Nerf bastion champion point

LordSlif

Temp and dk lose much of their survability because of the major mending nerf, but the sorc continues with their super shields and pirate skeleton. If its a global nerf, nerfs sorcs too, dont let them untouchables.

Waffennacht

They did

LordSlif

Waffennacht wrote: »

They did

What they did bro?

Waffennacht

Here, this is a really good explanation:

Minalan wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I bet most of the complainers are stacking crit chance and crit dmg along with penetration to combat hvy armour..

You guys know, right that if you take cp out of crit damage, there is a star you can add it to that increases damage to shields... If you drop spriggarns and instead add a weapon damage set or proc set like hundings or viper...
There's is a set specifically to do damage through shields, also don't oblivion enchants go through too?

Yknow, building to combat shields instead of armour. Of course if everyone did that the boards would be full of heavy armour is op threads instead ..

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Waffennacht @Minalan

Sorcerer shields were actually nerfed, like semi significantly... Probably by about 15-20%. I didn't realize it at first but we didn't escape unscathed. Going to try to avoid explaining it because I'd rather Pubs not know. But the smart players will catch on... Kind of sucks.

I think I know what you're talking about, and if it is, Im impressed with your knowledge of Sorcs.

If we are on the same page, we can make up for it, just at a cost of something pretty useful... to the point where I'm actually questioning if it could be made up for...

It's no big secret, it's all in the patch notes. The masses of pubs just can't read.

To help low CP players compete, diminishing returns on CP investment is now pure stupid. Dumping 25 points into a tree for a 2% gain is asinine. Thus, (the few smart) people will have enough points left for a generous amount of shattering blows without putting too many points into that tree. A good player will forego 1% crit damage and 1% elemental damage and take 10-15% shattering. Potatoes will go full 100 in both and blubber to ZOS about shields.

On top of that, elemental defender and Hardy CP took a hit, so damage against shields will go up 10-15%. Those CP are the only ones that reduce damage against shields, and shields have zero armor rating.

To make up for it, you'll have to stack on more max magicka, which costs slots. Or use major protection items/ultimates. Either way you're looking at shields that go down 20% faster (on the low end).

The hordes of whiners and half-wits will continue to complain. The people who understand math and basic game mechanics will say 'well played ZOS'.

He's kinda frustrated so excuse the... upsetness?

KingJ

Waffennacht wrote: »

Here, this is a really good explanation:

Minalan wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I bet most of the complainers are stacking crit chance and crit dmg along with penetration to combat hvy armour..

You guys know, right that if you take cp out of crit damage, there is a star you can add it to that increases damage to shields... If you drop spriggarns and instead add a weapon damage set or proc set like hundings or viper...
There's is a set specifically to do damage through shields, also don't oblivion enchants go through too?

Yknow, building to combat shields instead of armour. Of course if everyone did that the boards would be full of heavy armour is op threads instead ..

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Waffennacht @Minalan

Sorcerer shields were actually nerfed, like semi significantly... Probably by about 15-20%. I didn't realize it at first but we didn't escape unscathed. Going to try to avoid explaining it because I'd rather Pubs not know. But the smart players will catch on... Kind of sucks.

I think I know what you're talking about, and if it is, Im impressed with your knowledge of Sorcs.

If we are on the same page, we can make up for it, just at a cost of something pretty useful... to the point where I'm actually questioning if it could be made up for...

It's no big secret, it's all in the patch notes. The masses of pubs just can't read.

To help low CP players compete, diminishing returns on CP investment is now pure stupid. Dumping 25 points into a tree for a 2% gain is asinine. Thus, (the few smart) people will have enough points left for a generous amount of shattering blows without putting too many points into that tree. A good player will forego 1% crit damage and 1% elemental damage and take 10-15% shattering. Potatoes will go full 100 in both and blubber to ZOS about shields.

On top of that, elemental defender and Hardy CP took a hit, so damage against shields will go up 10-15%. Those CP are the only ones that reduce damage against shields, and shields have zero armor rating.

To make up for it, you'll have to stack on more max magicka, which costs slots. Or use major protection items/ultimates. Either way you're looking at shields that go down 20% faster (on the low end).

The hordes of whiners and half-wits will continue to complain. The people who understand math and basic game mechanics will say 'well played ZOS'.

He's kinda frustrated so excuse the... upsetness?

While shields are affected other armor types are affected more for example players in medium armor will take even more damage than they currently do on live which will force more people into heavy armor.Heavy armor will still be a thing next patch because Zos didn't do much to damage and with proc sets making a big comback from being boost by CP and not costing resources to cast more player are going to use heavy to mitigate all the incoming damage.

LordSlif

Waffennacht wrote: »

Here, this is a really good explanation:

Minalan wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I bet most of the complainers are stacking crit chance and crit dmg along with penetration to combat hvy armour..

You guys know, right that if you take cp out of crit damage, there is a star you can add it to that increases damage to shields... If you drop spriggarns and instead add a weapon damage set or proc set like hundings or viper...
There's is a set specifically to do damage through shields, also don't oblivion enchants go through too?

Yknow, building to combat shields instead of armour. Of course if everyone did that the boards would be full of heavy armour is op threads instead ..

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Waffennacht @Minalan

Sorcerer shields were actually nerfed, like semi significantly... Probably by about 15-20%. I didn't realize it at first but we didn't escape unscathed. Going to try to avoid explaining it because I'd rather Pubs not know. But the smart players will catch on... Kind of sucks.

I think I know what you're talking about, and if it is, Im impressed with your knowledge of Sorcs.

If we are on the same page, we can make up for it, just at a cost of something pretty useful... to the point where I'm actually questioning if it could be made up for...

It's no big secret, it's all in the patch notes. The masses of pubs just can't read.

To help low CP players compete, diminishing returns on CP investment is now pure stupid. Dumping 25 points into a tree for a 2% gain is asinine. Thus, (the few smart) people will have enough points left for a generous amount of shattering blows without putting too many points into that tree. A good player will forego 1% crit damage and 1% elemental damage and take 10-15% shattering. Potatoes will go full 100 in both and blubber to ZOS about shields.

On top of that, elemental defender and Hardy CP took a hit, so damage against shields will go up 10-15%. Those CP are the only ones that reduce damage against shields, and shields have zero armor rating.

To make up for it, you'll have to stack on more max magicka, which costs slots. Or use major protection items/ultimates. Either way you're looking at shields that go down 20% faster (on the low end).

The hordes of whiners and half-wits will continue to complain. The people who understand math and basic game mechanics will say 'well played ZOS'.

He's kinda frustrated so excuse the... upsetness?

Yes, I understood, Ty. This nerf wil affect all classes, right. but Temp and dk lost heals, templar lost stuns... its a big list of nerfs bro. Can you imagine how much healing stamDK lost?

LordSlif

KingJ wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Here, this is a really good explanation:

Minalan wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I bet most of the complainers are stacking crit chance and crit dmg along with penetration to combat hvy armour..

You guys know, right that if you take cp out of crit damage, there is a star you can add it to that increases damage to shields... If you drop spriggarns and instead add a weapon damage set or proc set like hundings or viper...
There's is a set specifically to do damage through shields, also don't oblivion enchants go through too?

Yknow, building to combat shields instead of armour. Of course if everyone did that the boards would be full of heavy armour is op threads instead ..

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Waffennacht @Minalan

Sorcerer shields were actually nerfed, like semi significantly... Probably by about 15-20%. I didn't realize it at first but we didn't escape unscathed. Going to try to avoid explaining it because I'd rather Pubs not know. But the smart players will catch on... Kind of sucks.

I think I know what you're talking about, and if it is, Im impressed with your knowledge of Sorcs.

If we are on the same page, we can make up for it, just at a cost of something pretty useful... to the point where I'm actually questioning if it could be made up for...

It's no big secret, it's all in the patch notes. The masses of pubs just can't read.

To help low CP players compete, diminishing returns on CP investment is now pure stupid. Dumping 25 points into a tree for a 2% gain is asinine. Thus, (the few smart) people will have enough points left for a generous amount of shattering blows without putting too many points into that tree. A good player will forego 1% crit damage and 1% elemental damage and take 10-15% shattering. Potatoes will go full 100 in both and blubber to ZOS about shields.

On top of that, elemental defender and Hardy CP took a hit, so damage against shields will go up 10-15%. Those CP are the only ones that reduce damage against shields, and shields have zero armor rating.

To make up for it, you'll have to stack on more max magicka, which costs slots. Or use major protection items/ultimates. Either way you're looking at shields that go down 20% faster (on the low end).

The hordes of whiners and half-wits will continue to complain. The people who understand math and basic game mechanics will say 'well played ZOS'.

He's kinda frustrated so excuse the... upsetness?

While shields are affected other armor types are affected more for example players in medium armor will take even more damage than they currently do on live which will force more people into heavy armor.Heavy armor will still be a thing next patch because Zos didn't do much to damage and with proc sets making a big comback from being boost by CP and not costing resources to cast more player are going to use heavy to mitigate all the incoming damage.

Yeah all classes will receive more damage, not only sorcs. Oooh and no crit on shields btw and if players will receive more damage the critical damage will be even greater.

Biro123

Actually with the constitution nerf, I expect to see less heavy...

If it wasn't for that I'd be switching my sorc to heavy this patch. I saw it in the notes as described above, and I can see that shields have been hit really hard. Most ppl just don't see it.

I mean, an extra DMG cp, less DMG reduction, more spend in shattering, sustain builds means much less mag stacking which will make my shields about 3k weaker to start with. Then having to cast more cos they drop quicker with a higher cost...
That's 5, 5!! direct nerfs to shield stacking, and most people can't see it.

Ultimate_Overlord

@Waffennacht Yeah, cause sorcs didnt get extra cp they can spend on direct and dot dmg reduction, crit resist. And no cp campaigns such as azura or bwb dont exist.
But in all seriousness, this indirect sorc nerf conspiracy thing must be one of the dumbest things ive seen here on forums, and theres a lot of dumb things. I guess you can say dks, templars and nbs got nerfed even more cause ppl can spend more cp on befoul too. Oh, and what about the amberplasm sorc meta build being able to spend more cp on stam and magicka regen? Confirmed sorc buff there if you ask me.
Also another point, why do ppl not realize that if something was nerfed it can still need another nerf?

Waffennacht

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@Waffennacht Yeah, cause sorcs didnt get extra cp they can spend on direct and dot dmg reduction, crit resist. And no cp campaigns such as azura or bwb dont exist.
But in all seriousness, this indirect sorc nerf conspiracy thing must be one of the dumbest things ive seen here on forums, and theres a lot of dumb things. I guess you can say dks, templars and nbs got nerfed even more cause ppl can spend more cp on befoul too. Oh, and what about the amberplasm sorc meta build being able to spend more cp on stam and magicka regen? Confirmed sorc buff there if you ask me.
Also another point, why do ppl not realize that if something was nerfed it can still need another nerf?

You know, with CP being front loaded, no, you cannot spend extra CP to achieve the same results. At 50ish CP into bastion, we get 25% less than before.

So no, you cannot just spend more CP

Izaki

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@Waffennacht Yeah, cause sorcs didnt get extra cp they can spend on direct and dot dmg reduction, crit resist. And no cp campaigns such as azura or bwb dont exist.
But in all seriousness, this indirect sorc nerf conspiracy thing must be one of the dumbest things ive seen here on forums, and theres a lot of dumb things. I guess you can say dks, templars and nbs got nerfed even more cause ppl can spend more cp on befoul too. Oh, and what about the amberplasm sorc meta build being able to spend more cp on stam and magicka regen? Confirmed sorc buff there if you ask me.
Also another point, why do ppl not realize that if something was nerfed it can still need another nerf?

You say "conspiracy" of indirect nerfs, yet you didn't mention a single Sorc thing in your comment. Sorc's only way to sustain was cost reduction and recovery. They deleted the former and nerfed the latter in the CP system. They relied on that more than other classes who had other ways of sustaining

That "meta" build with Amberplasm is absolutely not meta at all and there's maybe one or 2 people using it aside from Faso and Malcolm. It doesn't stand a chance against a standard Sorc build and it has no damage. And the sustain isn't much better than on a Lich build anyway.

Jsmalls

@Ultimate_Overlord

Things people don't understand often get written off as "conspiracy theories". It's okay to ask for help in understanding...

If you're talking about the extra 30 CP! EVERYONE is getting they will cancel each other out. Next patch we're allotted 210 CP to spend in each tree. On live we have 200, I don't know the exact perfect placement of CP in the red tree, but mine go one this. 90 into Bastion (close to 24%), 45 into ele def, 45 into Hardy, and 20 into crit resist. Next update they are ADDING another mitigation star Ironclad. So in order to counter act other people's placement into Master of arms we HAVE to put points into Ironclad. What does this mean? It means an ideal placement will be 50 into each Bastion, Hardy, Ele def, and Ironclad with the remaining 10 going into crit resist. Don't worry I'll do the math for you. That 50 into Bastion puts it at ~18% a 6% decrease in shield strength. Now that's JUST the red tree.

Remember Shattering Blows, you know the CP Star designed to combat shield stacking, that everyone ignores then complains that shieldstacking is Overpowered? Yeah that one. So due to front loaded CP you can put as little as 20 points into that star (which is widely advised since you aren't spending more than 50 points into your normal stars anymore) and you'll gain 10 to 15% damage towards shields out of those measly 20 points. So I'll add up those percentages for you don't worry. That's a rough 20% difference in Live shields vs Patch Shields. No conspiracies, no smoke and mirrors, just cold hard math...

Technically speaking yes healing is nerfed through the defile CP star, but I'll give you a hint. Two classes are given "decent" defile abilities. Nightblades Incap and Warden's AoE move. One is an ultimate, and Warden's AoE defile will be insanely powerful. Should definitely be looked into and reaccessed. I guess you can run around with reverb bash and troll people, guess time will tell if that will be a problem.

Amberplasm is a SET available to all classes. Every class can take advantage of it's bonuses. And dark conversion isn't nearly as safe to use as dark deal. If we run out of Stamina we're dead. That ability is a HUGE risk reward factor. Plus amberplasm is a sustain set... Just like running seducer etc. It lowers your damage output.

And to your last point. If you think a 20% change in shield strength still isn't enough of a nerf, and you want more then you aren't asking for balance you are asking for easy kills.

Thanks for your time, and remember ignorance is overcome by knowledge.

Ultimate_Overlord

@Jsmalls
1st off, you dont have to be condescending if someone doesnt agree with your theory.
I was not talking about the 30 cp, i was talking about the whole cp redesign with frontloaded passives, by "extra cp" i meant the leftover cp you will have cause anyone with a brain wont put more than 80cp in one star next patch,
Your theory is flawed, cause no one is gonna invest that much cp to counter 1 class, well, they will after so many sorcs will appear after the nerfs to all other classes. Sure, they can put 20 points and get 10% or whatever, but sorcs can get MUCH more defense with this change, due to them having 6 good defensive stars as opposed to 5 for every other class.
Thing is, bastion was supposed to be countered by shattering blows, but for sorcs inblbesting cp into bastion increases pretty much all their defense against every class, while investing cp into shattering blows for other classes is nowhere near as efficient.
Currently, only 3 strong cp stars work against sorcs (straight dmg, direct or dot dmg, shattering blows), but theres 5 that work against other classes.
And as for amberplasm, i just ised it as an example. The point was that sorc is the only magicka class that can turn excess stam into magicka and do it extremely efficiently, so they are the only class that can partially make up for the loss of magician by spending those points in mooncalf.
And cost reduction is just as important to other classes as it is to sorcs. In fact, it is even more important cause theyre all almost forced to run heavy to perform effectively.
I called it a conspiracy cause it just looks incredibly funny how youre trying to find a nerf to sorcs where there isnt one, almost looks like youre trying to find a defense against everyone who is agnry at zos leaving one of the already strongest classes untouched.

Lexxypwns

KingJ wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Here, this is a really good explanation:

Minalan wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

I bet most of the complainers are stacking crit chance and crit dmg along with penetration to combat hvy armour..

You guys know, right that if you take cp out of crit damage, there is a star you can add it to that increases damage to shields... If you drop spriggarns and instead add a weapon damage set or proc set like hundings or viper...
There's is a set specifically to do damage through shields, also don't oblivion enchants go through too?

Yknow, building to combat shields instead of armour. Of course if everyone did that the boards would be full of heavy armour is op threads instead ..

Waffennacht wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Waffennacht @Minalan

Sorcerer shields were actually nerfed, like semi significantly... Probably by about 15-20%. I didn't realize it at first but we didn't escape unscathed. Going to try to avoid explaining it because I'd rather Pubs not know. But the smart players will catch on... Kind of sucks.

I think I know what you're talking about, and if it is, Im impressed with your knowledge of Sorcs.

If we are on the same page, we can make up for it, just at a cost of something pretty useful... to the point where I'm actually questioning if it could be made up for...

It's no big secret, it's all in the patch notes. The masses of pubs just can't read.

To help low CP players compete, diminishing returns on CP investment is now pure stupid. Dumping 25 points into a tree for a 2% gain is asinine. Thus, (the few smart) people will have enough points left for a generous amount of shattering blows without putting too many points into that tree. A good player will forego 1% crit damage and 1% elemental damage and take 10-15% shattering. Potatoes will go full 100 in both and blubber to ZOS about shields.

On top of that, elemental defender and Hardy CP took a hit, so damage against shields will go up 10-15%. Those CP are the only ones that reduce damage against shields, and shields have zero armor rating.

To make up for it, you'll have to stack on more max magicka, which costs slots. Or use major protection items/ultimates. Either way you're looking at shields that go down 20% faster (on the low end).

The hordes of whiners and half-wits will continue to complain. The people who understand math and basic game mechanics will say 'well played ZOS'.

He's kinda frustrated so excuse the... upsetness?

While shields are affected other armor types are affected more for example players in medium armor will take even more damage than they currently do on live which will force more people into heavy armor.Heavy armor will still be a thing next patch because Zos didn't do much to damage and with proc sets making a big comback from being boost by CP and not costing resources to cast more player are going to use heavy to mitigate all the incoming damage.

@Waffennacht tagging you because this applies to what you've said as well.

Speculation about shattering blows is fine and all, but with the decreases to sustain and the increase in overall magika pools damage shield are going to be significantly stronger next patch. You simply can't run the same amount of damage next patch and damage shield sizes will be getting larger because of increased resource pool and added value to max stat stacking as a way to increase sustain.

Harness is going to be INSANE, the classic sorc triple shield stack is going to be very very strong. Add in pirate and its GG. Furthermore, you'll actually be stacking similar damage resists on your shield since we have a larger CP pool, front loaded stars, and more options now.

I'm not crying for nerfs yet, I main sorc, a class that was already top tier but received no direct nerfs in the face of other classes getting nerfed its gonna be hard to not be OP, seems unlikely.

Waffennacht

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@Jsmalls
1st off, you dont have to be condescending if someone doesnt agree with your theory.
I was not talking about the 30 cp, i was talking about the whole cp redesign with frontloaded passives, by "extra cp" i meant the leftover cp you will have cause anyone with a brain wont put more than 80cp in one star next patch,
Your theory is flawed, cause no one is gonna invest that much cp to counter 1 class, well, they will after so many sorcs will appear after the nerfs to all other classes. Sure, they can put 20 points and get 10% or whatever, but sorcs can get MUCH more defense with this change, due to them having 6 good defensive stars as opposed to 5 for every other class.
Thing is, bastion was supposed to be countered by shattering blows, but for sorcs inblbesting cp into bastion increases pretty much all their defense against every class, while investing cp into shattering blows for other classes is nowhere near as efficient.
Currently, only 3 strong cp stars work against sorcs (straight dmg, direct or dot dmg, shattering blows), but theres 5 that work against other classes.
And as for amberplasm, i just ised it as an example. The point was that sorc is the only magicka class that can turn excess stam into magicka and do it extremely efficiently, so they are the only class that can partially make up for the loss of magician by spending those points in mooncalf.
And cost reduction is just as important to other classes as it is to sorcs. In fact, it is even more important cause theyre all almost forced to run heavy to perform effectively.
I called it a conspiracy cause it just looks incredibly funny how youre trying to find a nerf to sorcs where there isnt one, almost looks like youre trying to find a defense against everyone who is agnry at zos leaving one of the already strongest classes untouched.

First off, yes there are several defensive trees, but unless I'm mistaken, they are all in the same tree.

As is most players have bastion at 40/50, to increase this we lose Hardy/Defender (which is also being nerfed)

So, CP allocation means no matter what you'll be taking more damage. (Giving up 10% from Hardy isn't worth the 3% gain in bastion as an example)

So bastion, allocation, will provide 20% less protection no matter how you divide it.

Then others can also put into shattering blows.

I got tagged, gonna check it out...

@Lexxypwns is there gonna be an increase above the 10 CPs? What does 10 CP equate to for max resources?

My thought process is simple. If you just log in, see the changes, drop your 10 new CP into bastion, you'll find it to be roughly 18% less than pre update.

Then other players could add to shattering blows.

Remember patch notes specifically mentioned, bastion at the 50 range (they know most players have it here) is 25% less effective.

Am I missing something?

Biro123

There is a very fine line where a shield isn't enough to stop a single attack, and its possible these changes push it close to that line. If it is crossed, shields stop being useful at all, the last light-armour weareing class will have to switch to heavy, and blocking/dodging with resto for heals.

Then every class will be the same... I guess that must be what you want..

Ultimate_Overlord

Its funny how sorcs get triggered way more than any other class when they are called overperforming. I have played this game for 3 yrs, played every class, consider magicka sorc to be one of the most fun ones. I have played it solo/small group quite a lot, different builds, cp, no cp, and i admit that its very strong, has been since 1.6, and is very easy to play compared to every other light and medium build and some of the heavy ones. If you are an experienced player, you cant possibly say sorc isnt easy or isnt incredibly strong without being biased.

Waffennacht

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Its funny how sorcs get triggered way more than any other class when they are called overperforming. I have played this game for 3 yrs, played every class, consider magicka sorc to be one of the most fun ones. I have played it solo/small group quite a lot, different builds, cp, no cp, and i admit that its very strong, has been since 1.6, and is very easy to play compared to every other light and medium build and some of the heavy ones. If you are an experienced player, you cant possibly say sorc isnt easy or isnt incredibly strong without being unbiased.

But that's not the topic at hand. We were just discussing the bastion champion tree.

Imo, dark conversion maybe the most powerful tool. As is, with this move I have the ability to stack pure stam regen and still never go OOM. (On my odd builds, just shows possibilities.) It's heal is super strong... etc...

I'm just sayin, they did reduce bastion

Ultimate_Overlord

Cp changes are good and all, but what about non cp shields? No one has yet said anything to prove that they have been balanced there (hint-they werent). And since zos is making bgs non cp, shattering blows speculation becomes even less relevant.

Ultimate_Overlord

@Waffennacht They didnt reduce bastion, they actually increased it in relativity to other defensive stars, same thing happened to shattering blows.

LordSlif

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Cp changes are good and all, but what about non cp shields? No one has yet said anything to prove that they have been balanced there (hint-they werent). And since zos is making bgs non cp, shattering blows speculation becomes even less relevant.

Yup shattering is useless

Waffennacht

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Cp changes are good and all, but what about non cp shields? No one has yet said anything to prove that they have been balanced there (hint-they werent). And since zos is making bgs non cp, shattering blows speculation becomes even less relevant.

Lmao. No one talks about no CP, because we can't get any damn practice! Azuras dead on console

Waffennacht

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@Waffennacht They didnt reduce bastion, they actually increased it in relativity to other defensive stars, same thing happened to shattering blows.

I re read the PTS and I had misread it.

I'm gonna be over here thinking before i post again

LordSlif

The cp nerf will affect all classes its a global nerf, but dks and templars lost major mending, vigor now costs +30%... but no one can touch on sorcs shield lol and sorcs have pirate skeleton lol

Waffennacht

LordSlif wrote: »

The cp nerf will affect all classes its a global nerf, but dks and templars lost major mending, vigor now costs +30%... but no one can touch on sorcs shield lol and sorcs have pirate skeleton lol

But what about NBs? Have we just written that class off completely now?

Poor NBs.

Sorcs are gonna be fotm, right after warden craze, but im gonna be running a templar for a while.

As for wards... yes, still contemplating

Lexxypwns

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@Jsmalls
1st off, you dont have to be condescending if someone doesnt agree with your theory.
I was not talking about the 30 cp, i was talking about the whole cp redesign with frontloaded passives, by "extra cp" i meant the leftover cp you will have cause anyone with a brain wont put more than 80cp in one star next patch,
Your theory is flawed, cause no one is gonna invest that much cp to counter 1 class, well, they will after so many sorcs will appear after the nerfs to all other classes. Sure, they can put 20 points and get 10% or whatever, but sorcs can get MUCH more defense with this change, due to them having 6 good defensive stars as opposed to 5 for every other class.
Thing is, bastion was supposed to be countered by shattering blows, but for sorcs inblbesting cp into bastion increases pretty much all their defense against every class, while investing cp into shattering blows for other classes is nowhere near as efficient.
Currently, only 3 strong cp stars work against sorcs (straight dmg, direct or dot dmg, shattering blows), but theres 5 that work against other classes.
And as for amberplasm, i just ised it as an example. The point was that sorc is the only magicka class that can turn excess stam into magicka and do it extremely efficiently, so they are the only class that can partially make up for the loss of magician by spending those points in mooncalf.
And cost reduction is just as important to other classes as it is to sorcs. In fact, it is even more important cause theyre all almost forced to run heavy to perform effectively.
I called it a conspiracy cause it just looks incredibly funny how youre trying to find a nerf to sorcs where there isnt one, almost looks like youre trying to find a defense against everyone who is agnry at zos leaving one of the already strongest classes untouched.

First off, yes there are several defensive trees, but unless I'm mistaken, they are all in the same tree.

As is most players have bastion at 40/50, to increase this we lose Hardy/Defender (which is also being nerfed)

So, CP allocation means no matter what you'll be taking more damage. (Giving up 10% from Hardy isn't worth the 3% gain in bastion as an example)

So bastion, allocation, will provide 20% less protection no matter how you divide it.

Then others can also put into shattering blows.

I got tagged, gonna check it out...

@Lexxypwns is there gonna be an increase above the 10 CPs? What does 10 CP equate to for max resources?

My thought process is simple. If you just log in, see the changes, drop your 10 new CP into bastion, you'll find it to be roughly 18% less than pre update.

Then other players could add to shattering blows.

Remember patch notes specifically mentioned, bastion at the 50 range (they know most players have it here) is 25% less effective.

Am I missing something?

40-50 in bastion is MUCH stronger now, CPs are front loaded.

Also, resource pools got a slight buff at 600 CP in this patch, meaning they were increased then increased again by CP, this is minor, however, stacking max resources just became the best way to go for virtually all builds despite ZoS trying to cause the exact opposite.

ATM, stacking max stats gives you more damage and a much larger pool to draw your resources from, as a result, sustain becomes easier. With the incoming meta, the meta for damage oriented builds will be 1 Sustain set(BR, bone pirate, amber, lich,seducer) 1 max stat set(draugr, 4 necro+willpower), and likely a damaging proc set. Its easier to sustain your resource pool when its 48k as opposed to 42k, that's 2 extra cooldowns, 2 seconds closer to a potion, a bigger window before you need to do something to regain resources.

Waffennacht

Lexxypwns wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

@Jsmalls
1st off, you dont have to be condescending if someone doesnt agree with your theory.
I was not talking about the 30 cp, i was talking about the whole cp redesign with frontloaded passives, by "extra cp" i meant the leftover cp you will have cause anyone with a brain wont put more than 80cp in one star next patch,
Your theory is flawed, cause no one is gonna invest that much cp to counter 1 class, well, they will after so many sorcs will appear after the nerfs to all other classes. Sure, they can put 20 points and get 10% or whatever, but sorcs can get MUCH more defense with this change, due to them having 6 good defensive stars as opposed to 5 for every other class.
Thing is, bastion was supposed to be countered by shattering blows, but for sorcs inblbesting cp into bastion increases pretty much all their defense against every class, while investing cp into shattering blows for other classes is nowhere near as efficient.
Currently, only 3 strong cp stars work against sorcs (straight dmg, direct or dot dmg, shattering blows), but theres 5 that work against other classes.
And as for amberplasm, i just ised it as an example. The point was that sorc is the only magicka class that can turn excess stam into magicka and do it extremely efficiently, so they are the only class that can partially make up for the loss of magician by spending those points in mooncalf.
And cost reduction is just as important to other classes as it is to sorcs. In fact, it is even more important cause theyre all almost forced to run heavy to perform effectively.
I called it a conspiracy cause it just looks incredibly funny how youre trying to find a nerf to sorcs where there isnt one, almost looks like youre trying to find a defense against everyone who is agnry at zos leaving one of the already strongest classes untouched.

First off, yes there are several defensive trees, but unless I'm mistaken, they are all in the same tree.

As is most players have bastion at 40/50, to increase this we lose Hardy/Defender (which is also being nerfed)

So, CP allocation means no matter what you'll be taking more damage. (Giving up 10% from Hardy isn't worth the 3% gain in bastion as an example)

So bastion, allocation, will provide 20% less protection no matter how you divide it.

Then others can also put into shattering blows.

I got tagged, gonna check it out...

@Lexxypwns is there gonna be an increase above the 10 CPs? What does 10 CP equate to for max resources?

My thought process is simple. If you just log in, see the changes, drop your 10 new CP into bastion, you'll find it to be roughly 18% less than pre update.

Then other players could add to shattering blows.

Remember patch notes specifically mentioned, bastion at the 50 range (they know most players have it here) is 25% less effective.

Am I missing something?

40-50 in bastion is MUCH stronger now, CPs are front loaded.

I had misread it, i read it backwards...

Please allow me to remove this foot from my mouth

LordSlif

Waffennacht wrote: »

LordSlif wrote: »

The cp nerf will affect all classes its a global nerf, but dks and templars lost major mending, vigor now costs +30%... but no one can touch on sorcs shield lol and sorcs have pirate skeleton lol

But what about NBs? Have we just written that class off completely now?

Poor NBs.

Sorcs are gonna be fotm, right after warden craze, but im gonna be running a templar for a while.

As for wards... yes, still contemplating

Nb are broken bro... look... cloak.

CatchMeTrolling

You get more out of the cp tree by putting less in them like most games with diminishing returns, leaving more options than before. So in regards to shields I don't get the fuss, the only classes that should be in uproar are dks and Templars, they took direct hits and indirect hits pretty hard.

Malamar1229

Funny I made a similar post about what Minalan stated on the PTS already before I saw this.

@Lexxypwns one issue on the PTS is I don't have access to all the sets I need to properly test stuff, so yeah there are limitations. But initially, I have not seen what you mentioned.

There's going to be substantial differences too between CP enabled and CP disabled environments.

Biro123

Waffennacht wrote: »

Ultimate_Overlord wrote: »

Cp changes are good and all, but what about non cp shields? No one has yet said anything to prove that they have been balanced there (hint-they werent). And since zos is making bgs non cp, shattering blows speculation becomes even less relevant.

Lmao. No one talks about no CP, because we can't get any damn practice! Azuras dead on console

From my brief stint on Azura, I thought shields were really weak. Loss of bastion and a big drop in Max magica made for very small shields..
I mean yes, people didn't hit them as hard, but siege ripped right through them.