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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
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• ESO Store and Account System for maintenance – November 19, 9:00AM EST (14:00 UTC) - 6:00PM EST (23:00 UTC)
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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
[NEW] (Videos) Dracarys - Where the Flames Converge - Waking Flame Patch
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Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭pauld1_ESO wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »We decided to hold Faregyl to distract AD, it worked a little too well and the faction ended up there, a very fun fight ensued
Sorry for the PTSD AD ♥
https://youtu.be/VSitVXhBGU4
SreenshotIzanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »pauld1_ESO wrote: »THe most satisfying thing in Ravenwatch is running down and destroying a fleeing Drac member as they run away helplessly without their ball group cheese.
I'm sorry that you're not satisfied very often
You could pretend that all the people you are Xv1ing down are Drac members without their tabard on if you want
Often enough. But yea, this little ego trip is exactly why I enjoy it. You're near invincible due to screwed up mechanics that you take advantage of, you are organized and disciplined which I commend....and I think you know how annoying your group can be to us. So yea....excuse me if I take pleasure in killing Drac tabard wearers when they are separated from your ball group.
I'm sure you can understand.
I know how annoying we can be yeh. It's why we dropped our standard group size since the Elsweyr patch down to 12.
Just having fun though no ego. We enjoy fighting the guilds on NoCP when we go there. @Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
HanStolo✭✭✭BoreBall groups make videos of their boring game play as if they aren't boring enough in game. #yawn2 -
Ahtu✭✭✭✭Dracarys is the single strongest fighting force I've ever fought in Cyrodiil. What they can do is amazing for such a small group. If you think their videos are boring, then maybe you don't understand what you're watching.
Also, if you look closely, that's an organized guild called Ayrenn's Army they are fighting not just PUGs.4 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Dracarys is the single strongest fighting force I've ever fought in Cyrodiil. What they can do is amazing for such a small group. If you think their videos are boring, then maybe you don't understand what you're watching.
Also, if you look closely, that's an organized guild called Ayrenn's Army they are fighting not just PUGs.
Love you too Ahtu thanks for kind words.
Also more on the point that a group of 12 still has an advantage against ungroupped players - for sure we do. But the point should be for players to look at a small group and see what it can do an try to elevate their own gameplay. Make or join a smaller group too (obviously I know that 12 isn't particularly small but it's a good size to balance performance still being able to accomplish any objective and not large enough where you are simply zerging your enemies with little skill needed). You actually have to work for the objective.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on 31 August 2020 12:57@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
MipMip✭✭✭✭If you think their videos are boring, then maybe you don't understand what you're watching.
Very true. I feel that people who watch such videos and say things like 'how boring' or 'no skill, just press two buttons' indeed don't seem to understand what they are seeing. They seem like people watching a classical ballet group performance and saying 'boring, easy, all they do is stand on the tip of their toes' PC EU ∙ PC NA
'My only complaint about ball groups is that there aren't enough of them. Moar Balls.'
- Vilestride5 -
ShadowProc✭✭✭✭✭If you think their videos are boring, then maybe you don't understand what you're watching.
Very true. I feel that people who watch such videos and say things like 'how boring' or 'no skill, just press two buttons' indeed don't seem to understand what they are seeing. They seem like people watching a classical ballet group performance and saying 'boring, easy, all they do is stand on the tip of their toes'
No. It’s just some have moved on from that style and play small scale and realized it is WAY more challenging the fewer there is. And more rewarding.0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭ZoS: We dont know why the server lags
This isn't affected by the current tests they are running.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
HanStolo✭✭✭Dracarys is the single strongest fighting force I've ever fought in Cyrodiil. What they can do is amazing for such a small group. If you think their videos are boring, then maybe you don't understand what you're watching.
Also, if you look closely, that's an organized guild called Ayrenn's Army they are fighting not just PUGs.
I guess if you admire levels of boredom.Edited by HanStolo on 10 September 2020 18:430 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
yeah, that was the point of my comment...
So it obviously isn't an issue. Which was my point.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
Recremen✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
It's a spammable AoE ability, if it isn't being affected by the AoE cooldown then that's a bug and should be reported as such. There's no way you aren't aware that it should be affected by the test. In point of fact even a casual examination should reveal that this should be the worse morph as far as performance goes since it hits three targets.Men'Do PC NA AD Khajiit
Grand High Illustrious Mid-Tier PvP/PvE Bussmunster1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
It's a spammable AoE ability, if it isn't being affected by the AoE cooldown then that's a bug and should be reported as such. There's no way you aren't aware that it should be affected by the test. In point of fact even a casual examination should reveal that this should be the worse morph as far as performance goes since it hits three targets.
The point was regarding stackability of heals. Highlighted by the screenshot. There is a cooldown on RR if it hits different targets and after initial cast.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Anyone who has ever taken a computer science class can probably understand that is very likely one of the issues that produces the server lag. If you have a 24man group, each one with 5-6 rapid regens, you are adding 120 calculations per second, per group, just with HoTs ticking, and the battle havent even started. And i'm not counting the calculation to determine which players get the rapid regen in each case (iterate the full list of player in range, perform checks in each one of them, etc, etc), the so called "smart healing" which is a terrible idea in the first place.
Even withouth having the code of the server, is quite easy to assume that the execution time of these algoritms will be extremely bad on the server.
Edited by ManDraKE on 10 September 2020 19:350 -
Crash427✭✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Anyone who has ever taken a computer science class can probably understand that is very likely one of the issues that produces the server lag. If you have a 24man group, each one with 5-6 rapid regens, you are adding 120 calculations per second, per group, just with HoTs ticking, and the battle havent even started. And i'm not counting the calculation to determine which players get the rapid regen in each case (iterate the full list of player in range, perform checks in each one of them, etc, etc), the so called "smart healing" which is a terrible idea in the first place.
Even withouth having the code of the server, is quite easy to assume that the execution time of these algoritms will be extremely bad on the server.
Ah, of course. Its the 10 person Drac raid lagging the server, not the 80 people crammed into Sej.3 -
Satiar✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Anyone who has ever taken a computer science class can probably understand that is very likely one of the issues that produces the server lag. If you have a 24man group, each one with 5-6 rapid regens, you are adding 120 calculations per second, per group, just with HoTs ticking, and the battle havent even started. And i'm not counting the calculation to determine which players get the rapid regen in each case (iterate the full list of player in range, perform checks in each one of them, etc, etc), the so called "smart healing" which is a terrible idea in the first place.
Even withouth having the code of the server, is quite easy to assume that the execution time of these algoritms will be extremely bad on the server.
Ah, of course. Its the 10 person Drac raid lagging the server, not the 80 people crammed into Sej.
We've had some large fights in IC this past week, some with upwards of 3 organized guilds + a large number of followers and it has been the most clean, lag free pvp experience I've had in years.
This tells me it's less about the groups themselves and what they're doing, and more with something to do with Cyro itself, its servers its size, SOMETHING.Vehemence -- Commander and Raid Lead -- Tri-faction PvP
Knights Paravant -- Co-GM and Raid Lead -- AD Greyhost3 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Anyone who has ever taken a computer science class can probably understand that is very likely one of the issues that produces the server lag. If you have a 24man group, each one with 5-6 rapid regens, you are adding 120 calculations per second, per group, just with HoTs ticking, and the battle havent even started. And i'm not counting the calculation to determine which players get the rapid regen in each case (iterate the full list of player in range, perform checks in each one of them, etc, etc), the so called "smart healing" which is a terrible idea in the first place.
Even withouth having the code of the server, is quite easy to assume that the execution time of these algoritms will be extremely bad on the server.
Ah, of course. Its the 10 person Drac raid lagging the server, not the 80 people crammed into Sej.
Game mechanics like this one are responsible for the server lag, this is not just the 10 people in Dracarys doing it, every single organized group in Cyrodrill is doing it, because that is how the game is designed to work, sadly.
I wasnt blaming anyone in particular. I was just watching one of the videos, saw that, and took and screen. That's it. I'm not attacking nor defending dracarys or any other pvp group.2 -
IAmIcehouse✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Anyone who has ever taken a computer science class can probably understand that is very likely one of the issues that produces the server lag. If you have a 24man group, each one with 5-6 rapid regens, you are adding 120 calculations per second, per group, just with HoTs ticking, and the battle havent even started. And i'm not counting the calculation to determine which players get the rapid regen in each case (iterate the full list of player in range, perform checks in each one of them, etc, etc), the so called "smart healing" which is a terrible idea in the first place.
Even withouth having the code of the server, is quite easy to assume that the execution time of these algoritms will be extremely bad on the server.
Ah, of course. Its the 10 person Drac raid lagging the server, not the 80 people crammed into Sej.
Game mechanics like this one are responsible for the server lag, this is not just the 10 people in Dracarys doing it, every single organized group in Cyrodrill is doing it, because that is how the game is designed to work, sadly.
I wasnt blaming anyone in particular. I was just watching one of the videos, saw that, and took and screen. That's it. I'm not attacking nor defending dracarys or any other pvp group.
People get defensive because a common request to nerf ballgroups is preventing the same healing buff from stacking with itself from alternate sources.Edited by IAmIcehouse on 10 September 2020 20:260 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭IAmIcehouse wrote: »Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »
Anyone who has ever taken a computer science class can probably understand that is very likely one of the issues that produces the server lag. If you have a 24man group, each one with 5-6 rapid regens, you are adding 120 calculations per second, per group, just with HoTs ticking, and the battle havent even started. And i'm not counting the calculation to determine which players get the rapid regen in each case (iterate the full list of player in range, perform checks in each one of them, etc, etc), the so called "smart healing" which is a terrible idea in the first place.
Even withouth having the code of the server, is quite easy to assume that the execution time of these algoritms will be extremely bad on the server.
Ah, of course. Its the 10 person Drac raid lagging the server, not the 80 people crammed into Sej.
Game mechanics like this one are responsible for the server lag, this is not just the 10 people in Dracarys doing it, every single organized group in Cyrodrill is doing it, because that is how the game is designed to work, sadly.
I wasnt blaming anyone in particular. I was just watching one of the videos, saw that, and took and screen. That's it. I'm not attacking nor defending dracarys or any other pvp group.
People get defensive because a common request to nerf ballgroups is preventing the same healing buff from stacking with itself from alternate sources.
I just want ZoS to remove/modify the mechanics that are not sustainable if we want to have a less-laggy experience, nobody enjoys playing in lag. Organized groups don't need 10 rapid regens in each player, they do it because is super-effective. If ZoS change this, organized groups will adapt and find some other way to keep themselves alive. Numbers, group composition and cohesion will always be the deciding factor in the end.
Fix the lag, then we can talk about fine tunning balance. But what is the point of trying to balance a game that it gets unplayable as soon as there enought people playing it?0 -
montiferus✭✭✭✭✭Ball groups are one of the bigger reasons Cryo is a hot mess (certainly not the only reason to be sure). These groups will never change nor will they ever admit their culpability in this perverse crime of terrible game performance. You are wasting their time engaging with them. They are convinced they aren't part of the problem and that their style of play is the highest expression of skill in this game.
Laughable.
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pma_pacifier✭✭✭"Only 10 of us! It can't be us!"
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After raid.. "X y z... why isn't your radiating regeneration/a/b/c buff uptime 100%?" kicked.1 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭montiferus wrote: »Ball groups are one of the bigger reasons Cryo is a hot mess (certainly not the only reason to be sure). These groups will never change nor will they ever admit their culpability in this perverse crime of terrible game performance. You are wasting their time engaging with them. They are convinced they aren't part of the problem and that their style of play is the highest expression of skill in this game.
Laughable.
Every player in Cyro causes some contribution to the games poor performance, a ball group definitely causes more because we optimise our setups and builds to be able to generate the best survivability and damage possible. Therefore we survive longer and cast more skills (due to group support and sustain). This being said, the impact of a ball groups is also a potential reduction to lag. Groups which can actually kill the enemies they face quickly, not just survive for a long time actually normally reduce the lag because their enemies can't cast and contribute to it when they are dead.
For me the main culprits of lag are skills such as healing springs when people are spamming them (this isn't something we actually do but a lot of the 20m+ groups who don't adapt to changes well are still doing so and causing really bad performance). Radiating imo doesn't really contribute that much.
I completely disagree that a drac group of 10 causes as much lag as a 20+ group which is surfing their factions frontline.
@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)6 -
biminirwb17_ESO✭✭✭✭✭I must admit I see my latency go up I think what ball group is running, then Nikel turns Red. 0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »I must admit I see my latency go up I think what ball group is running, then Nikel turns Red.
The thing with actual ball groups (not those surfing faction frontlines) is that we are trying to spread out fights away from the main corridors to lessen the lag on the server.
When there are no groups like ours running and the fights are basically just at bleakers and Sej and players are crashing approaching them because there are so many ppl there it's also really laggy. Quite often we'll be forced to go break up these stalemate zerg fights because the map is completely unplayable with the lag they are creating. Sure when the whole faction then comes back to Fare or Glade etc to try and get us out of it, it can also then contribute to the server lag but I would argue that this would have happened regardless.
The groups that are fighting on the frontlines in these faction stacks spamming skills and still failing to get into breaches etc are more of an issue imo.@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)1 -
Starshadw✭✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »I must admit I see my latency go up I think what ball group is running, then Nikel turns Red.
The thing with actual ball groups (not those surfing faction frontlines) is that we are trying to spread out fights away from the main corridors to lessen the lag on the server.
When there are no groups like ours running and the fights are basically just at bleakers and Sej and players are crashing approaching them because there are so many ppl there it's also really laggy. Quite often we'll be forced to go break up these stalemate zerg fights because the map is completely unplayable with the lag they are creating. Sure when the whole faction then comes back to Fare or Glade etc to try and get us out of it, it can also then contribute to the server lag but I would argue that this would have happened regardless.
The groups that are fighting on the frontlines in these faction stacks spamming skills and still failing to get into breaches etc are more of an issue imo.
Except it doesn't lessen the lag. Anyone on an opposite alliance can literally know the moment you and other ball groups like you get close, no matter where it is you're going - the ping goes up, the fps goes down. Other factions have scouts sitting in their keeps, and we've seen the call-outs in zone of ping jumps as you arrive somewhere. So if you truly are thinking you're helping as opposed to posting this trying to shift blame away from ball groups - this is to let you know that you're most definitely not helping in any way, shape, or form.0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO wrote: »biminirwb17_ESO wrote: »I must admit I see my latency go up I think what ball group is running, then Nikel turns Red.
The thing with actual ball groups (not those surfing faction frontlines) is that we are trying to spread out fights away from the main corridors to lessen the lag on the server.
When there are no groups like ours running and the fights are basically just at bleakers and Sej and players are crashing approaching them because there are so many ppl there it's also really laggy. Quite often we'll be forced to go break up these stalemate zerg fights because the map is completely unplayable with the lag they are creating. Sure when the whole faction then comes back to Fare or Glade etc to try and get us out of it, it can also then contribute to the server lag but I would argue that this would have happened regardless.
The groups that are fighting on the frontlines in these faction stacks spamming skills and still failing to get into breaches etc are more of an issue imo.
Except it doesn't lessen the lag. Anyone on an opposite alliance can literally know the moment you and other ball groups like you get close, no matter where it is you're going - the ping goes up, the fps goes down. Other factions have scouts sitting in their keeps, and we've seen the call-outs in zone of ping jumps as you arrive somewhere. So if you truly are thinking you're helping as opposed to posting this trying to shift blame away from ball groups - this is to let you know that you're most definitely not helping in any way, shape, or form.
Actually this is extremely subjective. For example we regularly run events attended by 5+ guilds ranging from 10-18m. Depending on what is going on with the map our performance during the event will change. additionally it is dependent on how many people are performing actions. For example 1v1v1 of around 40 players on different factions (note: all ball groups) there is no lag at all. When we add a couple of other groups to the mix (increases the numbers up to 64 players all fighting in the same keep or around the same area like vlast), there can be some lag during clashes if there are also other fights going on with the map.
So you experiencing a ping spike may just be related to the fact that the faction hasn't been spread out by a group's actions yet and is still stacking on a frontline.Edited by Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO on 21 September 2020 15:29@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)3 -
JonnytheKing✭✭✭✭we found the lag problem
TWITCH jtk__gaming
GM of Elder-Skills DC PVP Guild NA
Main Toons
MagSorc
MagTemp0 -
Izanagi.Xiiib16_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭@Solar_Breeze
NA ~ Izanerys: Dracarys (Videos | Dracast)
EU ~ Izanagi: Roleplay Circle (AOE Rats/ Zerg Squad / Banana Squad)0
