Does Vigor have a magika morph?

rteezy

if not..Why?!?!?

its such a strong heal..and as a magdk i feel like i lack healing options, whiel every stam build jsut spams vigor all the time

Minalan

Gawd if I had a magicka vigor I'd drop my resto staff like a bad habit. Dual wield and fire destro build...

A sorc can dream can't he?

NBrookus

No. Because reasons.

Gilliamtherogue

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Vogtard

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Harness Magicka is actually the perfect reason for Vigor to be magicka based. Nerfed shields work as a buffer/panic button now, not a full ongoing protection. Buffer + regen under it is the trick.
Without the necessity to carry the crappy resto staff. Resto staff is for a healer - most of its skills are aimed at supporting others. For this purpose it works fine. However, even Healing Ward and Mutagen are not reliable for self heals.

I don't mind that stamina builds have such a nice heal but it would only be fair if there was a magicka equivalent, without limiting the weapon selection.
IF it was supposed to be comparable with Dark Deal (fair comparison imo), Vigor should have a cast time.

omfgitsbatman

Oh god.... Why doesn't destro ult have a stam morph? Or prox det a stamina one? How about caltrops?

....

Not every skill needs to be both stam or magicka. Generally speaking, magicka classes have pently of heals available to them, why would you need another heal skill?

Asmael

Dragon Blood.

...Once they fix it that is...

Kutsuu

Vogtard wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Harness Magicka is actually the perfect reason for Vigor to be magicka based. Nerfed shields work as a buffer/panic button now, not a full ongoing protection. Buffer + regen under it is the trick.
Without the necessity to carry the crappy resto staff. Resto staff is for a healer - most of its skills are aimed at supporting others. For this purpose it works fine. However, even Healing Ward and Mutagen are not reliable for self heals.

I don't mind that stamina builds have such a nice heal but it would only be fair if there was a magicka equivalent, without limiting the weapon selection.
IF it was supposed to be comparable with Dark Deal (fair comparison imo), Vigor should have a cast time.

Oh come now Harness Magicka is nerfed, when it's now on more skill bars than it ever has been since it works against all damage types?

If you think it's fair that magicka builds should have identical heals to stamina builds, then I suppose you also think it's fair that stamina builds have shields equivalent with magicka builds right? I mean they're so nerfed it wouldn't change a thing to give stam some shields... right?

omfgitsbatman

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vogtard wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Harness Magicka is actually the perfect reason for Vigor to be magicka based. Nerfed shields work as a buffer/panic button now, not a full ongoing protection. Buffer + regen under it is the trick.
Without the necessity to carry the crappy resto staff. Resto staff is for a healer - most of its skills are aimed at supporting others. For this purpose it works fine. However, even Healing Ward and Mutagen are not reliable for self heals.

I don't mind that stamina builds have such a nice heal but it would only be fair if there was a magicka equivalent, without limiting the weapon selection.
IF it was supposed to be comparable with Dark Deal (fair comparison imo), Vigor should have a cast time.

Oh come now Harness Magicka is nerfed, when it's now on more skill bars than it ever has been since it works against all damage types?

If you think it's fair that magicka builds should have identical heals to stamina builds, then I suppose you also think it's fair that stamina builds have shields equivalent with magicka builds right? I mean they're so nerfed it wouldn't change a thing to give stam some shields... right?

How about magicka based dodge rolling and sprint? and I'll say it again, mag caltrops

Kutsuu

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vogtard wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Harness Magicka is actually the perfect reason for Vigor to be magicka based. Nerfed shields work as a buffer/panic button now, not a full ongoing protection. Buffer + regen under it is the trick.
Without the necessity to carry the crappy resto staff. Resto staff is for a healer - most of its skills are aimed at supporting others. For this purpose it works fine. However, even Healing Ward and Mutagen are not reliable for self heals.

I don't mind that stamina builds have such a nice heal but it would only be fair if there was a magicka equivalent, without limiting the weapon selection.
IF it was supposed to be comparable with Dark Deal (fair comparison imo), Vigor should have a cast time.

Oh come now Harness Magicka is nerfed, when it's now on more skill bars than it ever has been since it works against all damage types?

If you think it's fair that magicka builds should have identical heals to stamina builds, then I suppose you also think it's fair that stamina builds have shields equivalent with magicka builds right? I mean they're so nerfed it wouldn't change a thing to give stam some shields... right?

How about magicka based dodge rolling and sprint? and I'll say it again, mag caltrops

Dude you forgot block. I see your obvious stam bias sticking out.

Vogtard

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vogtard wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Harness Magicka is actually the perfect reason for Vigor to be magicka based. Nerfed shields work as a buffer/panic button now, not a full ongoing protection. Buffer + regen under it is the trick.
Without the necessity to carry the crappy resto staff. Resto staff is for a healer - most of its skills are aimed at supporting others. For this purpose it works fine. However, even Healing Ward and Mutagen are not reliable for self heals.

I don't mind that stamina builds have such a nice heal but it would only be fair if there was a magicka equivalent, without limiting the weapon selection.
IF it was supposed to be comparable with Dark Deal (fair comparison imo), Vigor should have a cast time.

Oh come now Harness Magicka is nerfed, when it's now on more skill bars than it ever has been since it works against all damage types?

Fair point. It is more common because it changed from 'useless' to 'useful'.
But I was referring to the general time nerf of shields, which changed their purpose. Now they are more reactive, rather than a substitute for a larger hp pool. Also, I would be perfectly satisfied if there was a healing morph of Annulment.

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you think it's fair that magicka builds should have identical heals to stamina builds, then I suppose you also think it's fair that stamina builds have shields equivalent with magicka builds right? I mean they're so nerfed it wouldn't change a thing to give stam some shields... right?

Apart from Bone Shield? Honestly, if everything would be balanced around it, I wouldn't mind. Also, I didn't say that shields are useless, just that they have a different purpose.
This however goes against the idea of heavy and med armor having more resistances than light. I believe that each armor type plays a specific role:
Heavy is for maximally lowering the damage taken, I think we can all agree on this.
Medium and light are more dps-friendly armors, but depending whether stamina or magicka is used, allow different play styles. Both should have comparable offensive and some defensive capabilities. Now, medium armor gives more resistance which is passive. Ideally, dodge (Shuffle) should be exclusive for those build types. Stam can also roll and sprint much more. Magicka gives much lower resistances but allows to use very expensive and time limited, reactive shields. No stacking. At this point both med and light types are at the same level. From here, if stamina gets a very decent heal, magicka should too. They could be different, perhaps even stronger for stamina, but still possible for magicka with no resto. Maybe even just modify Purge from Support tree to give a fixed heal.

omfgitsbatman

Vogtard wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vogtard wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Harness Magicka is actually the perfect reason for Vigor to be magicka based. Nerfed shields work as a buffer/panic button now, not a full ongoing protection. Buffer + regen under it is the trick.
Without the necessity to carry the crappy resto staff. Resto staff is for a healer - most of its skills are aimed at supporting others. For this purpose it works fine. However, even Healing Ward and Mutagen are not reliable for self heals.

I don't mind that stamina builds have such a nice heal but it would only be fair if there was a magicka equivalent, without limiting the weapon selection.
IF it was supposed to be comparable with Dark Deal (fair comparison imo), Vigor should have a cast time.

Oh come now Harness Magicka is nerfed, when it's now on more skill bars than it ever has been since it works against all damage types?

Fair point. It is more common because it changed from 'useless' to 'useful'.
But I was referring to the general time nerf of shields, which changed their purpose. Now they are more reactive, rather than a substitute for a larger hp pool. Also, I would be perfectly satisfied if there was a healing morph of Annulment.

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you think it's fair that magicka builds should have identical heals to stamina builds, then I suppose you also think it's fair that stamina builds have shields equivalent with magicka builds right? I mean they're so nerfed it wouldn't change a thing to give stam some shields... right?

Apart from Bone Shield? Honestly, if everything would be balanced around it, I wouldn't mind. Also, I didn't say that shields are useless, just that they have a different purpose.
This however goes against the idea of heavy and med armor having more resistances than light. I believe that each armor type plays a specific role:
Heavy is for maximally lowering the damage taken, I think we can all agree on this.
Medium and light are more dps-friendly armors, but depending whether stamina or magicka is used, allow different play styles. Both should have comparable offensive and some defensive capabilities. Now, medium armor gives more resistance which is passive. Ideally, dodge (Shuffle) should be exclusive for those build types. Stam can also roll and sprint much more. Magicka gives much lower resistances but allows to use very expensive and time limited, reactive shields. No stacking. At this point both med and light types are at the same level. From here, if stamina gets a very decent heal, magicka should too. They could be different, perhaps even stronger for stamina, but still possible for magicka with no resto. Maybe even just modify Purge from Support tree to give a fixed heal.

Magicka classes already have plenty of decent heals avaiable to them, resto staff aside.

Kutsuu

Vogtard wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Vogtard wrote: »

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Why not? Simple.

Harness Magicka.

Harness Magicka is actually the perfect reason for Vigor to be magicka based. Nerfed shields work as a buffer/panic button now, not a full ongoing protection. Buffer + regen under it is the trick.
Without the necessity to carry the crappy resto staff. Resto staff is for a healer - most of its skills are aimed at supporting others. For this purpose it works fine. However, even Healing Ward and Mutagen are not reliable for self heals.

I don't mind that stamina builds have such a nice heal but it would only be fair if there was a magicka equivalent, without limiting the weapon selection.
IF it was supposed to be comparable with Dark Deal (fair comparison imo), Vigor should have a cast time.

Oh come now Harness Magicka is nerfed, when it's now on more skill bars than it ever has been since it works against all damage types?

Fair point. It is more common because it changed from 'useless' to 'useful'.
But I was referring to the general time nerf of shields, which changed their purpose. Now they are more reactive, rather than a substitute for a larger hp pool. Also, I would be perfectly satisfied if there was a healing morph of Annulment.

Kutsuu wrote: »

If you think it's fair that magicka builds should have identical heals to stamina builds, then I suppose you also think it's fair that stamina builds have shields equivalent with magicka builds right? I mean they're so nerfed it wouldn't change a thing to give stam some shields... right?

Apart from Bone Shield? Honestly, if everything would be balanced around it, I wouldn't mind. Also, I didn't say that shields are useless, just that they have a different purpose.
This however goes against the idea of heavy and med armor having more resistances than light. I believe that each armor type plays a specific role:
Heavy is for maximally lowering the damage taken, I think we can all agree on this.
Medium and light are more dps-friendly armors, but depending whether stamina or magicka is used, allow different play styles. Both should have comparable offensive and some defensive capabilities. Now, medium armor gives more resistance which is passive. Ideally, dodge (Shuffle) should be exclusive for those build types. Stam can also roll and sprint much more. Magicka gives much lower resistances but allows to use very expensive and time limited, reactive shields. No stacking. At this point both med and light types are at the same level. From here, if stamina gets a very decent heal, magicka should too. They could be different, perhaps even stronger for stamina, but still possible for magicka with no resto. Maybe even just modify Purge from Support tree to give a fixed heal.

Shields prevent damage and are constantly refillable, you can keep recasting them to replenish your "pool" - every time you recast them you are instantly burst healing your shield pool. Casting a 12k shield is effectively no different from casting a 12k honor the dead. That is not comparable to having passive dodge chance or high resistances - you can't replenish the health pools without heals.

You're calling them reactive, but every good light armor player that I fight keeps them up proactively throughout each fight. I fight sorcs that are harder to kill than most heavy armor builds (aside from trolltanks) because they have 24k worth of uncrittable shields to melt through - it's even worse if they're using Pirate Skeleton and I'm hitting the shields for a ~50% reduction when combined with CPs. I'm not calling for nerfs, just pointing out your bias when you act like shields are bad.

I figured you might mention bone shield. It is utterly pathetic once battle spirit gets a hold of it and it's based on health. Even with a decent 25-30k health pool it's only a 2.5-3k shield. Make it scale off Stamina like Anullment and maybe we'll have something to talk about.

Sheuib

How about we drop the whole 2 resource concept. We can combine them together and call it stamicka.

Deverson92

Best comments!

omfgitsbatman wrote: »

Oh god.... Why doesn't destro ult have a stam morph? Or prox det a stamina one? How about caltrops?

....

Not every skill needs to be both stam or magicka. Generally speaking, magicka classes have pently of heals available to them, why would you need another heal skill?

rteezy

i must be missing something, because as a magdk i dotn have any 12k shiled (a 3rd of that at best) and i have ZERO reliable heals (lol dragonblood....).My only decent heal comes form a dot that i need to wait to expire..So how is this comaprable to stam builds spamming vigor at almsot no cost healing for more the my "op shields" and dragon blood combines x2....at a fraction of the cost.

but hey, i can always get harness magika and watch it go off and be promptly healed by a vigor while i lay dead...

omfgitsbatman

rteezy wrote: »

i must be missing something, because as a magdk i dotn have any 12k shiled (a 3rd of that at best) and i have ZERO reliable heals (lol dragonblood....).My only decent heal comes form a dot that i need to wait to expire..So how is this comaprable to stam builds spamming vigor at almsot no cost healing for more the my "op shields" and dragon blood combines x2....at a fraction of the cost.

but hey, i can always get harness magika and watch it go off and be promptly healed by a vigor while i lay dead...

If you re-cast embers, you get an instant heal.. then there is obsidian shard, and deep breath, both of which heal.. and the crappy morph of flames of oblivon, too dragonblood is crappy, but if you do it with major mending (igneous shields), it becomes MEH. additionally, you do have at least 12k shields with harness, ward and igneous shields. on a side note, you should really try playing a stam-build, see if you still think that vigor is super strong

DocFrost72

" on a side note, you should really try playing a stam-build, see if you still think that vigor is super strong"

This ^

Unless you're chugging specialty pots made for specifically this on a toon keeping up major mending, a good vigor hits for a 3k crit.

Look, magic DKS needs a lot of help. I'm down with giving them some aid. But if you are a magic templar or a magic nightblade complaining about vigor, please... just stop. Those classes THRIVE off of their man attacks healing them while they remain fully offensive. Not to mention, nightblades can also get 8% more healing for using the aforementioned move, and templars can go from rekt to git rekt with a BoL or two.

Waffennacht

They did have a stam based ward, it got nicked because it was WAY TOO OP for a stam build to have shuffle, dodge roll, vigor, and a ward.

Goes to show you stam is already comparable to wards in survivability without having to use a ward. To compete magicka has to use a ward.

And yes the magicka based heals suck now. Back when a 5k+ heal was only achieved from a magicka based move it was fair. But major vitality pots etc make it where Vigor can tick for the equivalent of a magicka heal...

Resto staff isn't even a powerful heal weapon in comparison now.

Gilliamtherogue

Healing built into classes
DK;

Dragon's Blood- Scales off of missing health. In a pretty bad spot around the board aside from high health tank builds, and even then is questionable.

Burning Embers- Scales off of Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals based off of damage dealt. Requires a target, suffers from spam casting.

Inhale- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, AoE heal that grows in power based on targets hit (up to 6).

Flame Lash- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals when striking off balanced targets. Requires a target, has a pseudo ICD due to CC immunity.

Cauterize- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals every 5 seconds after cast. Prioritizes low health targets.

Obsidian Shard- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, requires a target.

Sorcerer;

Twilight Matriarch- Scales off Max Magicka. The closest thing to BoL in this game, but suffers targeting issues from a healer's standpoint. Always will heal the caster though.

Unstable Clannfear- Scales off Max Health. Pretty lack luster, but definitely better than Dragon's Blood.

Dark Exchange- Heals for flat value. Has a cast time and can be bashed. Very potent if able to be casted.

Absorption Field- Scales off highest stat. Can't be spammed since it's an ultimate.

Surge- Heals for a flat value. Amazing for sustained self healing on caster, tank, or dps. Technically scales off Crit chance, and Crit Hit Damage makes it more powerful.

Nightblade;

Reaper's Mark- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with debuff active. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Killer's Blade- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with or within 2s of use. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Refreshing Path- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Must stand within the AoE to be healed, although can leave the area for 2 seconds before losing the healing over time.

Soul Shred & morphs- Scales off highest stat. Requires a target (Siphon will heal anyone in the AoE without needing to hit an enemy). Is an ultimate so it cannot be spammed/accessed directly.

Strife- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, but acts as a heal over time.

Sap Essence- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Does not require a target, but grows in power based on number of enemies hit (up to 6).

Templar;

Puncturing Sweeps- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, grows in power based on enemies hit (AoE cap of 60).

Purifying Light- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, only accessible in a small area after the effect ends.

Radiant Glory- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Heals based on damage dealt, meaning if casted before execute range begins, will be severely hindered.

Rite of Passage- Scales off highest stats. Since an ultimate, cannot be accessed on demand.

Rushed Ceremony- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Extremely potent.

Healing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Has a slow cast time, and can be bashed.

Repentance- Scales off Max Magicka OR Stamina. Requires corpses to be used, thus is not a true heal.

Cleansing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Also grants Major Mending when paired with a passive. Very efficient.

Looking through these we see that there are literally 0 heals in this game on a class basis that scale off Max Stamina that are "true" healing. There are other heals accessible for specific classes (Sorcerer's Surge mainly) that are still potent, but Vigor remains the only accessible healing that scales off their stats directly, and may be accessed directly (no ultimates, unreasonable requirements such as corpses).

Healing is so favored to Magicka builds in this game, giving them Vigor makes absolutely no sense. Pretty much end of thread from that.

Bulljoker

because magicka have enough heals already?

Lokey0024

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Healing built into classes
DK;

Dragon's Blood- Scales off of missing health. In a pretty bad spot around the board aside from high health tank builds, and even then is questionable.

Burning Embers- Scales off of Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals based off of damage dealt. Requires a target, suffers from spam casting.

Inhale- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, AoE heal that grows in power based on targets hit (up to 6).

Flame Lash- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals when striking off balanced targets. Requires a target, has a pseudo ICD due to CC immunity.

Cauterize- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals every 5 seconds after cast. Prioritizes low health targets.

Obsidian Shard- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, requires a target.

Sorcerer;

Twilight Matriarch- Scales off Max Magicka. The closest thing to BoL in this game, but suffers targeting issues from a healer's standpoint. Always will heal the caster though.

Unstable Clannfear- Scales off Max Health. Pretty lack luster, but definitely better than Dragon's Blood.

Dark Exchange- Heals for flat value. Has a cast time and can be bashed. Very potent if able to be casted.

Absorption Field- Scales off highest stat. Can't be spammed since it's an ultimate.

Surge- Heals for a flat value. Amazing for sustained self healing on caster, tank, or dps. Technically scales off Crit chance, and Crit Hit Damage makes it more powerful.

Nightblade;

Reaper's Mark- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with debuff active. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Killer's Blade- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with or within 2s of use. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Refreshing Path- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Must stand within the AoE to be healed, although can leave the area for 2 seconds before losing the healing over time.

Soul Shred & morphs- Scales off highest stat. Requires a target (Siphon will heal anyone in the AoE without needing to hit an enemy). Is an ultimate so it cannot be spammed/accessed directly.

Strife- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, but acts as a heal over time.

Sap Essence- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Does not require a target, but grows in power based on number of enemies hit (up to 6).

Templar;

Puncturing Sweeps- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, grows in power based on enemies hit (AoE cap of 60).

Purifying Light- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, only accessible in a small area after the effect ends.

Radiant Glory- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Heals based on damage dealt, meaning if casted before execute range begins, will be severely hindered.

Rite of Passage- Scales off highest stats. Since an ultimate, cannot be accessed on demand.

Rushed Ceremony- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Extremely potent.

Healing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Has a slow cast time, and can be bashed.

Repentance- Scales off Max Magicka OR Stamina. Requires corpses to be used, thus is not a true heal.

Cleansing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Also grants Major Mending when paired with a passive. Very efficient.

Looking through these we see that there are literally 0 heals in this game on a class basis that scale off Max Stamina that are "true" healing. There are other heals accessible for specific classes (Sorcerer's Surge mainly) that are still potent, but Vigor remains the only accessible healing that scales off their stats directly, and may be accessed directly (no ultimates, unreasonable requirements such as corpses).

Healing is so favored to Magicka builds in this game, giving them Vigor makes absolutely no sense. Pretty much end of thread from that.

This is another case of looks good on paper, sucks in practice for the most part, as far as dk heals are. Try recovering from a gank on a MDK. Dodgeroll? Then what spam DB for 4k healing? Riiiiight. Only thing you can do is cc, if they are in front of you, and dont gapclose because the roots wont stop them.

Could go on but dont think you will get it. Enjoy the free AP till the pendulum swings the other way again.

rteezy

i hoenstly think that vigor

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Healing built into classes
DK;

Dragon's Blood- Scales off of missing health. In a pretty bad spot around the board aside from high health tank builds, and even then is questionable.

Burning Embers- Scales off of Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals based off of damage dealt. Requires a target, suffers from spam casting.

Inhale- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, AoE heal that grows in power based on targets hit (up to 6).

Flame Lash- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals when striking off balanced targets. Requires a target, has a pseudo ICD due to CC immunity.

Cauterize- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals every 5 seconds after cast. Prioritizes low health targets.

Obsidian Shard- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, requires a target.

Sorcerer;

Twilight Matriarch- Scales off Max Magicka. The closest thing to BoL in this game, but suffers targeting issues from a healer's standpoint. Always will heal the caster though.

Unstable Clannfear- Scales off Max Health. Pretty lack luster, but definitely better than Dragon's Blood.

Dark Exchange- Heals for flat value. Has a cast time and can be bashed. Very potent if able to be casted.

Absorption Field- Scales off highest stat. Can't be spammed since it's an ultimate.

Surge- Heals for a flat value. Amazing for sustained self healing on caster, tank, or dps. Technically scales off Crit chance, and Crit Hit Damage makes it more powerful.

Nightblade;

Reaper's Mark- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with debuff active. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Killer's Blade- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with or within 2s of use. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Refreshing Path- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Must stand within the AoE to be healed, although can leave the area for 2 seconds before losing the healing over time.

Soul Shred & morphs- Scales off highest stat. Requires a target (Siphon will heal anyone in the AoE without needing to hit an enemy). Is an ultimate so it cannot be spammed/accessed directly.

Strife- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, but acts as a heal over time.

Sap Essence- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Does not require a target, but grows in power based on number of enemies hit (up to 6).

Templar;

Puncturing Sweeps- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, grows in power based on enemies hit (AoE cap of 60).

Purifying Light- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, only accessible in a small area after the effect ends.

Radiant Glory- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Heals based on damage dealt, meaning if casted before execute range begins, will be severely hindered.

Rite of Passage- Scales off highest stats. Since an ultimate, cannot be accessed on demand.

Rushed Ceremony- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Extremely potent.

Healing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Has a slow cast time, and can be bashed.

Repentance- Scales off Max Magicka OR Stamina. Requires corpses to be used, thus is not a true heal.

Cleansing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Also grants Major Mending when paired with a passive. Very efficient.

Looking through these we see that there are literally 0 heals in this game on a class basis that scale off Max Stamina that are "true" healing. There are other heals accessible for specific classes (Sorcerer's Surge mainly) that are still potent, but Vigor remains the only accessible healing that scales off their stats directly, and may be accessed directly (no ultimates, unreasonable requirements such as corpses).

Healing is so favored to Magicka builds in this game, giving them Vigor makes absolutely no sense. Pretty much end of thread from that.

yet, vigor beats ANY magika heal by far int terms of cost vs effect and raw healing on stam builds..Show me ANY mag heal that can heal for 15 average over 5 secs at a cost of 2k...

Put it this way..if i spam embers..form full mag until im out of mag, i will have healed LESS then if u used vigor twice (which probably, between passives/armor/regen) barely makes a dent on ur stam pool(given that it costed you a whopping 4k stam..)


another example

If i lost 90% of my hp (as in..i have TEN PER CENT HP LEFT)..my dragon blood will heal me for 7k..IF it crits it will STILL be LESS then 1 vigor...and COST TIWCE (almost 4k mag) as much.


QUANTITY is nto the same as quality...SURE there are TONS of mag based heals but what does thta matter when NONE can be compared to vigor?

WHY, cant i have a heal that heals 15k over 5 secs at a cost of 2k mag?

omfgitsbatman

I forgot to add this,

rteezy wrote: »

i hoenstly think that vigor

Gilliamtherogue wrote: »

Healing built into classes
DK;

Dragon's Blood- Scales off of missing health. In a pretty bad spot around the board aside from high health tank builds, and even then is questionable.

Burning Embers- Scales off of Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals based off of damage dealt. Requires a target, suffers from spam casting.

Inhale- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, AoE heal that grows in power based on targets hit (up to 6).

Flame Lash- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals when striking off balanced targets. Requires a target, has a pseudo ICD due to CC immunity.

Cauterize- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, heals every 5 seconds after cast. Prioritizes low health targets.

Obsidian Shard- Scales off Max Magicka & Spell damage, requires a target.

Sorcerer;

Twilight Matriarch- Scales off Max Magicka. The closest thing to BoL in this game, but suffers targeting issues from a healer's standpoint. Always will heal the caster though.

Unstable Clannfear- Scales off Max Health. Pretty lack luster, but definitely better than Dragon's Blood.

Dark Exchange- Heals for flat value. Has a cast time and can be bashed. Very potent if able to be casted.

Absorption Field- Scales off highest stat. Can't be spammed since it's an ultimate.

Surge- Heals for a flat value. Amazing for sustained self healing on caster, tank, or dps. Technically scales off Crit chance, and Crit Hit Damage makes it more powerful.

Nightblade;

Reaper's Mark- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with debuff active. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Killer's Blade- Scales off Max Health. Requires a target + target must be killed with or within 2s of use. Not a true heal since it cannot be used on demand.

Refreshing Path- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Must stand within the AoE to be healed, although can leave the area for 2 seconds before losing the healing over time.

Soul Shred & morphs- Scales off highest stat. Requires a target (Siphon will heal anyone in the AoE without needing to hit an enemy). Is an ultimate so it cannot be spammed/accessed directly.

Strife- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, but acts as a heal over time.

Sap Essence- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Does not require a target, but grows in power based on number of enemies hit (up to 6).

Templar;

Puncturing Sweeps- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, grows in power based on enemies hit (AoE cap of 60).

Purifying Light- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Requires a target, only accessible in a small area after the effect ends.

Radiant Glory- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Heals based on damage dealt, meaning if casted before execute range begins, will be severely hindered.

Rite of Passage- Scales off highest stats. Since an ultimate, cannot be accessed on demand.

Rushed Ceremony- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Extremely potent.

Healing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Has a slow cast time, and can be bashed.

Repentance- Scales off Max Magicka OR Stamina. Requires corpses to be used, thus is not a true heal.

Cleansing Ritual- Scales off Max Magicka and Spell damage. Also grants Major Mending when paired with a passive. Very efficient.

Looking through these we see that there are literally 0 heals in this game on a class basis that scale off Max Stamina that are "true" healing. There are other heals accessible for specific classes (Sorcerer's Surge mainly) that are still potent, but Vigor remains the only accessible healing that scales off their stats directly, and may be accessed directly (no ultimates, unreasonable requirements such as corpses).

Healing is so favored to Magicka builds in this game, giving them Vigor makes absolutely no sense. Pretty much end of thread from that.

yet, vigor beats ANY magika heal by far int terms of cost vs effect and raw healing on stam builds..Show me ANY mag heal that can heal for 15 average over 5 secs at a cost of 2k...

Put it this way..if i spam embers..form full mag until im out of mag, i will have healed LESS then if u used vigor twice (which probably, between passives/armor/regen) barely makes a dent on ur stam pool(given that it costed you a whopping 4k stam..)


another example

If i lost 90% of my hp (as in..i have TEN PER CENT HP LEFT)..my dragon blood will heal me for 7k..IF it crits it will STILL be LESS then 1 vigor...and COST TIWCE (almost 4k mag) as much.


QUANTITY is nto the same as quality...SURE there are TONS of mag based heals but what does thta matter when NONE can be compared to vigor?

WHY, cant i have a heal that heals 15k over 5 secs at a cost of 2k mag?

I stopped reading when you said casting embers until you run out. You can not run out of magicka casting embers

Kutsuu

rteezy wrote: »

WHY, cant i have a heal that heals 15k over 5 secs at a cost of 2k mag?

Could it have anything to do with shields being so strong that also having strong healing would be too much? Remember that stam players only have one health bar to manage and heal. Pressing your hotkey for Harness Magicka is an instant burst heal to an additional health pool that can be used proactively if desired.

Balance does not always mean that two choices must have exactly identical abilities, especially not in a MMO where variety is desired by the players. Magicka has their own list of defensive abilities to compliment a wide array of healing options. Stamina has their own list of defensive abilities to compliment a few strong healing options.

When I'm playing stamina against magicka I have so many fights where my combat metrics reported me doing ZERO damage to my target because they were good at refreshing their shields and outplayed me. When I'm playing Magicka against stamina I have many fights where I did a lot of damage but it was just all healed up and they didn't die because they outplayed me. I am not whining about one or the other being overpowered - I know that in both cases, I could have won if I opened a burst window and made them die before they could recover. Many of you guys are coming out of those fights with "nerf X!" as a result instead of looking inward.

AzuraKin

magicka users have this thing called restro staff healing, very easy to sustain, and stacks with itself.

rteezy

AzuraKin wrote: »

magicka users have this thing called restro staff healing, very easy to sustain, and stacks with itself.

again, show me a resto staff ehal that does 15k over 5 secs at a cost of 2k mag

rteezy

Kutsuu wrote: »

rteezy wrote: »

WHY, cant i have a heal that heals 15k over 5 secs at a cost of 2k mag?

Could it have anything to do with shields being so strong that also having strong healing would be too much? Remember that stam players only have one health bar to manage and heal. Pressing your hotkey for Harness Magicka is an instant burst heal to an additional health pool that can be used proactively if desired.

Balance does not always mean that two choices must have exactly identical abilities, especially not in a MMO where variety is desired by the players. Magicka has their own list of defensive abilities to compliment a wide array of healing options. Stamina has their own list of defensive abilities to compliment a few strong healing options.

When I'm playing stamina against magicka I have so many fights where my combat metrics reported me doing ZERO damage to my target because they were good at refreshing their shields and outplayed me. When I'm playing Magicka against stamina I have many fights where I did a lot of damage but it was just all healed up and they didn't die because they outplayed me. I am not whining about one or the other being overpowered - I know that in both cases, I could have won if I opened a burst window and made them die before they could recover. Many of you guys are coming out of those fights with "nerf X!" as a result instead of looking inward.

here is the difference (and WHY it ISNT outplaying of any sort)

Spamming shields as a sorc is broken..BUT whiel eh spams the shield on THAT second he sint doing anything.

Vigor ont he other hand you sjut have to use it every 5 secs...so u have 4 secs that u can use, effectively, to hit him for 4 times WHILE you heal up.

should we ask for a auto refreshing shield. By all means give me a shield that absorbs 15k over 5 secs, refreshing every sec (up to 15k over 5) at a cost of 2k mag

Waffennacht

Plus vigor is Passive healing! All wards and heals require the cast. With vigor you can keep it up prior to being in execute range, you can cast it and go ham while it's ticking.

It seems we have also forgot about all the stam attacks that return health while attacking! Blood craze, rendering slashes, and the like. If you have vigor ticking, blood craze, rally, and something like surge (i know not the best combos but you know what im getting at) you're looking at 5-6k hps passively - no magicka heal can compare.

I think vigor + wards (in competent functionality) would be too OP, magicka or stam

Ghettokid

Its fine that vigor gets magicka morph, if breath of life gets stamina morph.

Izaki

rteezy wrote: »

AzuraKin wrote: »

magicka users have this thing called restro staff healing, very easy to sustain, and stacks with itself.

again, show me a resto staff ehal that does 15k over 5 secs at a cost of 2k mag

Healing ward. 6 seconds, has a huge damage shield, cost 3k magicka. Better than Vigor IMO.