What do you think is needed in order to make medium, and light armor competitive again?

NBrookus

One glaring weakness it has is that there's no magicka version of Shuffle

Due to it's duration, Shuffle is somewhat accessible to magicka builds. Immovable, however, only makes you immovable for 5 seconds. You'd shut down magicka tanks almost entirely unless Immovable got a magicka morph.

Kay1

Medium: + 4200 Physical Penetration
Light: + 12% Spell Damage

But I would still say nothing.

With the changes coming with Morrowind Heavy Armor will be nerfed to the ground and any expert in PvP knows it, without the reduce cost CP Heavy Armor is trash that's why you didn't see a single Heavy Armor user with the double ap event.

What needs to be done to balance things up for Medium and Light users, because what hurts the most those 2 different armors are the current meta.

Permablocking needs to be nerfed, only for PvP by increasing the cost of blocking in PvP by maybe 35%.

Reduce the healing from instant burst heals like Rally, Breath of Life, ect... so you will reward people that actually uses more skills instead of pressing one button and get 10k health back.

Reduce the damage from siege weapons, I 1 shotted 3 light armor templars few days ago with 1 stone trebuchet.

Dk_needs_a_buff

Damage reduction on heavy gear. That way less people would use it. The danage reduction should be huge. That way only tanks could use heavy gear. Not dps

Ragnaroek93

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

What if they made it so that if a move isn't dodge-able you take partial damage (~50% less damage) rather than the full amount? It still connects, and if there's a CC component or a negative effect in general it still applies. Do you think that would balance out medium armor?

So far it seems like LA doesn't need to be addressed, and it's mainly MA that needs help. Am I incorrect?

That would be ok for me, as long as Soul Strike actually gets reworked, that skill hits just way to hard even with 50% damage reduction.
The main issue remains in my opinion, that dodgeroll is just too expensive for what it actually does. It's hard to justify, that already my first dodgeroll (in 5 medium) is almost as expensive as Dampen Magicka. How many people do actually need to attack me at the same time to make my dodgeroll avoiding as much damage as one Dampen Magicka does with Shuffle and Skeleton active?

Valencer

Only class that can make medium work particularly well is stamblade because they can basically make themselves really hard to hit.

For every other stamina class medium is high risk normal reward whereas heavy is low risk same reward. Roll dodge is much weaker than block/healing right now.

Removal of cost reduction CP won't change a thing since both medium and heavy lose 16% cost reduction

Derra

I think personally - when only looking at stamina comparing medium armor to heavy there is not enough focus on heavy armor sets:
Fury, Seventh Legion, Veiled Heritance, Truth and ravager are in my opinion more appealing than basically anything medium armor sets have to offer (with the debateable exception of bone pirate).

They´re also way better than most magica focused heavy sets aswell - but thats a different topic.

Strider_Roshin

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

What if they made it so that if a move isn't dodge-able you take partial damage (~50% less damage) rather than the full amount? It still connects, and if there's a CC component or a negative effect in general it still applies. Do you think that would balance out medium armor?

So far it seems like LA doesn't need to be addressed, and it's mainly MA that needs help. Am I incorrect?

That would be ok for me, as long as Soul Strike actually gets reworked, that skill hits just way to hard even with 50% damage reduction.
The main issue remains in my opinion, that dodgeroll is just too expensive for what it actually does. It's hard to justify, that already my first dodgeroll (in 5 medium) is almost as expensive as Dampen Magicka. How many people do actually need to attack me at the same time to make my dodgeroll avoiding as much damage as one Dampen Magicka does with Shuffle and Skeleton active?

Soul Assault needs to be interruptible after 2 seconds. Nightblades shouldn't be the only class able to defend themselves against that ultimate.

Valencer

Derra wrote: »

I think personally - when only looking at stamina comparing medium armor to heavy there is not enough focus on heavy armor sets:
Fury, Seventh Legion, Veiled Heritance, Truth and ravager are in my opinion more appealing than basically anything medium armor sets have to offer (with the debateable exception of bone pirate).

They´re also way better than most magica focused heavy sets aswell - but thats a different topic.

That's definitely true, but before most of those sets saw any widespread use or were even added to the game heavy armour was already in a comfortable top spot. Pretty sure seventh legion, veiled heritance and truth werent options before One Tamriel, and ravager and fury werent being used as much (yet).

SodanTok

Kay1 wrote: »

Medium: + 4200 Physical Penetration
Light: + 12% Spell Damage

But I would still say nothing.

With the changes coming with Morrowind Heavy Armor will be nerfed to the ground and any expert in PvP knows it, without the reduce cost CP Heavy Armor is trash that's why you didn't see a single Heavy Armor user with the double ap event.

What needs to be done to balance things up for Medium and Light users, because what hurts the most those 2 different armors are the current meta.

Permablocking needs to be nerfed, only for PvP by increasing the cost of blocking in PvP by maybe 35%.

Reduce the healing from instant burst heals like Rally, Breath of Life, ect... so you will reward people that actually uses more skills instead of pressing one button and get 10k health back.

Reduce the damage from siege weapons, I 1 shotted 3 light armor templars few days ago with 1 stone trebuchet.

They do? The fixed values of constitution passive are even better in noCP, so many people on Azura use heavy and I bet you would find many "experts in PVP" that would actually disagree with your statement. Thats speaking in general. Stamsorcs in heavy on no CP are even better.

Minno

Joy_Division wrote: »

The problem with light armor is you are dead wearing it if multiple people attack you unless you have the mobility to kite/evade them.

It's not so much the resistance. It's running out of stamina and in general being unable to dodge or block.

Unless major reforms accompany it, I am never wearing it again unless I have a raid of healers who will enusre I am not constantly pressing E to rez at wayshrine.

I'm currently exploring this to make sure there aren't​ build options we are missing. But ultimately it's still as you say; stamina for dodge/block favors stamina builds since max Stam gives them more dmg where for us its only for defense with a high cost.

Derra

Valencer wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

I think personally - when only looking at stamina comparing medium armor to heavy there is not enough focus on heavy armor sets:
Fury, Seventh Legion, Veiled Heritance, Truth and ravager are in my opinion more appealing than basically anything medium armor sets have to offer (with the debateable exception of bone pirate).

They´re also way better than most magica focused heavy sets aswell - but thats a different topic.

That's definitely true, but before most of those sets saw any widespread use or were even added to the game heavy armour was already in a comfortable top spot. Pretty sure seventh legion, veiled heritance and truth werent options before One Tamriel, and ravager and fury werent being used as much (yet).

It´s also the wrath passive and back in the days was the ability to combine great sustain (blackrose - which was nerfed in two ways for stamina) with two proccsets since shadows of the hist.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

As one of the foremost users of every beam available in this game, it HAS TO be this way. When you're on my side of the fence, a Magic Templar's only viable option when facing someone who just goes dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge is either a heavy staff attack, Radiant or Soul Assault. You can dodge literally everything else in our arsenal.

Yes, I know it's annoying to you, but the opposite, how it was about 9 months ago, is completely build breaking for any offensive Magplar.

Strider_Roshin

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

As one of the foremost users of every beam available in this game, it HAS TO be this way. When you're on my side of the fence, a Magic Templar's only viable option when facing someone who just goes dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge is either a heavy staff attack, Radiant or Soul Assault. You can dodge literally everything else in our arsenal.

Yes, I know it's annoying to you, but the opposite, how it was about 9 months ago, is completely build breaking for any offensive Magplar.

Your class spammable is undodgeable. If there's one class that has zero room to complain; it's Templars.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

What if they made it so that if a move isn't dodge-able you take partial damage (~50% less damage) rather than the full amount? It still connects, and if there's a CC component or a negative effect in general it still applies. Do you think that would balance out medium armor?

So far it seems like LA doesn't need to be addressed, and it's mainly MA that needs help. Am I incorrect?

That would be ok for me, as long as Soul Strike actually gets reworked, that skill hits just way to hard even with 50% damage reduction.
The main issue remains in my opinion, that dodgeroll is just too expensive for what it actually does. It's hard to justify, that already my first dodgeroll (in 5 medium) is almost as expensive as Dampen Magicka. How many people do actually need to attack me at the same time to make my dodgeroll avoiding as much damage as one Dampen Magicka does with Shuffle and Skeleton active?

Soul Assault needs to be interruptible after 2 seconds. Nightblades shouldn't be the only class able to defend themselves against that ultimate.

50% of the people in Cyrodiil know how to survive a Soul Assault quite easily. I only equip it because it allows me to burn down the fodder quickly so I can focus on the good players. If you are having trouble with Soul Assault it's not the game's fault.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

As one of the foremost users of every beam available in this game, it HAS TO be this way. When you're on my side of the fence, a Magic Templar's only viable option when facing someone who just goes dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge is either a heavy staff attack, Radiant or Soul Assault. You can dodge literally everything else in our arsenal.

Yes, I know it's annoying to you, but the opposite, how it was about 9 months ago, is completely build breaking for any offensive Magplar.

Your class spammable is undodgeable. If there's one class that has zero room to complain; it's Templars.

What? Are you referring to javelin? That can be dodged. So can dark flare. Even the triple fireball that no one past Champion Point 1 uses can be dodged. The only things we have that can't be dodged is Radiant and whatever we pick up from other skill lines.

Until you have thrown, and missed, 5 consecutive javelins you have no idea how annoying dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge really is.

KingJ

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

As one of the foremost users of every beam available in this game, it HAS TO be this way. When you're on my side of the fence, a Magic Templar's only viable option when facing someone who just goes dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge is either a heavy staff attack, Radiant or Soul Assault. You can dodge literally everything else in our arsenal.

Yes, I know it's annoying to you, but the opposite, how it was about 9 months ago, is completely build breaking for any offensive Magplar.

Your class spammable is undodgeable. If there's one class that has zero room to complain; it's Templars.

What? Are you referring to javelin? That can be dodged. So can dark flare. Even the triple fireball that no one past Champion Point 1 uses can be dodged. The only things we have that can't be dodged is Radiant and whatever we pick up from other skill lines.

Until you have thrown, and missed, 5 consecutive javelins you have no idea how annoying dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge really is.

@THEDKEXPERIENCE sweeps are undodgeable.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

As one of the foremost users of every beam available in this game, it HAS TO be this way. When you're on my side of the fence, a Magic Templar's only viable option when facing someone who just goes dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge is either a heavy staff attack, Radiant or Soul Assault. You can dodge literally everything else in our arsenal.

Yes, I know it's annoying to you, but the opposite, how it was about 9 months ago, is completely build breaking for any offensive Magplar.

Your class spammable is undodgeable. If there's one class that has zero room to complain; it's Templars.

What? Are you referring to javelin? That can be dodged. So can dark flare. Even the triple fireball that no one past Champion Point 1 uses can be dodged. The only things we have that can't be dodged is Radiant and whatever we pick up from other skill lines.

Until you have thrown, and missed, 5 consecutive javelins you have no idea how annoying dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge really is.

Sweeps is undodgable. For ranged builds, RD is a must to remain undodgable in order to provide consistent anti-dodge roll dmg across builds. Also explosive charge is undodgable due to it being an AOE attack.

TheBonesXXX

I don't like seeing things nerfed, with that mentality;

I play a melee-mage Mageblade.. to me, when I cross analyze the bonuses light get in their set pieces vs medium and heavy is that the set pieces are aren't lame, compared to Light.

My solutions are as follows, give Light and Medium improved attack speed and movement speed variances, let them complete animations faster and attack faster than heavy users.

With the removal of decrease costs, putting the retired Weight trait and move speed bonuses into the armor sets would allow more mobility and dps into both armors.

It would give both the needed edge against Heavy.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

As one of the foremost users of every beam available in this game, it HAS TO be this way. When you're on my side of the fence, a Magic Templar's only viable option when facing someone who just goes dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge is either a heavy staff attack, Radiant or Soul Assault. You can dodge literally everything else in our arsenal.

Yes, I know it's annoying to you, but the opposite, how it was about 9 months ago, is completely build breaking for any offensive Magplar.

Your class spammable is undodgeable. If there's one class that has zero room to complain; it's Templars.

What? Are you referring to javelin? That can be dodged. So can dark flare. Even the triple fireball that no one past Champion Point 1 uses can be dodged. The only things we have that can't be dodged is Radiant and whatever we pick up from other skill lines.

Until you have thrown, and missed, 5 consecutive javelins you have no idea how annoying dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge really is.

Sweeps is undodgable. For ranged builds, RD is a must to remain undodgable in order to provide consistent anti-dodge roll dmg across builds. Also explosive charge is undodgable due to it being an AOE attack.

Ahhhh ... yes ... pokey sticks. Sorry, I should have said ranged ability.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

As one of the foremost users of every beam available in this game, it HAS TO be this way. When you're on my side of the fence, a Magic Templar's only viable option when facing someone who just goes dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge is either a heavy staff attack, Radiant or Soul Assault. You can dodge literally everything else in our arsenal.

Yes, I know it's annoying to you, but the opposite, how it was about 9 months ago, is completely build breaking for any offensive Magplar.

Your class spammable is undodgeable. If there's one class that has zero room to complain; it's Templars.

What? Are you referring to javelin? That can be dodged. So can dark flare. Even the triple fireball that no one past Champion Point 1 uses can be dodged. The only things we have that can't be dodged is Radiant and whatever we pick up from other skill lines.

Until you have thrown, and missed, 5 consecutive javelins you have no idea how annoying dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge-dodge really is.

Sweeps is undodgable. For ranged builds, RD is a must to remain undodgable in order to provide consistent anti-dodge roll dmg across builds. Also explosive charge is undodgable due to it being an AOE attack.

Ahhhh ... yes ... pokey sticks. Sorry, I should have said ranged ability.

Unstable core I believe is another Ranged ability that's undodgable. Sadly not spamable like sweeps and I don't remember if the final dmg can be dodged.

Destro impulse has a ranged AOE that might go through dodge. Could be worth using if everyone you face is rolling around saying your magicka.

Sadly for range, templar has great single target abilities, but easily countered by dodge. You have to pull other options to help .

SodanTok

The thing is. While dodge rolling overperforms when attackers have no undodgeable damage source. It severely underperforms when they have many.

As a player that is both dodgeroller and with ranged only single target attacks (= all dodgeable, often with warning like snipe) BOTH are just terrible experience. And unless they finally change something, they will just push the middle to left or right making it overperform or underperform more and more often.

utb99

LA and MA should prioritize damage so LA should give a spell damage bonus and medium should give a penetration bonus.

Strider_Roshin

utb99 wrote: »

LA and MA should prioritize damage so LA should give a spell damage bonus and medium should give a penetration bonus.

I wouldn't mind that. In order to prevent redundancy how about we give LA a 6% increase in spell damage, and medium armor 2442 armor penetration?

KingJ

utb99 wrote: »

LA and MA should prioritize damage so LA should give a spell damage bonus and medium should give a penetration bonus.

Even that wouldn't stop me from using heavy in pvp.

Strider_Roshin

KingJ wrote: »

utb99 wrote: »

LA and MA should prioritize damage so LA should give a spell damage bonus and medium should give a penetration bonus.

Even that wouldn't stop me from using heavy in pvp.

If they were to make this change it would help bridge the gap would it not? I still think "dodge" rolling needs reworked in order to avoid neutering MA's main defense mechanism.

KingJ

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

utb99 wrote: »

LA and MA should prioritize damage so LA should give a spell damage bonus and medium should give a penetration bonus.

Even that wouldn't stop me from using heavy in pvp.

If they were to make this change it would help bridge the gap would it not? I still think "dodge" rolling needs reworked in order to avoid neutering MA's main defense mechanism.

This right here is the reason why I wouldn't switch from heavy back to medium.If they keep making abilities undodgeable why run medium?

SodanTok

KingJ wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

KingJ wrote: »

utb99 wrote: »

LA and MA should prioritize damage so LA should give a spell damage bonus and medium should give a penetration bonus.

Even that wouldn't stop me from using heavy in pvp.

If they were to make this change it would help bridge the gap would it not? I still think "dodge" rolling needs reworked in order to avoid neutering MA's main defense mechanism.

This right here is the reason why I wouldn't switch from heavy back to medium.If they keep making abilities undodgeable why run medium?

So you can stop your 7medium build characters, hold block for 2 sec. Lose 4-6k stamina. Get selfsnared to crawl and still receive 50% of the damage that had penetration at least 40% of your armor.

Joy_Division

Kay1 wrote: »

Medium: + 4200 Physical Penetration
Light: + 12% Spell Damage

But I would still say nothing.

With the changes coming with Morrowind Heavy Armor will be nerfed to the ground and any expert in PvP knows it, without the reduce cost CP Heavy Armor is trash that's why you didn't see a single Heavy Armor user with the double ap event.

What needs to be done to balance things up for Medium and Light users, because what hurts the most those 2 different armors are the current meta.

Permablocking needs to be nerfed, only for PvP by increasing the cost of blocking in PvP by maybe 35%.

Reduce the healing from instant burst heals like Rally, Breath of Life, ect... so you will reward people that actually uses more skills instead of pressing one button and get 10k health back.

Reduce the damage from siege weapons, I 1 shotted 3 light armor templars few days ago with 1 stone trebuchet.

As a non-expert PvP player, I would say the following.

When Morrowind comes out, I most likely still will be wearing heavy armor. Much of my sustain comes independent of the CP system. I hate to burst the bubble of all of those people who hate heavy armor tanks, but the good ones, i.e. the ones that prompt people to come on these forums and whine to ZOS, are going to do fine next patch if all ZoS does is remove CP from battlegrounds and get rid of the cost reduction CP star. Until I see substantive changes that doesn't make wearing light armor defenseless aside from shield spamming, I will not be wearing it. But we have no idea what ZoS will do with any of the armor.

During the double AP event, I wore the same setup and did just fine.

You want to increase the block cost in PvP by 35%? You ever try blocking in light armor in Azura Star? I can most assure you that is not that way to make Light Armor more appealing.

But what do I know? I'm not an expert and I lack the clairvoyance to know that changes ZoS is making in the next patch.

TheBonesXXX

Joy_Division wrote: »

Kay1 wrote: »

Medium: + 4200 Physical Penetration
Light: + 12% Spell Damage

But I would still say nothing.

With the changes coming with Morrowind Heavy Armor will be nerfed to the ground and any expert in PvP knows it, without the reduce cost CP Heavy Armor is trash that's why you didn't see a single Heavy Armor user with the double ap event.

What needs to be done to balance things up for Medium and Light users, because what hurts the most those 2 different armors are the current meta.

Permablocking needs to be nerfed, only for PvP by increasing the cost of blocking in PvP by maybe 35%.

Reduce the healing from instant burst heals like Rally, Breath of Life, ect... so you will reward people that actually uses more skills instead of pressing one button and get 10k health back.

Reduce the damage from siege weapons, I 1 shotted 3 light armor templars few days ago with 1 stone trebuchet.

As a non-expert PvP player, I would say the following.

When Morrowind comes out, I most likely still will be wearing heavy armor. Much of my sustain comes independent of the CP system. I hate to burst the bubble of all of those people who hate heavy armor tanks, but the good ones, i.e. the ones that prompt people to come on these forums and whine to ZOS, are going to do fine next patch if all ZoS does is remove CP from battlegrounds and get rid of the cost reduction CP star. Until I see substantive changes that doesn't make wearing light armor AP defenseless aside from shield spamming, I will not be wearing it. But we have no idea what ZoS will do with any of the armor.

During the double AP event, I wore the same setup and did just fine.

You want to increase the block cost in PvP by 35%? You ever try blocking in light armor in Azura Star? I can most assure you that is not that way to make Light Armor more appealing.

But what do I know? I'm not an expert and I lack the clairvoyance to know that changes ZoS is making in the next patch.

^

Heavy Armor aint goin away anytime soon. Anyone whos worth a *** is gonna still use heavy armor.

H4RDFOX

I think the armor skill lines and passives should be streamlined to their respective resources. HA is granting damage when it shouldn't. If you are HA then you should be resist focused and health regen based, if you are LA then you should be spell damage focused with spell penetration, and if you are MA then you should be weapon damage focused with agility passives.