and now that i can just makes the combat even more addicting and it feels good to beat someone else that also knows animation canceling. I hate this game but the combat keeps me coming back.

Tannus15

Skyper wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Skyper wrote: »

ppl are able to do like 30k-50k dps

Group buffed in a raid with a healer watching your back and a tank taking aggro, sure thing.

Sustained (!) SOLO (and by that i actually mean just you alone all by yourself) on a dummy, 30k is pushing it.

SOLO (and by that i actually mean just you alone all by yourself) in a VET dungeon where you have to block, dodge, self-buff, run in circles, attack, jump, sprint and curse like a sailor, nobody gets sustained 30k.


So once you understand what the DPS numbers that people throw out actually mean (hint, it rhymes with epeen), none of this looks quite as daunting anymore.

So you saying doing 10k dps on a dummy solo aint so bad ?

10k dps solo on the skelly is quite low, sorry to say, but it's a starting point, not an end point.

My advice is to focus on keeping up your AOE dot (endless hail for stam, elemental blockade for magi). Just get used to swapping to your backbar, casting that ability, swapping back to your front bar and spamming literally any skill with light attacks until the AOE is about to run out, then bar swap, recast and repeat.
That's the core of every dps rotation in the game.

If you're doing a stamina build and you don't have a bow on the back bar I highly recommend changing to it.

Other than that, have fun and keep improving friend!

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

If you have issues reaching 20k, find someone that parses high and talk it over.

At the 20k level, it's usually about staying on target and not rotation. You can build to hit 20k by spamming one skill. Rotation becomes important if you want to hit 30k.

Don't pay attention to people hitting 40-50k. They are doing it in trial type settings where bosses are debuffed and dps are heavily buffed. Not many, if any, are pulling over 30k on a target skelly parse.

Not being able to go over 10k means there is something systemically wrong.

I see people say this all the time. I could hit 20k just spamming 1 skill. But I never see a build or a video of anyone actually doing this. I would imagine if I ever do see a build, it would involve equipment that might not be the easiest to get at 10k dps. I tend to think this 1 skill spam statement is up there with the people who say they did 60k in the amount of truth it holds.

Smmokkee

I can parse 30k with an unoptimized build. Dummies are stupid easy and so is pve when it comes down to it.

Oreyn_Bearclaw

Wreuntzylla wrote: »

If you have issues reaching 20k, find someone that parses high and talk it over.

At the 20k level, it's usually about staying on target and not rotation. You can build to hit 20k by spamming one skill. Rotation becomes important if you want to hit 30k.

Don't pay attention to people hitting 40-50k. They are doing it in trial type settings where bosses are debuffed and dps are heavily buffed. Not many, if any, are pulling over 30k on a target skelly parse.

Not being able to go over 10k means there is something systemically wrong.

Agree and disagree.

I 100% agree that if 10k is your DPS on a dummy, you have a fundamental flaw in your build or rotation. That's okay, most people dont land on a meta build in their first try. Build is an easier fix than rotation, as rotations require practice, and in some cases, lots of it.

I do not agree that "Not many, if any, are pulling over 30k on a target skelly parse". Every class and spec in this game can pull over 30k on a 6million health dummy without any assistance. It does require a competent rotation and build, but you dont need to be a super hero to pull it off. I consider myself an above average DPS, but I know I am not breaking records. If I cant hit about 35k self buffed on a build, I wont play it in group content as a damage dealer. If you are breaking 40k on a 6 million dummy, and arent playing a heavy attack double pet sorc (super easy to break 40K), then you probably have some bragging rights.