New Caltrops Morph Poll, Morrowind.

FlyLionel

Caltrops:
Multiple player characters can now stack this ability and its morphs in the same area and damage the same target.
Reduced the size of this ability and its morphs to 8 meters from 12 meters.
Reduced the duration of this ability and its morphs to 12 seconds from 30 seconds.
Reduced the cost of this ability and its morphs by approximately 50%.
Increased the damage of this ability and its morphs by approximately 75%.
Developer Comments:
Spoiler
The changes to Caltrops allow it to behave more like a standard ground-targeted damage over time ability, such as Lightning Splash or Volley. This will help improve Stamina builds’ sustained single target and area of effect damage in dungeons and Trials.

From a console player on ps4/NA, I can only give you my thoughts without playing the PTS. Maybe the morph performs better in pvp and it is all good? I just think having a pve and pvp morph for an assault skill is fair. I want the long duration caltrops with a huge aoe to snare a large amount of players come keep time in pvp, and I also would like to buff stamina universally somewhat with the new pve change.

Edit: Sorry no option for other, on my celly and clicked go by accident. No option to add it. Say otherwise in any case!

Turelus

I like the change to both morphs and cannot wait for both pvp/pve with it

The changes looked good to me, seems to function a lot more like every other placeable AoE now.

I do think Calvary caltrops should just be reworked into something else though, maybe ones a better snare and ones a better DPS? One is wider with less damage, on is smaller with more damage.

I don't know anyone who's ever actually used calvary caltrops because it's so pointless.

Izaki

Well... Everything depends on how long Anti-Cavalry will last. If it lasts 20 sec at the cost of an initial hit I'm taking that. If its some weird duration like 16 or 17 sec, then I don't really care lol

Thraben

Just look how it works out. Could be a real nice raid against raid dps skill now.

FlyLionel

Thraben wrote: »

just look how it works out.

@Thraben Maybe you can do that for me since you are on PC? Or are you console? I am waiting, but I do not have the highest of hopes.

Thraben

You won´t be able to evaluate the results before June, because it´s a "Raid against Raid" skill, and you can only see how such skills perform after people are able to use them on a massive scale.

Remember the time when Eye-of-the-Noob came out? Everyone was like "meh", and now it utterly dominates group pvp.

Lynx7386

I like the change to both morphs and cannot wait for both pvp/pve with it

They didn't just make this change for pve, imo; it's also probably influenced by battlegrounds. The old aoe size and duration would've been too powerful in the smaller arenas battlegrounds are based on.

FlyLionel

Thraben wrote: »

You won´t be able to evaluate the results before June, because it´s a "Raid against Raid" skill, and you can only see how such skills perform after people are able to use them on a massive scale.

Remember the time when Eye-of-the-Noob came out? Everyone was like "meh", and now it utterly dominates group pvp.

Actually I can evaluate and form my own opinion since I have been playing the game since it came out, and I know what I am speaking about. Coming to a complete conclusion is what you are talking about and it is early in the pts, I already know that. Console players' information and facts come from experience and these new patch notes subject to change. Our hopes are with PC players (you?), and yes I remember when that ultimate was introduced. I think experienced players in pvp already knew that it was going to be great. It was mainly the other morph that was lackluster, but that is besides the point.

FlyLionel

Lynx7386 wrote: »

They didn't just make this change for pve, imo; it's also probably influenced by battlegrounds. The old aoe size and duration would've been too powerful in the smaller arenas battlegrounds are based on.

That is a good point, slipped my mind. But caltrops over performing? Eye of the noob would overperform if that is the case, especially since ult will not be cleared prior to entering BG's. Maybe.

WalksonGraves

FlyLionel wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

They didn't just make this change for pve, imo; it's also probably influenced by battlegrounds. The old aoe size and duration would've been too powerful in the smaller arenas battlegrounds are based on.

That is a good point, slipped my mind. But caltrops over performing? Eye of the noob would overperform if that is the case, especially since ult will not be cleared prior to entering BG's. Maybe.

I think the issue was the huge area and ability to proc melee effects, I never got much use out of it purely because of it's high cost.

Lynx7386

I like the change to both morphs and cannot wait for both pvp/pve with it

FlyLionel wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

They didn't just make this change for pve, imo; it's also probably influenced by battlegrounds. The old aoe size and duration would've been too powerful in the smaller arenas battlegrounds are based on.

That is a good point, slipped my mind. But caltrops over performing? Eye of the noob would overperform if that is the case, especially since ult will not be cleared prior to entering BG's. Maybe.

A snare that big on a control objective or capture the flag match? It's not just about the damage

OrphanHelgen

The thing is, I'm sure its a great solution for pve stamina, but its abit cheap solution to rework a skill like that. I think better overall solutions would be to add skills in soul magic, thiefs guild and dark brotherhood. Atm, those are most passives and no skills or ultimate connected to them.

WalksonGraves

Yeah I was so disappointed blade of woe was a rp abilty and not a back stab ability.

FlyLionel

Lynx7386 wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Lynx7386 wrote: »

They didn't just make this change for pve, imo; it's also probably influenced by battlegrounds. The old aoe size and duration would've been too powerful in the smaller arenas battlegrounds are based on.

That is a good point, slipped my mind. But caltrops over performing? Eye of the noob would overperform if that is the case, especially since ult will not be cleared prior to entering BG's. Maybe.

A snare that big on a control objective or capture the flag match? It's not just about the damage

Good point @Lynx7386

Izaki

Well actually... Caltrops isn't exactly a boost in single target DPS and is a massive nerf in sustain.

Why?

Old Caltrops needed to be applied once every 30 seconds.
New Caltrops needs to be applied 3 times in 30 seconds (and you have to cut 2 ticks short for it to line up with most rotations) which totally cancels out the 75% damage boost.
New Caltrops cost 50% less but need to be applied 3 times in 30 seconds meaning that in fact the effective cost is increased by 50%.

Will it be better in AoE? Sure. In ST? No.

Cronopoly

I like the change to both morphs and cannot wait for both pvp/pve with it

I fear Cyrodil will be "Caltrops online" now with the stacking mechanism.I can see single chokepoints for Keep entry likely having 80K DPS stacked to gib anyone entering. and "the bridge" is likely dead, though that's not a bad thing.

Ashtaris

The thing of it is that ZOS is trying to give Stamina builds a nice AOE ability with the new Caltrops, but it's behind a damn PVP wall. Sorc's don't have to PVP to get Lightning Splash, neither does a archer need to do so to get Volley. Why should a new player be required to PVP just to get a nice AOE ability?

Izaki

Cronopoly wrote: »

I fear Cyrodil will be "Caltrops online" now with the stacking mechanism.I can see single chokepoints for Keep entry likely having 80K DPS stacked to gib anyone entering. and "the bridge" is likely dead, though that's not a bad thing.

But what's the difference in stacking Caltrops as opposed to stacking Endless Hail or Elemental Blockade?

FlyLionel

IzakiBrotherSs wrote: »

Cronopoly wrote: »

I fear Cyrodil will be "Caltrops online" now with the stacking mechanism.I can see single chokepoints for Keep entry likely having 80K DPS stacked to gib anyone entering. and "the bridge" is likely dead, though that's not a bad thing.

But what's the difference in stacking Caltrops as opposed to stacking Endless Hail or Elemental Blockade?

Everyone has access to it without a certain weapon. Isnt it bigger as well?

acw37162

Cronopoly wrote: »

I fear Cyrodil will be "Caltrops online" now with the stacking mechanism.I can see single chokepoints for Keep entry likely having 80K DPS stacked to gib anyone entering. and "the bridge" is likely dead, though that's not a bad thing.

40 K battle spirit, you know.

PVE Buff PVP nerf

s7732425ub17_ESO

Ashtaris wrote: »

The thing of it is that ZOS is trying to give Stamina builds a nice AOE ability with the new Caltrops, but it's behind a damn PVP wall. Sorc's don't have to PVP to get Lightning Splash, neither does a archer need to do so to get Volley. Why should a new player be required to PVP just to get a nice AOE ability?

They already made it 90% quicker to get Caltrops than when it was originally released. They aren't going to move it out of Alliance War.

s7732425ub17_ESO

I need to test Caltrops on the PTS. It'll be a simple damage test to see which morph is preferred. If the longer duration does more damage overall, it'll probably be the winner.

Xvorg

I like the change; but would like to keep the old razor caltrops morph for pvp while introducing the new morph erasing Anti-Cavalry. Both pve and pvp morphs.

If bridge wars were long, with new caltrops they are gonna be eternal...

Jsmalls

So this is what I'm concerned about... Caltrops hit me for about 500 each tick (idk what kind of VP setup that person had I'm sure it can hit for a lot more). With a 75% buff that'll probably push most players dot tick well over 1000. If a large PvP group stacks this ability like say 15 or so players.... That's 15k damage a second... And people thought destro ults were bad. How could you possibly take a keep if this is scattered on the floor???

Just my .02 on the ability...

I'm happy that it'll work in PvE because stamina needs it... But I'd rather that scenario not exist in PvP as well.

Majeure

I like the change to both morphs and cannot wait for both pvp/pve with it

New caltrops is fine, that's one of the few good changes lost in a sea of depression.

GreenSoup2HoT

Thraben wrote: »

You won´t be able to evaluate the results before June, because it´s a "Raid against Raid" skill, and you can only see how such skills perform after people are able to use them on a massive scale.

Remember the time when Eye-of-the-Noob came out? Everyone was like "meh", and now it utterly dominates group pvp.

Everyone was like Meh when EotS was balanced in pts... then ZOS did what they do best, either nerf something into the gorund or buff is so much that even stamina characters are using it. LOL.