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[IN PROGRESS] PlayStation®: EU megaserver for maintenance – November 19, 23:00 UTC (6:00PM EST) - November 20, 17:00 UTC (12:00PM EST) https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/668861
Does Vigor have a magika morph?
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Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »
Healing ward. 6 seconds, has a huge damage shield, cost 3k magicka. Better than Vigor IMO.
That's fine till executes... I do love an opponent using wards while in execute range, I know they're gonna run outta magicka before me... just a matter of time
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rteezy✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »
Healing ward. 6 seconds, has a huge damage shield, cost 3k magicka. Better than Vigor IMO.
wrong...
healing ward ranK IV costs 3900 mag absorbs 4k damage (which MIGHT get buffed if you ar einjured)
u also have ZERO control over WHO the wards is going on if ur in a gorup..
So it costs double..absorbs 1/4 th of what vigor heals AND you are NEVER sure its gona go on you
you ALSO fail at understanding how vigor preemptive beats ANY mag heal or absorb..
do you STILL want to compare?2 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Stamina has one heal and Magicka has many. Pick your poison.
It does? Cuz I have dark conversion...oh wait rally? Vigor? Blood craze? Rendering Slashes? Or combat prayer? Or grand horrible healing spell? Or horrible 300 hps HoT?
Oh the 2k heal associated with healing ward?
Jk, resto staff sucks2 -
Sureshawt✭✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Stamina has one heal and Magicka has many. Pick your poison.
It does? Cuz I have dark conversion...oh wait rally? Vigor? Blood craze? Rendering Slashes? Or combat prayer? Or grand horrible healing spell? Or horrible 300 hps HoT?
Oh the 2k heal associated with healing ward?
Jk, resto staff sucks
Comon man you are comparing abilities that have to hit an enemy or in the case of dark conversion a class based skill. I did forget about rally.
Resto staff heals may not be better one on one but in terms of stacking different heals Resto is far better then rally or vigor. There are choices to be made.
Do we really want to dumb the game down to where no hard choices need to be made? If you go stamina you pretty much give up any kind of shield stacking. Should we make stamina able to shield stack?
If so why don't we just get rid of magicka/stamina altogether and just have one resource pool + health and call it energy or something. This way we can just dumb the game down to pew pew.
Edited by Sureshawt on 16 December 2016 22:130 -
rteezy✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Stamina has one heal and Magicka has many. Pick your poison.
It does? Cuz I have dark conversion...oh wait rally? Vigor? Blood craze? Rendering Slashes? Or combat prayer? Or grand horrible healing spell? Or horrible 300 hps HoT?
Oh the 2k heal associated with healing ward?
Jk, resto staff sucks
Comon man you are comparing abilities that have to hit an enemy or in the case of dark conversion a class based skill. I did forget about rally.
Resto staff heals may not be better one on one but in terms of stacking different heals Resto is far better then rally or vigor. There are choices to be made.
Do we really want to dumb the game down to where no hard choices need to be made? If you go stamina you pretty much give any kind shield stacking. Should we make stamina able to shield stack?
If so why don't we just get rid of magicka/stamina altogether and just have one resource pool + health and call it energy or something. This way we can just dumb the game down to pew pew.
hard choices?
what choices lmao?
u chosoe between a stam build and are almost positive certain you will end up in the meta sphere..
OR you choice a mag build and accept that, if youd otn take a destro staff and use the broken ulti your ar pretty munch gimped compared to ANY stam build.
NOT much of a choice there.
ONE of the issues for the huge gap between stamina and magika builds is the sustainability and survivability that vigor offers.
What chcoies do you have?none..vigor is sjut too strong not to take
What choices do we have as magika? a few, they are ALL sub par compared to vigor..NONE offers as much hps, for sucha little cost AND allows you to sue it preemptively freeing tiem for you to keep dpsing.
Want an example of how it woudl look liek in reverse?
LEts imagine vigor was not a hot over 5 seconds but a 1 tic direct heal of 7k for 4 k stam (so, half the healing for double the cost, and no more preemptive use)
and MAGIKA had a WARD that absorbed a total of 15 k, auto refreshed over 5 secs for 2k mag.How do you think that would play out?
i can tell you, you WOULDNT be abel to use vigor as part of yoru roation anymroe because you woudl run out of stam and the heal vs cost was just not worth it, and magika on the other hand, woudl have that ward as part of their dps rotation.
and then, when you inquired abotu this unbalance, i woudl tell you "but hey, you do have class speciofic heals, i dont see the problem, jsut MAKE YOUR CHOICE.1 -
nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭Magicka users have shields, resto staffs and class heals. Vigor was added to balance the equation for the lack of stamina based heals that plagued early gameplay.I didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.0 -
omfgitsbatman✭✭✭✭
Are you reading your own thread?He's the healer Tamriel deserves, but not the one it needs right now. So we'll hurt his tank. Because he can heal them to full. Because he's not our hero. He's a silent guardian, a watchful rejuvinator. A Cloaked Healer.
@Omfgitsbatman PC/NA
Ticktick-Argonian Nightblade Healer/Magicka DPS
Tinytick- Imperial DK Tank
Wuches Y'Shaur- V16 High Elf Sorc Magicka DPS
Ticktator- Dunmer DK Magicka DPS
Tick Head- Dark Elf Magicka NB DPS
GM:
Mercs Of Sovngarde (EP/NA): AA (HM), HRC (HM), VSO (HM), VDSA, VMSA complete
Vet Maw 4/52 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »Magicka users have shields, resto staffs and class heals. Vigor was added to balance the equation for the lack of stamina based heals that plagued early gameplay.
Not all magika classes have shields.
Resto staff has 1 decent ability, that uses a shield to rate a heal, gimped by heavy cuz no bastion points.
Lets say Rally was in this new skill line called "soft fluffy bunny punches" where all the abilities where crap except one morph of one ability. Now thats 50% of your bar space only class abilities, limiting your melee combat to "soft fluffy bunny punches" because the back bar you run Bow. Bow has OP abilities, so you like bow. You get wreckt everytime someone crit charges you because you have a Bow or bunny punches to defend yourself.1 -
Joy_Division✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »
Healing ward. 6 seconds, has a huge damage shield, cost 3k magicka. Better than Vigor IMO.
It is, but not nearly as versatile since you need to use a crummy resto stff.0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Mag DK will be getting lots of buffs next patch according to ZOS.
Chances are they may even be OP
Either way don't worry too much about wanting a Magicka Vigor. Dragon's Blood will likely be one of the targets of next patch's buffs .0 -
Vaoh✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭thankyourat wrote: »I couldn't even imagine a magsorc with vigor. It would be unkillable
Mag Sorc would benefit the least
They are the only pure shield-based spec in Cyrodiil. You could run Heavy Armor+Surge, but then to rely on Crits? Magicka Sorcs would not do this.0 -
cschwingeb14_ESO✭✭✭✭Casting a 12k shield is effectively no different from casting a 12k honor the dead
You can't be serious
Just in case you are, let's remind everyone that blocking, impen, resistance, and +% healing taken all have a synergy with healing and health pool size that damage shields do not share. All of this increases your effective health pool much more that a 12k shield does
Damage shield have an effective 100% impen, and they increase your effective health pool by a small amount.
Large damage shields also require Bastion. Which means less Hardy or Ele resistance via CP2 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭cschwingeb14_ESO wrote: »Casting a 12k shield is effectively no different from casting a 12k honor the dead
You can't be serious
Just in case you are, let's remind everyone that blocking, impen, resistance, and +% healing taken all have a synergy with healing and health pool size that damage shields do not share. All of this increases your effective health pool much more that a 12k shield does
Damage shield have an effective 100% impen, and they increase your effective health pool by a small amount.
Large damage shields also require Bastion. Which means less Hardy or Ele resistance via CP
Can you crit a shield? How does the mitigation of a shield compare to light armor that can be crit and is usually penetrated anyway?PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
ManDraKE✭✭✭✭✭
✭Waffennacht wrote: »Plus vigor is Passive healing! All wards and heals require the cast. With vigor you can keep it up prior to being in execute range, you can cast it and go ham while it's ticking.
shields are inmune to crit and penetration, your forgot that "small" detail.
Edited by ManDraKE on 21 December 2016 14:240 -
Lord-Otto✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Waffennacht wrote: »Plus vigor is Passive healing! All wards and heals require the cast. With vigor you can keep it up prior to being in execute range, you can cast it and go ham while it's ticking.
shields are inmune to crit and penetration, your forgot that "small" detail.
Yup, because shields have no armor to be penetrated to begin with, and can't crit themselves for 50% stronger effect, like healing.0 -
Waffennacht✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭You do realize there is NO armor rating for shields, so they take the full amount of damage. - you're dealing more damage to shields than a player.
So if you have 22k resistance your 5k heal is the equivalent of a 7k shield (roughly)
This also doesn't factor in major or minor vitality and mending etc
At higher resistance a heal is better than a ward at the same amount.
They're pretty equal except one is Passive and Active (now)
I still think a ward + vigor (if both were good) would be OP0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »This thread is seriously full of stupid.
Yup. They keep talking, but dont know what they are talking about.Waffennacht wrote: »You do realize there is NO armor rating for shields, so they take the full amount of damage. - you're dealing more damage to shields than a player.
So if you have 22k resistance your 5k heal is the equivalent of a 7k shield (roughly)
This also doesn't factor in major or minor vitality and mending etc
At higher resistance a heal is better than a ward at the same amount.
They're pretty equal except one is Passive and Active (now)
I still think a ward + vigor (if both were good) would be OP
This is what i think the issue would be. Ward+vigor+streak would be great, probably OP. But you know what actually IS OP? Shields getting nuked with no resistance. A light attack/ransack or LA/Suprise attack and bye bye shield, even stacking healing ward after dampen magika gets nuked (when it works). Glad you made that point.
Sorcs might not have an issue because they can actually peel somewhat, but the templars and dks are stuck getting hammered on. Couple ways to approach this really but the easiest is DB being great again, or a magika vigor (mod% by Heavy armor?)
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AverageJo3Gam3r✭✭✭✭✭It's called healing ward
But in all seriousness, I have no issues with healing on my mDK. Embers for single target, deep breath for 1vX. But then again, I'm an argonian and frequently run vitality pots to stack with coagulating blood and igneous shield.
The main thing is to keep heals coming in so that a burst heal is unnecessary. Flame lash, embers, deep breath, battle roar, etc.0 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »This thread is seriously full of stupid.
Yup. They keep talking, but dont know what they are talking about.Waffennacht wrote: »You do realize there is NO armor rating for shields, so they take the full amount of damage. - you're dealing more damage to shields than a player.
So if you have 22k resistance your 5k heal is the equivalent of a 7k shield (roughly)
This also doesn't factor in major or minor vitality and mending etc
At higher resistance a heal is better than a ward at the same amount.
They're pretty equal except one is Passive and Active (now)
I still think a ward + vigor (if both were good) would be OP
This is what i think the issue would be. Ward+vigor+streak would be great, probably OP. But you know what actually IS OP? Shields getting nuked with no resistance. A light attack/ransack or LA/Suprise attack and bye bye shield, even stacking healing ward after dampen magika gets nuked (when it works). Glad you made that point.
Sorcs might not have an issue because they can actually peel somewhat, but the templars and dks are stuck getting hammered on. Couple ways to approach this really but the easiest is DB being great again, or a magika vigor (mod% by Heavy armor?)
It should also be considered that major/minor protection and CP damage reduction passives work on shields, and that crits do not work on them. Armor is often penetrated to extreme degrees by the large amount of players using Spriggan/Spinner sets, so it's not exactly the most reliable damage reduction unless you are going full-on tank with 30k resists.
While I do agree that a 10k shield is often and generally less valuable than 10k health, it's not as bad as it's being made out to be. My noncrit surprise attacks on a very high attack power clever alchemist build usually hit shields for ~5-6k. If it were a crit vs a 2000 crit resist target with ~20k armor, It would be more in the 7-9k range.Edited by Kutsuu on 26 December 2016 18:01PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0 -
Lokey0024✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »This thread is seriously full of stupid.
Yup. They keep talking, but dont know what they are talking about.Waffennacht wrote: »You do realize there is NO armor rating for shields, so they take the full amount of damage. - you're dealing more damage to shields than a player.
So if you have 22k resistance your 5k heal is the equivalent of a 7k shield (roughly)
This also doesn't factor in major or minor vitality and mending etc
At higher resistance a heal is better than a ward at the same amount.
They're pretty equal except one is Passive and Active (now)
I still think a ward + vigor (if both were good) would be OP
This is what i think the issue would be. Ward+vigor+streak would be great, probably OP. But you know what actually IS OP? Shields getting nuked with no resistance. A light attack/ransack or LA/Suprise attack and bye bye shield, even stacking healing ward after dampen magika gets nuked (when it works). Glad you made that point.
Sorcs might not have an issue because they can actually peel somewhat, but the templars and dks are stuck getting hammered on. Couple ways to approach this really but the easiest is DB being great again, or a magika vigor (mod% by Heavy armor?)
It should also be considered that major/minor protection and CP damage reduction passives work on shields, and that crits do not work on them. Armor is often penetrated to extreme degrees by the large amount of players using Spriggan/Spinner sets, so it's not exactly the most reliable damage reduction unless you are going full-on tank with 30k resists.
While I do agree that a 10k shield is often and generally less valuable than 10k health, it's not as bad as it's being made out to be. My noncrit surprise attacks on a very high attack power clever alchemist build usually hit shields for ~5-6k. If it were a crit vs a 2000 crit resist target with ~20k armor, It would be more in the 7-9k range.
Shields crit resist aside, having to slot a shield, a heal, and a backbar weapon is dumb to just heal. If had to use SnB for rally you might understand better. Some wouldnt mind, but what will you use for dmg? 2h Execute? No range build? Very limiting.Edited by Lokey0024 on 26 December 2016 18:570 -
Kutsuu✭✭✭✭✭exeeter702 wrote: »This thread is seriously full of stupid.
Yup. They keep talking, but dont know what they are talking about.Waffennacht wrote: »You do realize there is NO armor rating for shields, so they take the full amount of damage. - you're dealing more damage to shields than a player.
So if you have 22k resistance your 5k heal is the equivalent of a 7k shield (roughly)
This also doesn't factor in major or minor vitality and mending etc
At higher resistance a heal is better than a ward at the same amount.
They're pretty equal except one is Passive and Active (now)
I still think a ward + vigor (if both were good) would be OP
This is what i think the issue would be. Ward+vigor+streak would be great, probably OP. But you know what actually IS OP? Shields getting nuked with no resistance. A light attack/ransack or LA/Suprise attack and bye bye shield, even stacking healing ward after dampen magika gets nuked (when it works). Glad you made that point.
Sorcs might not have an issue because they can actually peel somewhat, but the templars and dks are stuck getting hammered on. Couple ways to approach this really but the easiest is DB being great again, or a magika vigor (mod% by Heavy armor?)
It should also be considered that major/minor protection and CP damage reduction passives work on shields, and that crits do not work on them. Armor is often penetrated to extreme degrees by the large amount of players using Spriggan/Spinner sets, so it's not exactly the most reliable damage reduction unless you are going full-on tank with 30k resists.
While I do agree that a 10k shield is often and generally less valuable than 10k health, it's not as bad as it's being made out to be. My noncrit surprise attacks on a very high attack power clever alchemist build usually hit shields for ~5-6k. If it were a crit vs a 2000 crit resist target with ~20k armor, It would be more in the 7-9k range.
Shields crit resist aside, having to slot a shield, a heal, and a backbar weapon is dumb to just heal. If had to use SnB for rally you might understand better. Some wouldnt mind, but what will you use for dmg? 2h Execute? No range build? Very limiting.
Rally on SnB would be a dream come true for me, so your example doesn't work too well in my case. 1h/shield + bow build!? Yes PLEASE.PC/NA
Envy Me - Sorc
Kutsus - NB
Kutsmuffin - Temp
Kutsuu the Destroyer - NB
Kutsuu - Temp
Natsu Dragoneel - DK
Kutsumo - NB0
