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Slimecraw - having trouble understanding parse results
dpencil1
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So Slimecraw grants permanant Minor Berserk, which makes you do 8% more damage. I never tried the set before, but wanted to check it out on the PTS after the 1 piece bonus got changed to crit.
On my mSorc, I usually run Grothdarr or Ilambris, both of which got nerfed by 10%. That combined with other changes to traits and mundus led me to see a pretty significant drop in dps. I've been trying out different combinations of gear, traits, mundus, and cp, and so thought that, from a soloing perspective, Slimecraw might be a better choice.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I normally get 35k dps with a pet sorc build and that Grothdarr contributes 1400 dps to the parse (4% of my total damage).
Now let's say I switch to Slimecraw. I'm losing the 1400 dps from Grothdarr (assuming the different 1 piece bonuses will not majorly skew our results). I should expect to get an extra 8% added on to the 33600 dps I'd get without Grothdarr. This should get me to 36288 dps (1288 dps better than Grothdarr).
However, in my parse testing, my results using Slimecraw have usually been worse than Grothdarr, at best basically equivalent. I know there are other RNG factors at work that might get evened out if I did a Centurion parse, which I haven't tried yet.
I'm just asking, am I missing anything here? Should I expect Slimecraw to outperform Grothdarr and Ilambris or are there reasons I'm not seeing that would cause it to be weaker than it appears to me on paper?
@Gilliamtherogue Maybe this is something you could look at?
On my mSorc, I usually run Grothdarr or Ilambris, both of which got nerfed by 10%. That combined with other changes to traits and mundus led me to see a pretty significant drop in dps. I've been trying out different combinations of gear, traits, mundus, and cp, and so thought that, from a soloing perspective, Slimecraw might be a better choice.
Let's say, for the sake of argument, that I normally get 35k dps with a pet sorc build and that Grothdarr contributes 1400 dps to the parse (4% of my total damage).
Now let's say I switch to Slimecraw. I'm losing the 1400 dps from Grothdarr (assuming the different 1 piece bonuses will not majorly skew our results). I should expect to get an extra 8% added on to the 33600 dps I'd get without Grothdarr. This should get me to 36288 dps (1288 dps better than Grothdarr).
However, in my parse testing, my results using Slimecraw have usually been worse than Grothdarr, at best basically equivalent. I know there are other RNG factors at work that might get evened out if I did a Centurion parse, which I haven't tried yet.
I'm just asking, am I missing anything here? Should I expect Slimecraw to outperform Grothdarr and Ilambris or are there reasons I'm not seeing that would cause it to be weaker than it appears to me on paper?
@Gilliamtherogue Maybe this is something you could look at?
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laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭did you do the test selfbuffed or with healer support and combat prayer (which is the same buff as slimeclaw)?
my second thought is: does minor berserk actually work on pets, if its only cast on the sorc?Edited by laksikus on 12 July 2017 22:420 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Like, I get this set is not BiS for Trials where healers are keeping combat prayer up. I'm just thinking of solo, PvP, or pug applications where you don't have combat prayer readily available.Edited by dpencil1 on 12 July 2017 22:440 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭did you do those 35k on pts too?or on live?
did you cnsider the nerfs to sharpened and thief?
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dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes I am only talking about PTS parses. Exact same rotation, several times with each setup.Edited by dpencil1 on 12 July 2017 22:500 -
DDuke✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭Hmm... can you test an individual skill and see how much damage it does first without Slimecraw and then how much with it?
It's always worth considering the set might be bugged after a patch & not applying the Minor Berserk (or the 1-piece crit bonus) properly.0 -
laksikus✭✭✭✭✭
✭And test sorc pet damage too. That would be my biggest guess that it doesnt get applied to it.0 -
GilGalad✭✭✭✭✭Not really surprising results. The 8% from minor Berserk are additive with all other dmg increase buffs. With CP and racial passives, staff passives, etc. you already have a dmg bonus of around 50% so the increase by minor Berserk is around 1.58/1.50-1 = 5.3%, maybe even less.
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dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Yes, the set bonuses do seem to be working.
Here are my stats for a normal light attack:
Grothdarr...
Mag: 49306. SD: 2165. Crit: 54.7. Elfborn: 19%
Regular LA: 2379 Crit LA: 3997
Slimecraw...
Mag: 47754. SD: 2165. Crit: 59.5. Elfborn: 19%
Regular LA: 2488 Crit LA: 41810 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Not really surprising results. The 8% from minor Berserk are additive with all other dmg increase buffs. With CP and racial passives, staff passives, etc. you already have a dmg bonus of around 50% so the increase by minor Berserk is around 1.58/1.50-1 = 5.3%, maybe even less.
Ok! Now that's what I was trying to understand. If the other amps make this drop in power pretty significantly, that would explain it not performing better than Grothdarr, etc.
Thanks @GilGalad0 -
Maryal✭✭✭✭✭
✭I love Slimecraw, and it was my fav 'go to' monster set even before this PTS ... but, out of curiosity, I did a DPS test first day of beta (target dummy) and my DPS went up 4K (to my pleasant surprise). The only thing I did different from Live was to equip 1 sharp dagger and 1 precise ax (as opposed to 2 sharp daggers on Live). BTW, I am a stam NB.
Oh, and my Slimecraw parse on PTS also faired better than my parses did on Live using Grothdar, Velidrith, Krag (again, on live using 2 sharp daggers and on PTS using 1 sharp dagger and 1 precise ax). While I don't want to give away my build because it is rather unique and I prefer to keep it that way, I did use the same build for both PTS and live ... and I didn't change any champ points, food was the same as well as the potion used.
Hmmm .... it just occurred to me that I probably should do all the parse tests on PTS due to the change in mundus stones, weapon traits and gear traits.0 -
GilGalad✭✭✭✭✭I love Slimecraw, and it was my fav 'go to' monster set even before this PTS ... but, out of curiosity, I did a DPS test first day of beta (target dummy) and my DPS went up 4K (to my pleasant surprise). The only thing I did different from Live was to equip 1 sharp dagger and 1 precise ax (as opposed to 2 sharp daggers on Live). BTW, I am a stam NB.
Oh, and my Slimecraw parse on PTS also faired better than my parses did on Live using Grothdar, Velidrith, Krag (again, on live using 2 sharp daggers and on PTS using 1 sharp dagger and 1 precise ax). While I don't want to give away my build because it is rather unique and I prefer to keep it that way, I did use the same build for both PTS and live ... and I didn't change any champ points, food was the same as well as the potion used.
Hmmm .... it just occurred to me that I probably should do all the parse tests on PTS due to the change in mundus stones, weapon traits and gear traits.
Why would you use it on a NB?
It's the same buff as grim focus.
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dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭So @GilGalad this is the same issue that faces Minor and Major Slayer being less potent than they are at face value as well. The % amp is applying to the damage you would be doing if you had no amps at all. It's also a problem with Ancient's Grace buffing your base max magicka and not your total max magicka minus Ancient's Grace. Ha, I feel a little foolish now for not thinking about this before.
So if the amps were multiplicative, would that mean they would act the way I was hoping Slimecraw would?0 -
GilGalad✭✭✭✭✭So @GilGalad this is the same issue that faces Minor and Major Slayer being less potent than they are at face value as well. The % amp is applying to the damage you would be doing if you had no amps at all. It's also a problem with Ancient's Grace buffing your base max magicka and not your total max magicka minus Ancient's Grace. Ha, I feel a little foolish now for not thinking about this before.
So if the amps were multiplicative, would that mean they would act the way I was hoping Slimecraw would?
Yes if they were multiplicative you would get the exact dmg increase. When ZOS changed the CP boni to be additive with the morrowind update, a lot of buffs lost potency and suffer the same diminishing returns as stat buffs for example.0 -
dpencil1✭✭✭✭✭
✭Ok, that happened with Morrowind. I was wondering why when I finally got my first Trials 3-piece with Master Architect it wasn't a noticable buff over Willpower.Edited by dpencil1 on 13 July 2017 01:000 -
Tannus15✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭I love Slimecraw, and it was my fav 'go to' monster set even before this PTS ... but, out of curiosity, I did a DPS test first day of beta (target dummy) and my DPS went up 4K (to my pleasant surprise). The only thing I did different from Live was to equip 1 sharp dagger and 1 precise ax (as opposed to 2 sharp daggers on Live). BTW, I am a stam NB.
Oh, and my Slimecraw parse on PTS also faired better than my parses did on Live using Grothdar, Velidrith, Krag (again, on live using 2 sharp daggers and on PTS using 1 sharp dagger and 1 precise ax). While I don't want to give away my build because it is rather unique and I prefer to keep it that way, I did use the same build for both PTS and live ... and I didn't change any champ points, food was the same as well as the potion used.
Hmmm .... it just occurred to me that I probably should do all the parse tests on PTS due to the change in mundus stones, weapon traits and gear traits.
Depending on your sets you'll get a large stamina boost which will improve your damage.0