How many plain immortals have we encountered in the Elder Scrolls games?

WhiteCoatSyndrome

I use 'plain immortal' for lack of a better way to phrase it; I mean people or other mortal-by-default entities, who for whatever reason were prevented from dying indefinitely, but otherwise have no special powers or effects laid on them. Thus not things like Daedra, dragons or undead.

Dyus is one example; not transformed into anything just unable to die. As I recall Haras was in a similar position until the end of his quest ('not allowed to die until completing the hunt for the pale senche') and in Morrowind

Mistress Dratha after the appropriate quest.

I suspect there are more, so who am I forgetting?

Yakidafi

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

Gelebor? Also maybe Yagrum since he's only still alive due to corprus.

The Drake of Blades and Wilderking/Queen seem to be immortal as well, but probably violate the special powers condition.

starkerealm

Divayth Fyr may not technically be immortal, but he's in both ESO and the single player games, so...

Similarly, Neloth is effectively immortal. Though non-canon paths through Morrowind can result in his death (as I recall).

EDIT: There may be other members of House Telvanni that are effectively immortal due to magic, but it's not completely clear.

Credit to Mankar Camoran, who may not actually be immortal, but was around for the entirety of the third era.

Beyond this, the three members of the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur probably count.

Yagrum is immortal due to Corprus, as is the Nerevarine. The Ash Vampires, and most members of the Sixth House might also be immortal, but that's a bigger question mark. (Worth remembering, the Ash Vampires are neither vampires nor undead, so they do qualify. Their immortality is derived from Corprus mutations as I recall.)

Cadwell may be mortal, but I kinda doubt it.

Laloriaran Dynar is another one. He's kind of a special case, the flashback to Glenumbra Moors that you see is just under 3,000 years before the events of ESO proper.

The Champion of Cyrodiil may have been rendered immortal by the events of Shivering Isles, depending on your perspective. You may also choose to consider them a daedra at that point, and strike them from the options.

The Vestiage is another big question mark, but it's pretty clear they can't be killed through normal means, and even the extraordinary efforts used against them in Bangkorai seem to have been ineffective.

Most vampires would technically fit the bill. I know, you said, ignoring undead, though these guys are a slightly different situation than something like a lich or spirit. The oldest one we've encountered in game would be Lamae. Though I'm a little unclear on exactly how old she is. It's possible, tacking on the extra millennia between ESO and Skyrim could make Serana or Valerica the oldest vampire we've actually interacted with.

Incidentally, depending on how you feel about it, Tiber Septum, and Wulfharth may also fit the bill. You may encounter Talos personally during the main quest of Morrowind (there's a way to miss this encounter, but I don't remember how). Wulfharth is more of a question. There's theories that you're actually playing him in Skryim... so... *shrugs*

starkerealm

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

M'aiq's a weird case. He's kinda like Patches in the Fromsoft games. A gag character, but one that keeps coming back.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

@theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO Ooo, Gelebor's a good one!

starkerealm wrote: »

I know, you said, ignoring undead

I also said 'mortal-by-default' and 'no special powers or effects laid on them' other than being immortal - which discounts vampires, gods and demi-gods as none of those fit those criteria. The idea being to get an idea of how 'common' the condition is.

Dynar counts as far as I can tell though. Hard to say if Divayth pulled a trick like

Dratha

but I agree it's likely he pulled SOME kind of shenanigans to live to be 4,000 years old.

Now I think on it, there was an orc in one quest who was basically immortal.

starkerealm

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

I know, you said, ignoring undead

I also said 'mortal-by-default' and 'no special powers or effects laid on them' other than being immortal - which discounts vampires, gods and demi-gods as none of those fit those criteria. The idea being to get an idea of how 'common' the condition is.

The tricky part is that there are a lot of ways for characters to achieve functional immortality on Tamriel, and a delineation like this makes it a little difficult to know who would or wouldn't fit.

I mean, that definition could absolutely include corprus sufferers, so Yagrum, and the Nerevarine.

Though, the basic implication seems to be that there are ways to indefinitely extend your life through magic. Something we've seen from characters like Mankar Camoran, and multiple members of House Telvanni.

In the grand scheme of things, it's probably safe to say, "not very." The assumption is that people will die of old age, but, with mages, that's never completely certain.

To pull dialog from Oblivion: "The "Commentaries" are contemporary with Tiber Septim, over 400 years ago. So he is unlikely to be still alive, although you never know."

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

Now I think on it, there was an orc in one quest who was basically immortal.

I think the Orc in question was a vampire, but it's been awhile since I ran the quest.

Countcalorie

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO wrote: »

Gelebor? Also maybe Yagrum since he's only still alive due to corprus.

The Drake of Blades and Wilderking/Queen seem to be immortal as well, but probably violate the special powers condition.

starkerealm wrote: »

Divayth Fyr may not technically be immortal, but he's in both ESO and the single player games, so...

Similarly, Neloth is effectively immortal. Though non-canon paths through Morrowind can result in his death (as I recall).

EDIT: There may be other members of House Telvanni that are effectively immortal due to magic, but it's not completely clear.

Credit to Mankar Camoran, who may not actually be immortal, but was around for the entirety of the third era.

Beyond this, the three members of the Tribunal and Dagoth Ur probably count.

Yagrum is immortal due to Corprus, as is the Nerevarine. The Ash Vampires, and most members of the Sixth House might also be immortal, but that's a bigger question mark. (Worth remembering, the Ash Vampires are neither vampires nor undead, so they do qualify. Their immortality is derived from Corprus mutations as I recall.)

Cadwell may be mortal, but I kinda doubt it.

Laloriaran Dynar is another one. He's kind of a special case, the flashback to Glenumbra Moors that you see is just under 3,000 years before the events of ESO proper.

The Champion of Cyrodiil may have been rendered immortal by the events of Shivering Isles, depending on your perspective. You may also choose to consider them a daedra at that point, and strike them from the options.

The Vestiage is another big question mark, but it's pretty clear they can't be killed through normal means, and even the extraordinary efforts used against them in Bangkorai seem to have been ineffective.

Most vampires would technically fit the bill. I know, you said, ignoring undead, though these guys are a slightly different situation than something like a lich or spirit. The oldest one we've encountered in game would be Lamae. Though I'm a little unclear on exactly how old she is. It's possible, tacking on the extra millennia between ESO and Skyrim could make Serana or Valerica the oldest vampire we've actually interacted with.

Incidentally, depending on how you feel about it, Tiber Septum, and Wulfharth may also fit the bill. You may encounter Talos personally during the main quest of Morrowind (there's a way to miss this encounter, but I don't remember how). Wulfharth is more of a question. There's theories that you're actually playing him in Skryim... so... *shrugs*

I think its assumed that the Vestige is a Daedra or Perfect soulshriven vestige.something about being attuned to Nirn instead of the Waters of Oblivion.
arnt all soulshriven a form of daedra?I mean your physical body is gone and your soul is too if your soulshriven.

Countcalorie

starkerealm wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

M'aiq's a weird case. He's kinda like Patches in the Fromsoft games. A gag character, but one that keeps coming back.

Patches in bloodborne was weird.just some spider with a bald guys head.very weird.

Countcalorie

how is Neloth Immortal? he's just old.remember that the elven lifespan is 1-1000 years and it was only two hundred and something years from when the Nevereane meets Neloth to when the Dragonborn meets Neloth.unless I'm wrong and theres a larger year gap between the Nevereane Prophecy and the Oblivion Crisis.but even if thats true Neloth would still be alive and mortal.

Sharee

In Cydoriil? A dime dozen

(sorry couldn't resist )

starkerealm

Countcalorie wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

M'aiq's a weird case. He's kinda like Patches in the Fromsoft games. A gag character, but one that keeps coming back.

Patches in bloodborne was weird.just some spider with a bald guys head.very weird.

Also remember, Patches isn't (originally) a Souls character. His first appearance was in Armored Core, as I recall.

Rahotu

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

who told you that?

starkerealm

Countcalorie wrote: »

arnt all soulshriven a form of daedra?

We honestly don't know, and there's no official statements on the subject. I mean, if you buy Mankar Camoran's comments in Oblivion, then, yeah, sure, along with everyone else on Nirn.

The assumption is that the Soul Shriven are effectively daedric is put to the test in Bankorai, and... apparently not.

"Like a daedra," is a good analogy, but the vestige isn't, actually, one.

starkerealm

Countcalorie wrote: »

how is Neloth Immortal? he's just old.remember that the elven lifespan is 1-1000 years and it was only two hundred and something years from when the Nevereane meets Neloth to when the Dragonborn meets Neloth.unless I'm wrong and theres a larger year gap between the Nevereane Prophecy and the Oblivion Crisis.but even if thats true Neloth would still be alive and mortal.

That's (probably) the statistics for high elves. Dunmer only live for 200-300 years. So, for him to be as spry as he is in Dragonborn, suggests he's been kicking around for a bit longer than he should be.

theroyalestpythonnub18_ESO

In the same vein as the oldest orc how about Nairume?

Elsonso

Rahotu wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

who told you that?

I am pretty sure I heard it from Maiq, but he could have been lying.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

who told you that?

I am pretty sure I heard it from Maiq, but he could have been lying.

"M'aiq's father was Q'iam, from a long line of Q'iams, but he was a known liar."

And, yeah, you're right, it is from M'aiq dialog, where he claims to be part of a long family, using the same name.

MUSTACHMAN654

Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.

starkerealm

MUSTACHMAN654 wrote: »

Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.

Slight spoiler alert from 2003...

Almalexia goes bugnuts, and kills Sotha Sil a few years down the line.

Also makes a credible attempt to wax the real Nerevarine by unleashing Fabricants into Mournhold. Things do not go well from her after that.

It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

starkerealm wrote: »

It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

There was a rumor he got kidnapped by Daedra in Oblivion.

Countcalorie

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

There was a rumor he got kidnapped by Daedra in Oblivion.

I think its implied he either died or became completely powerless(and therefore useless to any daedra aside for punishing him) as baan dar crashed into nirn causing Red Mountain to erupt didn't it?

starkerealm

Countcalorie wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

There was a rumor he got kidnapped by Daedra in Oblivion.

I think its implied he either died or became completely powerless(and therefore useless to any daedra aside for punishing him) as baan dar crashed into nirn causing Red Mountain to erupt didn't it?

Yeah, more or less. In Oblivion it's said that he'd removed himself from public life after the deaths of Almalexia and Sotha Sil. Though that could have meant he was simply dead, and his priesthood was trying to keep it quiet. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Oblivion might have suggested that both Vivec and Almalexia were doing fine but had withdrawn, and we know Almalexia is toast.

When you move into Skyrim, so 200 years later. The assumed outcomes was that he had been put on trial by "the Daedra," but I can't remember what the source for that detail was.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, more or less. In Oblivion it's said that he'd removed himself from public life after the deaths of Almalexia and Sotha Sil. Though that could have meant he was simply dead, and his priesthood was trying to keep it quiet. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Oblivion might have suggested that both Vivec and Almalexia were doing fine but had withdrawn, and we know Almalexia is toast.

Where in Oblivion is this info?

Asardes

I've met a smurf sorc on Vivec once who was only casting hardened ward, harness magicka and healing ward, streaked and jumped on rocks like crazy. Nobody could kill him

starkerealm

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Yeah, more or less. In Oblivion it's said that he'd removed himself from public life after the deaths of Almalexia and Sotha Sil. Though that could have meant he was simply dead, and his priesthood was trying to keep it quiet. EDIT: Actually, come to think of it, Oblivion might have suggested that both Vivec and Almalexia were doing fine but had withdrawn, and we know Almalexia is toast.

Where in Oblivion is this info?

Random background dialog off NPCs. In practice the easiest place to farm this stuff is in the Market District, but anywhere with multiple NPCs who will talk about current events should work. I'm not 100% how Oblivion populates its background chatter.

EDIT: I should add, I think that's the source. It's been a few years, so it could be direct dialog with a dark elf somewhere in the province, and I'm just not remembering it.

Countcalorie

Asardes wrote: »

I've met a smurf sorc on Vivec once who was only casting hardened ward, harness magicka and healing ward, streaked and jumped on rocks like crazy. Nobody could kill him

we've all seen them before just ignore them.thats there major weakness.

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

MUSTACHMAN654 wrote: »

Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.

Slight spoiler alert from 2003...

Almalexia goes bugnuts, and kills Sotha Sil a few years down the line.

Also makes a credible attempt to wax the real Nerevarine by unleashing Fabricants into Mournhold. Things do not go well from her after that.

It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

If the assault on Clockwork City by Clavicus Vile has taught us anything, it is that Baar Dau has no patience for an inattentive Vivec, and would not tolerate even a brief amount of time without him. Baar Dau tells us that Vivec continued to live, with powers waning, for a long time following the Nerevarine and the defeat of Dagoth Ur. Until the time of Vuhon, and the invention of the Ingenium, we can be certain that Vivec is alive.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

MUSTACHMAN654 wrote: »

Well Almalexia Sotha Sil and Vivec are kind of immortal being that they are living gods, though Vivec did almost die by Barbas when he tricked you into using Sunrah to give him his powers back.

Slight spoiler alert from 2003...

Almalexia goes bugnuts, and kills Sotha Sil a few years down the line.

Also makes a credible attempt to wax the real Nerevarine by unleashing Fabricants into Mournhold. Things do not go well from her after that.

It's an open question if the Nerevarine killed Vivec or not. The game lets you choose to do so, but there's no concrete information which way this went in subsequent games.

If the assault on Clockwork City by Clavicus Vile has taught us anything, it is that Baar Dau has no patience for an inattentive Vivec, and would not tolerate even a brief amount of time without him. Baar Dau tells us that Vivec continued to live, with powers waning, for a long time following the Nerevarine and the defeat of Dagoth Ur. Until the time of Vuhon, and the invention of the Ingenium, we can be certain that Vivec is alive.

Yeah, that does seem the most likely outcome. Also running across Neloth on Solstheim kinda suggests that the canon Nerevarine wasn't a relentless psychopath, waxing everyone who they had the option to.

zaria

Rahotu wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

who told you that?

You find an flute somewhere who is labled "To Maiq from his father Maiq"

starkerealm

zaria wrote: »

Rahotu wrote: »

Yakidafi wrote: »

Maiq the liars father was also named Maiq the liar

who told you that?

You find an flute somewhere who is labled "To Maiq from his father Maiq"

One of the justice system treasures?