Who is the strongest player controlled hero in the Elder Scrolls series?

Kiara

MisterBigglesworth wrote: »

Sure, Nerevarine can fly around at the speed of light...
Sure, Champion of Cyrodii can become literally invincible via spellcrafting...

...but Vestige is the only hero who can actually die and resurrect without reloading a save. Checkmate.

It still doesn't make him a Deadpool of Nirn though.

Seperatist

Vestige. Cuz why not? He did so many things, frustruating ones as well and it's definetly a really long-time journey. And yeah as mentioned above we can't be sure what happened what champion of cyrodill with that sheogorat thing.

Kiara

Seperatist wrote: »

Vestige. Cuz why not? He did so many things, frustruating ones as well and it's definetly a really long-time journey. And yeah as mentioned above we can't be sure what happened what champion of cyrodill with that sheogorat thing.

Edit: CoC is in fact Sheogorath you met in Skyrim:

http://elderscrolls.wikia.com/wiki/Thread:812671?useskin=oasis

Also, Vestige did most things with the help of other people around, including kings/generals, without them Vestive would not achieve that much, which is, for example, still less than Eternal Champion did (if we count stuff Vestige did alone without help).
And, by the way, it is not about who achieved more- but about who got the most of personal raw power. At least that's what the topic title says "Who is the strongest player controlled hero..."

Cardthief

Just to note here, Alduin isn't an actual god, while he is the first child of Akatosh, was tasked with the role of World-Eater, and power-wise is on the level of a god, he simply isn't one, it was the Nords that worshiped him as a god, which in turn stroked Alduin's ego, forsook his role as World-Eater, went on to try to concur Mundus, and proclaimed himself a god.

Sixty5

If we are going by feats alone, Vestige wins for taking down Molag Bal in single combat.

Daedra and Aedra are roughly equal in absolute power, with Alduin being a subset of Akatosh, and therefore weaker.
Thus we can infer Molag Bal > Alduin, and given that the Dragonborn needs help to beat Alduin (and has the aid of Dragonrend hax to do so) you can argue pretty strongly in favour of the Vestige.

And yes I know it was a temporary power boost, but we are arguing peak to peak feats.

An additional argument could be made for political power, in which case Vestige still wins because Emperor trumps everything else.

Kiara

Sixty5 wrote: »

If we are going by feats alone, Vestige wins for taking down Molag Bal in single combat.

Daedra and Aedra are roughly equal in absolute power, with Alduin being a subset of Akatosh, and therefore weaker.
Thus we can infer Molag Bal > Alduin, and given that the Dragonborn needs help to beat Alduin (and has the aid of Dragonrend hax to do so) you can argue pretty strongly in favour of the Vestige.

And yes I know it was a temporary power boost, but we are arguing peak to peak feats.

An additional argument could be made for political power, in which case Vestige still wins because Emperor trumps everything else.

Vestige also had help defeating Molag Balls actually. He/she used the powered Amulet of Kings to buff himself and he did so with the buff from another Daedra, Meridia.

Bear in mind that the only ones who soloed godlike entities in TES universe without any help were CoC who beaten Jyggalag in single combat (and this dude is feared even amongst other Daedra, hence why was cursed by 14 other Princes to be Sheo) and Nerevarine beating Almalexia, Vivec (determinant) and Dagoth Ur.

Cardthief

Kiara wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If we are going by feats alone, Vestige wins for taking down Molag Bal in single combat.

Daedra and Aedra are roughly equal in absolute power, with Alduin being a subset of Akatosh, and therefore weaker.
Thus we can infer Molag Bal > Alduin, and given that the Dragonborn needs help to beat Alduin (and has the aid of Dragonrend hax to do so) you can argue pretty strongly in favour of the Vestige.

And yes I know it was a temporary power boost, but we are arguing peak to peak feats.

An additional argument could be made for political power, in which case Vestige still wins because Emperor trumps everything else.

Vestige also had help defeating Molag Balls actually. He/she used the powered Amulet of Kings to buff himself and he did so with the buff from another Daedra, Meridia.

Bear in mind that the only ones who soloed godlike entities in TES universe without any help were CoC who beaten Jyggalag in single combat (and this dude is feared even amongst other Daedra, hence why was cursed by 14 other Princes to be Sheo) and Nerevarine beating Almalexia, Vivec (determinant) and Dagoth Ur.

Almalexia doesn't really count as a god either, despite her power being on that level, and her title as a "living god" given by fellow Dunmer, only using power from the Heart of Lorkhan, she never achieved CHIM, as well as Sotha Sil straight up states that they arn't actual gods, its just what people worship them as (Though Vivec is a different case since he achieved CHIM), Almalexia lies to such an extent that she believes her own lies, while Vivec knows what truths and falsehoods he preaches (being a warrior-poet and all).

On another note, while I do agree that the Vestige is NOT the most powerful by any means, and did indeed receive aid from Akatosh and Meridia, that being said, they did manage to beat Molag Bal, one of the most powerful Daedric Princes, within his own realm of Coldharbour (A Daedric Prince in their own realm is at full power whereas if they were in another realm they would be weaker), it is no small feat, even with the aid of an Aedra (which to point out, while Aedra and Daedra were equal in power BEFORE the creation of Mundus, the Aedra gave up a portion of their power to create Mundus while the Daedra kept their full power (While it seems that Akatosh can certainly even the playing field when it comes to fighting Daedric Princes, that power diminishes with every use, Akatosh wont be able to aid mortals forever.

Kiara

Cardthief wrote: »

Kiara wrote: »

Sixty5 wrote: »

If we are going by feats alone, Vestige wins for taking down Molag Bal in single combat.

Daedra and Aedra are roughly equal in absolute power, with Alduin being a subset of Akatosh, and therefore weaker.
Thus we can infer Molag Bal > Alduin, and given that the Dragonborn needs help to beat Alduin (and has the aid of Dragonrend hax to do so) you can argue pretty strongly in favour of the Vestige.

And yes I know it was a temporary power boost, but we are arguing peak to peak feats.

An additional argument could be made for political power, in which case Vestige still wins because Emperor trumps everything else.

Vestige also had help defeating Molag Balls actually. He/she used the powered Amulet of Kings to buff himself and he did so with the buff from another Daedra, Meridia.

Bear in mind that the only ones who soloed godlike entities in TES universe without any help were CoC who beaten Jyggalag in single combat (and this dude is feared even amongst other Daedra, hence why was cursed by 14 other Princes to be Sheo) and Nerevarine beating Almalexia, Vivec (determinant) and Dagoth Ur.

Almalexia doesn't really count as a god either, despite her power being on that level, and her title as a "living god" given by fellow Dunmer, only using power from the Heart of Lorkhan, she never achieved CHIM, as well as Sotha Sil straight up states that they arn't actual gods, its just what people worship them as (Though Vivec is a different case since he achieved CHIM), Almalexia lies to such an extent that she believes her own lies, while Vivec knows what truths and falsehoods he preaches (being a warrior-poet and all).

On another note, while I do agree that the Vestige is NOT the most powerful by any means, and did indeed receive aid from Akatosh and Meridia, that being said, they did manage to beat Molag Bal, one of the most powerful Daedric Princes, within his own realm of Coldharbour (A Daedric Prince in their own realm is at full power whereas if they were in another realm they would be weaker), it is no small feat, even with the aid of an Aedra (which to point out, while Aedra and Daedra were equal in power BEFORE the creation of Mundus, the Aedra gave up a portion of their power to create Mundus while the Daedra kept their full power (While it seems that Akatosh can certainly even the playing field when it comes to fighting Daedric Princes, that power diminishes with every use, Akatosh wont be able to aid mortals forever.

That's why I stated "godlike entities", not gods. I thought it includes demigods aswell.

Yes, Vestige is very powerful for sure, kicking Molag Balls had to be hard (at least I imagine it as such, he was meh in-game). But I still believe he is weaker than CoC/Nerevarine (not sure about Dragonborn though).


We can only speculate about dimishing Akatosh power since he is strong enough to maintain the barrier impenetrable between Nirn and Oblivion forever after Oblivion Crisis.

The_Conjurer

In the games I have played, you receive help. CoC, you don't become Sheogorath. I would say that title you get is pretty high and you also become arch mage of the mages guild. You steal an elder scroll from the white gold tower for the Thieves guild and you also become the Gray Fox. Creating your own spells in TES IV makes you pretty unstoppable.

I think I defeated my own point... Not sure what I was trying to say. But killing Molag Bal is epic. It would have seemed unlikely if you defeated him without help from Akatosh. Just like Mehrunes Dagon wouldn't have been stopped without the amulet of kings.

Damien_Uvirith

Integral1900 wrote: »

The dragon borne killed a god after all, pretty much unaided

So did The Champion of Cyrodiil. And then BECAME that god.

Being first in line to rule an Empire that serves High Elves isn't really a plus, either. So MAYBE the Dragonborn could try to Tiber Septim it up and regain control of Tamriel, but he'd have to get GoT about it and involve dragons to win, since they could barely solve the Skyrim civil war with just 'mortal' armies.

In order of most to least powerful, would have to say:

-Champion of Cyrodiil (Kills a god, stops Mannimarco, becomes aforementioend murdered God, who was previously the most powerful of all Daedra)

-The Vestige (Defeats Mannimarco/Molag Bal (Obviously not forever), pretty much can't die. Is blessed by Meridia and holds sway among ALL factions of Tamriel (Not just the Nords and/or Imperials).

-The Nerevarine (Defeats Dagoth Ur and Almalexia. Unites the Ashlander tribes, uses Kragenac's divine tools on Lorkhan's heart so who knows if there are any long lasting repercussions from that.)

-The Dragonborn (Defeats Alduin, participates in the Skyrim civil war which goes nowhere really. Is mortal like everyone else and can die to disease, old age, etcetera. Would have significantly less power once Dragons are all hunted to extinction again (No more dragon soul harvesting). Might be in line for the Ruby Throne, for whatever that's worth with the Empire collapsed.)

Note: Not including any serving Daedra or leading the Mage/Fighter's guilds as they would all have that in common. Also not including the Nerevarine joining any Great House and rising to prominence.

JamuThatsWho

The Champion of Cyrodiil/Hero of Kvatch; you become a literal Daedric Prince.

Mic1007

While mechanics-wise the Nerevarine was literally immortal by the end of the game, due to how powerful the character can become, the Champion of Cyrodiil lore-wise beats all others. You become Sheogorath.

The Dragonborn does win the favor of not only Shor by defeating Alduin, but most of the Daedric princes as well, so that is another contender. Though becoming a Daedric Prince is hard to beat.

Minalan

My vote goes to Stibbons of course!

swippy

Izaki wrote: »

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

Gosh I'm really torn between the Vestige and Dragonborn. It's more just what happens in the lore and stuff. I mean the Dragonborn can shout dragon stuff, kills pretty much the son of an Aedra, and could become the top of many groups anf factions. The Vestige thwarts several daedric princes, can freely port between a few planes of Oblivion, kicked the God of Brulatity's butt, can become a gosh darn high ranking military member, fight celestial beings, and just so much. And from the looks of it, the Vestige's soul (if you reclaim it) isn't really bound to any faction, daedra, or anything after death, so the Vestige can do stuff more freely with less consequences.

The Dragonborn takes out a living God literally single handed without any help from the Aedra.

i disagree. Dovahkiin had use of both hands during that fight, may be a Shezarrine, and definitely was Dragonborn.
both the latter should count as help from Aedra, as being an avatar of Shezarr doesn't hurt your chances, and it was made very clear that the dragon soul was granted by Akatosh.

Azurya

because he caught me, it was my first real PC-game
everything ever after besides the elderscrolls games were just disappointing

ghastley

No, CoC did not become Sheogorath. Sheo gave him his power, in order keep it from himself when he turned into Jyggalag. He says so in in-game dialogue. "You won't be me, but you'll have my power, try not to lose it." So Jyggy was much weakened when he was defeated. Sheogorath would have taken back his Princely power when the mortal CoC died, and got most of the CoC with it.

In all other cases of player character versus Daedric Prince, another Daedric Prince is doing the heavy lifting, and you can argue that CoC was actually Sheogorath versus himself.

Morrowind is harder to pin down, as Almalexia has "god-like" powers, and Dagoth Ur likewise, from the heart of Lorkhan, so they become Lorkhan avatars in the same way that CoC did for Sheogorath. It's not quite defeating the Prince directly, though.

Arena and Daggerfall don't put the player character in that situation at all. The opposition is all mortals and lesser daedra.

RinaldoGandolphi

The hero's are rated in power as follows:

1. Last Dragonborn
2. Cyrus the Redguard(TES:Redguard)
3. The Apprentice (TES:Battlespire)
4. The Neverarine
5. The Champion of Cyrodiil
6. The Eternal Champion
7. the Agent
8. the Vestige

. The Last Dragonborn is an aspect of Talos. This is stated numerous times in TES 5 not only do the Greybeards name you Ysmir(only two men in history have had that title, Talos, and the Last Dragonborn), but Hjalti-Early Beard's friend, the Ghost of Old Hroldran, recognizes the Last Dragonborn as as Hjalti confirming the player character is indeed an aspect of Talos..

Cyrus the Redguard is second on this list because he is a manifestation of Hoon-Ding, the Reguard God of "Make Way" that is not only the 2nd most powerful entity in TES universe. The Hoon-ding only comes around when the Redguards need to "Make Way" for their people. In Tamrielic history this has only happened three times: twice in the First Era during the Ra Gada invasion in the form of Hunding and Diagna, and once more during the Tiber Wars. its debated that HoonDing was either the young Redguard Crown Cyrus, or the sword enchanted with the soul of Prince A'tor, the last heir to the throne of Hammerfell, or, of course, both of them together. Regardless, Cyrus was the only non-dragonborn person to ever defeat a Red Dragon(Nafaalilargus) all by himself...when it took the Blade's entire contigents of men just to defeat one lesser dragon...Cyrus was strong....very, very, very strong...the Hoon-Ding would even give Talos a run for his money.

The Apprentice from TES Battlespire was most likely a Shezzarine, but not as much is known about his/her background. what we do know is the Apprentice went into Mehrunes Dagon's realm and actually defeat Dagon in the Deadlands WITHOUT the power or blessing or any God on Nirn. the Savior's hide did keep him/her from being paralyzed and from some of Dagon's magic, but the Apprentice flatout defeated him in his own realm. this is why He/She is rated higher then the Neverarine.

Thats my list, for obvious reasons. Everyone has their favorites though

Maxximus

Seeing how The Elder Scrolls II : Daggerfall - The Hero of Daggerfall got zero votes I'm guessing he sucks. I don't know much of the lore about Daggerfall though and was wondering if someone could explain a brief synopsis of The Hero of Daggerfall as well as The Eternal Champion.

ghastley

The first two games really didn't have "boss battles" in the way the later ones did. They just hadn't been invented yet.

What you did have were a lot of random mobs of varying strengths, and you could hit a nasty one at almost any time. They wouldn't be named adversaries, though, primarily because of the large number of randomised dungeons. The main quest line used the same mechanics, and the named characters all tended to be quest-givers, rather than targets.

MW2K

I'm going with the Eternal Champion of Arena here - and I suspect it's gotten few votes as most folks haven't tried the game.

Reasoning? You go all over Tamriel, delve into some of the most intricate and confusing dungeons ever put into a cRPG Hi Labyrinthian!), and emerge defeating the pretender and restoring the Septim line. None of the other games have quite that scope and breadth.

Plus, there are nostalgia reasons too.

WakeYourGhost

The Nerevarine can kill several beings believed to be Gods, survives an all-consuming disease, and.. Well, screw all that, if you count the really crazy spellcrafting glitch, you can get stats over 10k. Just.. Don't put speed over 100. It really ends poorly.

LickingHistSap

The Vestige is literally canonically immortal and unkillable. In quests, they've been described as the 'Soulless, Deathless one', and the only way to actually 'kill' the Vestige is to lock them up in Aetherius, as shown in the Daggerfall Covenant final quest. Plus, the Vestige is far more resilient than any of the other ones, considering they're made of Azura Plasm as opposed to actual flesh, meaning they can't even really lose a limb.

The only way for the Vestige to 'die' is to either banish them to Oblivion once the Dragonfires are relit, or for someone to trap them in Aetherius.

Rouven

@ZOS_Lawrence_Schick


Enlighten us!

Or throw something out there to confuse the heck out of us!

ak_pvp

LickingHistSap wrote: »

The Vestige is literally canonically immortal and unkillable. In quests, they've been described as the 'Soulless, Deathless one', and the only way to actually 'kill' the Vestige is to lock them up in Aetherius, as shown in the Daggerfall Covenant final quest. Plus, the Vestige is far more resilient than any of the other ones, considering they're made of Azura Plasm as opposed to actual flesh, meaning they can't even really lose a limb.

The only way for the Vestige to 'die' is to either banish them to Oblivion once the Dragonfires are relit, or for someone to trap them in Aetherius.

Can't even be banished. Due to now possessing the rest of their soul, as well as the daedric imitation created for their mind. I would probably put vestige above the nerevarine. The nerevarine killed some weakened gods with some tools, and is pretty damn strong, but he is immortal, not invincible, so whilst the vestige could come back and attack, nerevar cannot.

Similar with the dragonborn. Possessing in lore no cooldown on shouts and the strength of a dragon. (Dragon form is basically full dragon mode) but they are still mortal.

Only really sheo could 100% deal with the vestige, the rest would be stalemates at best. Also sheo is by far the most OP out of the bunch. A real god is 100% immortal/invincible, and even getting utterly BTFO by other gods is only a setback. Look at Lorkhan/Talos, Jyg, Molag-Bal. All required another gods interventions and they still aren't dead.

Konstant_Tel_Necris

Maxximus wrote: »

Seeing how The Elder Scrolls II : Daggerfall - The Hero of Daggerfall got zero votes I'm guessing he sucks. I don't know much of the lore about Daggerfall though and was wondering if someone could explain a brief synopsis of The Hero of Daggerfall as well as The Eternal Champion.

Because Agent was ordinary mortal without Chosen One prophecy or superpowers, he just do his job for Emperor or not, all variant become true after Warp of West, even variant where is Numidium kills him.

The Eternal Champion was also not a chosen hero, but he rescued Emperor and ended Imperial Simulacrum of Jagar Tharn, Great Deed for mortal hero.

VDoom1

A bit tricky. The Dragonborn defeated the first child of Akatosh, Alduin. But The Vestige defeated Molag Bal a Daedric Prince. If we are only looking at the greatest enemy defeated, I would have to say The Vestige.

In Oblivion it is actually Martin Septim who defeats Mehrunes Dagon. We just watch, weeee.

Checkmath

I am playing Elder Scrolls since Morrowind, so i can not rank the heroes of the titles before. Also the vestige is rather diificult to rank, since hi s rather weak compared to the others. Yes he is immortal, has some cool skills, but always was in need of help. That is why my ranking looks like this:

1. Champion of Cyrodiil
2. Nerevarine
3. Dragonborn

The champion of Cyrodiil defeated the most powerful and feared daedric prince (maybe weakened, but still incredible powerful) and ascended to a daedra. he also defeated the half-daedra Umaril.
The nerevarine is in my opinion second in strength and power. he was able to defeat false gods and also won over HIrcine, again a daedra.
The dragonborn comes in third, since he never encountered a daedra in a fight. yes he killed the world-eater Alduin with some help and more vicious enemies. but in the quest from Clavicus Vile, the daedra stated, that the dragonborn only has half of the power of a weakened daedra, which surely puts him after heroes, who defeated daedras.

TelvanniWizard

I´ve accomplished so much with my dragonborn.

Xvorg

The_Conjurer wrote: »

I think I defeated my own point... Not sure what I was trying to say. But killing Molag Bal is epic. It would have seemed unlikely if you defeated him without help from Akatosh. Just like Mehrunes Dagon wouldn't have been stopped without the amulet of kings.

Daedra can't be killed.

Xvorg

Checkmath wrote: »

The champion of Cyrodiil defeated the most powerful and feared daedric prince (maybe weakened, but still incredible powerful) and ascended to a daedra. he also defeated the half-daedra Umaril.

Wasn't Boromir who defeated Dagon? I'm quite sure he was... but could have been also Ned Stark... who knows?

edit: Maybe you are talking about Cyrolag, which is quite strong these days, but to do that he needed help from uncle Sheo