Healing or Tanking in BG's - Less Point Potential

Dutchessx

Hi - I just wanted to start a discussion in regards to those of us playing healers and tanks in Battle Grounds. I have played a healer and group support for majority of the game which I enjoy. One of the things I have noticed is that even though I am doing some damage and/or executing other players, I am not getting the same points that my fellow players are who are doing damage are getting. Other players I know who enjoy playing tanks are having a similar issue with not getting the same points other players are getting. This is an issue I would like to see addressed by ZOS and wondered if anyone else has encountered this issue.

Ashamray

Yeah, healers generally receive less points, but i'm ok with that coz it can discourage to play 1-2 healers in each team. What surprises me is that assist poinst are not easy for healers too. What is that assist exactly?

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO

Do the points do anything? I have not played but I would think since it is a team gmae mode that individual score doesnt matter and only winning does and healers and tanks can help loads with that.

soll

I usually play full healer at BG, and it does feel sometimes pretty bad, when in final score you are having hardly nay points, 0-1 kills and few deaths. Basically, game shows me that I was meh. However same time I could save my group from many wipes and etc.

Don't really care about it though, victory means final result.

Maybe this way ZOS prevents too much healers in BG? Once on PTS I was playing in group of 3, where all of us were healer.
looked poor.

cazlonb16_ESO

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Do the points do anything? I have not played but I would think since it is a team gmae mode that individual score doesnt matter and only winning does and healers and tanks can help loads with that.

I'm fairly sure they determine your personal item rewards, while AP rewards depend on the outcome of the match. I didn't pay much attention though cos I don't need either, so i could be wrong.

Generally speaking I think the reward structure needs some refinement

Dutchessx

Lightspeedflashb14_ESO wrote: »

Do the points do anything? I have not played but I would think since it is a team gmae mode that individual score doesnt matter and only winning does and healers and tanks can help loads with that.

Points also determine placement on the leaderboards so if you are a healer or a tank you can count on never getting leaderboard placement for rewards.

Ashamray wrote: »

Yeah, healers generally receive less points, but i'm ok with that coz it can discourage to play 1-2 healers in each team. What surprises me is that assist poinst are not easy for healers too. What is that assist exactly?

The only time I have seen assist points is when I helped kill a player but didn't get the killing blow, I could be mistaken but I don't think so. Revamping assit points to include heals would be fine with me. To have to do large amounts of kills or assit kills to get points means at some point I can't keep my focus on keeping my team healed.

While I can understand not wanting to stack dedicated heals in a premade 4 man team, at the moment solo queing is still not as broke as queing a 4 man team. When I do solo que I have been placed in a 2v4v4 where I was one of the 2 healers in a 2 man group it sucked because our damage was too low and the same can be said in a 3 man. I can really only see that argument being correct if it is a premade 4 man group with 2 players running builds focused on high damage where all people are knowledgeable & confident in their class & builds. Otherwise I think 2 healers would be to much for the average 4 man group imho.

Dutchessx

soll wrote: »

I usually play full healer at BG, and it does feel sometimes pretty bad, when in final score you are having hardly nay points, 0-1 kills and few deaths. Basically, game shows me that I was meh. However same time I could save my group from many wipes and etc.

Don't really care about it though, victory means final result.

Maybe this way ZOS prevents too much healers in BG? Once on PTS I was playing in group of 3, where all of us were healer.
looked poor.

@Soll I also wanted to say.. I understand your perspective and some what agree to a point. When you have pvp'ed since launch it does become more about the fight and pushing your personal best. However, why should I as a healer get less rewards than others? To me it is a healer penalty. The rewards you get at the end of the week are not bound I could choose to use them or sell them just like anyone else. So why shouldn't I as a healer get that same opportunity as others? I am also sure points are not an accurate representation of how good you are as a healer. However, don't you think you should have some reward for your healing just as the rest of your team gets rewarded for damage? Heals are overlooked A LOT in this game because it is sexier to watch someone 1vX, 2vX, etc. In my opinion this was probably an oversight by ZOS thinking there would be no dedicated heals or a dedicated tank. I know it is an assumption but it is my opinion.
*Note: I say "I" but I mean us in general as dedicated healers. Also note I don't play a tank in BG's but I have included them because of people who I play with who are having similar issues.

raknorok

Should there be another scoring mechanism to give points for mitigating damage or damage received from guarding another player? I feel like some support roles/styles are not properly awarded.

AnteCoyote

I played pure healer/tank warden for my first few days of BGs and I was generally the top points for my team from all of the tanking and healing trophies and focusing almost entirely on objectives, even with absolutely no kills (sometimes my light attacks would get a killing blow, which was exciting). I've switched to a more damage-focused build and I haven't seen much difference in the score I get, except for in deathmatch games.

So yeah, I don't think it's the role that is the problem. Objectives give the most points. Templar healers with radiant oppression probably get even more points from all of the well-deserved killing blows they get.

Maole1989

raknorok wrote: »

Should there be another scoring mechanism to give points for mitigating damage or damage received from guarding another player? I feel like some support roles/styles are not properly awarded.

I agree. I like to tank in BG too and unfortunately my score at the end of the match makes me look like I did nothing lol. The scoreboard at the end of the match doesn't reflect our contributions. It would be awesome if there was 'damaged received'.

raknorok

Example of tanking providing useful synergies, guard saves, and clutch heals/stuns in a deathmatch.

timidobserver

If you listen to the ESO Live where Wheeler and Lambert give their vision for battlegrounds, endlessly tanking and healing doesn't really fit that vision. They want a fast paced, high action environment. If you want a solid amount of points while healing or tanking, you probably should adjust your build so that you can put out a bit of dps as well. As a Templar healer it's easy just execute low health targets.

Maole1989

timidobserver wrote: »

If you listen to the ESO Live where Wheeler and Lambert give their vision for battlegrounds, endlessly tanking and healing doesn't really fit that vision. They want a fast paced, high action environment. If you want a solid amount of points while healing or tanking, you probably should adjust your build so that you can put out a bit of dps as well. As a Templar healer it's easy just execute low health targets.

I understand what you're saying and believe that the fast paced, high action environment has been achieved by the universal sustain changes and making BG non-cp. However, I believe all roles should be rewarded accordingly to encourage diversity and not just those who deal the most damage and have the most kills. I'm not having a go at you but it was my understanding that my belief fits in with the direction of 'play how you want to play' - another vision from ZOS. Perhaps BG is the exception?

Kaladin_Ninefingers

timidobserver wrote: »

If you listen to the ESO Live where Wheeler and Lambert give their vision for battlegrounds, endlessly tanking and healing doesn't really fit that vision. They want a fast paced, high action environment. If you want a solid amount of points while healing or tanking, you probably should adjust your build so that you can put out a bit of dps as well. As a Templar healer it's easy just execute low health targets.

I am new to ESO. I love healing in MMOs and I love arena style pvp. I was excited by BGs and am now levelling a templar healer with the hopes that I can heal in end game BGs. But this thread just killed it for me If ZOS wants to make BGs DPS oriented, its just sad. Someone tell me this isn't true.

Paraflex

I'm a healer and ended up number 1 for domination you have lots of extra medals as a healer. Deathmatch healers will never end up on.

It's unfortunate but medals are favored for DPS classes.

Johnnny

If they don't reward healing and tanking BGs are going to be onedimansional and will count even less on teamplay.

As long as I'm concerned I think this is a role playing game and every individual should be rewarded for playing specific roles, and then the team that also had a better teamplay should be better rewarded, as well.

For me it's simple, make BG wins count more than individual points. I'm not there to make some stream and look like I'm a boss, I'm there to win the BG, and right now, if I was a healer I would not enjoy playing BGs, even tho I know healers should have a high win rate there.

Make some leaderboards count toward wins, not individual points.

Good thing I play magSorc tho. I just need to endless rage nonstop.

Dutchessx

For clarification as a healer in BG's: I heal, I place dots, I use executes, and I even do some damage as needed so it isn't a l2p issue. Even in doing all of that and at times even having no deaths my points still look like I did very little. My points compared to those doing dps is very little. I have at times even come out of a match with 50 pts. The one I just mentioned I played group support heals, dots, and used radiant destruction but got no assist kills for it & was not the one with the final blow so no kills. Other times I have done the exact same thing & got 1700 points, where one of the guys doing dps got well over 4K in points.
Note: I am not taking about capture the flag -- domination or death match. Even though capture the flag is worse because sorry I'm not stam so I don't run very fast but I can keep you healed & with some resource return (lol).

Rickter

Dutchessx wrote: »

For clarification as a healer in BG's: I heal, I place dots, I use executes, and I even do some damage as needed so it isn't a l2p issue.

can confirm: its not learn to play. Dutch is a stone cold killer.

Dutchessx

Kaladin_Ninefingers wrote: »

I am new to ESO. I love healing in MMOs and I love arena style pvp. I was excited by BGs and am now levelling a templar healer with the hopes that I can heal in end game BGs. But this thread just killed it for me If ZOS wants to make BGs DPS oriented, its just sad. Someone tell me this isn't true.

Hi Kaladin_Ninefingers - I hope you don't change your mind about healing in pvp be it in battlegrounds or in cyrodiil. My purpose in this tread is twofold. (1) I wanted to see if other people had the same concerns that I do in regards to healing and tanking in BG's. (2) Raise awareness to facilitate change in the game. So far I feel that yes there are at least a few who have seen similar issues but not very successful in facilitating change.

Dutchessx

Rickter wrote: »

Dutchessx wrote: »

For clarification as a healer in BG's: I heal, I place dots, I use executes, and I even do some damage as needed so it isn't a l2p issue.

can confirm: its not learn to play. Dutch is a stone cold killer.

Lol thanks @Rickter

Jamini

I've found that by changing my gear sets and skills up a bit I was able to greatly boost my score as a tank/help my group's healer score much higher.

For my tank, I swapped out some ult-gen/defensive gear for a more offensive set (while still maintaining my abilities that disrupt). Specifically swapping Dragonguard weapons for 7th legion, and running Take Flight/Onslaught over Corrosive Armor. I also run Stalwart Guard when running with a healer.

For my group's healer, he swapped out combat prayer for Radiant Destruction. He was also running worm/kags. Normally he was my guard target, bumping his damage resistance by 30%

Shortly after the change, both of us went from averaging in the 1k-1.2k range to scoring regularly in the 2.7k-3k range. The combination of low deaths, better overall damage/strong executes, and tons of ability to shrug off damage really helped.

Also to be honest, a single good healer on a BG team is a massive force multiplier. The only real counter to a BG healer is a very well-coordinated stun and group burst.