Mag Sorc DW vs Destro

SlowMetabolism

Gobsta wrote: »

Are console players

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Well he plays on console

Console players bad?

Just PS4 players

KisoValley

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Minalan

I use Both.

I put together a build that works with either. All I need to do is switch one piece of armor out and equip a staff. Destro for fighting in groups, and dual wield for solo and small scale.

KisoValley wrote: »

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Yeah but those 18K frags. It's fun hitting people so hard they still feel it when they respawn.

Fact is. I play two classes, sorc and MDK. You get tired of doing the same thing all of the time, so you switch it up.

I've had staff sorcs laugh at my DW build only to end up on the ground and eat 30-40K worth of instant burst. I've taken down DW sorcs on my staff build by keeping them off balance with constant pressure. It's the player, not the spec.

Derra

Minalan wrote: »

I use Both.

I put together a build that works with either. All I need to do is switch one piece of armor out and equip a staff. Destro for fighting in groups, and dual wield for solo and small scale.

KisoValley wrote: »

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Yeah but those 18K frags. It's fun hitting people so hard they still feel it when they respawn.

Fact is. I play two classes, sorc and MDK. You get tired of doing the same thing all of the time, so you switch it up.

I've had staff sorcs laugh at my DW build only to end up on the ground and eat 30-40K worth of instant burst. I've taken down DW sorcs on my staff build by keeping them off balance with constant pressure. It's the player, not the spec.

Most people don´t realize the key to fighting a DW sorc with a normal staff build is to always stay at max range while using destructive reach for shock or frost and magica cost increase poisons (different ones that stack) on both bars.

Alternatively you run a build with kena + bsw which just has more burst than a dw build while also being able to maintain pressure.

Kas

I'd prefer destro any time. The skills are versatile, weaving is incredibly strong, so are enchants (and poisons). The dw playstyle is terribly boring. However, I've lately run around a LOT with dw. If you're playing in larger (5+) groups or don't really care if you die becasue you respawn anyway, VD + grothdar + alchemist/bsw and dual wield can make for incredible damage on a destro ult.
I've run around with a FRONT bar that SCREAMS "***": streak, executer, hardened ward, inner light, bound armor (+ overload for some utility at least) and whoever fights me like this must think I know nothing about the game.

however, it's actually useful in groups (i've had 3-4 back-to-back destro ults becasue of the ult gain from killing) and if you don't care about good fights and just jump the bridge zerg over and over again. i've been hovering around 100k AP / h over the course of an entire evening basically playing like *** (buff up on OL bar, detonate, wait, pop eye of the noob, invis+immovable pot, walk into zerg, drop a wall and start streaking and executing. maybe pop a second ult if it's going well, die, respawn, repeat)

tl;dr: Dual wield robs you of so many things that are fun about sorc. However, the damage boost (especially if also also count the extra item for possible sets) is big. if you choose a certain style that fits it, dw can make you very successful.

Personally, I've been more successful playing terribly with dw than playing as good as i could. As a consequence, I'm not playing too much at all, atm and really hoping for the next patch and the pts.

KisoValley

Minalan wrote: »

I use Both.

I put together a build that works with either. All I need to do is switch one piece of armor out and equip a staff. Destro for fighting in groups, and dual wield for solo and small scale.

KisoValley wrote: »

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Yeah but those 18K frags. It's fun hitting people so hard they still feel it when they respawn.

Fact is. I play two classes, sorc and MDK. You get tired of doing the same thing all of the time, so you switch it up.

I've had staff sorcs laugh at my DW build only to end up on the ground and eat 30-40K worth of instant burst. I've taken down DW sorcs on my staff build by keeping them off balance with constant pressure. It's the player, not the spec.

I play every class (apart from stamblade) and can block/dodge roll frags easily because I stay at a decent enough range to be able to see frags inc even if its a procced frag. Even on my main, stamdk, melee range I'm able to see a frag inc because I play smart.

If people don't play smart then it's another matter

Minalan

KisoValley wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I use Both.

I put together a build that works with either. All I need to do is switch one piece of armor out and equip a staff. Destro for fighting in groups, and dual wield for solo and small scale.

KisoValley wrote: »

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Yeah but those 18K frags. It's fun hitting people so hard they still feel it when they respawn.

Fact is. I play two classes, sorc and MDK. You get tired of doing the same thing all of the time, so you switch it up.

I've had staff sorcs laugh at my DW build only to end up on the ground and eat 30-40K worth of instant burst. I've taken down DW sorcs on my staff build by keeping them off balance with constant pressure. It's the player, not the spec.

I play every class (apart from stamblade) and can block/dodge roll frags easily because I stay at a decent enough range to be able to see frags inc even if its a procced frag. Even on my main, stamdk, melee range I'm able to see a frag inc because I play smart.

If people don't play smart then it's another matter

I had a guy doing that last night. So I started cancelling the proc'ed frag animations. They hit instantly and you don't see anything coming anymore. I only hard cast when you're on the ground. I'd also do a second entropy when the hands glow to make him blow a dodge roll, then animation cancel frag after a three count.

The magicka NB I fought was way better than me. I couldn't beat him without mines because he would get into point blank range and stay right behind me where I couldn't shoot back. So.. mines it was. No more of that. He used destructive reach like clockwork every five seconds, I had to stagger-stack shields to stay alive through his assassinate combo.

Why is he sharing his secrets precious? Why is he? Shut up! Stop it! Gollum! Gollum!

Odd enough I lost all of my staff duels last night handily. I am no good at spamming dozens of attacks in a few seconds, animation cancelling all of them, weaving every attack with a light. and keeping two shields up. I'm practicing some, but some of you guys are way way better at it.

Mayrael

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Minalan

Trainee, Spinner, and a 1 pc max magicka monster set.

I'm running over people in PvP with this build.

27k health, 47k magicka front bar (only inner light), 51k Magicka (Will power sword and board! If not master resto), 14k stamina, Atronach, 1200 recovery as a Breton. Dual stat health Magicka food.

I cannot push this build on this forums anymore than I already have. It's by far the best offensive/defensive build I've ever theory crafted.

Nice but runs out of gas to quick, you wont go through more tanky builds before running out of magica. Ive tried setups like this and its good against newbies, but any experienced player will survie your burst and you will end without resources and pushed to defending. With Lich its a bit better, but still its not the same as good constant sustain and presure. Its just my personal experience, and as for now more balanced setup works for me much much better than this giant on feet of clay. But its just me, and yes, Im totaly nobody, I dont make streams, I dont theory craft, I dont have blog, all I do is PvP.

Asardes

With swords you can't weave light attacks at targets affected by elemental drain to gain back magicka. Thus you have to stack more magicka regeneration to compensate. Which means you can't stack more spell damage. The only class where 2W swords is really advantageous is Templar, where you can just stay on your focus and spam puncturing, even if your regeneration is low. Maybe NB, where you have siphoning attacks and you can weave light attacks with the swords from melee range - which is rather risky on mageblade because it's squishier than other classes. But for sorc and DK destro/destro staff setup is much better IMO. The only scenario where you may get better damage with swords is if you use energy overload a lot, and recoup trough that. But that raises the question where you get the ult, unless staying in melee range and weaving with swords.

Biro123

Asardes wrote: »

With swords you can't weave light attacks at targets affected by elemental drain to gain back magicka. Thus you have to stack more magicka regeneration to compensate. Which means you can't stack more spell damage. The only class where 2W swords is really advantageous is Templar, where you can just stay on your focus and spam puncturing, even if your regeneration is low. Maybe NB, where you have siphoning attacks and you can weave light attacks with the swords from melee range - which is rather risky on mageblade because it's squishier than other classes. But for sorc and DK destro/destro staff setup is much better IMO. The only scenario where you may get better damage with swords is if you use energy overload a lot, and recoup trough that. But that raises the question where you get the ult, unless staying in melee range and weaving with swords.

I don't use ele drian on mine. Just don't have the slots - but even so, with Lich, and a single cost-reduction glyph, I find sustain is *almost* 100% - thats with a lot of shield spamming. For really protracted fights, ( I mean *really* protracted - generally many vs many - just throwing in the odd resto heavy (or as you say overloads), or the odd crappy mag pot makes up the defecit (which is easy to do in a many vs many setup).

Without destro, there is no constant spamming of pulse. As part of your rotation, you have wrath which is cheaper, degeneration, which is VERY cheap - and procced frags are fairly cheap too, so you don't really need as much regen for DW, imho.

For Ulti generation, I had that problem too - till I took some advice from a couple of people here - around starting the rotation with a resto light attack/curse on the back bar.

Regardless if which is stronger in what instances, I play dual wield for 2 reasons..

1. I much prefer the effects and sounds from wrath/curse/frags than the really dull force pulse effects.
2. Whenever I try destro/resto I always get mixed up which bar I'm on and often end up streaking out of a window (which nobody likes to see!)

Jsmalls

Mayrael wrote: »

Jsmalls wrote: »

@Minalan

Trainee, Spinner, and a 1 pc max magicka monster set.

I'm running over people in PvP with this build.

27k health, 47k magicka front bar (only inner light), 51k Magicka (Will power sword and board! If not master resto), 14k stamina, Atronach, 1200 recovery as a Breton. Dual stat health Magicka food.

I cannot push this build on this forums anymore than I already have. It's by far the best offensive/defensive build I've ever theory crafted.

Nice but runs out of gas to quick, you wont go through more tanky builds before running out of magica. Ive tried setups like this and its good against newbies, but any experienced player will survie your burst and you will end without resources and pushed to defending. With Lich its a bit better, but still its not the same as good constant sustain and presure. Its just my personal experience, and as for now more balanced setup works for me much much better than this giant on feet of clay. But its just me, and yes, Im totaly nobody, I dont make streams, I dont theory craft, I dont have blog, all I do is PvP.

I use it as a Open world PvP build, harness Magicka is an amazing skill, and with it you can sustain indefinitely with the lowest of recovery. Just requires at least one magicka build attacking you.

Against an entire group of Stamina users it'll eventually run out of resource's if you don't use Magicka pots or weave in heavy attacks occasionally, but the majority of the time its not like that.

Everyone has issues with tanky builds because they go against the "Norm" of PvP. I usually just ignore them or save them until last. You can work in heavy attacks much easier against tanky builds due to their low burst nature. Endless, curse, heavy destro into a frag wears them down quite a bit, and generates most of your used resources back.

I'm a firm believer that you don't need 2000 recovery to be effective in PvP. You just need to know how to play your character. I die to lack of Stamina, over whelming numbers, root spam, 30k damage bursts, and other things a lot more than lack of Magicka sustain. I think anything above 1200 recovery is a waste as you are taking from other pools at that point (Lich's 2x recovery, then another 1500 recovery is fun, but unless you're streaking into the sunset... It's a bit unnecessary)

But I think it's a learning process also, you can't jump onto a Magicka or Stamina character with low recovery and prosper. You gradually learn how to lower your recovery and be successful. Also dropping healing ward helps immensely. That spell is so expensive...

In duels a 5 minute fight I'll definitely be out of resources ( if I don't eat the max magicka and Magicka recovery food, which I will if the fight is dragging on), open world though, sustain is not an issue for me, and I'll hold off 4 to 5 people for several minutes easily.

KisoValley

Minalan wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I use Both.

I put together a build that works with either. All I need to do is switch one piece of armor out and equip a staff. Destro for fighting in groups, and dual wield for solo and small scale.

KisoValley wrote: »

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Yeah but those 18K frags. It's fun hitting people so hard they still feel it when they respawn.

Fact is. I play two classes, sorc and MDK. You get tired of doing the same thing all of the time, so you switch it up.

I've had staff sorcs laugh at my DW build only to end up on the ground and eat 30-40K worth of instant burst. I've taken down DW sorcs on my staff build by keeping them off balance with constant pressure. It's the player, not the spec.

I play every class (apart from stamblade) and can block/dodge roll frags easily because I stay at a decent enough range to be able to see frags inc even if its a procced frag. Even on my main, stamdk, melee range I'm able to see a frag inc because I play smart.

If people don't play smart then it's another matter

I had a guy doing that last night. So I started cancelling the proc'ed frag animations. They hit instantly and you don't see anything coming anymore. I only hard cast when you're on the ground. I'd also do a second entropy when the hands glow to make him blow a dodge roll, then animation cancel frag after a three count.

The magicka NB I fought was way better than me. I couldn't beat him without mines because he would get into point blank range and stay right behind me where I couldn't shoot back. So.. mines it was. No more of that. He used destructive reach like clockwork every five seconds, I had to stagger-stack shields to stay alive through his assassinate combo.

Why is he sharing his secrets precious? Why is he? Shut up! Stop it! Gollum! Gollum!

Odd enough I lost all of my staff duels last night handily. I am no good at spamming dozens of attacks in a few seconds, animation cancelling all of them, weaving every attack with a light. and keeping two shields up. I'm practicing some, but some of you guys are way way better at it.

How do you have your bars set up when playing destro sorc? I changed my setup this patch due to the # of proc sets + the delay on bar swapping that was introduced. It's helped me a lot.

At first I moved my hardened wars to my destro bar, moving boundless storm to my resto bar. That helped me a lot, but now I'm trying something even more 'weird' for a sorc in terms of my bars. I'm finding a lot of success in it though.

Minalan

KisoValley wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I use Both.

I put together a build that works with either. All I need to do is switch one piece of armor out and equip a staff. Destro for fighting in groups, and dual wield for solo and small scale.

KisoValley wrote: »

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Yeah but those 18K frags. It's fun hitting people so hard they still feel it when they respawn.

Fact is. I play two classes, sorc and MDK. You get tired of doing the same thing all of the time, so you switch it up.

I've had staff sorcs laugh at my DW build only to end up on the ground and eat 30-40K worth of instant burst. I've taken down DW sorcs on my staff build by keeping them off balance with constant pressure. It's the player, not the spec.

I play every class (apart from stamblade) and can block/dodge roll frags easily because I stay at a decent enough range to be able to see frags inc even if its a procced frag. Even on my main, stamdk, melee range I'm able to see a frag inc because I play smart.

If people don't play smart then it's another matter

I had a guy doing that last night. So I started cancelling the proc'ed frag animations. They hit instantly and you don't see anything coming anymore. I only hard cast when you're on the ground. I'd also do a second entropy when the hands glow to make him blow a dodge roll, then animation cancel frag after a three count.

The magicka NB I fought was way better than me. I couldn't beat him without mines because he would get into point blank range and stay right behind me where I couldn't shoot back. So.. mines it was. No more of that. He used destructive reach like clockwork every five seconds, I had to stagger-stack shields to stay alive through his assassinate combo.

Why is he sharing his secrets precious? Why is he? Shut up! Stop it! Gollum! Gollum!

Odd enough I lost all of my staff duels last night handily. I am no good at spamming dozens of attacks in a few seconds, animation cancelling all of them, weaving every attack with a light. and keeping two shields up. I'm practicing some, but some of you guys are way way better at it.

How do you have your bars set up when playing destro sorc? I changed my setup this patch due to the # of proc sets + the delay on bar swapping that was introduced. It's helped me a lot.

At first I moved my hardened wars to my destro bar, moving boundless storm to my resto bar. That helped me a lot, but now I'm trying something even more 'weird' for a sorc in terms of my bars. I'm finding a lot of success in it though.

TBH my destro setup is mostly for group support these days. It doesn't work when you don't have twenty other guys with you, but coordinated TS group play is how you win the map.

It's nothing special, mostly utility: Negate. Destro Ultimate. Encase spam. Destructive fire reach to knock someone down for the stam guys to catch.

You spend your time building ultimate. When Crown calls for a negate on the flag, deliver it, then keep them inside with encase. The gameplay isn't exciting at all, but that's Cyrodiil today.

KisoValley

Minalan wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

KisoValley wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

I use Both.

I put together a build that works with either. All I need to do is switch one piece of armor out and equip a staff. Destro for fighting in groups, and dual wield for solo and small scale.

KisoValley wrote: »

Destro

Tried both and destro for sure. I've never lost to a DW sorc cause they have 1 shot at burst then have to delay. I feel much more comfortable fighting that because of the lack of sustained pressure. It's burst potential is much higher I agree, but much easier to fight against too.

Yeah but those 18K frags. It's fun hitting people so hard they still feel it when they respawn.

Fact is. I play two classes, sorc and MDK. You get tired of doing the same thing all of the time, so you switch it up.

I've had staff sorcs laugh at my DW build only to end up on the ground and eat 30-40K worth of instant burst. I've taken down DW sorcs on my staff build by keeping them off balance with constant pressure. It's the player, not the spec.

I play every class (apart from stamblade) and can block/dodge roll frags easily because I stay at a decent enough range to be able to see frags inc even if its a procced frag. Even on my main, stamdk, melee range I'm able to see a frag inc because I play smart.

If people don't play smart then it's another matter

I had a guy doing that last night. So I started cancelling the proc'ed frag animations. They hit instantly and you don't see anything coming anymore. I only hard cast when you're on the ground. I'd also do a second entropy when the hands glow to make him blow a dodge roll, then animation cancel frag after a three count.

The magicka NB I fought was way better than me. I couldn't beat him without mines because he would get into point blank range and stay right behind me where I couldn't shoot back. So.. mines it was. No more of that. He used destructive reach like clockwork every five seconds, I had to stagger-stack shields to stay alive through his assassinate combo.

Why is he sharing his secrets precious? Why is he? Shut up! Stop it! Gollum! Gollum!

Odd enough I lost all of my staff duels last night handily. I am no good at spamming dozens of attacks in a few seconds, animation cancelling all of them, weaving every attack with a light. and keeping two shields up. I'm practicing some, but some of you guys are way way better at it.

How do you have your bars set up when playing destro sorc? I changed my setup this patch due to the # of proc sets + the delay on bar swapping that was introduced. It's helped me a lot.

At first I moved my hardened wars to my destro bar, moving boundless storm to my resto bar. That helped me a lot, but now I'm trying something even more 'weird' for a sorc in terms of my bars. I'm finding a lot of success in it though.

TBH my destro setup is mostly for group support these days. It doesn't work when you don't have twenty other guys with you, but coordinated TS group play is how you win the map.

It's nothing special, mostly utility: Negate. Destro Ultimate. Encase spam. Destructive fire reach to knock someone down for the stam guys to catch.

You spend your time building ultimate. When Crown calls for a negate on the flag, deliver it, then keep them inside with encase. The gameplay isn't exciting at all, but that's Cyrodiil today.

Ah okay. I know how to play group, was wondering more your dueling/small scale setup.

Izaki

Dual Wield > Destro. More fun, more challenging, more rewarding. Less boring too. If you're built properly and know what you're doing you'll do much better than a staff build.

@Jsmalls I have 51k magicka on my DW bar (just Inner Light) and the lich for recovery and the shadow mundus for insane burst. Think harder you can maximise your build way more.

For mag classes: Sorc = burst. NB, Temp, DK = sustained pressure. Imho at least.

Force Pulse is only good in PvE because it benefits from group buffs, in PvP its a magicka sink that does around 4.5k damage at best with the usual sorc meta build.

The only time where a staff sorc is better than a DW sorc is in duels. And the only time a sorc is truely OP in duels, is a DW pet sorc.

Jsmalls

@IzakiBrotheSs

I'm terrible with dual wield, and it also doesn't allow me to use S&B on my back bar which I thoroughly enjoy (need constant pressure with destro for surge heal ticks) and it would pigeon hole me back into using a resto which I haven't used since shadows of the hist dlc released.

100% agree with you that Sorcs = Burst.

Don't even slot force pulse, I use endless fury in its place. Our bars are probably exactly the same on the front, but I use streak in place of entropy. I like using it offensively to finish the burst (Endless, curse, medium to heavy destro, frag, and streak can hit for 25k easily with boundless and streak giving the potential for implosion to proc).

Also, empowered heavy attack into a frag and execute is a lot of fun from stealth to help get the edge on a group.