What do you think is needed in order to make medium, and light armor competitive again?

Strider_Roshin

Heavy seems to be the go to with many builds nowadays since the benefits greatly outweigh the disadvantages. What do you think needs to be changed to medium, and light armor?

Medium Armor

With so much being undodgeable, medium armor is becoming more like a punching bag. If ZOS isn't going to make more abilities more dodge-able then it needs to be more innately defensive. A suggestion that I've heard that I thought was great is to make each piece of medium armor grant you 150 crit resistance. This was you could spec more into reinforced, well-fitted, nirnhoned, sturdy, etc.

Light armor

Light armor is all around in great shape with damage shields, and penetration. One glaring weakness it has is that there's no magicka version of Shuffle; therefore I think each piece of armor should reduce the duration of snares, and roots by x%

These were some great ideas Derra came up with that I felt needed sharing.

Minno

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

Heavy seems to be the go to with many builds nowadays since the benefits greatly outweigh the disadvantages. What do you think needs to be changed to medium, and light armor?

Medium Armor

With so much being undodgeable, medium armor is becoming more like a punching bag. If ZOS isn't going to make more abilities more dodge-able then it needs to be more innately defensive. A suggestion that I've heard that I thought was great is to make each piece of medium armor grant you 150 crit resistance. This was you could spec more into reinforced, well-fitted, nirnhoned, sturdy, etc.

Light armor

Light armor is all around in great shape with damage shields, and penetration. One glaring weakness it has is that there's no magicka version of Shuffle; therefore I think each piece of armor should reduce the duration of snares, and roots by x%

These were some great ideas Derra came up with that I felt needed sharing.

It comes down to what you give up to gain those bonuses.

MA with shuffle shuts down a large selection of skills, despite the increased non-dodged abilities. I think the issue is expecting well fitted traits to go further/BIS when players should explore other options. MA should be able to build for crit resistd/armor, but at cost of dmg/run speed or dodge roll cost. For balance, add a CP star that increases a chance for your attacks to ignore dodge chance (match CP Shield star)

LA is currently in a decent spot, when using dampen magicka. La requires a shield to be at its most effective. Though shield breaker should be removed/changed (it's introduction was very inflammatory. Maybe change it to increase dmg on shields similar to the CP star?). I don't think LA should get a Dodge chance, but you should be able to try to build for it at sacrifice of dmg/shield size.

HA should have the best resists+ health pool. But at its pure Passives, you should not have any dmg. In order to gain dmg you should have to sacrifice regen/healing received or health/resists. Maybe give resource pools a max cap and remove the cap on resists while using heavy? Need to bring the HA skill into the fold similar to dampen and shuffle. Give us a reason to slot it and give it a flavor to augment our armor choices.

Just my thoughts.

Minno

Edit: double post

SodanTok

Most a foremost, medium needs to make sense. If you look at passives 1/3 of them doesnt work with second 1/2 and second 1/3 with third 1/3...


For a supposed high regen builds, a lot of things they do is shutting it down - sprinting, sneaking, blocking...

Then there is sneaking cost, that everybody has at 40% with Legerdemain. Yes medium gets 48% on top of it, but it is useless in PVE, it is useless in PVP unless you gank a lot or are scared of other players during your voyage from AD gate to Bruma. There is CP that can do it too. Make gankers use it if they care about stealth cost.

If ZoS start adding more and more undodgeable skills (like cliff racer) they need to start giving medium armor some defense to them that doesnt kill all their regen. Each block cost like 4-6k stamina (1-2 times killed stam regen and one instance of blocked damage).
Either by making block gradually increase stam reduction up to 100% the longer you old it, or by giving dodge roll some sort of block mechanic (during dodge roll, block x% of every undodgeable damage), or by increasing healing gained.

And dont get me started how everything is % based, so if you dont have any stam regen set pieces your regen is barely bigger than of that dude in heavy armor with his constitution. Same goes for weapon damage.

//EDIT:
Forgot the stealth detection radius. I guess thats useful if people move next to you. And if you move in stealth with something that isnt khajiit/bosmer (why tho)

THEDKEXPERIENCE

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

Minno

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Most a foremost, medium needs to make sense. If you look at passives 1/3 of them doesnt work with second 1/2 and second 1/3 with third 1/3...


For a supposed high regen builds, a lot of things they do is shutting it down - sprinting, sneaking, blocking...

Then there is sneaking cost, that everybody has at 40% with Legerdemain. Yes medium gets 48% on top of it, but it is useless in PVE, it is useless in PVP unless you gank a lot or are scared of other players during your voyage from AD gate to Bruma. There is CP that can do it too. Make gankers use it if they care about stealth cost.

If ZoS start adding more and more undodgeable skills (like cliff racer) they need to start giving medium armor some defense to them that doesnt kill all their regen. Each block cost like 4-6k stamina (1-2 times killed stam regen and one instance of blocked damage).
Either by making block gradually increase stam reduction up to 100% the longer you old it, or by giving dodge roll some sort of block mechanic (during dodge roll, block x% of every undodgeable damage), or by increasing healing gained.

And dont get me started how everything is % based, so if you dont have any stam regen set pieces your regen is barely bigger than of that dude in heavy armor with his constitution. Same goes for weapon damage.

//EDIT:
Forgot the stealth detection radius. I guess thats useful if people move next to you. And if you move in stealth with something that isnt khajiit/bosmer (why tho)

Yea the % based stats are an issue, but that's more or less a problem with how they coded the game versus math for your build. A percent of any high value will be better than at lower values (same logic applies to store sales. 20% off a t-shirt that's 15 bucks is 3 dollars off the ticket price. But using the 10 dollar off coupon means you reduced the cost by 66% whereas the percentage only saved you 3 total dollars.)

Strider_Roshin

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's not a bad idea. Heavy armor gives +2% max health per piece. How about making light armor give +10% magicka when wearing 5 pieces, and medium give +10% stamina when wearing 5 medium. That'll give LA, and MA a nice damage buff IMO.

SodanTok

Minno wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Most a foremost, medium needs to make sense. If you look at passives 1/3 of them doesnt work with second 1/2 and second 1/3 with third 1/3...


For a supposed high regen builds, a lot of things they do is shutting it down - sprinting, sneaking, blocking...

Then there is sneaking cost, that everybody has at 40% with Legerdemain. Yes medium gets 48% on top of it, but it is useless in PVE, it is useless in PVP unless you gank a lot or are scared of other players during your voyage from AD gate to Bruma. There is CP that can do it too. Make gankers use it if they care about stealth cost.

If ZoS start adding more and more undodgeable skills (like cliff racer) they need to start giving medium armor some defense to them that doesnt kill all their regen. Each block cost like 4-6k stamina (1-2 times killed stam regen and one instance of blocked damage).
Either by making block gradually increase stam reduction up to 100% the longer you old it, or by giving dodge roll some sort of block mechanic (during dodge roll, block x% of every undodgeable damage), or by increasing healing gained.

And dont get me started how everything is % based, so if you dont have any stam regen set pieces your regen is barely bigger than of that dude in heavy armor with his constitution. Same goes for weapon damage.

//EDIT:
Forgot the stealth detection radius. I guess thats useful if people move next to you. And if you move in stealth with something that isnt khajiit/bosmer (why tho)

Yea the % based stats are an issue, but that's more or less a problem with how they coded the game versus math for your build. A percent of any high value will be better than at lower values (same logic applies to store sales. 20% off a t-shirt that's 15 bucks is 3 dollars off the ticket price. But using the 10 dollar off coupon means you reduced the cost by 66% whereas the percentage only saved you 3 total dollars.)

Yeah, but then they went on and added "raw" stam sustain to heavy armor and raw penetration to light. And then decided everything should just block regen, but not the raw one. And then decided crit or penetration should be best damage increase. And suddenly medium armor in pve is good mostly for its crit chance bonus. And regen isnt important at all (times may change) and some people in PvP should have uncrittable shields and the rest should mitigate half of crit damage anyway... and we arrived at current medium. Good only for dodgeroll, thats gets nerfed patch after patch.

Strider_Roshin

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Most a foremost, medium needs to make sense. If you look at passives 1/3 of them doesnt work with second 1/2 and second 1/3 with third 1/3...


For a supposed high regen builds, a lot of things they do is shutting it down - sprinting, sneaking, blocking...

Then there is sneaking cost, that everybody has at 40% with Legerdemain. Yes medium gets 48% on top of it, but it is useless in PVE, it is useless in PVP unless you gank a lot or are scared of other players during your voyage from AD gate to Bruma. There is CP that can do it too. Make gankers use it if they care about stealth cost.

If ZoS start adding more and more undodgeable skills (like cliff racer) they need to start giving medium armor some defense to them that doesnt kill all their regen. Each block cost like 4-6k stamina (1-2 times killed stam regen and one instance of blocked damage).
Either by making block gradually increase stam reduction up to 100% the longer you old it, or by giving dodge roll some sort of block mechanic (during dodge roll, block x% of every undodgeable damage), or by increasing healing gained.

And dont get me started how everything is % based, so if you dont have any stam regen set pieces your regen is barely bigger than of that dude in heavy armor with his constitution. Same goes for weapon damage.

//EDIT:
Forgot the stealth detection radius. I guess thats useful if people move next to you. And if you move in stealth with something that isnt khajiit/bosmer (why tho)

Yea the % based stats are an issue, but that's more or less a problem with how they coded the game versus math for your build. A percent of any high value will be better than at lower values (same logic applies to store sales. 20% off a t-shirt that's 15 bucks is 3 dollars off the ticket price. But using the 10 dollar off coupon means you reduced the cost by 66% whereas the percentage only saved you 3 total dollars.)

Yeah, but then they went on and added "raw" stam sustain to heavy armor and raw penetration to light. And then decided everything should just block regen, but not the raw one. And then decided crit or penetration should be best damage increase. And suddenly medium armor in pve is good mostly for its crit chance bonus. And regen isnt important at all (times may change) and some people in PvP should have uncrittable shields and the rest should mitigate half of crit damage anyway... and we arrived at current medium. Good only for dodgeroll, thats gets nerfed patch after patch.

At this point we should just call it Rolling*

*Dodges some moves.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

Maybe not 20% but adding more Max pool could be incentive.

Though they do give medium armor additional WD already. Ultimately people slot HA to escape dying too quickly. We need to give players across all armor lines the ability to defend themselves, but at a sacrifice to dmg. And vice versa for HA, give the ability to do dmg but at cost to survivability.

If we can balance the armor lines within 2-5% of each other in terms of effectiveness, it comes down to personal playstyle choice with the ability to stack either dmg or survivability and never both.

Father_X_Zombie

Make people have to use the skill line armor ability if they are wearing 5pc of that armor type. For example: you have to be using 5 pieces of medium armor to use shuffle, and 5 pieces of light armor to use annulment.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

Maybe not 20% but adding more Max pool could be incentive.

Though they do give medium armor additional WD already. Ultimately people slot HA to escape dying too quickly. We need to give players across all armor lines the ability to defend themselves, but at a sacrifice to dmg. And vice versa for HA, give the ability to do dmg but at cost to survivability.

If we can balance the armor lines within 2-5% of each other in terms of effectiveness, it comes down to personal playstyle choice with the ability to stack either dmg or survivability and never both.

Here is why I suggested a massive 20% gain. If you've been playing this game long enough you will have come across this guy.

"Dude, my toon now has 4765 weapon damage! I'll be unstoppable!"

Dead 30 seconds later.

Followed by an angry forum posts about newbs who need to learn to play without using cheese.

Meanwhile, the heavy armor guy with 3000 weapon damage or spell power won the fight and is still fighting 45 minutes later having killed 10 times the people as the weapon damage guy.

If light and medium are too be buffed, and as a heavy user THEY DO NEED TO BE BUFFED, it cannot simply be by adding more armor. Cloth and leather are not as good as steel, so that solution is out due to stupidity. But ... if there is something that can be done where light and medium armor gets some absurd bonus to make people more ok with having to play horse riding simulator 2k17 then they should. In my view the only thing that makes enough sense would be to give a resource boost bordering on insane.

Using my own Magplar, I currently have 49k magic in 5 heavy armor. After my Templar circle is casted I sit around 30k in each resistance. But ... if by switching to light armor maybe I could deal with 15k resists in exchange for an additional almost 10k magic, which would be 20% for me.

So I ask you ... would you rather have 59k magic and 15k resists or 49k and 30k? If the answer isn't "definitely the first one" then the buff still isn't strong enough.

WhiteMage

If people spread out more (a lot more) such that there were less than 15 players (over all sides) in any given encounter, they wouldn't even need heavy armor to survive. At the present, light armor needs to use skills as part of its defense: an active defense. Heavy armor utilizes passive defense to a much larger degree which is very helpful when fighting very many players; it scales better than active defenses because skilled players could draw way too much power out of their active defenses if they scaled with the number of opponents fought.

Just fight fewer people (at the present) if you want to be viable in these two armor types. It's not the be all end all solution, ofc.

As for necessary balance changes, well... I'm not going to get into those just now.

Minno

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

Maybe not 20% but adding more Max pool could be incentive.

Though they do give medium armor additional WD already. Ultimately people slot HA to escape dying too quickly. We need to give players across all armor lines the ability to defend themselves, but at a sacrifice to dmg. And vice versa for HA, give the ability to do dmg but at cost to survivability.

If we can balance the armor lines within 2-5% of each other in terms of effectiveness, it comes down to personal playstyle choice with the ability to stack either dmg or survivability and never both.

Here is why I suggested a massive 20% gain. If you've been playing this game long enough you will have come across this guy.

"Dude, my toon now has 4765 weapon damage! I'll be unstoppable!"

Dead 30 seconds later.

Followed by an angry forum posts about newbs who need to learn to play without using cheese.

Meanwhile, the heavy armor guy with 3000 weapon damage or spell power won the fight and is still fighting 45 minutes later having killed 10 times the people as the weapon damage guy.

If light and medium are too be buffed, and as a heavy user THEY DO NEED TO BE BUFFED, it cannot simply be by adding more armor. Cloth and leather are not as good as steel, so that solution is out due to stupidity. But ... if there is something that can be done where light and medium armor gets some absurd bonus to make people more ok with having to play horse riding simulator 2k17 then they should. In my view the only thing that makes enough sense would be to give a resource boost bordering on insane.

Using my own Magplar, I currently have 49k magic in 5 heavy armor. After my Templar circle is casted I sit around 30k in each resistance. But ... if by switching to light armor maybe I could deal with 15k resists in exchange for an additional almost 10k magic, which would be 20% for me.

So I ask you ... would you rather have 59k magic and 15k resists or 49k and 30k? If the answer isn't "definitely the first one" then the buff still isn't strong enough.

You really shouldn't be able to get 49k mag/stam in HA with 30k resists buffed is my argument. Pick one, deal with subpart of the other. Or build more balanced where you can compete or where hybrid builds can play.

It's about that diversity, not "all eggs in one basket".

Hankrabbit

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Make people have to use the skill line armor ability if they are wearing 5pc of that armor type. For example: you have to be using 5 pieces of medium armor to use shuffle, and 5 pieces of light armor to use annulment.

genius

Minno

Father_X_Zombie wrote: »

Make people have to use the skill line armor ability if they are wearing 5pc of that armor type. For example: you have to be using 5 pieces of medium armor to use shuffle, and 5 pieces of light armor to use annulment.

I'd agree, though I do want hybrid builds to use these skills, especially with harness mag giving back mag and shuffle helping builds to ignore many direct attacks.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

Maybe not 20% but adding more Max pool could be incentive.

Though they do give medium armor additional WD already. Ultimately people slot HA to escape dying too quickly. We need to give players across all armor lines the ability to defend themselves, but at a sacrifice to dmg. And vice versa for HA, give the ability to do dmg but at cost to survivability.

If we can balance the armor lines within 2-5% of each other in terms of effectiveness, it comes down to personal playstyle choice with the ability to stack either dmg or survivability and never both.

Here is why I suggested a massive 20% gain. If you've been playing this game long enough you will have come across this guy.

"Dude, my toon now has 4765 weapon damage! I'll be unstoppable!"

Dead 30 seconds later.

Followed by an angry forum posts about newbs who need to learn to play without using cheese.

Meanwhile, the heavy armor guy with 3000 weapon damage or spell power won the fight and is still fighting 45 minutes later having killed 10 times the people as the weapon damage guy.

If light and medium are too be buffed, and as a heavy user THEY DO NEED TO BE BUFFED, it cannot simply be by adding more armor. Cloth and leather are not as good as steel, so that solution is out due to stupidity. But ... if there is something that can be done where light and medium armor gets some absurd bonus to make people more ok with having to play horse riding simulator 2k17 then they should. In my view the only thing that makes enough sense would be to give a resource boost bordering on insane.

Using my own Magplar, I currently have 49k magic in 5 heavy armor. After my Templar circle is casted I sit around 30k in each resistance. But ... if by switching to light armor maybe I could deal with 15k resists in exchange for an additional almost 10k magic, which would be 20% for me.

So I ask you ... would you rather have 59k magic and 15k resists or 49k and 30k? If the answer isn't "definitely the first one" then the buff still isn't strong enough.

You really shouldn't be able to get 49k mag/stam in HA with 30k resists buffed is my argument. Pick one, deal with subpart of the other. Or build more balanced where you can compete or where hybrid builds can play.

It's about that diversity, not "all eggs in one basket".

But we can so I do. I would be foolish not to take every advantage given to me. If they change the game then I'll change with it, but as it stands right now there are dozens of ways to make every character OP.

Also, I do have the drawback of my regen being complete garbage. My highest is around 800, with the other two significantly lowered. I combat that by using heavy staff attacks more than anyone else I know.

Here is a friendly tip. Each day take something that you "totally need" away from your character and see what happens. More often than not you'll find out that you really don't need half of what you think you do. Then take every open thing at your disposal and dump it into making what you do best, better.

casparian

One glaring weakness it has is that there's no magicka version of Shuffle

But there is a magicka version of shuffle. The fact that only magblades have it is one of the few halfway-decent distinctives we still have as a class. I suppose I would be fine with giving this to everyone, as long as Blur was buffed.

Strider_Roshin

casparian wrote: »

One glaring weakness it has is that there's no magicka version of Shuffle

But there is a magicka version of shuffle. The fact that only magblades have it is one of the few halfway-decent distinctives we still have as a class. I suppose I would be fine with giving this to everyone, as long as Blur was buffed.

I was referring to snare/root immunity.

thankyourat

Medium and light are fine, nerf the damage of heavy armor. If heavy armor players damage was lowered it wouldn't force everyone into heavy armor. As it is right now heavy armor builds can just bully you if you aren't wearing heavy as well. It's like a child trying to fight an adult. Wearing 5 pieces of heavy needs some sort of damage reduction like minor main. That way heavy armor players will hit medium and light for the same damage they are being hit for.

The reason I say bring heavy down to medium and light is because if you buff medium and lights damage it will just force everyone into heavy because damage would be too high

Strider_Roshin

thankyourat wrote: »

Medium and light are fine, nerf the damage of heavy armor. If heavy armor players damage was lowered it wouldn't force everyone into heavy armor. As it is right now heavy armor builds can just bully you if you aren't wearing heavy as well. It's like a child trying to fight an adult. Wearing 5 pieces of heavy needs some sort of damage reduction like minor main. That way heavy armor players will hit medium and light for the same damage they are being hit for.

The reason I say bring heavy down to medium and light is because if you buff medium and lights damage it will just force everyone into heavy because damage would be too high

But a bad idea. I wouldn't do minor maim though. Maybe an 8% reduction in damage? That way it can stack with other debuffs. I wouldn't want to make heavy useless though; just more inline with the other armor types.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

One glaring weakness it has is that there's no magicka version of Shuffle

But there is a magicka version of shuffle. The fact that only magblades have it is one of the few halfway-decent distinctives we still have as a class. I suppose I would be fine with giving this to everyone, as long as Blur was buffed.

I was referring to snare/root immunity.

Mist Form.

Strider_Roshin

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Strider_Roshin wrote: »

casparian wrote: »

One glaring weakness it has is that there's no magicka version of Shuffle

But there is a magicka version of shuffle. The fact that only magblades have it is one of the few halfway-decent distinctives we still have as a class. I suppose I would be fine with giving this to everyone, as long as Blur was buffed.

I was referring to snare/root immunity.

Mist Form.

touche

Sheuib

With defensive weapons, heavy chest and one other piece of heavy you will be close enough to full heavy with sharpen weapons to make it a good option. Plus you get the 5 piece passive for the other sets.

Ragnaroek93

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

Strider_Roshin

Ragnaroek93 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

There needs to be a way to make people to want to use light and medium armor and deal with the reprocussions of dying more often. And it needs to be ridiculous, bordering on game breakingly obvious.

For example, add in a 5 piece perk of 20% extra magic for light, and 20% extra stamina for medium.

As of right now all of the bonuses sound cool when on a spreadsheet but that speadsheet doesn't work too well in Cyrodiil.

That's an awesome idea if you want to remove everything except petsorcs from the game. Ressource increase always favour magicka while dmg increase favour stamina.


I think light armor is pretty strong right now. Skeleton Pirate, Shuffle (yes, it's available for magicka builds while Dampen isn't available on stambuilds) and Dampen Magicka turn them into tanks. Only weakness are snares and I agree that they shouldn't suffer that much from it but the other points should get a nerf.

Medium armor is a tough one. Would actually like to see that more stuff becomes dodgeable again. I literally died to my friend on his manablade just to one Soul Strike and one Skoria proc and nothing else while permablocking in medium armor... A 90k tooltip damage skill which ignores dodgeroll is just completely stupid (probably even worse than shieldbreaker and shieldbreaker is already one of the worst designed things in the game).
The main problem I see is what dodgeroll does cost and what it gives actually. As long as I can trust my stamina bar, the first dodgeroll already costs me 2.8k stamina, so almost the same as dampen magicka and much more than hardened ward (not even talking about stacking hardened and harness which costs basically nothing at all if you get hit by magicka damage lmao). I think that this is just way over the top compared to how cheap block and shieldspam is right now. Yes, there is a break even point then dodgeroll becomes better if getting hit by multiple enemies. But at that point you will most likely die anyways so it doesn't matter.

What if they made it so that if a move isn't dodge-able you take partial damage (~50% less damage) rather than the full amount? It still connects, and if there's a CC component or a negative effect in general it still applies. Do you think that would balance out medium armor?

So far it seems like LA doesn't need to be addressed, and it's mainly MA that needs help. Am I incorrect?

technohic

In PVE; it seems they are balanced so I would look for PVP boosts.

Add reduced roll, sprint, and stealth cost to light. I see no reason it should be harder to do that in cloth than leather.

Both armors could speed up physical medium and heavy attacks draw. Mainly a buff to medium but there if someone is running light for whatever reason (rare hybrids)

Basically thinking of mobility defenses to be a choice opposite heavy straight mitigation.

Maybe give medium a parrying/ counter attack affect to block where they return some damage to the melee attacker when they block.

Solariken

1. They should definitely scrap that stupid stealth passive and replace it with something more meaningful.

2. Replace the toxic passive dodge in Evasion with something that provides more consistent mitigation. See here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333460/remove-major-evasion-replace-with-new-major-deflection#latest

3. Restore regen while blocking and sprinting but give them a scaling cost penalty similar to that of Streak or dodge roll. This way you can actually use them reactively without bleeding all your precious stamina. This would also curb block builds and perpetual block-casting in general because if they do it too long their stam will inevitably dry up.

Strider_Roshin

Solariken wrote: »

1. They should definitely scrap that stupid stealth passive and replace it with something more meaningful.

2. Replace the toxic passive dodge in Evasion with something that provides more consistent mitigation. See here: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/333460/remove-major-evasion-replace-with-new-major-deflection#latest

3. Restore regen while blocking and sprinting but give them a scaling cost penalty similar to that of Streak or dodge roll. This way you can actually use them reactively without bleeding all your precious stamina. This would also curb block builds and perpetual block-casting in general because if they do it too long their stam will inevitably dry up.

Wow, I couldn't agree more! @ZOS_RichLambert @Wrobel please consider this.

Hurika

Medium armor skill to replace shuffle. Requires at least 5 of MA equipped.
Base skill - 20% dodge
Damage Morph - 7% of your damage bypasses shields and block per piece of MA equipped for 8s.
Sustain Morph - Reduce incoming damage by 7% for each piece of MA equipped for 8s.
Make it cost 25% of your stamina (so it can't be perma up). Yes an actual %.

Moving while stealthed unstealths you. Stealth passive in MA allows you to move while stealthed without being uncovered.

5 MA grants CC immunity. If you're gonna die in 5s seconds at least you'll die fighting and not knocked down.

Just random thoughts

Joy_Division

The problem with light armor is you are dead wearing it if multiple people attack you unless you have the mobility to kite/evade them.

It's not so much the resistance. It's running out of stamina and in general being unable to dodge or block.

Unless major reforms accompany it, I am never wearing it again unless I have a raid of healers who will enusre I am not constantly pressing E to rez at wayshrine.