Is magicka sorcerer actually OP in pvp

Waffennacht

No

I

Firerock2 wrote: »

hassubhai wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

mSorc is totally out of control this patch, half of PC EU Cyrodiil jumped already on the bandwagon. Raw damage, pressure uptime and shield stacking together makes it THE best xv1 class by far and still incredibly strong in 1v1, while still being a potent negate/destro ult bot for zerg settings.

There is no other class who can burst as frequent and as dangerous as a mSorc with so much uncounterable damage, for very little effort (this patch, hi haunting and destro ult). Everything in your average mSorcs arsenal has the potential to hit incredibly hard and lines up far too easy (curse, frags, wrath explosion, fire heavies and last but not least destro ult).

It was once an art to line up burst well with mSorc, now you have to be very unfortunate to not just burst people by accident.

Considering that you stated that magsorc used to be nonthreatening or flatout free ap for you.
Does magsorc really overperform or is it just more competetive now?

I don´t know many people that consider magsorc actually strong for 1v1 if they utilize a build not centered around pets.

Derra, come on, we didn`t have a bunch of new compeitive players streaming in or such. I observe the people I play against. I see what they do, how they play and base my judgement on that. But thanks for bringing those isolated words that have been said with a lot of context here to prove... what exactly?

Those very same people I was talking about still do the same mistakes while playing, release frag without crisp timing, refresh curse a little too early, waste ressources when they shouldn`t, play sub-optimal - but those guys now became a threat, while still being not very talented players. They didn`t become better, the only difference now is, that they can accidentially nuke you in one cc-break. I mean, with half of the skills being fire-and-forget its rather difficult to not line up at least some of those heavy hitters from time to time. Carried by absurd amounts of uncounterable damage for minimal amounts of button clicks. So, not only is mSorc still overperforming in the defensive area (shield stacking), it is now as disgusting offensive wise. And if you don`t want to have any weakness at all - slap on that skeleton.

I actually really wonder about your strawman question style. You agreed with me several times in discussions that mSorc was in a very good spot balancing wise last patch. I`ll pretend you are asking a serious question, despite me having that answered to you in detail ingame, when was it we whispered last time, few days ago? I mean, are you serious? Yeah, I obviously think they are, indeed, severly overperforming in 3 aspects: 1) raw output of damage with lack of counters against it, 2) pressure uptime due to braindead easy haunting, destro and wrath play and 3) shield stacking (harness and skeleton, or its buff application, are the most pressing issues moreso than the actual number or mechanic in regards to 3)).

How is that an easier than DK or NB or Templar?

Imo mDK and mTemp are right on par with Sorcs. I don't see Sorcs doing massively more damage than mTemps or mDKs. I don't see the same survivability as a mTemp. I just don't see a difference in overall gameplay.

You must play on CP because on No CP mTemps hit for nothing while mSorcs can burst you at 70% of your health even if you wear full heavy. They do nowhere near the same damage and the sustain of sorcs is far above any DK or Templar' s. Maybe it's a L2P issue that separates the casual sorc compared to those who really make their class shine

Minalan wrote: »

The vast majority of players here are COMPLETELY unqualified to comment on class or build balance.

They have no idea WHY they are getting ONE SHOT. HOW they are constantly ROOTED or CC'ed. They have NO idea how to make a BUILD that synergizes with their PASSIVES. They cannot DEFEND themselves, or build for DAMAGE MITIGATION and SUSTAIN. They accuse other players of CHEATING or HACKING when the lose, because they have a poor grasp of MECHANICS and GAME PLAY. Then they respawn here to demand nerfs.

Meanwhile the people who do understand the game and know how to solve the balance issues like @Derra get drowned out by the huge sack of crying potatoes. Or they're like @Thelon and just sick of arguing with taters day in an out and don't post at all.

What an incredibly biased statement. I guess I should have expected that though going into any nerf X thread. Classic naive realism.

We had one nightblade with 4K weapon damage and 15K health complaining about being killed constantly, so we helped him with his build.

We had another guy complaining about Magicka sorcerers always using hurricane on him.

We had another guy complaining about Magicka Sorcs using Magicka nightblade moves on him.

Fact is, you can hard counter a sorc with any class just by changing your build a little. The people who understand this have some decent suggestions to fix the problem. Personally I think it'll be fine next patch if they nerf pirate skeleton along with the sustain changes.

Yes, because there is a hard counter to shield stacking. Next time I fight a sorc, I'll remember to major defile his shields



IMO any sorc who thinks Templars have a hard counter like Total Dark are insanely bad at their class and any sorc who doesn't realize that curse+crushing shock+streaking in with dawnbreaker+mages fury is going to destroy a DK who spams wings is not in their right mind. Remember that wings cost 3410 magicka and their heal costs even more. DK's can't spam them unlike sorc shields so if you pressure them enough they will fold

An MDK with vampire, reactive heavy, mist form, bloodspawn and talons/fossil spam isn't going to die easily to freaking force pulse and curse, even with the occasional DBoS.

Edit: oops, I forgot the 2K damage you'll take from streak...

They won't do any damage either. You shouldn't be dying to a Magdk with that setup and if you are that's not something I think you should advertise on the forums

BTW I'm not expecting you to Insta shot a DK but it's not like wings counters every skill sorcs have and good sorcs work around it. I can teach you a few things in-game if you are on PC NA

My point is that it's a stalemate between the two. MDK is death by a thousand cuts, a straight sustain fight. If both a sorc and an MDK use a cost poison, it's anyone's game.

Yes, I did lose a duel once to a good friend using skoria proc and leap. But then I was playing around with vampire at the time (I don't ever run vampire). I don't know how effective that is if your opponent isn't, but that's a pretty mean combo if you're taking stage four penalty damage.

I t isn't a stalemate though. Magdk dps is nothing compared to the burst potential of sorcs. If for some reason you both have crappy damage the sorc will still be able to out sustain the dk.

The tankiness that sorcs achieve just by stacking their max magical makes it almost impossible to burst down a good sorc.

Their skills cost less, they do more damage, and their survivability is much higher. It's not equal

Have you played a class other than sorc?

Stamblade, the other burst class. I suppose that doesn't help much

There are dueling MDK's that can last just as long as a sorc 1v1. Head over to the undaunted enclave in Wayrest.

I'm sure there are, I'm not saying that no Magdk has ever beaten a magsorc. What I'm saying is that sorcs have a clear advantage when it comes to sustain, damage, and tankiness.

A lot of people complain about infinite sustain builds and troll kings. Magicka Sorcerers are the magicka equivalent in my opinion. You can get them low but they don't go down and they never run out of resources. That being said a bad player is always conquerable.

I go to wayrest all the time, however I find dueling in Cyro more enjoyable due to the fact that ZOS never added a no CP dueling option and I'm not about to spend 3k every time I want to duel.

In my opinion Magsorcs need to be brought down a notch and their regen passives need a nerf. Along with that implosion needs to go and haunting curse could do SLIGHTLY less damage. I've been getting hit for 7-9k haunting curses in Cyro lately and I think that's a little high. As for implosion, an execute that can insta kill at 20% is just dumb, at least you can react to radiant. In a CP duel I got hit for a 6.6k implosion which is asinine for just being a passive.

Implosion isnt the execute

It works similarly to Mage's Fury so yes it is. It's a passive designed as an execute. It can go

Every sorc would trade this passive for anything that had an influence 100% of the time

AAbrigo

Yes

Totally nonsense poll since the 60% who said no is a magicka sorcerer.

Lol!

FlyLionel

No

Waffennacht wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

mSorc is totally out of control this patch, half of PC EU Cyrodiil jumped already on the bandwagon. Raw damage, pressure uptime and shield stacking together makes it THE best xv1 class by far and still incredibly strong in 1v1, while still being a potent negate/destro ult bot for zerg settings.

There is no other class who can burst as frequent and as dangerous as a mSorc with so much uncounterable damage, for very little effort (this patch, hi haunting and destro ult). Everything in your average mSorcs arsenal has the potential to hit incredibly hard and lines up far too easy (curse, frags, wrath explosion, fire heavies and last but not least destro ult).

It was once an art to line up burst well with mSorc, now you have to be very unfortunate to not just burst people by accident.

But my mNB has access to the same ult, same gear, better spammable damage move, better passive healing and crit damage, a comparable burst with merciless and the best hard CC in game.

Sorcs are good, no question there, but if they were OP, I certainly would have noticed a considerable loss of performance when I switched up to mNB

Mistake one, comparing frags to merciless lol. Merciless is a no compared, and fossalize is the best hard CC in the game. Ask any seasoned vet, fear is best open world though, I'll give you that.

leepalmer95

No

AAbrigo wrote: »

Totally nonsense poll since the 60% who said no is a magicka sorcerer.

Lol!

I have all characters magicka and stamina max, they are all atleast pvp rank 20+.

Magicka sorc is not OP.

Do you even have a magicka sorc or are you one of those people complaining something is OP without actually playing it.

AAbrigo

Yes

leepalmer95 wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

Totally nonsense poll since the 60% who said no is a magicka sorcerer.

Lol!

I have all characters magicka and stamina max, they are all atleast pvp rank 20+.

Magicka sorc is not OP.

Do you even have a magicka sorc or are you one of those people complaining something is OP without actually playing it.

Yes.

And you say its not OP to stack shields, cant be crit, unlimited ressources and be the only magicka class to run light armor and be viable in pvp?

That is OP imo.

leepalmer95

No

AAbrigo wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

Totally nonsense poll since the 60% who said no is a magicka sorcerer.

Lol!

I have all characters magicka and stamina max, they are all atleast pvp rank 20+.

Magicka sorc is not OP.

Do you even have a magicka sorc or are you one of those people complaining something is OP without actually playing it.

Yes.

And you say its not OP to stack shields, cant be crit, unlimited ressources and be the only magicka class to run light armor and be viable in pvp?

That is OP imo.

Its the only magicka class that isn't good with heavy. A class isn't OP because its the only one that uses light reliably. Magicka nb's use light as well.

Unlimited resources? Magicka sorc build for regen, shields aren't cheap. Can't be crit but shields don't have any armor value and only last 6s.

Shields are strong in 1v1 i'll give you that, but they can be beat in a 1v1. The more people on a sorc the quicker shields become less effective.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

No

Rarely do @leepalmer95 and I agree but he is 100% right here. I'm a Magplar who hasn't played a Magsorc past level 15 but I have killed probably 10,000 Magsorcs in Cyrodiil. They are not OP.

The problem is that so many of you are UP ... under powered. People are complaining about huge magic pools and uncrittable shields. Well you can do the same thing on any magic character. This isn't just a sorc thing. People spend so much time trying to conform to things you are "supposed to do" (high regen, defensive traits on gear) and fail to do what you can do. I have 49922 magic on a Templar without wearing any set already mentioned. I can melt 95% of sorcs right through their shields with a basic soul assault into radiant combo.

Open up your mind and stretch your build to new levels. Every class can be OP if you're willing to try new things. If you're just gonna do what everyone else does then you'll be just like everyone else.

Firerock2

Yes

FlyLionel wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

mSorc is totally out of control this patch, half of PC EU Cyrodiil jumped already on the bandwagon. Raw damage, pressure uptime and shield stacking together makes it THE best xv1 class by far and still incredibly strong in 1v1, while still being a potent negate/destro ult bot for zerg settings.

There is no other class who can burst as frequent and as dangerous as a mSorc with so much uncounterable damage, for very little effort (this patch, hi haunting and destro ult). Everything in your average mSorcs arsenal has the potential to hit incredibly hard and lines up far too easy (curse, frags, wrath explosion, fire heavies and last but not least destro ult).

It was once an art to line up burst well with mSorc, now you have to be very unfortunate to not just burst people by accident.

But my mNB has access to the same ult, same gear, better spammable damage move, better passive healing and crit damage, a comparable burst with merciless and the best hard CC in game.

Sorcs are good, no question there, but if they were OP, I certainly would have noticed a considerable loss of performance when I switched up to mNB

Mistake one, comparing frags to merciless lol. Merciless is a no compared, and fossalize is the best hard CC in the game. Ask any seasoned vet, fear is best open world though, I'll give you that.

I would argue that fear is the best hard cc in the game anytime since fossilize is a disorient

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Rarely do @leepalmer95 and I agree but he is 100% right here. I'm a Magplar who hasn't played a Magsorc past level 15 but I have killed probably 10,000 Magsorcs in Cyrodiil. They are not OP.

The problem is that so many of you are UP ... under powered. People are complaining about huge magic pools and uncrittable shields. Well you can do the same thing on any magic character. This isn't just a sorc thing. People spend so much time trying to conform to things you are "supposed to do" (high regen, defensive traits on gear) and fail to do what you can do. I have 49922 magic on a Templar without wearing any set already mentioned. I can melt 95% of sorcs right through their shields with a basic soul assault into radiant combo.

Open up your mind and stretch your build to new levels. Every class can be OP if you're willing to try new things. If you're just gonna do what everyone else does then you'll be just like everyone else.

Plays on CP and is talking about class balance....Im sure all those sorc kills were at or above your CP level

The Passives between a magplar and magsorc say enough

THEDKEXPERIENCE

No

Firerock2 wrote: »

FlyLionel wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

mSorc is totally out of control this patch, half of PC EU Cyrodiil jumped already on the bandwagon. Raw damage, pressure uptime and shield stacking together makes it THE best xv1 class by far and still incredibly strong in 1v1, while still being a potent negate/destro ult bot for zerg settings.

There is no other class who can burst as frequent and as dangerous as a mSorc with so much uncounterable damage, for very little effort (this patch, hi haunting and destro ult). Everything in your average mSorcs arsenal has the potential to hit incredibly hard and lines up far too easy (curse, frags, wrath explosion, fire heavies and last but not least destro ult).

It was once an art to line up burst well with mSorc, now you have to be very unfortunate to not just burst people by accident.

But my mNB has access to the same ult, same gear, better spammable damage move, better passive healing and crit damage, a comparable burst with merciless and the best hard CC in game.

Sorcs are good, no question there, but if they were OP, I certainly would have noticed a considerable loss of performance when I switched up to mNB

Mistake one, comparing frags to merciless lol. Merciless is a no compared, and fossalize is the best hard CC in the game. Ask any seasoned vet, fear is best open world though, I'll give you that.

I would argue that fear is the best hard cc in the game.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Rarely do @leepalmer95 and I agree but he is 100% right here. I'm a Magplar who hasn't played a Magsorc past level 15 but I have killed probably 10,000 Magsorcs in Cyrodiil. They are not OP.

The problem is that so many of you are UP ... under powered. People are complaining about huge magic pools and uncrittable shields. Well you can do the same thing on any magic character. This isn't just a sorc thing. People spend so much time trying to conform to things you are "supposed to do" (high regen, defensive traits on gear) and fail to do what you can do. I have 49922 magic on a Templar without wearing any set already mentioned. I can melt 95% of sorcs right through their shields with a basic soul assault into radiant combo.

Open up your mind and stretch your build to new levels. Every class can be OP if you're willing to try new things. If you're just gonna do what everyone else does then you'll be just like everyone else.

Plays on CP and is talking about class balance....Im sure all those sorc kills were at or above your CP level

The Passives between a magplar and magsorc say enough

- During the no-CP week I changed nothing about my build and had one of my best PVP weeks ever. My character was more dominant. I just had to be slightly more careful about my regen. It took about 15 minutes to adjust.
- My level? You're talking to the wrong guy. I have no issue with melting a level 10 in mismatched gear. So yeah, you're right, but it doesn't really matter because I've killed thousands of max rank players and multiple good Emperors.
- How long have you been playing this game? When IC dropped Magsorcs dominated it via strategic use of clapping their hands together while hiding under the EP Arena spawn point. 20 second shields were OP. 6 seconds? Yeah ... most average players can't even stack 2 shields together in this time and actually do any damage. So if you're actually arguing that the best Magsorcs are OP then sure they are. But so are the best players in every class.

Firerock2

Yes

leepalmer95 wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

AAbrigo wrote: »

Totally nonsense poll since the 60% who said no is a magicka sorcerer.

Lol!

I have all characters magicka and stamina max, they are all atleast pvp rank 20+.

Magicka sorc is not OP.

Do you even have a magicka sorc or are you one of those people complaining something is OP without actually playing it.

Yes.

And you say its not OP to stack shields, cant be crit, unlimited ressources and be the only magicka class to run light armor and be viable in pvp?

That is OP imo.

Unlimited resources? Magicka sorc build for regen, shields aren't cheap. Can't be crit but shields don't have any armor value and only last 6s.

Their shields are cheaper compared to the other classes survivability mechanics and they have far superior regen passives. Maybe they can't sustain forever but they can out sustain the other classes for sure

THEDKEXPERIENCE

No

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

Yubarius

No

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Firerock2

Yes

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Minalan

No

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

Firerock2

Yes

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block; don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshield it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Maybe it's a different story on CP, maybe you are just bad

Try harder

Minalan

No

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block, don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshirld it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Try harder

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective.

Hur durr. 100K SA isn't that challenging to hit, cut that in half, remove some damage for armor, and you're healing 40K over four seconds, about 10K or so HPS.

Not impossible.

PS: nerf sorc!

Firerock2

Yes

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block, don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshirld it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Try harder

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective.

Hur durr. 100K SA isn't that challenging to hit, cut that in half, remove some damage for armor, and you're healing 40K over four seconds, about 10K or so HPS.

Not impossible.

PS: nerf sorc!

lmfao

Thurmaturge and whatever the magicka damage CP buff is end up buffing this skill by 50%. On no CP you have to also build for sustain and drop damage that way.

That DK experience guy said he got an 80k+ tooktip with like 44k magicka. He would get nowhere near that in no CP and he also runs ZERO impen which means he sacrifices a lot for a crappy ult. He gets incredibly low sustain and he has near 0 crit resistance on Azuras

Show me a 100k+ S.A. tooltip in Azuras and show me it on a build that won't get 2 shot.

Where did you get 100k+? Out of your a**?

Don't forget that I BLOCK which mitigates a lot of damage. I like most people don't run naked around Cyrodiil and I have around 22k spell resistance. I also apply minor maim which reduces damage by 15%.

Like I said I can outshield S.A. even better on my sorc, it's not that hard Huurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Beardimus

No

I dont get the alarmists jumping on the band wagon to Nerf sorc "this patch"

The wards haven't changed, the dudes that can't kill sorcs now Couldn't kill them before (L2P)

U13 scamp got 2 more ticks (rare to even see them in PvP) and Curse got one more explosion 8 secs later. How is that suddenly making them OP.

All good players can smash sorcs same before U13 as after.

If one extra curse makes them OP then damn ZOS have that balance close

Firerock2

Yes

Beardimus wrote: »

I dont get the alarmists jumping on the band wagon to Nerf sorc "this patch"

The wards haven't changed, the dudes that can't kill sorcs now Couldn't kill them before (L2P)

U13 scamp got 2 more ticks (rare to even see them in PvP) and Curse got one more explosion 8 secs later. How is that suddenly making them OP.

All good players can smash sorcs same before U13 as after.

If one extra curse makes them OP then damn ZOS have that balance close

I didn't just hop on this bandwagon and neither did many of the people who think sorcs over-perform. Yeah I think balance is somewhat close in this game and no class is an unkillable god, that's a little ridiculous to come to that conclusion. That being said the sorcerer class has clear advantages over the others in terms of sustain, survivability, and damage. It's something that hasn't been addressed and really should be.

This is not a new development.

EDIT: Looks like you guys win. Morrowind PTS has DK and Templar nerfed while Sorcs remain the strongest class. GG, not sure what ZOS was thinking

Waffennacht

No

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block, don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshirld it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Try harder

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective.

Hur durr. 100K SA isn't that challenging to hit, cut that in half, remove some damage for armor, and you're healing 40K over four seconds, about 10K or so HPS.

Not impossible.

PS: nerf sorc!

lmfao

Thurmaturge and whatever the magicka damage CP buff is end up buffing this skill by 50%. On no CP you have to also build for sustain and drop damage that way.

That DK experience guy said he got an 80k+ tooktip with like 44k magicka. He would get nowhere near that in no CP and he also runs ZERO impen which means he sacrifices a lot for a crappy ult. He gets incredibly low sustain and he has near 0 crit resistance on Azuras

Show me a 100k+ S.A. tooltip in Azuras and show me it on a build that won't get 2 shot.

Where did you get 100k+? Out of your a**?

Don't forget that I BLOCK which mitigates a lot of damage. I like most people don't run naked around Cyrodiil and I have around 22k spell resistance. I also apply minor maim which reduces damage by 15%.

Like I said I can outshield S.A. even better on my sorc, it's not that hard Huurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Um let's see here, what I did was:
15% from thaum
20% from the other elemental magicka one (so not as high as it could be)

Necropotence
Alchemist
DW
Weapon dmg glyph proc
Self buffed via Power Surge

100K SA - purp jewellery, gold weapons,

Innerlight only

So if I combined bound armaments (the magicka version, name eludes me atm) gold jewellery (ty vendor) mis matched monster pieces (or dare god... KENA??)

I guarantee you I can get my cheesey af cheese burger meta sorc to do 100k+ in no CP.

Firerock2

Yes

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block, don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshirld it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Try harder

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective.

Hur durr. 100K SA isn't that challenging to hit, cut that in half, remove some damage for armor, and you're healing 40K over four seconds, about 10K or so HPS.

Not impossible.

PS: nerf sorc!

lmfao

Thurmaturge and whatever the magicka damage CP buff is end up buffing this skill by 50%. On no CP you have to also build for sustain and drop damage that way.

That DK experience guy said he got an 80k+ tooktip with like 44k magicka. He would get nowhere near that in no CP and he also runs ZERO impen which means he sacrifices a lot for a crappy ult. He gets incredibly low sustain and he has near 0 crit resistance on Azuras

Show me a 100k+ S.A. tooltip in Azuras and show me it on a build that won't get 2 shot.

Where did you get 100k+? Out of your a**?

Don't forget that I BLOCK which mitigates a lot of damage. I like most people don't run naked around Cyrodiil and I have around 22k spell resistance. I also apply minor maim which reduces damage by 15%.

Like I said I can outshield S.A. even better on my sorc, it's not that hard Huurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Um let's see here, what I did was:
15% from thaum
20% from the other elemental magicka one (so not as high as it could be)

Necropotence
Alchemist
DW
Weapon dmg glyph proc
Self buffed via Power Surge

100K SA - purp jewellery, gold weapons,

Innerlight only

So if I combined bound armaments (the magicka version, name eludes me atm) gold jewellery (ty vendor) mis matched monster pieces (or dare god... KENA??)

I guarantee you I can get my cheesey af cheese burger meta sorc to do 100k+ in no CP.

AHA make a video please or come to Azura's NA and try SA on me. I will outheal it with a crappy and expensive heal, Coagulating Blood.

Waffennacht

No

Firerock2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block, don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshirld it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Try harder

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective.

Hur durr. 100K SA isn't that challenging to hit, cut that in half, remove some damage for armor, and you're healing 40K over four seconds, about 10K or so HPS.

Not impossible.

PS: nerf sorc!

lmfao

Thurmaturge and whatever the magicka damage CP buff is end up buffing this skill by 50%. On no CP you have to also build for sustain and drop damage that way.

That DK experience guy said he got an 80k+ tooktip with like 44k magicka. He would get nowhere near that in no CP and he also runs ZERO impen which means he sacrifices a lot for a crappy ult. He gets incredibly low sustain and he has near 0 crit resistance on Azuras

Show me a 100k+ S.A. tooltip in Azuras and show me it on a build that won't get 2 shot.

Where did you get 100k+? Out of your a**?

Don't forget that I BLOCK which mitigates a lot of damage. I like most people don't run naked around Cyrodiil and I have around 22k spell resistance. I also apply minor maim which reduces damage by 15%.

Like I said I can outshield S.A. even better on my sorc, it's not that hard Huurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Um let's see here, what I did was:
15% from thaum
20% from the other elemental magicka one (so not as high as it could be)

Necropotence
Alchemist
DW
Weapon dmg glyph proc
Self buffed via Power Surge

100K SA - purp jewellery, gold weapons,

Innerlight only

So if I combined bound armaments (the magicka version, name eludes me atm) gold jewellery (ty vendor) mis matched monster pieces (or dare god... KENA??)

I guarantee you I can get my cheesey af cheese burger meta sorc to do 100k+ in no CP.

AHA make a video please or come to Azura's NA and try SA on me. I will outheal it with a crappy and expensive heal, Coagulating Blood.

Well first off... No

I'm on xbox, second - No again, I don't use meta builds

Third - no because I'm not a paperweight I don't expect the same move to work on everything. - especially someone I'm hypothetically battling - that I just told MY WHOLE BUILD AND STRATEGY TO DURRR.

Firerock2

Yes

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block, don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshirld it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Try harder

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective.

Hur durr. 100K SA isn't that challenging to hit, cut that in half, remove some damage for armor, and you're healing 40K over four seconds, about 10K or so HPS.

Not impossible.

PS: nerf sorc!

lmfao

Thurmaturge and whatever the magicka damage CP buff is end up buffing this skill by 50%. On no CP you have to also build for sustain and drop damage that way.

That DK experience guy said he got an 80k+ tooktip with like 44k magicka. He would get nowhere near that in no CP and he also runs ZERO impen which means he sacrifices a lot for a crappy ult. He gets incredibly low sustain and he has near 0 crit resistance on Azuras

Show me a 100k+ S.A. tooltip in Azuras and show me it on a build that won't get 2 shot.

Where did you get 100k+? Out of your a**?

Don't forget that I BLOCK which mitigates a lot of damage. I like most people don't run naked around Cyrodiil and I have around 22k spell resistance. I also apply minor maim which reduces damage by 15%.

Like I said I can outshield S.A. even better on my sorc, it's not that hard Huurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Um let's see here, what I did was:
15% from thaum
20% from the other elemental magicka one (so not as high as it could be)

Necropotence
Alchemist
DW
Weapon dmg glyph proc
Self buffed via Power Surge

100K SA - purp jewellery, gold weapons,

Innerlight only

So if I combined bound armaments (the magicka version, name eludes me atm) gold jewellery (ty vendor) mis matched monster pieces (or dare god... KENA??)

I guarantee you I can get my cheesey af cheese burger meta sorc to do 100k+ in no CP.

AHA make a video please or come to Azura's NA and try SA on me. I will outheal it with a crappy and expensive heal, Coagulating Blood.

Well first off... No

I'm on xbox, second - No again, I don't use meta builds

Third - no because I'm not a paperweight I don't expect the same move to work on everything. - especially someone I'm hypothetically battling - that I just told MY WHOLE BUILD AND STRATEGY TO DURRR.

I'm not asking for a 1v1. I'm asking you to cast SA on me so I can out heal it.

Since you are on xbox though you can show me a tooltip of at least 100k in NO CP.

Don't forget that sorcs also benefit more from builds that use less impen and more divines because shields can't be crit against. Builds like DK's build are even more suited for sorc's. Anyway you guys win, DK's and Temps are getting nerfed and so is healing general in Morrowind.

Shield stacking will remain incredibly strong and Sorc's won't really have a challenge now.

KingJ

Yes

I voted yes they are the only class not to be nerfed in some way today so they have to be Op.

Waffennacht

No

Firerock2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Firerock2 wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

@Firerock2

Let me turn this around. In Cyrodiil what would you use on offense if confronted with a Magsorc?

Personally if I did not have an 80,000 magic shotgun in Soul Assault I'd probably have similar problems but this is exactly why I equip it.

I cc right before hardened runs out and then burst with an ultimate. If I time it right hardened expires right before I hit them and I can burst through their shields. On my Templar I have sorcs outshield radiant all the time and on my dk if I don't get them with the burst then they just reset. I've also fought bad sorcs who kill themselves but that doesn't really help the discussion

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective. Sustained damage abilities like that and radiant don't ever cause me harm unless I'm fighting a group on my own

Also, I have been playing since the summer of 2014 and solely used a Templar for 1 1/2 years. It's sounds like magplar works out for you but I have taken a break from the class due to it being lack luster in anything other than a healbot. My DK has and does continually outperform my magplar since I created it over a year ago. I also jumped on Azuras the moment it was released.

I've been through 1.6, 1.7, etc. The CP cap and Battle Spirit didn't completely fix the sorcs shield problem and neither did the timer reduction.

EDIT: I saw you post your build in the necro thread and I just have to ask. How often do you get 2 shot on the no CP campaign? I get that you can get crit resistance from CP alone and it's probably enough for you but dude I see you as a complete glass cannon. I ran a complete DPS build like that on my magplar at one point and I was fairly survivable in the no CP campaign but that was against pugs. Do you do small scale or run in a large group? Your build seems like a good large group build where you don't get focused often

Yubarius wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

They need to get harder to play. Obviously I am all for nerfs (mostly to shields) since that solves the same problem too.
In the middle of the pack (not noob, not 3 years of experience), they have easier time killing others than others have killing them.
There is no excuse for it. That has to be addressed no matter what (and only that what should bring heated up debates)

So you want to nerf shields even more? You realize they only last six seconds and are still cut in half in cyrodiil right? After putting up shields, a magsorc can only get one good rotation off to try and burst someone before having to reapply shields. If you die to that ONE burst rotation, then you need to learn what block, dodgeroll and healing is.

Wings lasts 4 seconds but if I do it right, I can kill a squishy before having to put them up again in a 1vX scenario. 6 second shield management is easy

BTW heals are cut in half too. Every class deals with the Battle Spirit debuff

Templar doesn't block soul assault, just outheals it. Tooltip is 100K+

Sorc is op, plz nerf.

WRONG

Nice try but like I said before I don't play on CP, the tooltip isn't 100k+. When did I ever say I don't block, don't assume. I outheal it on my magdk by spamming coagulating blood with a tooktip of 6k heals which costs 3.9k magicka. I could outshirld it on my sorc with more ease since the costs are not comparable at all.

Try harder

On a side note, I never run soul assault and I think it's kind of terrible. I can outheal it's DPS always but this comes from a no cp perspective.

Hur durr. 100K SA isn't that challenging to hit, cut that in half, remove some damage for armor, and you're healing 40K over four seconds, about 10K or so HPS.

Not impossible.

PS: nerf sorc!

lmfao

Thurmaturge and whatever the magicka damage CP buff is end up buffing this skill by 50%. On no CP you have to also build for sustain and drop damage that way.

That DK experience guy said he got an 80k+ tooktip with like 44k magicka. He would get nowhere near that in no CP and he also runs ZERO impen which means he sacrifices a lot for a crappy ult. He gets incredibly low sustain and he has near 0 crit resistance on Azuras

Show me a 100k+ S.A. tooltip in Azuras and show me it on a build that won't get 2 shot.

Where did you get 100k+? Out of your a**?

Don't forget that I BLOCK which mitigates a lot of damage. I like most people don't run naked around Cyrodiil and I have around 22k spell resistance. I also apply minor maim which reduces damage by 15%.

Like I said I can outshield S.A. even better on my sorc, it's not that hard Huurrrrrrrrrrrrrrr Durrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr

Um let's see here, what I did was:
15% from thaum
20% from the other elemental magicka one (so not as high as it could be)

Necropotence
Alchemist
DW
Weapon dmg glyph proc
Self buffed via Power Surge

100K SA - purp jewellery, gold weapons,

Innerlight only

So if I combined bound armaments (the magicka version, name eludes me atm) gold jewellery (ty vendor) mis matched monster pieces (or dare god... KENA??)

I guarantee you I can get my cheesey af cheese burger meta sorc to do 100k+ in no CP.

AHA make a video please or come to Azura's NA and try SA on me. I will outheal it with a crappy and expensive heal, Coagulating Blood.

Well first off... No

I'm on xbox, second - No again, I don't use meta builds

Third - no because I'm not a paperweight I don't expect the same move to work on everything. - especially someone I'm hypothetically battling - that I just told MY WHOLE BUILD AND STRATEGY TO DURRR.

I'm not asking for a 1v1. I'm asking you to cast SA on me so I can out heal it.

Since you are on xbox though you can show me a tooltip of at least 100k in NO CP.

Don't forget that sorcs also benefit more from builds that use less impen and more divines because shields can't be crit against. Builds like DK's build are even more suited for sorc's. Anyway you guys win, DK's and Temps are getting nerfed and so is healing general in Morrowind.

Shield stacking will remain incredibly strong and Sorc's won't really have a challenge now.

I'll do it just to do it. (The pic that is)

I never said you couldn't counter it etc, just said it could be done. And now I shall once I can put my main into Azuras.

It won't be a build I'll use, just one that can reach those numbers.

Waffennacht

No

I just wanna share my brainstorming real quick on this 100k Soul Assault.

I would want x5 heavy x1 light and x1 medium. Heavy wrath passive will increase tooltip even though light would provide more actual damage.

Necro x5 front bar x2 kena x5 alchemist backbar (maybe x2 willpower swords, higher than alch x4 on front bar. The problem with this is all I have is gold sharpened, gold nirnhoned would provide a higher tooltip.)

Mage or Apprentice, prob apprentice because it'll provide a higher tool tip.

Innerlight, Armor, Familiar for max magicka buffs, Power surge, weapon dmg proc.

All 3 spell damage glyphs

DW

I'm very confident that this will result in over 100k SA in no CP

Edit: the front bar for most damage probably would be x2 Kena, x5 Necro, x2 Willpower, x3 Alchemist. - yeah Alchemist does little on this bar, however I think heavy wrath passive plus willpower, proc alchemist on back bar, would be better than BSW proc on back bar in light.

Edit edit: actually I think BSW +Kena + Alchemist may be even better actually for a higher tooltip... by like a very small margin.

Actually the best would be: x2 Kena, x2 willpower, x4 bsw x4 Alchemist, proccing both on backbar, (which would be insanely difficult... BUT i bet 1 out of 5 starting LA with a fire glyph would proc BSW, then do a second LA for weapon dmg proc on off hand )
So i find a golbin in Cyrodiil, let him beat me for wrath passive, LA once on dw backbar until I get lucky and proc BSW. Hut second LA procing wpn dmg and kena, use potion proccing Alchemist (and gaining potion buff) weapon swap to front bar with willpower set and screen shot my SA.

With 650 from alchemist, 650 from BSW 500 from kena, 300 from weapon dmg glyph, that's 2600 spell damage (including power surge buff on these numbers alone)
1800 magicka from willpower, innerlight, armor for 15% more magicka,

That should be North of 5k spell damage and at least 40k magicka, meaning at least a 100k SA

Minalan

No

Waffennacht wrote: »

I just wanna share my brainstorming real quick on this 100k Soul Assault.

I would want x5 heavy x1 light and x1 medium. Heavy wrath passive will increase tooltip even though light would provide more actual damage.

Necro x5 front bar x2 kena x5 alchemist backbar (maybe x2 willpower swords, higher than alch x4 on front bar. The problem with this is all I have is gold sharpened, gold nirnhoned would provide a higher tooltip.)

Mage or Apprentice, prob apprentice because it'll provide a higher tool tip.

Innerlight, Armor, Familiar for max magicka buffs, Power surge, weapon dmg proc.

All 3 spell damage glyphs

DW

I'm very confident that this will result in over 100k SA in no CP

Edit: the front bar for most damage probably would be x2 Kena, x5 Necro, x2 Willpower, x3 Alchemist. - yeah Alchemist does little on this bar, however I think heavy wrath passive plus willpower, proc alchemist on back bar, would be better than BSW proc on back bar in light.

Edit edit: actually I think BSW +Kena + Alchemist may be even better actually for a higher tooltip... by like a very small margin.

Actually the best would be: x2 Kena, x2 willpower, x4 bsw x4 Alchemist, proccing both on backbar, (which would be insanely difficult... BUT i bet 1 out of 5 starting LA with a fire glyph would proc BSW, then do a second LA for weapon dmg proc on off hand )
So i find a golbin in Cyrodiil, let him beat me for wrath passive, LA once on dw backbar until I get lucky and proc BSW. Hut second LA procing wpn dmg and kena, use potion proccing Alchemist (and gaining potion buff) weapon swap to front bar with willpower set and screen shot my SA.

With 650 from alchemist, 650 from BSW 500 from kena, 300 from weapon dmg glyph, that's 2600 spell damage (including power surge buff on these numbers alone)
1800 magicka from willpower, innerlight, armor for 15% more magicka,

That should be North of 5k spell damage and at least 40k magicka, meaning at least a 100k SA

Love it man, only you can turn a sorc whine thread into a theorycrafting one!

Firerock2

Yes

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I just wanna share my brainstorming real quick on this 100k Soul Assault.

I would want x5 heavy x1 light and x1 medium. Heavy wrath passive will increase tooltip even though light would provide more actual damage.

Necro x5 front bar x2 kena x5 alchemist backbar (maybe x2 willpower swords, higher than alch x4 on front bar. The problem with this is all I have is gold sharpened, gold nirnhoned would provide a higher tooltip.)

Mage or Apprentice, prob apprentice because it'll provide a higher tool tip.

Innerlight, Armor, Familiar for max magicka buffs, Power surge, weapon dmg proc.

All 3 spell damage glyphs

DW

I'm very confident that this will result in over 100k SA in no CP

Edit: the front bar for most damage probably would be x2 Kena, x5 Necro, x2 Willpower, x3 Alchemist. - yeah Alchemist does little on this bar, however I think heavy wrath passive plus willpower, proc alchemist on back bar, would be better than BSW proc on back bar in light.

Edit edit: actually I think BSW +Kena + Alchemist may be even better actually for a higher tooltip... by like a very small margin.

Actually the best would be: x2 Kena, x2 willpower, x4 bsw x4 Alchemist, proccing both on backbar, (which would be insanely difficult... BUT i bet 1 out of 5 starting LA with a fire glyph would proc BSW, then do a second LA for weapon dmg proc on off hand )
So i find a golbin in Cyrodiil, let him beat me for wrath passive, LA once on dw backbar until I get lucky and proc BSW. Hut second LA procing wpn dmg and kena, use potion proccing Alchemist (and gaining potion buff) weapon swap to front bar with willpower set and screen shot my SA.

With 650 from alchemist, 650 from BSW 500 from kena, 300 from weapon dmg glyph, that's 2600 spell damage (including power surge buff on these numbers alone)
1800 magicka from willpower, innerlight, armor for 15% more magicka,

That should be North of 5k spell damage and at least 40k magicka, meaning at least a 100k SA

Love it man, only you can turn a sorc whine thread into a theorycrafting one!

still no picture

Not to mention the fact that this is turning it way off topic and avoiding the entire fact that Sorc's have better passives, better damage, and better tankiness. ESPECIALLY now that every other class is being nerfed in Morrowind.

Waffennacht

No

Firerock2 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I just wanna share my brainstorming real quick on this 100k Soul Assault.

I would want x5 heavy x1 light and x1 medium. Heavy wrath passive will increase tooltip even though light would provide more actual damage.

Necro x5 front bar x2 kena x5 alchemist backbar (maybe x2 willpower swords, higher than alch x4 on front bar. The problem with this is all I have is gold sharpened, gold nirnhoned would provide a higher tooltip.)

Mage or Apprentice, prob apprentice because it'll provide a higher tool tip.

Innerlight, Armor, Familiar for max magicka buffs, Power surge, weapon dmg proc.

All 3 spell damage glyphs

DW

I'm very confident that this will result in over 100k SA in no CP

Edit: the front bar for most damage probably would be x2 Kena, x5 Necro, x2 Willpower, x3 Alchemist. - yeah Alchemist does little on this bar, however I think heavy wrath passive plus willpower, proc alchemist on back bar, would be better than BSW proc on back bar in light.

Edit edit: actually I think BSW +Kena + Alchemist may be even better actually for a higher tooltip... by like a very small margin.

Actually the best would be: x2 Kena, x2 willpower, x4 bsw x4 Alchemist, proccing both on backbar, (which would be insanely difficult... BUT i bet 1 out of 5 starting LA with a fire glyph would proc BSW, then do a second LA for weapon dmg proc on off hand )
So i find a golbin in Cyrodiil, let him beat me for wrath passive, LA once on dw backbar until I get lucky and proc BSW. Hut second LA procing wpn dmg and kena, use potion proccing Alchemist (and gaining potion buff) weapon swap to front bar with willpower set and screen shot my SA.

With 650 from alchemist, 650 from BSW 500 from kena, 300 from weapon dmg glyph, that's 2600 spell damage (including power surge buff on these numbers alone)
1800 magicka from willpower, innerlight, armor for 15% more magicka,

That should be North of 5k spell damage and at least 40k magicka, meaning at least a 100k SA

Love it man, only you can turn a sorc whine thread into a theorycrafting one!

still no picture

Not to mention the fact that this is turning it way off topic and avoiding the entire fact that Sorc's have better passives, better damage, and better tankiness. ESPECIALLY now that every other class is being nerfed in Morrowind.

I'm still waiting to play, you'll have the picture asap! Quite frankly all I care about is just theory crafting things, so this is an absolute hoot for me.

Look, as for the thread, PTS notes are out, nothing is really changing for sorcs for... 5 or 6 months?

Tk, is being nerfed kinda, and Skele is losing a % lmao.

But trust me, I'll get a 100k SA, it's a goal of mine now lmao! And I have BSW weapons and Alchemist made, already have at least 1 ancient gold willpower sword. Got all the undaunted passives on my main unlocked.

I can't wait to log in and see what I can come up with

WreckfulAbandon

Pirate skele is giving sorcs a boost they don't need right now.

And Velocious Curse didn't need the buff. It was fine the way it was.

Shields are fine at 6 sec, if pirate skele is addressed.

Sorc burst is not over the top considering the big hit is dodgeable and reflectable.

EoTS, zerging, and everyone blocking all day is what kills PvP, not sorcs