Magicka Sorcerer DW PvP Build - Riddick

psychotic13

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

4 necro 5bsw 2 slimecraw mage mundus outperformed anything a DW built could provide for my personal playstyle.

Really? Can't be in duels right? You're down time on buffs seems pretty big

Why would you duel in anything else but a petbuild on a sorc. People can´t outmaneuver pets in the small dueling area (edit: but why would anyone duel on a sorc (or a magica toon in general).

And why downtime on buffs? BSW is proccing pretty reliably with just staff + crushing shock - way better than scathing mage for example.

I have a whole set of BSW, and I don't run it because it wasn't reliable. At best it has a 2/3 uptime because it's live only 8 out of 12 seconds.

On top of that, it has a 20% proc rate. So you have to spam fire light attacks weaved with force pulse and your good friend ESO RNG always leaves you in a ditch, sometimes as long as half a minute.

I don't get why people rave about that set, I'd rather run Julianos and slimecraw or something. Maybe I just have all the bad luck.

Agree, didn't find this set to be very good, on the sorc anyway, it's not too bad on the DK cause you don't have to think about trying to proc it, you have so many flame dots it just procs when you bar swap anyway.

RinaldoGandolphi

Kutsuu wrote: »

Ooooh you go way back. I was thinking you were going for the white knight pickup. Mystery solved about the origin of your bias! In any case, I don't think you've objectively paid attention to her combative behavior in here. The discussion was pretty reasonable early on, but she was throwing in "no good sorc would..." and "scrubs" etc to insult anyone who didn't share her opinion.

And come on, that video is of a sorc with a gimmicky imperial physique build in imperial city which already makes it unsuited to prove points with, and most of the kills include a destro ultimate bomb rather than sustained damage.

What? Im sorry but if you looked back at some of the old PTS forums you would see Dracane and I got into some very heated arguments over Sorc's, I see what your trying to reach here for, but im sorry that simply isn't it.

I read every thread in this post, I didn't see any combative behavior until folks started piling on her first.

"No good Sorc would" are subjective statements. That statement being some sort of insult is solely at the discretion of those reading it. Why would I be insulted by such a statement? Why would I take that statement as some sort of insult, its doesn't apply to me. That statement only applies to anyone "If they think it does" If you don't believe that statement applies to you, then why get offended about it? That statement would be total fiction to you right? So it simply doesn't exist. So no need to get offended right?

The bolded part is what im talking about, and you just did it again. why? Your are unfairly criticizing her and doing so in a manner to ridicule her in front of others. there is simply no place for that...I have stood up for many others on this forum that were on the receiving end of such ridicule and will continue to do so. Its not right, its not acceptable behavior to act that way towards anyone. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Yes, maybe Dracane could have worded a few things differently as subtle communication such as sarcasm, gesture, joking, etc can sometimes be hard to covery while being typed, but I don't think piling on her in that manner was fair.

Kutsuu

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Ooooh you go way back. I was thinking you were going for the white knight pickup. Mystery solved about the origin of your bias! In any case, I don't think you've objectively paid attention to her combative behavior in here. The discussion was pretty reasonable early on, but she was throwing in "no good sorc would..." and "scrubs" etc to insult anyone who didn't share her opinion.

And come on, that video is of a sorc with a gimmicky imperial physique build in imperial city which already makes it unsuited to prove points with, and most of the kills include a destro ultimate bomb rather than sustained damage.

What? Im sorry but if you looked back at some of the old PTS forums you would see Dracane and I got into some very heated arguments over Sorc's, I see what your trying to reach here for, but im sorry that simply isn't it.

I read every thread in this post, I didn't see any combative behavior until folks started piling on her first.

"No good Sorc would" are subjective statements. That statement being some sort of insult is solely at the discretion of those reading it. Why would I be insulted by such a statement? Why would I take that statement as some sort of insult, its doesn't apply to me. That statement only applies to anyone "If they think it does" If you don't believe that statement applies to you, then why get offended about it? That statement would be total fiction to you right? So it simply doesn't exist. So no need to get offended right?

The bolded part is what im talking about, and you just did it again. why? Your are unfairly criticizing her and doing so in a manner to ridicule her in front of others. there is simply no place for that...I have stood up for many others on this forum that were on the receiving end of such ridicule and will continue to do so. Its not right, its not acceptable behavior to act that way towards anyone. Why is this so difficult to understand?

Yes, maybe Dracane could have worded a few things differently as subtle communication such as sarcasm, gesture, joking, etc can sometimes be hard to covery while being typed, but I don't think piling on her in that manner was fair.

People piled on her because they don't agree with her assertion that DW sorc builds are not viable. She came in here specifically with the purpose of telling people that this guy's build is not viable, and that her build is better because look at this video of me killing people in imperial city with an imperial physique build. Cause and effect... You act like everyone here is speaking without cause.

Seriously if you say ridiculous stuff you will get ridiculed. Grow up.

Izaki

@RinaldoGandolphi Hey man. So if you paid close attention to the posts, you'd see that no one piled on her just because she has a different opinion. First of all, first thing she says is DW isn't viable. Posts a video and some arguments to back her point of view. People, including myself, respond to her comment, there's no piling up on her at all, having a conversation like normal people. Then some talk about being tired of Force Pulse spam, illusions, dual wield being terrible against good players, "don't even compare myself to you", etc. started. Notice, neither me, nor anyone else in this thread has made a misplaced comment (aside from Psycho's one, but they got over it pretty quickly and there was a chunk of civil discussion afterwards), then people get called unworthy, scrubs, terrible players, etc. just because they don't share the same points of view. A normal reaction is to call out the person, which is what happened.

Again if you did read all the posts, you would have seen that the destro skill line is far from being awful compared to other weapons. Not everything revolves around PvP, in this case, the destro skill line is actually pretty damn sweet for all PvE content. No one took credit away from Dracane, everyone knows that she's a good player and yeah sure taking down 10 players is an achievement. But everyone also knows that 1vX is only possible against bad/medium players. So in reality anyone who knows what he's doing in PvP and who knows how to play his class can do it. Proof of that? Plenty of people that no one knows who don't post videos or who don't stream are out there 1vXing all day long. Needless to say, just like stamina builds wiping people with proc sets while being tanky AF, having shields and Streaking around with the Destro ultimate is pretty similar.

She got criticism only when she started criticizing first of all the build posted here, then the person who posted the build, then all the other people on this thread.

Saying anything else is basically paraphrasing what Kutuu already mentioned.

RinaldoGandolphi

psychotic13 wrote: »

Ok so when someone spends the time to create a build thread to share with others, the right thing to do is to say it's not viable, I couldn't wish to have killed the targets she was fighting and post videos of herself, hijack much, shut up.

And then to carry on saying it's not viable and it doesn't work several times, call people scrubs and that no one has the knowledge of the class like she does lol take your tongue out of her ass you idiot. If I was to post on someone's build thread telling them it won't work and start posting videos of myself using imperial physique and using the Destro ult I'd get roasted, and deservingly so.

No, its not right to say that, but its also not right to pile on her the way it was..

There were better diplomatic ways to deal with this whole thing before it snowballed into what it is..

A little bit of kindness goes a long way, even if you think the person is not being kind to you, kindness and compassion can melt hearts as cold as the North Pole.

At the end of the day there are people on both sides of the keyboard, and it makes very little sense to fight, argue, and come to not like each other over something like this. Its close to the holidays, regardless of your beliefs, be kind to one another.

Also I think this is a good build. If played right I could see players doing well open world..Tamerlin and Qaevir both do really well on a dual wield Sorc.

Happy Holidays.

RinaldoGandolphi

Also I'm not here to argue with anyone and like the build

Izaki

Qaevir and Tamerlin are the real sorcs.
Bottom line is, @psychotic13 build is perfectly viable in every situation.

RinaldoGandolphi

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Qaevir and Tamerlin are the real sorcs.
Bottom line is, @psychotic13 build is perfectly viable in every situation.

I agree with that.

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Again if you did read all the posts, you would have seen that the destro skill line is far from being awful compared to other weapons. Not everything revolves around PvP, in this case, the destro skill line is actually pretty damn sweet for all PvE content.

Whaaaat?

Last time i checked every class and their mother was avoiding destro staff skills like the devil is with holy water wherever they could.

The skilline has two skill absolutely nobody uses in pve (destro touch and impuls) and one that gets used by healers to buff magica regen (other wise it provides a redundant debuff).
That leaves us with force pulse which is used on ranged builds - because it´s the only skill available for one of the two ranged classes (with NB not being really competetive at all atm).
And we have woe which is a solid skill.

I mean it´s not thaaat bad - but is there a reason why stamina weapon passives affect non weaponline skills and destro and resto staff passives only work on their 6 skills?
That alone would go a long way.

I know stam weapons aren´t fine either but if you just compare what´s offered in total - every stam weapon still makes a better deal than a destro staff (in my opinion).

Waffennacht

@Derra what to your what? Destro is used for Blockade, and is used to proc ilambris.

I mean every magicka dps runs blockade... at least all those vMA builds do

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Derra what to your what? Destro is used for Blockade, and is used to proc ilambris.

I mean every magicka dps runs blockade... at least all those vMA builds do

So every mag build running one skill (out of five) from they only weapon line scaling with their stats (which also happens to be the skill buffed by vmsa weapons) makes for a fine weapon line?

Are you serious?

I mean it´s not that they have any alternative. Man to be honest i don´t know how to take your post seriously. It´s like you did not even read what i wrote and just come up with "lol woe".
Yeah thanks for taking your time.

But by going your way: A good weaponline for stamina has atleast two skills used and also buffs all nonweaponline skills with some it´s passives. Compared to that destro is bad.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Derra what to your what? Destro is used for Blockade, and is used to proc ilambris.

I mean every magicka dps runs blockade... at least all those vMA builds do

So every mag build running one skill (out of five) from they only weapon line scaling with their stats (which also happens to be the skill buffed by vmsa weapons) makes for a fine weapon line?

Are you serious?

I mean it´s not that they have any alternative. Man to be honest i don´t know how to take your post seriously. It´s like you did not even read what i wrote and just come up with "lol woe".
Yeah thanks for taking your time.

But by going your way: A good weaponline for stamina has atleast two skills used and also buffs all nonweaponline skills with some it´s passives. Compared to that destro is bad.

Force pulse is the hardest hitting ranged spammable skill. As it gets buffed by Engulfing Flames. It also has 3 hits which procs Ilambris, Grothdarr, Scathing Mage etc. It also has a 3 way chance to crit. Magblades also use it. Ranged DPS is most of the team in a trial group, usually 2-3 Sorcs and 1-2. NBs. You cant go into MoL with only close ranged DPS. And Sorcs are perfectly capable of pulling the same DPS as DKs anyway.

Wall of Éléments is one of the strongest ground placed AoE DoTs in the game along with Liquid Lightning and Endless Hail.

Without Elemental Drain magicka DPS is basically impossible.

If you're not using Fiery Rage as anything other than DK, well... You're doing it wrong. Its the strongest ultimate in the game in terms of damage done, along with the standard of might and rend. Much stronger than Shooting Star in single target or AoE.

Pulsar is also an important skill for clearing trash quicked. 10% max health of all mobs is 10% less time spent. Its a game changer.

That's 4 mandatory skills in any trial. 5 mandatory for a good score. Out of 6. There are some good and some bad passives. Tri focus is great. The rest need improvement. So don't tell me that the destro skill line sucks. Active skills are perfectly fine, the passives suck. But destro is far from bad and no one not even their mother avoid the destruction staff in PvE. @Derra

Derra

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Derra what to your what? Destro is used for Blockade, and is used to proc ilambris.

I mean every magicka dps runs blockade... at least all those vMA builds do

So every mag build running one skill (out of five) from they only weapon line scaling with their stats (which also happens to be the skill buffed by vmsa weapons) makes for a fine weapon line?

Are you serious?

I mean it´s not that they have any alternative. Man to be honest i don´t know how to take your post seriously. It´s like you did not even read what i wrote and just come up with "lol woe".
Yeah thanks for taking your time.

But by going your way: A good weaponline for stamina has atleast two skills used and also buffs all nonweaponline skills with some it´s passives. Compared to that destro is bad.

Force pulse is the hardest hitting ranged spammable skill. As it gets buffed by Engulfing Flames. It also has 3 hits which procs Ilambris, Grothdarr, Scathing Mage etc. It also has a 3 way chance to crit. Magblades also use it. Ranged DPS is most of the team in a trial group, usually 2-3 Sorcs and 1-2. NBs. You cant go into MoL with only close ranged DPS. And Sorcs are perfectly capable of pulling the same DPS as DKs anyway.

Wall of Éléments is one of the strongest ground placed AoE DoTs in the game along with Liquid Lightning and Endless Hail.

Without Elemental Drain magicka DPS is basically impossible.

If you're not using Fiery Rage as anything other than DK, well... You're doing it wrong. Its the strongest ultimate in the game in terms of damage done, along with the standard of might and rend. Much stronger than Shooting Star in single target or AoE.

Pulsar is also an important skill for clearing trash quicked. 10% max health of all mobs is 10% less time spent. Its a game changer.

That's 4 mandatory skills in any trial. 5 mandatory for a good score. Out of 6. There are some good and some bad passives. Tri focus is great. The rest need improvement. So don't tell me that the destro skill line sucks.

You know what. I won´t even bother to explain to you why you´re wrong because i think you´re just arguing for the sake of arguing.
If you really don´t know it better whisp me ingame and i´ll explain it to you.
Eventually you´ll get to replace that almost drom athra destroyer in the process

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Derra what to your what? Destro is used for Blockade, and is used to proc ilambris.

I mean every magicka dps runs blockade... at least all those vMA builds do

So every mag build running one skill (out of five) from they only weapon line scaling with their stats (which also happens to be the skill buffed by vmsa weapons) makes for a fine weapon line?

Are you serious?

I mean it´s not that they have any alternative. Man to be honest i don´t know how to take your post seriously. It´s like you did not even read what i wrote and just come up with "lol woe".
Yeah thanks for taking your time.

But by going your way: A good weaponline for stamina has atleast two skills used and also buffs all nonweaponline skills with some it´s passives. Compared to that destro is bad.

Force pulse is the hardest hitting ranged spammable skill. As it gets buffed by Engulfing Flames. It also has 3 hits which procs Ilambris, Grothdarr, Scathing Mage etc. It also has a 3 way chance to crit. Magblades also use it. Ranged DPS is most of the team in a trial group, usually 2-3 Sorcs and 1-2. NBs. You cant go into MoL with only close ranged DPS. And Sorcs are perfectly capable of pulling the same DPS as DKs anyway.

Wall of Éléments is one of the strongest ground placed AoE DoTs in the game along with Liquid Lightning and Endless Hail.

Without Elemental Drain magicka DPS is basically impossible.

If you're not using Fiery Rage as anything other than DK, well... You're doing it wrong. Its the strongest ultimate in the game in terms of damage done, along with the standard of might and rend. Much stronger than Shooting Star in single target or AoE.

Pulsar is also an important skill for clearing trash quicked. 10% max health of all mobs is 10% less time spent. Its a game changer.

That's 4 mandatory skills in any trial. 5 mandatory for a good score. Out of 6. There are some good and some bad passives. Tri focus is great. The rest need improvement. So don't tell me that the destro skill line sucks.

You know what. I won´t even bother to explain to you why you´re wrong because i think you´re just arguing for the sake of arguing.
If you really don´t know it better whisp me ingame and i´ll explain it to you.
Eventually you´ll get to replace that almost drom athra destroyer in the process

Please do tell me how everyone avoids destro, I'd like to know. I'm not arguing for the sake of arguing, I'm replying to what you said about the destro skill line!
So I'm just searching where I'm wrong:
There's just no way Elemental Blockade isn't one of the strongest DPS skills, because well being at the top end of pretty much every parse out there says enough I think.
Force Pulse though? For HM MoL you'd use Funnel Health on a magblade I'd imagine, but Force Pulse is still higher numbers wise. Never seen anyone say that without Elemental Drain they are fine on sustain (unless magblade obviously), not even those guys in Hodor or Aquila or whoever is top for PC EU nowadays.
Elemental rage is well, Elemental rage.
Impulse not useful? You're exaggerating, having 1 person running it, makes such a huge difference in speed its insane.

And I'm fine with taking some time to get it, shouldn't take longer than the holidays though, thanks

Derra

Ele drain: One player needs to run it in a raid.
Pulsar: One player needs to run it in a raid.
Force Pulse: Mandatory on sorc and that´s about what it has going for it (i don´t want to get into the NB debate - i don´t think nb is really competetive atm because of how one tam sets affected magica dps).
destro touch: lol.

As i said WOE is a mandatory skill for every magica dps. I don´t get why everyone has to keep mentioning it.

Elemental Rage: It´s awesome for trash. Sorc should always use the lightning version. Meteor will still outperform it on molHM except for assassin spawns + hulk.

Izaki

Derra wrote: »

Ele drain: One player needs to run it in a raid.
Pulsar: One player needs to run it in a raid.
Force Pulse: Mandatory on sorc and that´s about what it has going for it (i don´t want to get into the NB debate - i don´t think nb is really competetive atm because of how one tam sets affected magica dps).
destro touch: lol.

As i said WOE is a mandatory skill for every magica dps. I don´t get why everyone has to keep mentioning it.

Elemental Rage: It´s awesome for trash. Sorc should always use the lightning version. Meteor will still outperform it on molHM except for assassin spawns + hulk.

Yeah so... 5 out of 6 skills are perfectly good... I still don't see where I'm wrong here.

One skill for supporting the group, another skill for making the group go faster, one single target (AoE component?..) spammable skill, mental ultimate for AoE, monster ground placed AoE DoT...

And in HM MoL don't you always you your ultimates when there are adds around, aside from execute? So Elemental Rage is better than Meteor, at least on paper it is. Also why lightning when Engulfing Flames is up (aka 100% of the time), Rage deals 10% more damage which adds up to pretty much the same thing as the lightning. Also to use the lightning version, you'd have to use it on the front bar = 2% less magicka = overall loss of DPS.

I don't think a single stamina weapon tree has any skills that benefit the whole group.

Dual Wield has 1 single target DoT, 1 single target spammable, 1 AoE monster, 1 damage reduction and well something absolutely useless.

Bow has 1 single target monster DoT, 1 monster ground placed AoE DoT, rest is kinda garbage for PvE.

So in my opinion, destro active skills are fine (buff Touch plzkthx). Its the passives that suck if anything...

Derra

Two more dmg ticks are more (way more) dmg than fiery rage on a sorcerer (that is not dunmer).
With only one add meteor outperforms destro ult because both targets reliably get hit by the ground aoe.
Destro ult only gets better when there are atleast two adds for the whole duration - which ideally happens very rarely and ult should not be kept for this occasion.

The point i´m trying to make is: Classes that do have alternatives to destruction staff skills (which are templar and DK) won´t use destruction staff skills apart from using wall of elements.

Just because some of the skills are without alternative it does not make them good skills.
The problem is destro staff having no benchmark because it´s without any alternative. So as a result you have to compare it to what other weapon lines theoretically do for the player - and in that regard destruction staff is absolutely horrible.

The passives are utter garbage compared to what bow/DW (and 2h for pvp) offer.

psychotic13

To be honest Destro Reach is a really good skill, with the ice staff especially.

And some of the passives are good to, for specific builds though like a NB heavy attack ganker, the quicker charge time, and bigger damage from flame staves. There's one that ignores 10% of the enemy's resistance iirc? I don't see that being bad at all and then you get Magicka when you kill something with a destro ability

Waffennacht

@Derra first i was speaking purely by PvE and more or less addressing, "the run away" part.

Personally I feel each staff should get it's own weapon line, but that's just imo.

Just saying in PvE it's used A lot, could it be better? Of course but that's true of anything

Derra

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Derra first i was speaking purely by PvE and more or less addressing, "the run away" part.

Personally I feel each staff should get it's own weapon line, but that's just imo.

Just saying in PvE it's used A lot, could it be better? Of course but that's true of anything

I just think it does not live up to any of the stamina weaponlines when looking at the whole package provided.

Waffennacht

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Derra first i was speaking purely by PvE and more or less addressing, "the run away" part.

Personally I feel each staff should get it's own weapon line, but that's just imo.

Just saying in PvE it's used A lot, could it be better? Of course but that's true of anything

I just think it does not live up to any of the stamina weaponlines when looking at the whole package provided.

Not arguing that.
Just saying it's a staple for PvE

I chalk it up to the lack of diversity amongst magicka in general, we get two non class based attacks? Both of which do meager damage?

But that's an OLD complaint of mine (see fengrush and my stam sorc vs mag sorc argument)

Minalan

psychotic13 wrote: »

Minalan wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

4 necro 5bsw 2 slimecraw mage mundus outperformed anything a DW built could provide for my personal playstyle.

Really? Can't be in duels right? You're down time on buffs seems pretty big

Why would you duel in anything else but a petbuild on a sorc. People can´t outmaneuver pets in the small dueling area (edit: but why would anyone duel on a sorc (or a magica toon in general).

And why downtime on buffs? BSW is proccing pretty reliably with just staff + crushing shock - way better than scathing mage for example.

I have a whole set of BSW, and I don't run it because it wasn't reliable. At best it has a 2/3 uptime because it's live only 8 out of 12 seconds.

On top of that, it has a 20% proc rate. So you have to spam fire light attacks weaved with force pulse and your good friend ESO RNG always leaves you in a ditch, sometimes as long as half a minute.

I don't get why people rave about that set, I'd rather run Julianos and slimecraw or something. Maybe I just have all the bad luck.

Agree, didn't find this set to be very good, on the sorc anyway, it's not too bad on the DK cause you don't have to think about trying to proc it, you have so many flame dots it just procs when you bar swap anyway.

Derra wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

@Derra first i was speaking purely by PvE and more or less addressing, "the run away" part.

Personally I feel each staff should get it's own weapon line, but that's just imo.

Just saying in PvE it's used A lot, could it be better? Of course but that's true of anything

I just think it does not live up to any of the stamina weaponlines when looking at the whole package provided.

This I most certainly agree with. Needs cost reduction badly.

psychotic13 wrote: »

To be honest Destro Reach is a really good skill, with the ice staff especially.

And some of the passives are good to, for specific builds though like a NB heavy attack ganker, the quicker charge time, and bigger damage from flame staves. There's one that ignores 10% of the enemy's resistance iirc? I don't see that being bad at all and then you get Magicka when you kill something with a destro ability

Reach is bad. The cost is ridiculous on it, and it's the quickest way to end up without any resources. The dots just get purged, leaving you with a mediocre hit that's worse than force pulse.

Waffennacht

@Minalan unless you build around it perma roots plus IG hits really hard

psychotic13

You don't use reach for the damage but the stun/root/knock back imo. I found when using the ice staff it was strong as hell against Magicka builds, stamina not so strong cause they can just roll dodge forever

Lord-Otto

psychotic13 wrote: »

You don't use reach for the damage but the stun/root/knock back imo. I found when using the ice staff it was strong as hell against Magicka builds, stamina not so strong cause they can just roll dodge forever

There was a short period when many magblades in Cyrodiil ran ice staff and touch+blockade. Indeed annoying for mag builds, utterly pointless against stamina. I think you don't see them as often anymore because stamina dominance and Elusive Mist.

Destructive Touch, especially Clench, was a great skill in 1.6, when it would knock back and STUN targets. Master Staves were a thing, too.
Then ZOS came along and "balanced" it by splitting its effects across the different elements. Note how Wrecking Blow was still allowed to dps, knockback, stun and empower all at once.
Trobeled!

If you have a flex spot open, Reach and Clench can still have specialized purposes, but it's so far from the original strength and IMO, should be buffed back up.

Biro123

psychotic13 wrote: »

Biro123 wrote: »

IzakiBrotheSs wrote: »

I'm actually okay with my ultimate gain personally... As long as you weave light resto attacks while shielding up, you should be fine on ultimate gain.

Ah.. hm, maybe I should try that - would mean a big change to the way I play though. I started sorc after the shield duration nerf - so I've always ran with having one on the front bar - and another in the same slot in the back bar and tend to stay on the front bar, regularly refreshing hardened only - and only switch to the back bar when under pressure and I need to stack (using bar swap ani cancelling). I tend to re-cast hardened a lot - probably too often - but it does proc infernal, so its still kind of offensive. My back bar is currently more for utility so if I'm attacking from there, I'm usually not doing much else.

I shield the same way, but I have curse on the back bar so I throw in a light attack every few seconds when I apply this

I know the thread has moved on a bit now - but I've had a good go at trying this now (took me a good while to get used to it as it meant re-arranging a LOT of skills.. along with dropping power-surge from my back bar and slotting degeneration on the front... So most fights start on the back bar with shield, curse, then swap to front.. degeneration.. then it all depends on whether frags has procced... That's one proc chance so far. It just seemed too random for me. So I put frags on my back bar too - so that initial shield + curse also have a chance of proccing frags.. so when it gets to casting degeneration, we've had 3 chances at getting frags to proc. Its just so much more consistent. I know it means losing a precious slot - but I find it just so much more reliable.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Lord-Otto

Yup. What immediately springs to my mind is how much weaker your frag must be on the back bar. At this point, a destro build would already be better.

Waffennacht

I

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup. What immediately springs to my mind is how much weaker your frag must be on the back bar. At this point, a destro build would already be better.

He doesn't cast it from back bar, just slots it on both bars for maximum proc chance. I've done it in the past to see how it goes. It was alright.

Lord-Otto

Waffennacht wrote: »

I

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup. What immediately springs to my mind is how much weaker your frag must be on the back bar. At this point, a destro build would already be better.

He doesn't cast it from back bar, just slots it on both bars for maximum proc chance. I've done it in the past to see how it goes. It was alright.

Gotcha!

Minalan

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

I

Lord-Otto wrote: »

Yup. What immediately springs to my mind is how much weaker your frag must be on the back bar. At this point, a destro build would already be better.

He doesn't cast it from back bar, just slots it on both bars for maximum proc chance. I've done it in the past to see how it goes. It was alright.

Gotcha!

It's actually pretty clever. It eats up the extra slot that you already gain back by not using force pulse. So all of your back bar activity (streak, healing ward, shields, curse, whatever) will proc a frag you can then empower on the main bar.