Mag DK Kag vs Rat

rteezy

tryign out spinners (1h/shield and jewelry) since i wanted to go form ligth armour to heavy and compensate for the loss or penetration

Now, i have ratlegore and kag, all impen..i keep tryign them both but cant decide.Honestly in terms of Stats it ends up being pretty much the same.Less sp on one side..more mag on th eother..bit more health on kag (and mag rec)

A big difference imo is that Ratlegoire does not require you to slot Entropy, so you do have a free ability slot for either the 10% bonus damage form engulfing or the healing+aoe from draw essence.

What do you guys think?

leepalmer95

Personally i feel rattlecage is better.

Elara_Northwind

I have been trying out both rattlecage and kags too, but I decided finally to go kags today, because I found that I ran out of magicka too often with rattlecage. I am still, however, trying different things out on my templar at the moment, as her old setup just isn't working as well anymore

I just realised that you were talking about magicka DK, when for some reason I thought you were a templar Sorry, just ignore me, I'm tired

Brutusmax1mus

Kags, rattle cage is crap

AverageJo3Gam3r

Kags. I'm not a rattlecage fan. If you really want the gear slot, use spell power pots. Flowers are super easy to get for pvpers now.

iseko

Imo kags is better in non cp (every bit of sustain helps ->mag regen...). Rattle CAN be better in cp but only because u dont need to slot entropy or something and can get sustain from cp easy.

Adenoma

@AverageJo3Gam3r is 100% correct. You could get approximately the same damage, free up the skill slot, and run Kag's with a better sustain set like Desert Rose or Seducer and use pots for spell power. Personally, I use pots for spellpower and I'm running 5x Burning Spellweaver (S&B/jewels) on frontbar, 5x seducer on body, 2x grothdarr (Skoria for solo), and then a vMA resto on the back bar (my back bar changes a little for group play because I'll run rapid regen).

For solo I run a transmutation S&B on my back bar for a tiny bit of additional recovery when I'm tanking.

Kutsuu

Rattlecage only has the advantage for a pure solo player IMO - you can throw stronger openers without using a spell power pot or a weak dot, and you have more room for coverage on your bar. By coverage I mean abilities to counter things - like Radiant magelight for stealth openers. "Just use spell power pots" is silly - Immovable, Lingering Health, Detect, tripots, there are lots of pots that a solo player needs to use which aren't purely offensive.

Otherwise, Entropy provides a very swanky 8% increase in health and 2% increase in magicka, and also doubles as an empower. It is also just another dot to proc Skoria. It's hard to go wrong slotting it on your main bar.

WillhelmBlack

Switched from legendary Kags to Epic Rattlecage. Still way more damage and an extra slot, it's a no brainer. Use Rattlecage as your offensive set and use a light armour sustain set, which are far more superior than heavy sustain sets (Lich, Desert Rose etc) plus you get a lot of sustain from 5 Heavy already.

Armitas

You are going to need as much straight and compact damage as you can and imo Rattlecage is too weak for 5 piece when you can go spellpower pot and get crit and spell power. Don't worry about engulfing flames, run shatering rocks and talons. Talon>whip>powerlash, Shattering Rocks>whip>powerlash. That combo removes the 5 second cooldown on powerlash. Cast it on person A and when he breaks it he can set himself and the whole group off balance, Cast it on person B and set person A off balance despite the CC cooldown. All while getting tons of heals. It's a really good way to keep pressure on someone while free healing.

psychotic13

Alchemist? Set is so underated

exeeter702

psychotic13 wrote: »

Alchemist? Set is so underated

Im pretty sure almost everyone fully appreciates the strength of clever alchemist......

Adenoma

@Armitas , I switched to Shattering Rocks and I've never been so happy. I also was playing around with Obsidian Shard, which produces some pretty decent heals.

Armitas

Adenoma wrote: »

@Armitas , I switched to Shattering Rocks and I've never been so happy. I also was playing around with Obsidian Shard, which produces some pretty decent heals.

It's amazing isn't! So much healing without stopping your dps. Obsidian shard heals for a ton too, I eventually had to drop it due to the cost for me in heavy armor and the dodging but it's still really good because it casts so quickly and you can blockcast it with S/B back to full.

Adenoma

So much healing while UPPING your DPS. It's the bomb.

BuggeX

both are ***, both doesnt have sustain on it

iseko

@Armitas thank you! You've changed pvp for me!

Im in non cp campaign. 5seducer. 5suns (S&B main bar), 2 transmutation back bar. Grothdar. 5HA 2LA. Full sturdy.

All jewelry enchants regen. All armor glyphs tristat.

Gdb + igneous shield buffs up and then the shattering rocks combo = soo much heals while dpsing. Plus it has nice range for pesky sorcs trying to run away.

Armitas

Awesome glad I was able to help.

pjwb16_ESO

Rattlecage, Kagrenac is ***

Adenoma

Rattlecage is really only useful to me if I'm intending to not run spell-power pots or entropy. I don't run wings because it's bugged and really lackluster right now, so I've run entropy in that slot.

rteezy

iseko wrote: »

@Armitas thank you! You've changed pvp for me!

Im in non cp campaign. 5seducer. 5suns (S&B main bar), 2 transmutation back bar. Grothdar. 5HA 2LA. Full sturdy.

All jewelry enchants regen. All armor glyphs tristat.

Gdb + igneous shield buffs up and then the shattering rocks combo = soo much heals while dpsing. Plus it has nice range for pesky sorcs trying to run away.

study is bad in pvp

uw ant all inpen

Also, fossilize > shattering rocks

and ignous shield is like...a base skill for magdks, not sure why any magdk wouldnt even have it in the first place

rteezy

Armitas wrote: »

You are going to need as much straight and compact damage as you can and imo Rattlecage is too weak for 5 piece when you can go spellpower pot and get crit and spell power. Don't worry about engulfing flames, run shatering rocks and talons. Talon>whip>powerlash, Shattering Rocks>whip>powerlash. That combo removes the 5 second cooldown on powerlash. Cast it on person A and when he breaks it he can set himself and the whole group off balance, Cast it on person B and set person A off balance despite the CC cooldown. All while getting tons of heals. It's a really good way to keep pressure on someone while free healing.

fossilize >shatering

talons was always there

the chocie remaining is between flames or draw essence

Bandit1215

Armitas wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@Armitas , I switched to Shattering Rocks and I've never been so happy. I also was playing around with Obsidian Shard, which produces some pretty decent heals.

It's amazing isn't! So much healing without stopping your dps. Obsidian shard heals for a ton too, I eventually had to drop it due to the cost for me in heavy armor and the dodging but it's still really good because it casts so quickly and you can blockcast it with S/B back to full.

My issue with using stonefist (or whichever morph you choose), is that it doesn't go through block like petrify does, and it also snares.

rteezy

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@Armitas , I switched to Shattering Rocks and I've never been so happy. I also was playing around with Obsidian Shard, which produces some pretty decent heals.

It's amazing isn't! So much healing without stopping your dps. Obsidian shard heals for a ton too, I eventually had to drop it due to the cost for me in heavy armor and the dodging but it's still really good because it casts so quickly and you can blockcast it with S/B back to full.

My issue with using stonefist (or whichever morph you choose), is that it doesn't go through block like petrify does, and it also snares.

this^

Fossilize will always be better then stonefist or any of ti smorphs because it goes through block and dodge

Armitas

Fossilize and obsidian shard are two different tools for two different jobs. Fossilize is pure cc and obsidian shard is a powerful heal first and foremost with a long ranged cc attached. The base heal on it exceeds even BOR. It all depends on what you are trying to acomplish with them.

The only way I could see fossilize being better than shattering rocks is in a range build. Apart from that we are a melee class with talons for root and powerlash. What would be the advantage of a second root instead of continual powerlash damage and healing? I know some people intend to run people out of stamina but that doesn't happen anymore. You are not running HA or MA out of stamina. Sorcs and NB can deal with it and magplars won't care to roll out of it.

rteezy

Armitas wrote: »

Fossilize and obsidian shard are two different tools two for different jobs. Fossilize is pure cc and obsidian shard is a powerful heal first and foremost with a long ranged cc attached. The base heal on it exceeds even BOR. It all depends on what you are trying to acomplish with them.

The only way I could see fossilize being better than shattering rocks is in a range build. Apart from that we are a melee class with talons for root and powerlash. What would be the advantage of a second root instead of continual powerlash damage and healing? I know some people intend to run people out of stamina but that doesn't happen anymore. You are not running HA or MA out of stamina. Sorcs and NB can deal with it and magplars won't care to roll out of it.

AND with fossilize u can meteor someone and they wotn be able to block it..ever

Armitas

rteezy wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Fossilize and obsidian shard are two different tools two for different jobs. Fossilize is pure cc and obsidian shard is a powerful heal first and foremost with a long ranged cc attached. The base heal on it exceeds even BOR. It all depends on what you are trying to acomplish with them.

The only way I could see fossilize being better than shattering rocks is in a range build. Apart from that we are a melee class with talons for root and powerlash. What would be the advantage of a second root instead of continual powerlash damage and healing? I know some people intend to run people out of stamina but that doesn't happen anymore. You are not running HA or MA out of stamina. Sorcs and NB can deal with it and magplars won't care to roll out of it.

AND with fossilize u can meteor someone and they wotn be able to block it..ever

You can do that with shattering rocks, it goes through block. The only thing it lacks is the root, which you have in talons.

NBrookus

Bandit1215 wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

Adenoma wrote: »

@Armitas , I switched to Shattering Rocks and I've never been so happy. I also was playing around with Obsidian Shard, which produces some pretty decent heals.

It's amazing isn't! So much healing without stopping your dps. Obsidian shard heals for a ton too, I eventually had to drop it due to the cost for me in heavy armor and the dodging but it's still really good because it casts so quickly and you can blockcast it with S/B back to full.

My issue with using stonefist (or whichever morph you choose), is that it doesn't go through block like petrify does, and it also snares.

Fossilize/Stattering Rocks is the superior CC, but it doesn't do you any good when you need any sort of ranged interrupt for you or your team when are being radiant spammed, stopping a rez, etc. Or dealing with a kiting sorc or magblade. In a perfect world I'd run Shattering Rocks, Stone Giant AND Burning Talons but bar space is limited.

I've been running it instead of a gap closer recently and it has a power not on the tooltip: trolls and enrages enemy players.

iseko

rteezy wrote: »

iseko wrote: »

@Armitas thank you! You've changed pvp for me!

Im in non cp campaign. 5seducer. 5suns (S&B main bar), 2 transmutation back bar. Grothdar. 5HA 2LA. Full sturdy.

All jewelry enchants regen. All armor glyphs tristat.

Gdb + igneous shield buffs up and then the shattering rocks combo = soo much heals while dpsing. Plus it has nice range for pesky sorcs trying to run away.

study is bad in pvp

uw ant all inpen

Also, fossilize > shattering rocks

and ignous shield is like...a base skill for magdks, not sure why any magdk wouldnt even have it in the first place

I had full impen before. I prefer full sturdy.

Fossilize is not auto better then shattering rocks. With shattering rocks/lash combi im constantly getting healed a LOT with embers applied and ready for burst heal. It cc's as well (though not through block). It has a longer range which is awesome for kite sorc.

I was running igneous shield before. But it really shines with shattering rocks in the mix. Before I couldn't heal myself enoigh when doing 1v3- 1v4. They would burst me down in 2-3seconds. Now Im solong them quite well and taking down at least one before they kill me. A lot of the time I can win 1v3 in the open. Fossilize is nice in 1v1. Not in 1vX imho. Or rather it would still be a nice skill. But I dont have room to slot it.

Ps: typing on phone. Srry bout spelling.

Armitas

Shattering rocks will go through block so there is no real loss other than the root effect at the end.

FloppyTouch

rteezy wrote: »

iseko wrote: »

@Armitas thank you! You've changed pvp for me!

Im in non cp campaign. 5seducer. 5suns (S&B main bar), 2 transmutation back bar. Grothdar. 5HA 2LA. Full sturdy.

All jewelry enchants regen. All armor glyphs tristat.

Gdb + igneous shield buffs up and then the shattering rocks combo = soo much heals while dpsing. Plus it has nice range for pesky sorcs trying to run away.

study is bad in pvp

uw ant all inpen

Also, fossilize > shattering rocks

and ignous shield is like...a base skill for magdks, not sure why any magdk wouldnt even have it in the first place

On a mdk sturdy is amazing block cast you stay alive a lot longer.

I have to say fossilize is better then shattering rocks but I'll give it a try again it's just to hard to give up a cc that goes through block and can stop a magic enemy out of Stam for a long time