Sentences that trigger lore nerds

zaria

starkerealm wrote: »

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zaria wrote: »

You could reach max level in both Mages Guild and Telvanni without any problems I remember.

There's a mutually exclusive quest, where you're either sent in to clear out the Telvanni, or wipe out the Mages Guild members assaulting the place. Completing it for one group means you've wiped out the NPC you need to report to for the other quest. There may be a way to glitch around this, but it's not intended.

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zaria wrote: »

I sleepwalked to an solution to the Thief guild and fighter guild conflict multiple times without knowing it was an issue.

There's an exploit to how you can handle code book. You need to handle the Thieves Guild and Fighters Guild quests in just the right order, and in exactly the right way, or this one goes nuclear. Ironically, this happens way before the obviously blocked path that pops up later on.

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zaria wrote: »

Solution was simply not to do quests who would generate an conflict, do other quests instead. An quest is not an direct order you would get court-martial for not doing right away.

Ultimately, with Morrowind, you did need to clear most of the quests. There are some exceptions, like the final four Fighters Guild quests that actually had alternate versions you could pick up from a different quest giver.

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zaria wrote: »

Unlike Skyrim and Oblivion you did not have to do all the minor quests to reach max level, you did minor quests to get reputation, you got some major quests too who you had to do.

This is missing something critically important. Factions had related adjustment modifiers in Morrowind. So, if you were a member of the Mages Guild, members of House Telvanni would have a lower disposition. This meant you'd actually need to clear more quests, and you couldn't avoid some of those trip ups.

Amusingly, the Telvanni held the Mages Guild in exactly as low esteem as the Sixth House.

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zaria wrote: »

ESO TG and DB work much the same way but with random quests as minor.

Morag Tong would be hard to do without making many faction angry as you would kill lots of people in other factions.

Morag Tong was pretty easy, if you were good at stealth. You'd only get expelled if the murder was witnessed.

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zaria wrote: »

starkerealm wrote: »

Countcalorie wrote: »

Danikat wrote: »

Referring to the TES series as "the Skyrim games".

"So how do you make your character dragonborn"
"You can't"
"But you can become dragonborn in all the other Skyrim games so why not this one?"

my first game was oblivion and holy *** you could become a lot of different things.the gray fox,the listener,a champion of cyridol(still no clue how to spell it lol),a vampire,an arena grand champion,archmage of the mages guild,fighters guildmaster,a vampire hunter,the divine crusader and a member of the blades.oh and its implied that you turn into a daedric prince eventually too.so theres that.

Fun trivia: Oblivion is the one single player game where you can be absolutely positive the player character isn't dragonborn.

To be fair, the protagonists of the other games almost certainly aren't (with a major asterisk on Morrowind), but still.

Ironically, what I miss about Morrowind was you couldn't do everything. Various guilds you'd join would get crosswise of each other. Not all of them. You could run up through the Morag Tong without any major issues. But if you wanted to be fighter's guild and thieves guild, or Mages Guild and Telvanni, you were going to have a bad time.

You could reach max level in both Mages Guild and Telvanni without any problems I remember.
I sleepwalked to an solution to the Thief guild and fighter guild conflict multiple times without knowing it was an issue.
Solution was simply not to do quests who would generate an conflict, do other quests instead.
An quest is not an direct order you would get court-martial for not doing right away.
Unlike Skyrim and Oblivion you did not have to do all the minor quests to reach max level, you did minor quests to get reputation, you got some major quests too who you had to do.

ESO TG and DB work much the same way but with random quests as minor.

Morag Tong would be hard to do without making many faction angry as you would kill lots of people in other factions.

I went back and checked. I remember there being a non-optional quest on both sides for Mages and Telvanni that would have you wipe out a group of the other. I can't find it right now, but I do remember encountering it, and not being able to skirt around it and advance.

There's also another factor I'd forgotten. Back in TES3 there were factional tensions. If you ranked up in one faction it would improve your disposition with other members of your faction, while reducing your disposition in others. Mages/Telvanni had one of the most severe penalties (Mages tie with Sixth House for the Telvanni's opinion modifiers.) Or, to put this in perspective, if you asked a member of House Telvanni, "which is worse? Imperial Cult, which opposes your culture or Sixth House?" It's a no brainer, Sixth House is worse, but if you ask them, "which is worse, Mages Guild or Sixth House?" They'll need to get back to you on that one.

I think this also affected reputation for those factions directly. Meaning, it might be possible to advance through the Mages Guild and Telvanni through very careful management, but you would need to do way more of the quests than you usually would. As I recall, this creates a situation where you cannot advance both guilds past that quest.

Incidentally, this isn't an issue with Fighters Guild/Thieves Guild. That simply requires that you have completed the quests in a very precise order, and have a Speech heavy build. If you did the TG stuff first, it wouldn't be at all surprising that you could get through that mess, because you'd have a better idea what's going on when you get their in the FG questline. But, botch up that sequence at all, and it can go pearshaped fast. Also, not remembering to ignore your orders and check in with a certain NPC at regular intervals will also screw up the FG questline. It makes sense, it's logical, it's honestly really cool, and one of the things I remember very clearly, but it's very easy to screw up, and botch. I love it.

In fact, in spite of knowing both paths, I think the only FG playthrough I've taken to completion on Morrowind was a Tong ending.

On the other hand, I never had any problems with a Morag Tong character. And I've done several Tong playthroughs. The hard part there is simply that you really do need to be stealthy to make it work. If you're not publicly outed for your killings, you rank up in the guild faster, and you don't take the huge disposition hits a less subtle assassin suffers.

No, once you get the code book quests, you stop doing Balmora FG quests you do the other FG hubs.
At some point you get the four other endings and I always kill the Balmora FG boss.
I did this on all my Morrowind characters I finished the main quest on, no exploits or weird stuff, just playing normally.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:The_Code_Book
I know I never completed this, I just used the other questgivers, yes it was a bit surprisingly how many later quests she had.
It don't look like Fighter and Thief guild had reputation effect on each other, Interesting thief guild has an -1 against tribunal temple, Reodoran and Hlaalu,

----
I also know I took all my high level characters Arch-Mage mage and I became Telvanni Archmagister many times.
http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:House_Telvanni#House_Telvanni_Quests
This list the Telvanni quest, one conflict with mage guild but this is diplomatic.

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Mages_Guild#Mages_Guild_Quests
One mage guild quest http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Morrowind:Kill_the_Telvanni_Councilors is optional.

Again an quest in log is not an direct order, its an job offer.

zaria

Enodoc wrote: »

Hey I've got one:

"Dragon break", when it's use to explain every little inconsistency even when there are more interesting rationalisations available.

This dragon breaks was introduced because the dev painted themselves into an corner with the Daggerfall ending.
Nobody cares how warlords who held the imperial city for some weeks, yes its lots of records and they all conflict
The thing remember was how Molag Bal.was stopped.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

Enodoc wrote: »

"Dragon break", when it's use to explain every little inconsistency even when there are more interesting rationalisations available.

Second this! It's like irradiating your house when a can of bug spray would've done the trick. Or worse; using a Dargonbreak to explain away something that wasn't an inconsistency in the first place.

starkerealm

zaria wrote: »

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Enodoc wrote: »

Hey I've got one:

"Dragon break", when it's use to explain every little inconsistency even when there are more interesting rationalisations available.

This dragon breaks was introduced because the dev painted themselves into an corner with the Daggerfall ending.
Nobody cares how warlords who held the imperial city for some weeks, yes its lots of records and they all conflict
The thing remember was how Molag Bal.was stopped.

It's more that Kirkbride has some really weird inclinations as a writer. There were three writers involved with Morrowind. Two of them were directly responsible for the tone of the setting as a whole: Michael Kirkbride and Ken Rolston.

Kirkbride leaned heavily towards the bizarre and abstract. So, a lot of the philosophy and downright incomprehensible stuff is his. This includes the Dragon Break as a concept. He's also the author of The 36 Lessons, and a lot of the more bizarre lore material in general.

The second major influence was Rolston. He had a hard rule that everything needed to be a metaphor, everything needed to be grounded somehow. It's how we ended up with The Empire as pseudo Romans (among other things).

When you Kirkbride and Rolston next to each other, you've got writers going in almost exactly the opposite directions, from a setting philosophy standpoint, and the result is the often neurotic tone of TES3.

If you want to get a slightly better grasp of what I'm talking about, take a look at the Douglas Goodall interview on UESP.

newtinmpls

Regarding the use of "mana"

Jitterbug wrote: »

I'm not sure when it popped up as a measurement of magical energy, though.

D&D maybe?[/quote]

Nope. I played it since the blue box; not a DnD or AD&D term.

newtinmpls

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Except that the argument was "Kirkbride wasn't working for Beth anymore, therefore it's not canon". That argument is invalid.

sorry if I'm mis-attributing this quote, the nest of who said what got a little insane.

My understanding is that we are talking about ES lore from ES games. That would include Arena, Daggerfall ... .blah blah blah.

Kirkbride is not an ES game, therefore whatever is "in" him, is not lore. Might be interesting, but, not lore.

I hear reasonable arguments back and forth as to would ESO be considered lore. Myself, considering what weird Hash they have made of their "use" of "lore", I take all of ESO with a large grain of salt, topped with a side of dragonbreak, and don't really take any of the ESO-specific lore all that seriously.

altemriel

aliyavana wrote: »

"Can we please choose our own racials?"

The dominion is evil due to the actions of the thalmor in the 4th era

nope

starkerealm

newtinmpls wrote: »

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anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Except that the argument was "Kirkbride wasn't working for Beth anymore, therefore it's not canon". That argument is invalid.

sorry if I'm mis-attributing this quote, the nest of who said what got a little insane.

My understanding is that we are talking about ES lore from ES games. That would include Arena, Daggerfall ... .blah blah blah.

Kirkbride is not an ES game, therefore whatever is "in" him, is not lore. Might be interesting, but, not lore.

I hear reasonable arguments back and forth as to would ESO be considered lore. Myself, considering what weird Hash they have made of their "use" of "lore", I take all of ESO with a large grain of salt, topped with a side of dragonbreak, and don't really take any of the ESO-specific lore all that seriously.

On point, a quote from Douglas Goodall, in regard to his work for, and after he left, Bethesda, on the lore:

I don't have any say anymore about whether it is official lore. I probably didn't leave extensive enough notes for them to make it official...

I figured that, regardless of whether the 36 Sermons were true or not (something that was not decided at Bethesda when I worked there), the author (whether it was really Vivec or not) would have competition. An opposing faction. An alternate take.

Note that Sermon Zero isn't actually present in Morrowind, as far as I remember. Books that are actually published in one of the Elder Scrolls games have precedence over ramblings on the forums.

Hint: The best place to hide something is in plain sight. I believe this hint also applies to the other Sermons.

Emphasis added.

Lord_Etrigan

Zandadunoz the Reborn

It looks like a dragon, breath fire like a dragon so it must be a dragon?

No its is not!

notimetocare

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

Zandadunoz the Reborn

It looks like a dragon, breath fire like a dragon so it must be a dragon?

No its is not!

Technically it is, Titans are daedric creations made from dragons

Defilted

Mana was referenced in a few video games but the one place you hear is contently is "Magic the Gathering".

Shardan4968

starkerealm wrote: »

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JarlUlfric wrote: »

"Pelinal Whitestrake is a Cyborg from the 9th Era to save Tamriel."

Who kills people with his laser beam chest.

I mean, it's one of the more hilarious details from Kirkbride, and I love it. But, man is some of his stuff bonkers.

Can some lorebeard explain it to me? I heard from other forum that Pelinal was a cyborg, but I don't remember this from Oblivion. Maybe I didn't understand Songs of Pelinal or I don't remember, but is it canon or just another Kirkbride's fanfiction like C0DA?

starkerealm

Shardan4968 wrote: »

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starkerealm wrote: »

JarlUlfric wrote: »

"Pelinal Whitestrake is a Cyborg from the 9th Era to save Tamriel."

Who kills people with his laser beam chest.

I mean, it's one of the more hilarious details from Kirkbride, and I love it. But, man is some of his stuff bonkers.

Can some lorebeard explain it to me? I heard from other forum that Pelinal was a cyborg, but I don't remember this from Oblivion. Maybe I didn't understand Songs of Pelinal or I don't remember, but is it canon or just another Kirkbride's fanfiction like C0DA?

It's Kirkbride fanfiction. I think it might actually be from C0DA, but I can't be bothered to go double check at the moment.

In theory, it's supported by the Song of Pelinal. If you approach it from the position of Pelinal being a time traveler, the song does make more sense. But, there's no explicit support, and it's easy to write off the song's content.

waitwhat

Castle Alessia pronounced as "Alissa" or "Aleesa".
Aldmeri pronounced as "Aldemeri".
Hircine pronounced as "Hierkeen".

BONUS: Argonian pronounced as "lizard".

WhiteCoatSyndrome

waitwhat wrote: »

Castle Alessia pronounced as "Alissa" or "Aleesa".
Aldmeri pronounced as "Aldemeri".
Hircine pronounced as "Hierkeen".

BONUS: Argonian pronounced as "lizard".

If we're going with mispronunciations, back in beta when the text-to-voice voices tried to pronounce 'Khajiit' as 'Kuh-jyt'.

And Loremaster Schick himself mispronouncing Tsaesci* is something of a personal pet peeve:

Grommok's Journal

He told me it was Akaveery or something like that and made by the Snake People or the Sayessie or whatever. Syndelius says Sayessie starts with a T just now when he saw me writing this, but that doesn't make any sense. T-s-a-e-s-c-i.

*Yes the language can shift between the Second and Third Eras. Not the point.

Shardan4968 wrote: »

Can some lorebeard explain it to me? I heard from other forum that Pelinal was a cyborg, but I don't remember this from Oblivion. Maybe I didn't understand Songs of Pelinal or I don't remember, but is it canon or just another Kirkbride's fanfiction like C0DA?

@Shardan4968 From this line here:

he was Pelinal the Whitestrake because of his left hand, made of a killing light

And here:

[whose] facets could [un-sector and form] into a man whose every angle could cut her jailers and a name: PELIN-EL [which is] "The Star-Made Knight" [and he] was arrayed in armor [from the future time]

And this one:

Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon

starkerealm

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

@Shardan4968 From this line here:

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he was Pelinal the Whitestrake because of his left hand, made of a killing light

And here:

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[whose] facets could [un-sector and form] into a man whose every angle could cut her jailers and a name: PELIN-EL [which is] "The Star-Made Knight" [and he] was arrayed in armor [from the future time]

Which is kinda amusing, because there's also this line in Vol 1:

Perhaps his enemies named Pelinal of their own in their tongue, but that is doubtful, for it means "glorious knight", and he was neither to them.

And, then from Vol 3:

Pelinal called out Haromir of Copper and Tea into a duel at the Tor, and ate his neck-veins while screaming praise to Reman, a name that no one knew yet.

I'll come back to this in a second.

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

And this one:

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Still others, like Fifd of New Teed, say that beneath the Pelinal's star-armor was a chest that gaped open to show no heart, only a red rage shaped diamond-fashion, singing like a mindless dragon

It's probably worth noting, when you're transcribing something, sticking a word or phrase in brackets indicates that you've altered in some way for coherency, or to fit the flow of the surrounding text. So, things like, [which is] or [and he] would be fairly common ways to indicate that the original text had some minor grammatical error that was corrected. Having the entire phrase, [from the future time] marked this way is weird. Just, straight up, this is strange, and I've never had an explanation, unless those editing marks are supposed to indicate something different. Given the editors note in Vol 1, my suspicion is that those are, "best guesses," from the surviving fragments. Where the original text is too badly corroded to be clearly read. This also occurs in Volume 10, where editorial annotations are in parenthesis, and at least once is marked with a ?, indicating that the transcriber isn't even sure what they're converting over.

The reason I said it's easy to dismiss the song is because the actual origin is, deliberately, unclear. Vol 1-6 are based on fragments from the early second era. Seven, Eight, and Ten all have different origins. (According to vol 10, it's part of a four volume collection (9-12), but the other 3 are unavailable in game.)

It's also worth looking at the editors notes on the oldest fragments (7 and 8). Vol 7 was written over 2k years after the events its describing. While Vol 8 may be older, and the editor suspects it's close to the original text, but outright contradicts the previous volumes.

What we're left with is dubious. It's a little like looking at actual religious texts and looking for fantastical elements, then reading the intention into them. It's entirely possible that Pelinal was a time-traveling cyborg supersoldier from the 9th Era. But, at the same time, the evidence for that is removed from the actual events by over 2k years of mythology.

That's a lot of time for bards to modify and embellish the story. Even if it was written down and remembered before the "modern," versions were recorded. I made a note of the Reman thing because this is exactly the kind of embellishment that is extremely likely to occur. What better way to legitimize an Emperor than saying that a great folk hero called out his name millennia ago?

At the same time, I'm always reminded of The Rotwood Enigma. And, how the whole, time traveling cyborgs thing kinda fits with what's seen there too.

But, everything is vague enough to say, "yeah, we don't know for a fact that Pelinal was a cyborg, or even a time traveler."

EDIT: UESP has a combined version of The Song with the text from all nine volumes in one place. It's slightly more convenient than paging through the books one at a time.

WhiteCoatSyndrome

...I made another thread rather than derail this one again.

starkerealm

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

...I made another thread rather than derail this one again.

I already said my bit here. I'm done.

Elsonso

starkerealm wrote: »

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WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

...I made another thread rather than derail this one again.

I already said my bit here. I'm done.

Uh huh. Sure.

starkerealm

lordrichter wrote: »

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starkerealm wrote: »

WhiteCoatSyndrome wrote: »

...I made another thread rather than derail this one again.

I already said my bit here. I'm done.

Uh huh. Sure.

About Pelinal? Yeah.

LoreScholar

Any character with "Septim" as their last name.

Referring to the Aldmeri Dominion as "The Thalmor"

"Orsium"

"The Nine Divines"

"Talos"

"Queen Airen"

"Why isn't Ulfric the Jarl of Windhelm?"

and most importantly: "The game is set after the events of Skyrim."

notimetocare

LoreScholar wrote: »

Referring to the Aldmeri Dominion as "The Thalmor"

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thalmor

"With the ascension of Ayrenn to the Altmeri throne and the establishment of the first Aldmeri Dominion in 2E 580, the Thalmor's role was expanded to become the executive arm of the alliance, a bureaucracy that managed the Dominion's day-to-day affairs and liaised between its various local leaders and factions."

LoreScholar

notimetocare wrote: »

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LoreScholar wrote: »

Referring to the Aldmeri Dominion as "The Thalmor"

http://en.uesp.net/wiki/Lore:Thalmor

"With the ascension of Ayrenn to the Altmeri throne and the establishment of the first Aldmeri Dominion in 2E 580, the Thalmor's role was expanded to become the executive arm of the alliance, a bureaucracy that managed the Dominion's day-to-day affairs and liaised between its various local leaders and factions."

What I meant to say was that some ash-sucking fetchers refer to the faction simply as "The Thalmor". Yes, some of the organization's members may hold important roles in it's political background but that doesn't mean they rule above Queen Ayrenn. Also, fools are those who think that the Second Era Thalmor are evil like their counterparts from the Fourth Era, which brings us to another triggering quote that has relation to this: "But what about the College of Aldmeri Propriety?"

It is the Aldmeri Dominion, the Ebonheart Pact and the Daggerfall Covenant... not the "Thalmor Dominion".

MythicEmperor

WuffyCerulei wrote: »

"Where are the dragons?" or for me, "Altmer and Dunmer are so amazing!"
Boi, if you knew what both did to khajiit and what Dunmer did to Argonians, you wouldn't like em so much. Not to mention the Dominion Altmer who used an ancient relic to practically massacre almost an entire generation of unborn Argonians. He killed babies.

What they did to the inferior races is the exact reason I like them?

Ir0nB34r

This is a hilarious thread!

Berret

"This setting is just like Game of Thrones!"

As a Lore nerd that sentence makes me...

MythicEmperor

Stone foundations are perfect for mushroom towers!

Bobby_V_Rockit

RP'ers creep me out

starkerealm

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

RP'ers creep me out

Depends on the RPers. Some are decent folk. A little weird but decent enough. And some of them just want to **** cats.

Bobby_V_Rockit

starkerealm wrote: »

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Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

RP'ers creep me out

Depends on the RPers. Some are decent folk. A little weird but decent enough. And some of them just want to **** cats.

Nope, they. creep. me. out. Not as much as Cosplayers (which is adult speak for "playing dressup"), but they're in the same bucket.