LeifErickson wrote: »A pve player at capped cp can come into pvp having never done it before and literally never die. By that I mean it takes no skill. I see more and more scrubs every day that I use to destroy but now they are literally unlikable 1v1. It is just too easy. In order to survive against another player(s), it should be because you are better than them.
Since I see many do not agree with me I have proposed something else ? Why not just make befoul more viable in the champion tree ? I come to these forums to make solutions not to tell people they don't know what they're talking about because I feel my build will be nerfed
Ohh cool but yea adding back the old cloak will help a lot but that alone will not fix the major issue which currently is with sets. @Wrobel and @ZOS_BrianWheeler need to balance sets.Some of these sets are just broken combined with CP is a serious issue.@Lord_MK Are you Morning Kush?
Personally I don't agree with removing blessed. Maybe cutting it down to 15% instead of completely removing it. As a stamnb without major mending we need as many healing buffs we can stack.
Yes I am. And I agree that it would *** NB really hard but what I feel the NB needs back honestly is the old dark cloak. Would make it pretty balanced imo
Kush still best NB Xbox NA I don't know anyone on xbox who wouldn't say he top tier of console.
I agree with @Minalan the fixes are simple but the forum warriors will do anything to keep there cheese following.LeifErickson wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Since I see many do not agree with me I have proposed something else ? Why not just make befoul more viable in the champion tree ? I come to these forums to make solutions not to tell people they don't know what they're talking about because I feel my build will be nerfed
The thing is we aren't dumb, we aren't noobs, and we aren't just concerned about our own builds.
I don't think you have given enough thought to identifying what you perceive as a problem and I think your proposed solution is overly narrow.
There is more to "invincible builds" than healing. Period. Yet that is the only thing you want to nerf. How in the world is that balanced? In your mind, a templar who casts a 10K breath of life is a cancer, yet the sorcerer who casts a 10K shield is somehow fine. No, sorry. You're oversimplifying. Especially since the game already provides many counters to that templar who casts a 10K breath of life and hardly any for the sorcerer who casts a 10K shield.
You just come across as one of those many many potatoes I see in cyrodiil who spam DPS skills at well known tanks and continue spamming away when it is apparent they aren't dying anytime soon - or are even a threat to your health bar.
There is already a counter in the game to these builds and it has nothing to do with the champion system: use your brain. Walk away from the perma-blocking DK or the reactive Healbot Templar and actually target other players capable of scratching your health bar.
Because most players are DPS and feel entitled to be able to kill stuff - easily apparently - even though damage being out of control, that is not somehow a "cancer" but the ability to mitigate or survive through that damage is. Not too much a bias is there? I run into those "invincible" builds every night I play and I do not have a problem at all with them, even though I am utterly incapable of killing them. I simply move on to what i deem more pressing targets. It's fine. I can't kill them and they can't kill me.
I think his point is that you use to be able to kill anyone in this game solo. Now a solo player can run into a ton of builds that he can never kill by himself. And whether or not you think that's better or worse or balanced, it doesn't change the fact that it's too easy. It's actually *** how easy it is to tank and heal in this game. I have literally taken full fear ccs with 6 people on me and lived through it on a tanky build I use to play. I even purposely took a meteor to the face along with the attacks of all the other people around me because I knew I would be fine.
A pve player at capped cp can come into pvp having never done it before and literally never die. By that I mean it takes no skill. I see more and more scrubs every day that I use to destroy but now they are literally unlikable 1v1. It is just too easy. In order to survive against another player(s), it should be because you are better than them.
^^^ This. Sure you can ignore that unkillable guy, until he's standing on a flag, or tearing up your siege. The fact is he shouldn't exist. I'm not saying "OMG DPS should be able to one shot everyone DUHHHH." I'm saying 30 minute 1v1 fights with no winner suck. I've had no less than three this week. Maybe we should be able to settle it in ten minutes or so?
The problem is block, shield stacking, and too much healing. The fixes are simple, but the forum warriors won't ever accept it. Everyone thinks that OTHER guy's only defense needs a nerf. They all do.
Metemsycosis wrote: »It's a 3v1
Blessed, elfborn, quick recovery
Vs
Befoul
It's a 3v1
Bastion, Hardy/ele defender, Pirate Skeleton, Undeath, + Elfborn + Blessed + Quick Recovery (potentially) on Resto ult cross heal and cross bubbles, etc.
vs???
Shield Breaker?
Metemsycosis wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »It's a 3v1
Blessed, elfborn, quick recovery
Vs
Befoul
It's a 3v1
Bastion, Hardy/ele defender, Pirate Skeleton, Undeath, + Elfborn + Blessed + Quick Recovery (potentially) on Resto ult cross heal and cross bubbles, etc.
vs???
Shield Breaker?
Lol
Yeah
My point is that in the CP trees damage, critical damage, dot damage, and penetration can be directly countered by other cp trees . There is a shield counter too. But I can't crit a heal debuff, now can I ?
Metemsycosis wrote: »It's a 3v1
Blessed, elfborn, quick recovery
Vs
Befoul
It's a 3v1
Bastion, Hardy/ele defender, Pirate Skeleton, Undeath, + Elfborn + Blessed + Quick Recovery (potentially) on Resto ult cross heal and cross bubbles, etc.
vs???
Shield Breaker?
LeifErickson wrote: »A pve player at capped cp can come into pvp having never done it before and literally never die. By that I mean it takes no skill. I see more and more scrubs every day that I use to destroy but now they are literally unlikable 1v1. It is just too easy. In order to survive against another player(s), it should be because you are better than them.
And yet there are numerous one shot builds available and are easy to acquire.
The problem is at both ends of the spectrum. When someone takes a single 32k Onslaught or 28k heavy inferno staff attack or 27k overload light attack, telling them the problem is they are too tanky is going to be met with skepticism.
LeifErickson wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »It's a 3v1
Blessed, elfborn, quick recovery
Vs
Befoul
It's a 3v1
Bastion, Hardy/ele defender, Pirate Skeleton, Undeath, + Elfborn + Blessed + Quick Recovery (potentially) on Resto ult cross heal and cross bubbles, etc.
vs???
Shield Breaker?
You know full well that's not fair. A magplar can survive way longer than a sorc in an upfront fight and can do way better heals than the sorc. And everything you listed off benefits a magplar as well. Sorc shields are great, but they do not scale the same as the average Cyrodiil magplar when outnumbered or outnumbering.
Metemsycosis wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »It's a 3v1
Blessed, elfborn, quick recovery
Vs
Befoul
It's a 3v1
Bastion, Hardy/ele defender, Pirate Skeleton, Undeath, + Elfborn + Blessed + Quick Recovery (potentially) on Resto ult cross heal and cross bubbles, etc.
vs???
Shield Breaker?
Lol
Yeah
My point is that in the CP trees damage, critical damage, dot damage, and penetration can be directly countered by other cp trees . There is a shield counter too. But I can't crit a heal debuff, now can I ?
Maybe that's why impen traits originally also reduced friendly crit heals? We should bring that back
LeifErickson wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »It's a 3v1
Blessed, elfborn, quick recovery
Vs
Befoul
It's a 3v1
Bastion, Hardy/ele defender, Pirate Skeleton, Undeath, + Elfborn + Blessed + Quick Recovery (potentially) on Resto ult cross heal and cross bubbles, etc.
vs???
Shield Breaker?
You know full well that's not fair. A magplar can survive way longer than a sorc in an upfront fight and can do way better heals than the sorc. And everything you listed off benefits a magplar as well. Sorc shields are great, but they do not scale the same as the average Cyrodiil magplar when outnumbered or outnumbering.
Well It'd damn well be that sorc wouldn't also have the most OP heals on top of insane shield stack or that would be broken AF.
Also - surviving longer ≠ winning an engagement. You have way better tools at your disposal to pick your fights as a sorc. So yeah - I don't see why you would compare the two.
cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »LeifErickson wrote: »Metemsycosis wrote: »It's a 3v1
Blessed, elfborn, quick recovery
Vs
Befoul
It's a 3v1
Bastion, Hardy/ele defender, Pirate Skeleton, Undeath, + Elfborn + Blessed + Quick Recovery (potentially) on Resto ult cross heal and cross bubbles, etc.
vs???
Shield Breaker?
You know full well that's not fair. A magplar can survive way longer than a sorc in an upfront fight and can do way better heals than the sorc. And everything you listed off benefits a magplar as well. Sorc shields are great, but they do not scale the same as the average Cyrodiil magplar when outnumbered or outnumbering.
Well It'd damn well be that sorc wouldn't also have the most OP heals on top of insane shield stack or that would be broken AF.
Also - surviving longer ≠ winning an engagement. You have way better tools at your disposal to pick your fights as a sorc. So yeah - I don't see why you would compare the two.
Not sure why you are trying to turn this into a nerf sorc thread when we are talking unkillable healers. Do you do that often?
Anyway, the other part of the unkillable healer is blocking. If Battle Spirit would reduce the effectiveness of block cost reduction in some way, that would go a long way to mitigating that cancer.
So the we go, a more effective heal debuff and less ability to reduce the cost of blocking in PvP. Cancer is Cured!
Kush still best NB Xbox NA I don't know anyone on xbox who wouldn't say he top tier of console.I agree with @Minalan the fixes are simple but the forum warriors will do anything to keep there cheese following.LeifErickson wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Since I see many do not agree with me I have proposed something else ? Why not just make befoul more viable in the champion tree ? I come to these forums to make solutions not to tell people they don't know what they're talking about because I feel my build will be nerfed
The thing is we aren't dumb, we aren't noobs, and we aren't just concerned about our own builds.
I don't think you have given enough thought to identifying what you perceive as a problem and I think your proposed solution is overly narrow.
There is more to "invincible builds" than healing. Period. Yet that is the only thing you want to nerf. How in the world is that balanced? In your mind, a templar who casts a 10K breath of life is a cancer, yet the sorcerer who casts a 10K shield is somehow fine. No, sorry. You're oversimplifying. Especially since the game already provides many counters to that templar who casts a 10K breath of life and hardly any for the sorcerer who casts a 10K shield.
You just come across as one of those many many potatoes I see in cyrodiil who spam DPS skills at well known tanks and continue spamming away when it is apparent they aren't dying anytime soon - or are even a threat to your health bar.
There is already a counter in the game to these builds and it has nothing to do with the champion system: use your brain. Walk away from the perma-blocking DK or the reactive Healbot Templar and actually target other players capable of scratching your health bar.
Because most players are DPS and feel entitled to be able to kill stuff - easily apparently - even though damage being out of control, that is not somehow a "cancer" but the ability to mitigate or survive through that damage is. Not too much a bias is there? I run into those "invincible" builds every night I play and I do not have a problem at all with them, even though I am utterly incapable of killing them. I simply move on to what i deem more pressing targets. It's fine. I can't kill them and they can't kill me.
I think his point is that you use to be able to kill anyone in this game solo. Now a solo player can run into a ton of builds that he can never kill by himself. And whether or not you think that's better or worse or balanced, it doesn't change the fact that it's too easy. It's actually *** how easy it is to tank and heal in this game. I have literally taken full fear ccs with 6 people on me and lived through it on a tanky build I use to play. I even purposely took a meteor to the face along with the attacks of all the other people around me because I knew I would be fine.
A pve player at capped cp can come into pvp having never done it before and literally never die. By that I mean it takes no skill. I see more and more scrubs every day that I use to destroy but now they are literally unlikable 1v1. It is just too easy. In order to survive against another player(s), it should be because you are better than them.
^^^ This. Sure you can ignore that unkillable guy, until he's standing on a flag, or tearing up your siege. The fact is he shouldn't exist. I'm not saying "OMG DPS should be able to one shot everyone DUHHHH." I'm saying 30 minute 1v1 fights with no winner suck. I've had no less than three this week. Maybe we should be able to settle it in ten minutes or so?
The problem is block, shield stacking, and too much healing. The fixes are simple, but the forum warriors won't ever accept it. Everyone thinks that OTHER guy's only defense needs a nerf. They all do.
Honestly, @Minno - in regards to block - I would love to see fully charged heavy attacks stagger blocking targets, with the addition that heavy attacks would be bashable and maybe only the melee ones would stagger.
I don't think I would like ranged stagger because then you can just make heavy attack troll stagger build from miles away - no risk and full reward. But in melee range you would be open to risk at least (ie. bashed).
The stagger effect already is in-game (dark adds wobbly orbs on twins in Maw, for example), it would just need to be attached to heavies.
You would have a counter to perma block, but be exposed to being bashed/interrupted so the other person has a counter too (while it would still drain their stam to do so).
Another "Nerf PvP but primarily hit PvE" thread. I would like it to see how you beat really hard PvE content with tanks and healers who have been deprived of Blessed. And the DDs are usually the ones that croak
Ive played with tanks with such high health and health recovery that they go afk during boss fights and just spam their taunt.
Just saying.
I bet that boss wasn't yelling "thousand cuts" at them while slashing with his axe
Honestly, @Minno - in regards to block - I would love to see fully charged heavy attacks stagger blocking targets, with the addition that heavy attacks would be bashable and maybe only the melee ones would stagger.
I don't think I would like ranged stagger because then you can just make heavy attack troll stagger build from miles away - no risk and full reward. But in melee range you would be open to risk at least (ie. bashed).
The stagger effect already is in-game (dark adds wobbly orbs on twins in Maw, for example), it would just need to be attached to heavies.
You would have a counter to perma block, but be exposed to being bashed/interrupted so the other person has a counter too (while it would still drain their stam to do so).
Turns out those healbots are not only getting a massive increase to healing power through CP, they are also practically guaranteed a critical hit on them too!
As a NB I kinda want the straight up instant heal lol.Turns out those healbots are not only getting a massive increase to healing power through CP, they are also practically guaranteed a critical hit on them too!
To me it makes sense to reduce initial healing numbers further with the expectation that crit takes you alot further on healing than with damage. Having that 50% crit chance and Templar extra 10% crit dmg means my 8k BoL will do an easy 60% extra heal. You really can't get that increase any other way. Even with a base 50%, that heal goes along way compared to fighting an enemy in full impen.
In the end, I like risk/reward as a design intent. But being able to instant cast a heal from low health to full is indeed broken. If I am at 1% health, my BoL/Dragons blood should put me back to 40% or 50% health to escape being executed. But I should require a HOT or cast time health to regain the remaining amount.
Currently sorc/NB have a health locked behind either a stat conversation or based on the damage of an enemy (or path of movement). These are more interesting than a straight up instant heal.
LeifErickson wrote: »Joy_Division wrote: »Since I see many do not agree with me I have proposed something else ? Why not just make befoul more viable in the champion tree ? I come to these forums to make solutions not to tell people they don't know what they're talking about because I feel my build will be nerfed
The thing is we aren't dumb, we aren't noobs, and we aren't just concerned about our own builds.
I don't think you have given enough thought to identifying what you perceive as a problem and I think your proposed solution is overly narrow.
There is more to "invincible builds" than healing. Period. Yet that is the only thing you want to nerf. How in the world is that balanced? In your mind, a templar who casts a 10K breath of life is a cancer, yet the sorcerer who casts a 10K shield is somehow fine. No, sorry. You're oversimplifying. Especially since the game already provides many counters to that templar who casts a 10K breath of life and hardly any for the sorcerer who casts a 10K shield.
You just come across as one of those many many potatoes I see in cyrodiil who spam DPS skills at well known tanks and continue spamming away when it is apparent they aren't dying anytime soon - or are even a threat to your health bar.
There is already a counter in the game to these builds and it has nothing to do with the champion system: use your brain. Walk away from the perma-blocking DK or the reactive Healbot Templar and actually target other players capable of scratching your health bar.
Because most players are DPS and feel entitled to be able to kill stuff - easily apparently - even though damage being out of control, that is not somehow a "cancer" but the ability to mitigate or survive through that damage is. Not too much a bias is there? I run into those "invincible" builds every night I play and I do not have a problem at all with them, even though I am utterly incapable of killing them. I simply move on to what i deem more pressing targets. It's fine. I can't kill them and they can't kill me.
I think his point is that you use to be able to kill anyone in this game solo. Now a solo player can run into a ton of builds that he can never kill by himself. And whether or not you think that's better or worse or balanced, it doesn't change the fact that it's too easy. It's actually *** how easy it is to tank and heal in this game. I have literally taken full fear ccs with 6 people on me and lived through it on a tanky build I use to play. I even purposely took a meteor to the face along with the attacks of all the other people around me because I knew I would be fine.
A pve player at capped cp can come into pvp having never done it before and literally never die. By that I mean it takes no skill. I see more and more scrubs every day that I use to destroy but now they are literally unlikable 1v1. It is just too easy. In order to survive against another player(s), it should be because you are better than them.